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N e J i    902

The Arya - Sansa fights were real. When Arya arrived at Winterfell, she didn't know what to expect and then she saw LF pulling the strings so she tried to understand wtf was going on. The supposed threats towards Sansa weren't actual threats, it's was just her being weird and teasing her sister, whom, again, she was trying to figure out. Sansa on the other hand, felt threatened by Arya because she saw what she was capable of and by realizing that she's now an assassin, she didn't know what kind of mental state Arya was in. So, the fights were real. They were feeling each other up.

 

Sansa always knew that LF was shady but she also knew that he loved her and because he was Lord of the Vale, he was also a strategic ally. I think LF went a little too far trying to persuade Sansa to kill Arya and that's when Sansa realized LF was trying to manipulate her, to kill her sister of all things. What wasn't shown but implied was a meeting between the Stark siblings, Bran included, and I mention Bran because he clearly had a part in setting things straight. So, everything he saw was perfectly legitimate and it wasn't a case of the show deliberately deceiving the viewers.

 

LF is smart but when it comes to Sansa he was also emotional. He was eager to win her heart and that made him reckless. Arya and Bran were also too much of a wildcard for him to truly anticipate their actions, thus leading to that scene, which I must say, not only was surprising but also very satisfying.

 

I think the main gripe with this season isn't the plot itself but the shortcuts the writers are taking to get to were they want, and granted there have been a lot of shortcuts, but they also don't have the time for a proper build up. In a way, the books are a pretty good picture of the opposite. GRRM spent so much time building things up and now he has a lot of stuff but doesn't have an exit strategy.

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Aaron    2002
31 minutes ago, N e J i said:

The Arya - Sansa fights were real. When Arya arrived at Winterfell, she didn't know what to expect and then she saw LF pulling the strings so she tried to understand wtf was going on. The supposed threats towards Sansa weren't actual threats, it's was just her being weird and teasing her sister, whom, again, she was trying to figure out. Sansa on the other hand, felt threatened by Arya because she saw what she was capable of and by realizing that she's now an assassin, she didn't know what kind of mental state Arya was in. So, the fights were real. They were feeling each other up.

 

Sansa always knew that LF was shady but she also knew that he loved her and because he was Lord of the Vale, he was also a strategic ally. I think LF went a little too far trying to persuade Sansa to kill Arya and that's when Sansa realized LF was trying to manipulate her, to kill her sister of all things. What wasn't shown but implied was a meeting between the Stark siblings, Bran included, and I mention Bran because he clearly had a part in setting things straight. So, everything he saw was perfectly legitimate and it wasn't a case of the show deliberately deceiving the viewers.

 

LF is smart but when it comes to Sansa he was also emotional. He was eager to win her heart and that made him reckless. Arya and Bran were also too much of a wildcard for him to truly anticipate their actions, thus leading to that scene, which I must say, not only was surprising but also very satisfying.

 

I think the main gripe with this season isn't the plot itself but the shortcuts the writers are taking to get to were they want, and granted there have been a lot of shortcuts, but they also don't have the time for a proper build up. In a way, the books are a pretty good picture of the opposite. GRRM spent so much time building things up and now he has a lot of stuff but doesn't have an exit strategy.

 

 

 

lol nah, it was just horrid and terrible.  everyone was acting far dumber than usual, especially LF. LF had no clear beneficial motive to wanting arya dead.  it was just the shittest storyline in GOT next to "capture a wight".

 

 

 

 

 

IMO GRRM does have an exit strategy, its the TV show writers that don't. 

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Sophocles    2950

In most of the series we follow the starks and see events from their perspective and eventually we watch them getting screwed by courtly intrigue that happened off-screen.

In this storyline, we watched Littlefinger's plot unfold and watch him getting screwed by the Stark kids by intrigue that happened off-screen.

One could argue it's this change in the twist that feels so jarring this episode, but that it's symbolic of the Stark kids finally learning how to protect and handle themselves in the political arena.

But maybe that's giving the writers too much credit.

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Medb    773

The key thing between Arya-Sansa-Littlefinger that I felt led to that end, was when Littlefinger was playing the "game" with Sansa, trying to find out what Arya wanted.  The moment Littlefinger led her the conclusion of Arya wanting to be Lady of Winterfell is when Sansa knew LF was trying to get her to get rid of Arya. Sansa has always known (which I believe even hearkens back to a conversation with Arya in Season 1) that Arya had absolutely no desire to be Lady of Winterfell, that wasn't her thing.  This led Sansa meeting with Arya and Bran, who has told them he can see everything, to rely what Littlefinger has done that they didn't know about.  And, Littlefinger wasn't being stupid, he was being reckless, as he was pulling the strings one arguably one of the most powerful places in Westeros, he didn't want to lose that power to people he didn't know about or how to manipulate.  He may also have felt he had a timetable; Bran's "Chaos is a ladder" remark at Littlefinger may have tipped him off, and told him he needed to push things along quickly before Bran fucks things up for him.

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+rei+    34494

He asked Royce to take him back to the Vale after confessing to killing the leader of the Vale which got him his position

lets be real thats pretty stupid. 

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Grimey    8112
1 hour ago, rei said:

He asked Royce to take him back to the Vale after confessing to killing the leader of the Vale which got him his position

lets be real thats pretty stupid. 

 

ok yea that part was rly stupid

 

the rest of it seemed ok tho. 

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N e J i    902
1 hour ago, Grimey said:

 

ok yea that part was rly stupid

 

the rest of it seemed ok tho. 

That was just him panicking. He isn't used to being caught off guard, let alone in such a life threatening situation. He was desperately reaching out. I found his reactions to be perfectly in line with his cowardly character.

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Bazoo    5692

I don't have much issue with the actual plot points. A dragon becoming part of the dark army makes a lot of sense to build tension. Little finger getting caught could symbolize the ultimate strength of the Stark children alongside the death of the original philosophy of the "Game of Thrones"--instead of humans being at each other's throats constantly, they are now uniting to beat global freezing (lol). Littlefinger is the epitome of aforementioned "Game of Thrones" in that he constantly pits people against each other. Thus he needed to die.

 

But of course the issues are with the actual threads connecting them. We used to have thick threads connecting each point tied to emotional battles. Did the writers seriously think that the with capture plot was the best way to get that dragon dead? They couldn't think of anything else? Why did the Starks get to execute LF with no evidence, and was it really considered couth for Arya to stab him in the neck or was that just 'cool' to witness? Before all this, why did Jaime need to "swim" in armor, couldn't we have seen that resolved in another way? Not to mention Cersei being kind of goddamn stupid the entire final episode, with Tyrion's conversation only existing because herp derp we need to resolve all the threads.

 

Maybe it just needed a full 10 episode season??

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N e J i    902
1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

Did the writers seriously think that the with capture plot was the best way to get that dragon dead?

Was there any other way?

 

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

Why did the Starks get to execute LF with no evidence, and was it really considered couth for Arya to stab him in the neck or was that just 'cool' to witness?

They didn't have "CSI" evidence but then again... They had severe accusation that LF couldn't refute. In Westeros, that has always been enough. As for Arya, the judge is also the executioner. That is the Stark way (though technically the judge was Sansa but I'm sure no one was expecting her to get her hands dirty, so the other Stark will do).

 

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

why did Jaime need to "swim" in armor, couldn't we have seen that resolved in another way?

Maybe we should assume that his armor is made of Valerian steel? Still I do think that was indeed poorly handled as there was no build for that to be a naturally fair assumption.

 

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

Not to mention Cersei being kind of goddamn stupid the entire final episode, with Tyrion's conversation only existing because herp derp we need to resolve all the threads.

She wasn't being stupid. She had a plan and when Jon didn't act according to her plan, she responded emotionally. Her conversation with Tyrion gave her time to calm down and think things through. Besides, we don't know everything that they talked about. The look on Tyrions face when Dany was with Jon was sort of suspicious (though it can be interpreted in a number of ways).

 

1 hour ago, Bazoo said:

Maybe it just needed a full 10 episode season??

Definitely would have been better.

 

Again, although I agree that the season was rushed, I believe the main plot points have been handled pretty well.

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Bazoo    5692

^ Yes, but who knows/believes that besides the Starks?

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+rei+    34494

littlefinger literally confessed to killing lysa arryn and his entire power depends on that, the knights of the vale he threatened aren't gonna put up a fight learning that come on 

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Aaron    2002
20 hours ago, N e J i said:

Was there any other way?

 

They didn't have "CSI" evidence but then again... They had severe accusation that LF couldn't refute. In Westeros, that has always been enough. As for Arya, the judge is also the executioner. That is the Stark way (though technically the judge was Sansa but I'm sure no one was expecting her to get her hands dirty, so the other Stark will do).

 

Maybe we should assume that his armor is made of Valerian steel? Still I do think that was indeed poorly handled as there was no build for that to be a naturally fair assumption.

 

She wasn't being stupid. She had a plan and when Jon didn't act according to her plan, she responded emotionally. Her conversation with Tyrion gave her time to calm down and think things through. Besides, we don't know everything that they talked about. The look on Tyrions face when Dany was with Jon was sort of suspicious (though it can be interpreted in a number of ways).

 

Definitely would have been better.

 

Again, although I agree that the season was rushed, I believe the main plot points have been handled pretty well.

 

what main plot points?

they used possibly shittest dumbest methods to give nk a dragon and kill lf. 

 

 

 

my friends from work told me got is like mcdonalds now... full of shit but tastes so god damn good and i kinda agree with them., 

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Jazz    5067

This entire show is now fan fiction. It makes me really happy because it gives me excitement and motivation to read the new books whenever they eventually come out. It's no coincidence that the writing has declined as we've gotten further past the end point of the most recent books.

 

Like I don't doubt that the people dying and the outcomes unfolding are the end goals of the series, but the manner in which they are unfolding is clearly rushed, ill-conceived, too convenient, and full of holes. Ever since Weiss and Benioff started doing the 'after the episode' look backs, you could tell these 2 clowns weren't the brains behind the plot points. Their strength is clearly in producing and translating established written works into compelling television, and without a completed source material, they're struggling.

 

None of the episodes this season were as good as Season 6. The finale of Season 6 might be my favorite episode from the entire series and I don't think it will be topped in the final season. The characters all seem tired and mechanical at this point. Cersei has lost her edge. Jamie is boring. The Starks feel too safe. Littlefinger died without causing enough trouble. John Snow has out John Snow'd himself in terms of stupidity. Dany sucks.

 

At this point, the only person I want to get the Iron Throne is like, Gendry or Mycroft.

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Aaron    2002

Little finger is one of my biggest annoyances.  I really thought he'd do something huge and everything he was doing behind the scenes was leading up to it. Instead he ended up just being a slimey guy taking advantage of children across the land and having a specifically soft spot for sansa. 

 

Jamie I agree is BORING as hell and I agree totally on Cersei too.  S01/S02/S03 alluded to a lot of characters having the potential to have MUCH more of an impact on the plot. However its kind of turned into the Daenarys and John Snow show (versus the Night King).  No doubt its fan fiction and still good fan fiction with a huge budget. 

 

 

At this point, I no longer care who gets the throne. I expect some cheesy ass ending. John Snow will either get the throne but more likely die a heroic sacrifice with some stupid plot twist that him or Bran are the Night King through some weird GOT logic. They'll probably face off in some shit sword fight which will suck because NK has just shown some ridiculous magic/strength to down a dragon with one javelin. Still not sure if I'd be completely surprised if the GOT writers just gave John Snow Super Saiyan Blue. 

 

Also Bran's change in personality has really made him a lot less endearing. Its as if his personality has been sapped from him. Arya's recent personality transplant is also quite sad. She was a real survivor before, now shes just a bit pig headed and... well weird. 

 

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Aaron    2002

RIP Little finger and Lord Varys

 

They've been dead since the show ran out of book content. LF converted from political mastermind who a deep sinister love for Stark women to creepyuncle2k17

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N e J i    902
11 hours ago, Jazz said:

This entire show is now fan fiction. It makes me really happy because it gives me excitement and motivation to read the new books whenever they eventually come out. It's no coincidence that the writing has declined as we've gotten further past the end point of the most recent books.

 

Like I don't doubt that the people dying and the outcomes unfolding are the end goals of the series, but the manner in which they are unfolding is clearly rushed, ill-conceived, too convenient, and full of holes. Ever since Weiss and Benioff started doing the 'after the episode' look backs, you could tell these 2 clowns weren't the brains behind the plot points. Their strength is clearly in producing and translating established written works into compelling television, and without a completed source material, they're struggling.

 

None of the episodes this season were as good as Season 6. The finale of Season 6 might be my favorite episode from the entire series and I don't think it will be topped in the final season. The characters all seem tired and mechanical at this point. Cersei has lost her edge. Jamie is boring. The Starks feel too safe. Littlefinger died without causing enough trouble. John Snow has out John Snow'd himself in terms of stupidity. Dany sucks.

 

At this point, the only person I want to get the Iron Throne is like, Gendry or Mycroft.

Season 6 was almost entirely post books, especially the ending.

 

I think it's only natural that everything is feeling rushed, not only because they have less 3 hours to tell the story, but also because everything is converging. I remember in the earlier seasons when the complaint was "each episode is like, 90% boring and 10% really cool stuff" and of course that 10% is going to land harder and have a lot more impact. Now that the main characters are converging into a single arc and every episode had a lot of development, it feels way cheaper.

 

I'm not saying I prefer this approach to the earlier one or vice-versa, I just know that I've been enjoying this season.

 

2 minutes ago, Aaron said:

RIP Little finger and Lord Varys

 

They've been dead since the show ran out of book content. LF converted from political mastermind who a deep sinister love for Stark women to creepyuncle2k17

I seriously don't get the criticism over LF. How is his character so different from the LF from season 1? The only different thing is that now he was caught off guard which is something that would have to happen eventually or he'd end up sitting on the Iron Throne. The Starks outsmarting him was a consequence of their growth, and it's about time they start getting the upper hand. I mean, if you want to see Starks getting screwed over and over again, you have 5 seasons full of that.

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+Malcolm    4568

outsmarting him??????? he got cheated by one of the worst characters in the history of characters in any medium

 

the season was pretty fucking awful and this is not got anymore

 

it might look pretty but the content is shit

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Aaron    2002
14 minutes ago, N e J i said:

Season 6 was almost entirely post books, especially the ending.

 

I think it's only natural that everything is feeling rushed, not only because they have less 3 hours to tell the story, but also because everything is converging. I remember in the earlier seasons when the complaint was "each episode is like, 90% boring and 10% really cool stuff" and of course that 10% is going to land harder and have a lot more impact. Now that the main characters are converging into a single arc and every episode had a lot of development, it feels way cheaper.

 

I'm not saying I prefer this approach to the earlier one or vice-versa, I just know that I've been enjoying this season.

 

I seriously don't get the criticism over LF. How is his character so different from the LF from season 1? The only different thing is that now he was caught off guard which is something that would have to happen eventually or he'd end up sitting on the Iron Throne. The Starks outsmarting him was a consequence of their growth, and it's about time they start getting the upper hand. I mean, if you want to see Starks getting screwed over and over again, you have 5 seasons full of that.

 

 

We watch different shows. If you can't see the difference between LF S01 and the sorry excuse for LF now then there is no point further discussing. 

 

They didn't outsmart shit. I still don't see what in the world the siblings did that was clever. Sansa just decided to out him infront of everyone for what she already knew. Arya and her had a little squabble behind closed doors, Bran is sapped of all personality which makes the revelation that he is the night king even less fulfilling when it eventually drops and he dies. 

 

 

 

 

 

----------------------------

The complaint of 90% boring 10% cool stuff is fucking retarded and really draws the line between viewers and their tastes. These are the same people which probably find The Wire boring. Give them a fire breathing blue dragon and they're happy with whatever BS is thrown their way. Thats fine, everyone has their tastes but its not when GOT has been for its first few years. 

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Aaron    2002

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/06/3-reasons-why-littlefinger-is-way-worse-in-the-sho.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2017/08/29/why-that-game-of-thrones-death-you-loved-was-actually-a-tragedy/#4662517c7ace

http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-of-thrones-littlefinger-death-books-george-r-r-martin/

 

 

its pretty obv to me LF and varys are far too intelligent, intricate and subtle for the TV producers to properly deal with. and once they were left with those two in their own hands, it was always going to end poorly. 

Edited by Aaron

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Jazz    5067
3 hours ago, Malcolm said:

outsmarting him??????? he got cheated by one of the worst characters in the history of characters in any medium

 

the season was pretty fucking awful and this is not got anymore

 

it might look pretty but the content is shit

 

Bran?

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