Predibus

Duelist
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About Predibus

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    Knight of the Abyss
  1. you need planning, you have few win conditions you donthave the game swingng cards goat has,you dont try to get a Sorcerer protct it and ominate, at least not in the first 10/15 turns usually. you literaly do nothig wit this deck, if i'm not forced i never set monsters or even use upstarts, youmight think im trying to get fast huge plusses and get some sort of solemn setup, all im actually doing is turnig every game into what your best goat games are, this thing is all about exploiting, you dont win games bt you defeat ur opponent you really cant win games before you force opponents into making multiple very small suboptimal pays.  i'm not trying to sack good MoFs ifthats what you think cause u☻start and all the draw power/digging, what this is meant To do is foce opponents into playing stuf and taking advantage o it cause of better card quality in the gamestates you build.     that build is surely not perfect and theres about 7/8 changeable cards -surely not serpent or mst- , i posted a build which is streamlining the concept im trying to explain, which is the same thing perovic did,the reason im posting here is cause i think this is a better approach to the stratgy. its not even about that card difference but the different view of how an ideal game should go that these cards reflect.   i see why you all look at this as a 'win more' deck but it is really the opposite, it's plain grinding.   again i have no problem playing games causei think we're talkin about different things.
  2.     talkin about standard goats your oints have sense, i agree that solemn isnt ayable in there. the deck we are talking about is much more different than you might think tough, life here doesnt matter as a game winning strategy, with goats having life advntange gives your cards more value, here there is no difference, you dont even have to be that much more careful with fewer life oints cause their threat cards are the same. 
  3.     talkin about standard goats your oints have sense, i agree that solemn isnt ayable in there. the deck we are talking about is much more different than you might think tough, life here doesnt matter as a game winning strategy, with goats having life advntange gives your cards more value, here there is no difference, you dont even have to be that much more careful with fewer life oints cause their threat cards are the same. 
  4.   this kind of slow rolling threatens multiple +1s every turn which lead to more +1s or outs to your stuff or both, your win condition is setting up this kind of play, then it isnt slowly gain advantage cause goat cant keep up the pace with the kind of outs you have to their plays.    The problem with trying to set up multiple +1s with using cards like Dustshoot and Solemn is your opponent eventually will do his +1s and cancel out your. IF you don't capitalize with those cards, your opponent can turn around the game. My point is, the slower your deck is, the worst those cards become. It wasn't until a fast pace metagame when we started to see these cards played. They are great cards, but the metagame and your deck needs to use them correctly to truly be great.   Also it seems like your basing your deck on playing the traditional scapegoat metamorphosis deck. Against an aggressive deck, your deck i don't believe is as good because they are attack with the monster you pwwb not setting it. You don't play sakuretsu so if you want deko to live you have to pwwb or book occasionally. Your deck might be decent against the monarch match up because of solemn and pwwb.     Dustshoot and Solemn are quite the opposite tbh, Solemn is useful once you already know you can define a winning strategy and might be 1 influent card down, while Dustshoot is trying to make that process faster, they're both somewhat meaningful at trying to play out of sacks tough. also the longer the game goes the better Solemn is cause what you are trying to do every game is polarizing the amounts of outs your opponent has to the meaningful plays you do until they just cant come back.   Also 'fast' and 'slow' are so overused but there isn't such a linear thing in goat games, there are so many different ways to be fast or slow cause games are approached on soo many different angles which aren't just card advantage/lp  this deck or example is much faster than most decks without Reasoning/Monster Gate/Last Will at doing what it does, but it doesn't mean you want to win games fast.  
  5.   Clearly you've never played/understood standard goat properly.     I mean i might seem some kind of idiot cause i post on dgz and nobody here knows me but i actually know what im talkin about and have no problem proving it we can play goat games, discuss theory and whatever you want, i think i have a ver deep understanting of the format btw.    I'm, not here to brag/troll, i just think i'm into something and wanted to share it.  
  6.   this kind of slow rolling threatens multiple +1s every turn which lead to more +1s or outs to your stuff or both, your win condition is setting up this kind of play, then it isnt slowly gain advantage cause goat cant keep up the pace with the kind of outs you have to their plays. 
  7.   No offense, but I just have to say that I've had three Goat decks bought and built IRL for over a year: my regular Goat deck, a beastdown variant, and this deck. I honestly don't know who used it first but I'm sure if you only started using it a couple months ago then it wasn't you. Either way, let's talk about the differences. From my build, you go: - Sorc - Tribe - Card D - Call - PWWB - Ring + Jar + MST + Saku + 3 Solemn   I think a better way of looking at it is to say you run Jar where I run Card D, Saku where I run Ring, MST where I run Call, and 3 Solemn over Tribe, Sorc, and PWWB.    Now, I like Jar. In fact, I love Jar. Honestly, I don't know many people who love Jar more than me. That said, Jar was an obvious inclusion in the deck (NA, dead draws), and was there in my first draft. But then I started drawing Thunder Dragons with Jar, or live Sorcerers with Jar, or I was otherwise building up advantage in spite of the ih Jar I never wanted to use, and just felt like I never really needed to reset the game like I do with regular Goats. The only time I liked Jar was when I drew dead hands early on, but regular Goats start up so slowly that I usually have time to get something going without needing the Jar or having to risk drawing it in a sensitive mid-game. In my view it's an unnecessary addition to the deck, and it's worth it to look at potential replacements. I guess that's where Card Destruction comes in. It can reset your starting hand faster than Jar because you don't have to set it, but it can also build advantage in the mid-late game when you already have TD or NA. It also works better with TD and NA than Jar does. It also gives you a funny win condition with a late-game Faith. Of course, Card Destruction isn't a perfect card, but it can be just as much of a blowout as Jar except it gives more, better purpose to TD and NA and that's reason enough to consider it.   Ring is better than Saku, no question.   MST can be better than Call, but if you have dead Sorcerers then neither are particularly good. If you have live Sorcerers in the moment then MST is better, and if you have live Sorcerers in the grave then Call is probably better. Obviously, Call could be activated after Sorcerer runs into a trap so it could probably go either way.   And Solemn is reactionary. You have to have it down first, one will usually pay to stop Heavy (instead of chaining, like PWWB/Ring), and you'll oftentimes overpay for things you wouldn't have to pay for if you ran other cards. That's important because BLS and Ring exist, and life points matter. I repeat: life points matter. Now, maybe TIV isn't the best card to use. In fact, I think a strong argument can be made for Exiled to fill that spot. Maybe my PWWB isn't necessarily better either (although I'd 100% prefer PWWB if I had TD/NA/Sinister). Maybe Sorcerer too, but I'm pretty sure if my Sorcerer is dead then my Solemn won't be much useful either. Either way, at least those cards can apply pressure and get damage in. In other words, they can be reactive and proactive. Additionally, Solemn'ing a lone f/d Mirror Force is infinitely worse than just using Dust Tornado. It's way worse to negate an AP summon than it is to just Saku it too. But obviously Solemn is the most versatile card. "It can be used against Mirror and AP!" you might say. Well, it does a pretty shitty job against both and that's my point. And, for me, I'd rather just use cards that do one job well than use cards that do a bunch of jobs really bad.   Now, it seems like that's where we disagree, because our two builds aren't so different that yours somehow solves all the problems I outlined. In most cases, both decks will function just like the other, and I think it could really go either way based on the remaining slots.   That said, I really, really don't think Solemn is warranted here. I'm going to try to use an example to show this, but it's a little out there. Forgive me if it sounds weird, but I'd like to take the concept to an extreme and ask you to pick between two cards:   Card 1 - Quickplay Spell "Pay 1500 life points. Destroy one card on the field."   Card 2 - Effect Monster LV4 - DARK - Spellcaster 1600/1000 "When this card is normal summoned, destroy one monster on the field."   Now, I don't know if you can see the parallels I'm drawing here, or whether you'll find my point to be valid, but in this case I'd say Card 1 is more like Solemn whereas Card 2 is more like TIV/Sorc/Saku/Dust, and I much prefer Card 2 to Card 1. If I could only run 1 of either of these cards, I'd probably run Card 2 for the same reason I run Breaker. It may not be as versatile as Card 1 (like Solemn), but it's useful enough to warrant using (like Saku/Dust), and besides, it's got serious floater potential (like TIV/Sorc).   Anyway, enough about Solemn. We may only be able to agree to disagree there. Back to the deck.   You said you have an advantage vs. non Goat decks. Seems to me you'd struggle vs. Beatdown because you lack traps, ways to get through their traps, and you're forced to overpay for Solemn so a timely Gorilla is at least 2x the threat to your LP that it otherwise would be.   You said you have an advantage vs. lots of flips. You take a standard Goat deck and subtract 3 Meta, and replace monsters like Exarion that can be normal summoned in ATK mode to stop flips with monsters like Dekoichi that can only be set vs opposing flips, and that gives you an advantage? Because what, Solemn? Surely you're not trying to Solemn my flip, right? You're just trying to Solemn Tsuku or something, right? Because if not, I don't see where the advantage comes into play. And if so, well, boom, that's a really good example of overpaying for something because half your life is not worth avoiding a -1.   I concede the point about Duo.   And I totally agree on the point of it not being a Turbo deck. There's definitely an early-, mid-, and late-game with this deck.I think, at least the idea anyway, is that the deck is just supposed to run better, more powerful cards that locks your opponent out of comeback opportunities in the mid-late game. I.e. they Meta your f/d, you Sorc their TER, and now they don't have an answer to Sorcerer, etc. And in the meantime you try to slow them down with cards like PWWB, maybe get a chip shot with Dekoichi, at least insofar as you can open up a game shot with Sorc/BLS.    Nevertheless, I maintain the deck is a 'win more' deck that's only slightly worse than standard Goats.     theres also2nd Saku instead of Burial sry.   btw im not saying i have super differnt deck made up, but i think we have different ideas on how to win games cause really solemn is often the win condition i look for, even just to do on a noc on deko can easily turn into a game won.    i mean yea in any potential theoric scenario you can make, activating Solemn is not that good cause theres always better ways than paying half your life. the way this deck plays is create must-answer situations, anything you do with monsters  is in a certain way a must answer play with this deck, its so much harder to win with this kind of strategy without Solemn, half your life doesnt really matter once you get a +2 in card advantage deck.   i would like to play some games with you cause i think we look at this deck in a different way.   the Exiled Force thing look very good tough lol
  8. ye i think im the guy who started this thing being played cuz ive been receiving many messages about it in the last months. :D   i do agree on some problems you mentioned but this is the reason for all the differences between my build and the one you posted which is like 1 card off what i started with when playing this. i also think i have a better matchu♀ than goat against most non-goat decks, even burn to some extent. Card Destructions is a win more card, as to get advantage off it you need to have some combination of Assailant/Thunder Dragon/Sinister and really your winning most games you do get that, it is never good if your not getting it in combo, and even if making them discard strong cards you know they're holding is good this is never going to win you a game early cause you need very good setup to win a game early,and once you get to late game you should win.   Tribe is the opposite of hat you are trying to accomplish with this deck, again it is okay if you have good discard material, you are not ever trying to pressure your opponent lp until you know they cant come back, this cards gives reward to an opponent for playing aggressive, is weak to Book/Tsuku which is not where you wanna be and it forces at least a 2 for 2, you want to play games with many cards until you are seting up a win, so this isnt a good answer to stuff.   Coth/Burial are bad on their own, terrible early game draws and you should never need them.   you know why 2 pwwb is better.    Ring is something you play as removal, and there is so much good removal u have here. you are never trying to win because of lp you are nver seeking advantage on lp, you win once they cant come back, resolving a Ring means you are going to have to ♀lay around their ring earlier, which is bad also.  I don't think this deck is bad against flip effect decks either, these decks always have alot of outs to Ter but a harder time against Solemn, NIght Assailant, pwwb. this thing is a faster and more effective flip deck with better answers to a fli♀ deck..   3 Sorcerer isnt realy needed, you have many tools against aggressive stuff and you don't need win more conditions on a body than these.   also not only Graceful here is much better, but their Duo is likely to be shitty outide of turn0.     I see alot of controversy on Solem but really here it is much ifferent than in a goat deck, once you cut all the stuff which leaves you vulnerable to aggressive strategies such as Tribe, Burial, Ring, Call. this deck wins because of good solemn judgment planning really, you shouldnt look at it in a different light than a faster Mask of Darkness deck, you win cause you grind and lock your opponent, you are just less fragile and has better card advantage built in.   the mistake everyone is making is looking at this like some kind of turbo shit, while it actually it is built to win very long games, you pres for card advantage and board control since early game but this is not trying to sack massive advantage with some comboes, Thunder Dragon wins games cause you have a very solid deck and very low dead draw potential outside of it, in the long run you're going to get much advntage out of that turning into a ♀og which fuels grave and is playable as 3of. I have TD, SOlemn and Sorcerers which might be dead early, but thats it, and all these are easily turned live, once you resolve a Thunder Dragon you are prety much free of dead cards in the whole deck..  But i have 3 Book and 2 Upstart wchich give me less unplayable MoF/im not forced to do bad Meta plays. My Books are live and extremely strong at any stage of game, while goat deck can draw dead Book easier. Same goes for parshat, call ring, burial, tribe, tsuku, goat, meta...
  9. This actually seems pretty clunky imo. Crossout strike me as a savage beating for your deck, you have 12 playable normals/sets, so losing as much as a quarter of them is pretty devastating. I don't really like Solemn here, since you don't have a very active or aggressive board presence outside of your Chaos dudes themselves. You either "overpay" on solemning basic board-parity cards, or your solemns could get overtaxed trying to defend your 1 big dude from multiple removal effects/threats. You're also using 2k+ dudes as your win con and playing Solemn, which seems risky on a conceptual level in a format with Ring and Snatch.   I'm also wondering how this deck is even better than Goat control anyway. You have as many clunky draws (maybe more), your control aspects arent necessarily better, Chaos Sorcerer seems debatably worse than TER as a threat/removal engine, and you dont seem particularly faster or more resilient. You also seem really soft to the Zoo variants that have been getting attention lately, as you have little in the way of economical or effective defense (again, Chaos Sorcerer being debatably worse than TER here).     it's more complex and thought of deck than it might seem, you need to be playing around the right things. anyway the reason this thing is strong is that it has alot of resiliance against most threat cards in goat format and exploits them, also takes advantage of some stuff which is absurd if you are playing it in a synergic shell and not along with dead cards. many things here are on average hands better than stuff like ring, burial/call, tsuku loopin, ter , parshat in good situations.
  10. so i've been playing with this in the last 2 months, dont know if its new or common knowledge and for some reason people isnt playin it:     im postin it cause i would like to start playing some mirrors, i think this deck is on a completely different level both on power level and complexity of games compared to standard goat.
  11.   banning power cards like those makes an average/above average player beat a worse player more often, but makes a very good player win less often against another good player, those cards lead to much more complex line of thought. making the whole game an attrition war for +1s doesn't make the format any more skillfull, people with bad fundamentals will lose but the games would be so static and linear.    less potential for sacking doesn't mean more skill once you reach a certain point, and many games you lose thinking you got sacked might just be cause you can't play around some stuff, the reason goat format is skillfull is that it requires to play around and adapt to alot of different kinds of cards/approaches to win the game, cutting ways to win the game makes the game easier.   sure you would've beaten these opponents, but you winning does mean the game  is more skillfull?   not a personal atk to anyone, but especially if playing goat format, yugioh players should stop wastin they're time complaining and actually start thinkin how to approach things differently, don't be goats.   i think anyone actually good at the format will agree that stuff like serpent/ring/bls/pot of greed are actually healty once you master games, accepting an at least very low % of auto-won games is something you have to do any format you play/might think of, cutting these cards would lead to more unsolvable situations.     More complex lines of thought?  I guess you mean by this did they set faith?  Should I play meta noc etc.  If you don't have these cards this is completely irrelevant and I've acknowledged the little skill these cards do add to the format.  I love how you suggest you are a bad player at goats if you think these cards should be gone.  Honestly, I think most of the good players agree with me, not all of them bother to post their thoughts on this because they don't feel like having a massive argument with a bunch of people who don't know what their talking about and can only make stupid 1 sentence statements on the subject.  The thing about saying mof is worse is obv true, but to think its bad is just flat-out wrong.  You still run 15-17 spells in a deck and the ability to reuse noc, meta, heavy storm, graceful charity etc. is still very good.  The thing about good players beating good players less is also just completely untrue.  If a good player plays another good player and one plays a early pog and duo obv they are very ahead in the game and while not 100% guarenteed to win, it is extremely likely they will.  I think your suggesting that it is a skillful play when 2 good players play if one of them bluffs a faith, draws out removal, then later plays a duo twice by setting a faith.  Personally, I think "pro" plays like this are very easy to make, and doesn't mean you outplayed anyone.  Yes, I'm only naming 1 random scenario where you can do "a skill play" with a power card.  I'm sure you can name several, this doesn't reinforce your argument in the least.  In one of earlier posts I actually did name a few other plays you can make with the cards but do not want to repeat or take the time to list all of them.  The cards are generally akin to the current ygo cards in that they just play themselves.  The small % of skilled plays that can be made with them is far outweighed by the 95% of the time you will be making mindless plays with them.   While I do think your a good player at goat format, you reasoning here is just wrong.  Your taking a small % of the card's uses and making it out to make the game so much better.  However, I do appreciate someone at least is taking the time to try to make a reasoned argument on the issue, and not just a retarded one sentence statement such as "faith will be bad".  I've had this discussion with you before, and will just agree to disagree.  I understand the points you are making, we just disagree on the emphasis your putting on the skill in winning a game by making some ridiculous power play.   Edit:  I have been trying goats out irl with banning pog duo and adding dark hole.  I actually think it's pretty good.  I know it sounds like its close to the 1 for 1 shit that sucked right after goats, but I think that format failing was for different reasons, such as reaper and don becoming so good due to cyber dragon existing and goat/book going to 1.  Also banning mirror force and limiting noc was bad, and treeborn frog combined with cyber dragon made monarchs pretty ridiculous especially since you basically had to run a bunch of non-chainables (3 saku and 2-3 widespread) even though mobius was around, just because of don/reaper being so good.   I'd also like to say that many people that play goats now did not play during goats.  This doesn't take away your right to have an  opinion in matters, but I'd like to point out that many of you that are decent/good players now would not have been without 10 years of hindsight to benefit from.  The meta has changed since actual goats, and with the benefit of a decade of hindsight it has improved.  However, if you can use this decade of hindsight to be able to play goats more competitively, why not also use this hindsight to make the format more competitive by modifying it?     you are taking into account the very small % of games in which someone does get pog+faith early, leading into some overwhelming advantage cause of Tsuku/other power cards drawn and the other player not getting outs or ways to match advantage. these are the random games finishing cause of mof sacking, it's less than 10% of games for sure.   if all this overpowering doesn't happen on the first 2-3 turns ny other game is much longer and more complex than this, and this is thanks to stuff like pog/mof, cause even if i have +3 i have to know what are your outs or ways to come back at any point and play accordingly, stuff like pog, bls, ring, powerful mof flips  doesn't make the game more complex in a single situation but it does change how you plan your whole game, this is not modern yugioh where you get to set up your power play every game in the first few turns and win cause of that, most power plays need set-up, in goat format you might take 10 turns or more setting up the play you make to win, knowing that you are going to probably win that way since the start.   having flip effects able to win games means you have to take into account many more things when planning a game, 
  12.   banning power cards like those makes an average/above average player beat a worse player more often, but makes a very good player win less often against another good player, those cards lead to much more complex line of thought. making the whole game an attrition war for +1s doesn't make the format any more skillfull, people with bad fundamentals will lose but the games would be so static and linear.    less potential for sacking doesn't mean more skill once you reach a certain point, and many games you lose thinking you got sacked might just be cause you can't play around some stuff, the reason goat format is skillfull is that it requires to play around and adapt to alot of different kinds of cards/approaches to win the game, cutting ways to win the game makes the game easier.   sure you would've beaten these opponents, but you winning does mean the game  is more skillfull?   not a personal atk to anyone, but especially if playing goat format, yugioh players should stop wastin they're time complaining and actually start thinkin how to approach things differently, don't be goats.   i think anyone actually good at the format will agree that stuff like serpent/ring/bls/pot of greed are actually healty once you master games, accepting an at least very low % of auto-won games is something you have to do any format you play/might think of, cutting these cards would lead to more unsolvable situations.
  13. ggs sorry for bad connection
  14. on if theres any 2-0 online im iddeha
  15. DN: Iddeha