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Metal Gear Salad

Super rejuvenation

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DB2-EN162.jpg

I did it before Card of Condolence.

It was amazing until I found Hand Destruction doesn't discard.

However, I found this combo is legit.

Activate Super Rejuvination, effect going to resolve drawing 3. 6 Cards in hand.

End turn with 9 cards in hand. Discard 2 to get to 7, activate Super Rejuvination, draw 3+2.

Just to clarify, this is false, right? You only use the effect of SR once in the end phase, unless more than one are activated.

Cheers in advance.

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gamemaster    250

Yeah, you only resolve the effect of Super Rejuvenation once per SR played. But, what I think he's saying here is, if you've drawn another, you can play it after you've discarded for turn to drive up the count on the number of dragons you've discarded for turn. This, however, is also false.

If the Turn Player has seven or more cards in his hand at this time, he/she must discard to the Graveyard cards until they have only six cards in their hand. This action is the very last thing to happen in any End Phase.

I don't believe you can voluntarily make any new chains after you've discarded for hand size limit.

Although, that does raise a question (maybe Atem can get in here), if I discard a card with an effect that activates upon being discarded to the graveyard for hand size limit, and that card's effect starts a chain (i.e. Night Assailant), can my opponent or I chain to that card's effect?

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»slick    4680
DB2-EN162.jpg

I did it before Card of Condolence.

It was amazing until I found Hand Destruction doesn't discard.

However, I found this combo is legit.

Activate Super Rejuvination, effect going to resolve drawing 3. 6 Cards in hand.

End turn with 9 cards in hand. Discard 2 to get to 7, activate Super Rejuvination, draw 3+2.

Just to clarify, this is false, right? You only use the effect of SR once in the end phase, unless more than one are activated.

Cheers in advance.

correct

Once Main Phase 2 (or Main Phase 1 if no Battle Phase was conducted) has been completed, play proceeds to the End Phase. Any card effects that resolve in this Phase now take effect, such as "Change of Heart" or "Brain Control". The Turn Player gets to decide in which order any effect resolves.

If the Turn Player has seven or more cards in his hand at this time, he/she must discard to the Graveyard cards until they have only six cards in their hand. This action is the very last thing to happen in any End Phase.

If an action is to be taken "at the end of the End Phase", such as the wear-off of the temporary 3000 ATK boost of "Theinen the Great Sphinx", it is, predictably, the very last thing to happen in this Phase.

discarding your hand size down to 6 is the last thing to happen in the end phase. You cannot choose to activate cards after the discard gameplay mechanic during your end phase.

Yeah, you only resolve the effect of Super Rejuvenation once per SR played. But, what I think he's saying here is, if you've drawn another, you can play it after you've discarded for turn to drive up the count on the number of dragons you've discarded for turn. This, however, is also false.

If the Turn Player has seven or more cards in his hand at this time, he/she must discard to the Graveyard cards until they have only six cards in their hand. This action is the very last thing to happen in any End Phase.

I don't believe you can voluntarily make any new chains after you've discarded for hand size limit.

Although, that does raise a question (maybe Atem can get in here), if I discard a card with an effect that activates upon being discarded to the graveyard for hand size limit, and that card's effect starts a chain (i.e. Night Assailant), can my opponent or I chain to that card's effect?

This is a good (and tough to answer) question

I can't find any precedence. The closest thing I can find is...

If you have "Forced Requisition" active (face-up) and 7 cards in your hand during the End Phase (and one of them is a "Night Assailant"), and there is another "Night Assailant" in your Graveyard, and you discard your "Night Assailant" because you have 7 cards, your opponent must discard because of "Forced Requisition". Then you can activate the effect of "Night Assailant" to retrieve the other "Night Assailant". Now you have 7 cards in your hand again so you can discard "Night Assailant", and your opponent must discard again for "Forced Requisition". You can continue doing this until your opponent loses all cards in their hand.[1]

But ya, it doesn't answer the question

It is interesting that they specify face up

If activating cards in response to the discard was allowed, you wouldn't need to specify face up in this scenerio since you are creating a N.A. loop anyways, so you activate Forced after the 1st discard, they wouldn't discard yet at that time, but then you loop N.A. and then they start discarding.

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Assuming I discard a White Stone to bring my hand size to 6, can I chain another Super Rejuvenation to it's effect to draw even more during the end phase. Does the End Phase discard mechanic 'reset' and start up again after, and can I draw even more due to my 2nd SR that was chained to the White Stone effect, including cards discarded through the 'first' discard mechanic.

Please say that makes sense.

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»slick    4680
Assuming I discard a White Stone to bring my hand size to 6, can I chain another Super Rejuvenation to it's effect to draw even more during the end phase. Does the End Phase discard mechanic 'reset' and start up again after, and can I draw even more due to my 2nd SR that was chained to the White Stone effect, including cards discarded through the 'first' discard mechanic.

Please say that makes sense.

I know what you are asking

Yes, the End Phase mechanic will recur after you get your white stone search

What I'm saying is that I don't think you can chain Super Rej to it

I do not believe any cards can be played during, or in response to, the end phase discard mechanic or any mandatory triggers that occur at that time

I'm not 100%, but I'm pretty sure the only way to get a 100% answer on this is to ask Konami Rules Manager

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Assuming I discard a White Stone to bring my hand size to 6, can I chain another Super Rejuvenation to it's effect to draw even more during the end phase. Does the End Phase discard mechanic 'reset' and start up again after, and can I draw even more due to my 2nd SR that was chained to the White Stone effect, including cards discarded through the 'first' discard mechanic.

Please say that makes sense.

I know what you are asking

Yes, the End Phase mechanic will recur after you get your white stone search

What I'm saying is that I don't think you can chain Super Rej to it

I do not believe any cards can be played during, or in response to, the end phase discard mechanic or any mandatory triggers that occur at that time

Never before have I seen mandatory triggers get skipped.

Idk, this stuff rattles me.

Summon John Danker/Atem.

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gamemaster    250
Assuming I discard a White Stone to bring my hand size to 6, can I chain another Super Rejuvenation to it's effect to draw even more during the end phase. Does the End Phase discard mechanic 'reset' and start up again after, and can I draw even more due to my 2nd SR that was chained to the White Stone effect, including cards discarded through the 'first' discard mechanic.

Please say that makes sense.

This is essentially what I was getting at with my question.

In one instance (end phase hand limit resultant effects can be chained to voluntarily), Super Rejuvenation becomes even better, as, even if you do not have BEWD in deck, White Stone still creates a chain being a mandatory effect; you discard 3 White Stones with or without targets, you draw three extra cards.

In the other (end phase hand limit resultant effects cannot be chained to voluntarily, but can be chained to by mandatory effects), cards such as Night Assailant and White Stone could not be negated by card effects that aren't mandatory if their effects trigger at the end of the end phase. No Chariot, Divine Wrath, etc.

I wonder which it is?

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»John Danker    945

I'm curious, just because an effect that's chainable happens in the during the end phase what makes anyone believe that they can't be chained to?

A step / phase doesn't end until both players agree it ends of course. Effects can be activated / chained to in the end phase (providing the timing is correct) until both players agree they don't wish to activate any other effects and all mandatory effects have resolved, at which point the turn player requests to end turn.

Or.....in my haste and reading quickly because I'm at work and doing a dozen other things, did I misunderstand the issue / question completely?

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Oceanus    1129

I didn't read all the silly things going, but I assume it's all confusion based around how one can continue chains during the End Phase if discarding from the hand until 6 is the very last action of the End Phase.

My guess is even though the last thing to happen in the End Phase is discarding due to hand size, triggers can still trigger because of it, and cards can still chain to them. Although, this doesn't necessarily answer the question.

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I'm curious, just because an effect that's chainable happens in the during the end phase what makes anyone believe that they can't be chained to?

A step / phase doesn't end until both players agree it ends of course. Effects can be activated / chained to in the end phase (providing the timing is correct) until both players agree they don't wish to activate any other effects and all mandatory effects have resolved, at which point the turn player requests to end turn.

Or.....in my haste and reading quickly because I'm at work and doing a dozen other things, did I misunderstand the issue / question completely?

Discarding to the maximum cards in hand is the very last thing to happen during the end phase.

You've not misunderstood the question John, let me explain.

In this scenario, I am curious as to whether a game mechanic 'resets' itself when I chain to an effect that triggers during this mechanics timing.

The simple way to ask this question is 'Can I draw more cards for Super Rejuvenation during my end phase when reducing my hand to the limit?'. Generally, I'd assume that this game mechanic does not start a chain; so no.

However, If a card effect activates when discarded (ie, White Stone of Legend/Night Assailant etc), does this allow a chain to begin? If so, does the game allow a 'second chance' to allow the resolution of said chain. I'd assume so, simply because it'd still make me discard down to six in hand after using the afore mentioned cards.

Or does something else happen?

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»slick    4680
I'm curious, just because an effect that's chainable happens in the during the end phase what makes anyone believe that they can't be chained to?

A step / phase doesn't end until both players agree it ends of course. Effects can be activated / chained to in the end phase (providing the timing is correct) until both players agree they don't wish to activate any other effects and all mandatory effects have resolved, at which point the turn player requests to end turn.

Or.....in my haste and reading quickly because I'm at work and doing a dozen other things, did I misunderstand the issue / question completely?

Yah, we're not talking the original question anymore

The question now is:

During the end phase, turn player has decided to end his turn. Non-turn player has no response to this.

He now has to discard to reduce his hand size to 6

During the discard, a mandatory trigger effect activates (be it night assailant, white stone, etc)

Can either player respond to the mandatory trigger effect with another card effect?

For example, could the non-turn player activate a divine wrath to negate the night assailant effect?

Could the turn player activate a non-related card like Super Rejuvination as a chain to Night Assailants effect?

I'm thinking no, since the discard mechanic is the very last thing to happen and at a time when BOTH players have agreed to end the turn.

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»slick    4680
Assuming I discard a White Stone to bring my hand size to 6, can I chain another Super Rejuvenation to it's effect to draw even more during the end phase. Does the End Phase discard mechanic 'reset' and start up again after, and can I draw even more due to my 2nd SR that was chained to the White Stone effect, including cards discarded through the 'first' discard mechanic.

Please say that makes sense.

I know what you are asking

Yes, the End Phase mechanic will recur after you get your white stone search

What I'm saying is that I don't think you can chain Super Rej to it

I do not believe any cards can be played during, or in response to, the end phase discard mechanic or any mandatory triggers that occur at that time

Never before have I seen mandatory triggers get skipped.

Idk, this stuff rattles me.

Summon John Danker/Atem.

Who said anything about mandatory triggers being skipped?

Also game mechanics don't reset. They don't activate. They don't trigger. They just exist as an inherent game rule.

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»John Danker    945
I'm curious, just because an effect that's chainable happens in the during the end phase what makes anyone believe that they can't be chained to?

A step / phase doesn't end until both players agree it ends of course. Effects can be activated / chained to in the end phase (providing the timing is correct) until both players agree they don't wish to activate any other effects and all mandatory effects have resolved, at which point the turn player requests to end turn.

Or.....in my haste and reading quickly because I'm at work and doing a dozen other things, did I misunderstand the issue / question completely?

Yah, we're not talking the original question anymore

The question now is:

During the end phase, turn player has decided to end his turn. Non-turn player has no response to this.

He now has to discard to reduce his hand size to 6

During the discard, a mandatory trigger effect activates (be it night assailant, white stone, etc)

Can either player respond to the mandatory trigger effect with another card effect?

For example, could the non-turn player activate a divine wrath to negate the night assailant effect?

Could the turn player activate a non-related card like Super Rejuvination as a chain to Night Assailants effect?

I'm thinking no, since the discard mechanic is the very last thing to happen and at a time when BOTH players have agreed to end the turn.

Bottomline, if a chain begins in the end phase, regarless of whether it's at the start of or the "end" of that phase, it can be chained to. (Assuming the timing is correct for the card chained)

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gamemaster    250
I'm curious, just because an effect that's chainable happens in the during the end phase what makes anyone believe that they can't be chained to?

A step / phase doesn't end until both players agree it ends of course. Effects can be activated / chained to in the end phase (providing the timing is correct) until both players agree they don't wish to activate any other effects and all mandatory effects have resolved, at which point the turn player requests to end turn.

Or.....in my haste and reading quickly because I'm at work and doing a dozen other things, did I misunderstand the issue / question completely?

Yah, we're not talking the original question anymore

The question now is:

During the end phase, turn player has decided to end his turn. Non-turn player has no response to this.

He now has to discard to reduce his hand size to 6

During the discard, a mandatory trigger effect activates (be it night assailant, white stone, etc)

Can either player respond to the mandatory trigger effect with another card effect?

For example, could the non-turn player activate a divine wrath to negate the night assailant effect?

Could the turn player activate a non-related card like Super Rejuvination as a chain to Night Assailants effect?

I'm thinking no, since the discard mechanic is the very last thing to happen and at a time when BOTH players have agreed to end the turn.

Bottomline, if a chain begins in the end phase, regarless of whether it's at the start of or the "end" of that phase, it can be chained to. (Assuming the timing is correct for the card chained)

Hate to beat an old dog but, one final question.

If we do chain the card that activates at the end of the end phase, once that chain resolves, where do we go from there?

Does the turn immediately end? Or can new chains be created before we proceed to another end phase discard step?

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»John Danker    945
Hate to beat an old dog but, one final question.

If we do chain the card that activates at the end of the end phase, once that chain resolves, where do we go from there?

Does the turn immediately end? Or can new chains be created before we proceed to another end phase discard step?

Always fall back on, "No step / phase ends until both players agree they have no further legal actions to perform or activate. At this time the turn player requests to move to the next step / phase or end turn."

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Oceanus    1129

But if you do such a thing, and end up with 7+ cards in hand, do you discard due to hand size again?

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Oceanus    1129

The funny thing is is that that doesn't actually answer whether or not you have to discard due to hand size again :P.

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»John Danker    945
The funny thing is is that that doesn't actually answer whether or not you have to discard due to hand size again :P.

Yes, you always discard for hand size. If by doing so you were to activate an effect that caused you to draw again, you'd then discard again.

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gamemaster    250
I wanna know if I can do something cool with Super Rejuvination.

Like.

<discarded 3 Dragons this turn, 6cih, unresolved Super Rejuvination>

End Phase draw to 9 ( one of them beign a rejuvination)

Discard 3 dragons to go to 6.

Play Rejuvination, draw 6.

Yes, you can do that. Re: Grimoire

So it's totally unnecessary to have another chain; you can just discard, play, discard, play.

My conceptions about the end phase were ass backwards to say the least. I am not looking forward to explaining this to folks if I ever play this card.

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Polynom    10
I wanna know if I can do something cool with Super Rejuvination.

Like.

<discarded 3 Dragons this turn, 6cih, unresolved Super Rejuvination>

End Phase draw to 9 ( one of them beign a rejuvination)

Discard 3 dragons to go to 6.

Play Rejuvination, draw 6.

Yes, you can do that. Re: Grimoire

So it's totally unnecessary to have another chain; you can just discard, play, discard, play.

My conceptions about the end phase were ass backwards to say the least. I am not looking forward to explaining this to folks if I ever play this card.

Sorry that I have to bring this old topic up again.

But I'm not sure if I understood the End Phase correctly.

So it is possible to discard to 6 cards and than activate Super Rejuvenation?

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I wanna know if I can do something cool with Super Rejuvination.

Like.

<discarded 3 Dragons this turn, 6cih, unresolved Super Rejuvination>

End Phase draw to 9 ( one of them beign a rejuvination)

Discard 3 dragons to go to 6.

Play Rejuvination, draw 6.

Yes, you can do that. Re: Grimoire

So it's totally unnecessary to have another chain; you can just discard, play, discard, play.

My conceptions about the end phase were ass backwards to say the least. I am not looking forward to explaining this to folks if I ever play this card.

Sorry that I have to bring this old topic up again.

But I'm not sure if I understood the End Phase correctly.

So it is possible to discard to 6 cards and than activate Super Rejuvenation?

From this thread we assume yes, BUT ONLY because we assume you can chain Super Rejuvenation to a card that has a mandatory trigger effect when discarded (eg, Night Assailant, White Stone).

Discarding from the hand to bring your hand down to 6 does not start a chain in order to play Super Rejuvenation. Super Rejuvenation can be only be played if it's chained to something actually chainable, ie, said mandatory trigger effect.

However, from Gamemaster's recent ruling at the SJC, things are up in the air atm. There's no official ruling but the above is what we deduced on the forum. This scenario is entirely at your HJ's discretion.

oh look Atem's reading.

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Polynom    10
I wanna know if I can do something cool with Super Rejuvination.

Like.

<discarded 3 Dragons this turn, 6cih, unresolved Super Rejuvination>

End Phase draw to 9 ( one of them beign a rejuvination)

Discard 3 dragons to go to 6.

Play Rejuvination, draw 6.

Yes, you can do that. Re: Grimoire

So it's totally unnecessary to have another chain; you can just discard, play, discard, play.

My conceptions about the end phase were ass backwards to say the least. I am not looking forward to explaining this to folks if I ever play this card.

Sorry that I have to bring this old topic up again.

But I'm not sure if I understood the End Phase correctly.

So it is possible to discard to 6 cards and than activate Super Rejuvenation?

From this thread we assume yes, BUT ONLY because we assume you can chain Super Rejuvenation to a card that has a mandatory trigger effect when discarded (eg, Night Assailant, White Stone).

Discarding from the hand to bring your hand down to 6 does not start a chain in order to play Super Rejuvenation. Super Rejuvenation can be only be played if it's chained to something actually chainable, ie, said mandatory trigger effect.

However, from Gamemaster's recent ruling at the SJC, things are up in the air atm. There's no official ruling but the above is what we deduced on the forum. This scenario is entirely at your HJ's discretion.

oh look Atem's reading.

Ah ok thanks.

If I discard 3 normal dragons that have no mandatory trigger effects I cant chain Super Rejuvenation because the discard was due to a game mechanic and they don't start chains

Did I understand it correctly?

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it but I'm kind of new to the game so its a littel difficult to understand in the beginning

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Yes. That's what has been deduced so far, but remember; This is all unofficial discussion as to what should happen based on current rulings knowledge and patterns.

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