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»Farley    1035

I was about to play this but then I realised you can't deny and I cried.

No denying creeps?

Back to dota it is.

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»Paxman    4776

No denying ANYTHING. I watched my friend tower hug and time creeps because there was no one stopping him lol. Also no tower denies.

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»Farley    1035

Whatttttttttttttttttt. Have to be to able to deny towers. That's pretty lame.

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Jesus the Jew    986

No denying ANYTHING. I watched my friend tower hug and time creeps because there was no one stopping him lol. Also no tower denies.

1. Gangplank has a built in deny skill.

2. There was a recent topic on the LoL website about this:

Denying

The lack of denying is a major change in LoL from DotA. Denying existed in War 3 as a method to destroy your own units in case you got stuck in a food cap situation. A few ladder players used it once in a while to deny XP, but it really was not intended for competitive play. DotA stumbled upon this, and kept it because it added actions for players to perform in the early game, and offered subtle techniques of lane control to optimize tactical situations related to ganking.

We are opposed to creep denying because:

1. It enlarges the early game imbalance between ranged and melee Champions, and we think it is more fun for all Champions to be at least somewhat competitive at all phases of the game.

2. It denies enemy players of their satisfaction on an extremely frequent basis, preventing them from having incremental rewards.

3. It leads to passive play, and slows down the game. We feel that high-activity, high-action faster games are more fun. Team fights more than anything else are what make this genre fun, and faster games mean more team fights.

4. It is weird. Killing your own guys?

We are opposed to tower denying because:

1. Tower pushing is a team objective – it requires teamwork to do effectively, and we have made towers reward ONLY to a team in LoL. Having deny reduces the frequency of team rewards, and thus, reduces teamwork. We feel that teamwork is the #1 thing that makes LoL fun.

2. It skews the clarity of game objectives. Towers are meant to be protected and can easily trigger a team fight… and it is wonky when you have a giant DPS cannon defending you, and you instead sit behind it timing a last hit rather than defending.

3. Similar reasons to the creep denying issue.

How we are remedying:

1. In LoL, spellcasting in the early game can be done far, far more frequently than in DotA. I think anyone who has played it will agree on this point. This adds significantly more skill-differentiating actions to perform.

2. LoL has far more individual creeps than in DotA, giving you a similar number of attack actions – but your attack actions are all last hit attempts now.

3. Tower kills award huge gold and experience awards to your entire team. This incents offensive early behavior, which creates team fights (which lead to a lot of skill differentiation and fun). This in turn reduces the desire to play defensively, and the need for lane control.

4. Early game ganking has slightly lower rewards in LoL than in DotA, which de-emphasizes the need for hyper-defensive play via denies to stay competitive in certain Champion matchups. If you get ganked a few times in the early game, it sucks, but it’s not nearly as punitive as a team fight loss later, and not nearly as punitive as in DotA.

-------------------------

I agree with those points quite a bit.

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»Domino    149

HoN >

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»Domino    149

HoN = 30 more dollars that I have to spend.

shrug, bettar game!

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Jesus the Jew    986

Also, DoTA is still better than HoN (which is sort of c/p of DoTA to begin with + better graphics). LoL has a differentiated product.

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Also, DoTA is still better than HoN (which is sort of c/p of DoTA to begin with + better graphics). LoL has a differentiated product.

Agreed, DotA is leagues better than HoN.

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-Juann    50

What? They were serious about nerfing Rammus?

I thought they were just joking.

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»Paxman    4776

Also, harassing takes far more skill than denying.

This is the most stupid thing i've ever read.

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Jesus the Jew    986

Also, harassing takes far more skill than denying.

This is the most stupid thing i've ever read.

How so? Instead of focusing on killing your own guys and your own tower, why not just focus on moving the game along? LoL is a lot more exciting and fun to play because there is no denying (except with Gangplank's ability, so if you still want it...there's one char to do it with).

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Swaggalo's Cock    1046

Your post contended the idea that denying takes the fun out of the game, but he didn't say that at all so your response was not an appropriate follow up to "How so?"

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Jesus the Jew    986

I guess so. What I mean is that the game becomes more focused on harassing and last hitting, which in my opinion are better mechanics than denying.

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»lo fi    2612

DotA and HoN are practically one in the same.

As for the argument that stands.

If you want a game that's DotA esuqe, and not DotA.

Play League.

If you want a shinier DotA.. Play HoN..

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DotA and HoN are practically one in the same.

As for the argument that stands.

If you want a game that's DotA esuqe, and not DotA.

Play League.

If you want a shinier DotA.. Play HoN..

If HoN was better, it would have a bigger competitive player base by now.

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JCSchwarz    534

HoN is better than DotA only for the reason that they have competitive support. Otherwise DotA is better in every aspect except for graphics.

LoL is a new type of style of the DotA-Esque franchise. Although I dislike it for the fact that denying was taken out of the game. Denying is a huge measure of skill as it takes quite a bit more skill to last hit, deny, harass, and still maintain good map awareness so as not to get ganked, but then again ganking in LoL is horrendous compared to in DotA.

DotA also seems to have more roles that a player can fulfill with whichever hero, and more strategies. Tri-laning is the most common thing in DotA which if played correctly will give you 2 strong carries and 1 slightly strong carry who has been babysat throughout the game. But the fact that LoL basically only has Tanks, Nukers, Carries...kind of ruins an aspect of the game to me. Where as DotA has Roamers/Gankers/Nukers/Disablers/Carries/Semi-Carries/Tanks/Turtlers/Babysitters. Just the sheer amount of diversity in DotA puts it so far ahead of LoL.

HoN TBH should never be discussed as a serious game. It's horribly imbalanced compared to LoL or DotA. Its graphics may look nice but overall I'm not gonna play a game where if I were to play competitively I would want to ban 20 heroes just to make it a balanced pool. Also having to pay $30 just for the game is not worth it at all. Where as with DotA I still have WC3 ladder and so many custom games to play for $30-$40. (Not sure how much it costs for RoC + TFT)

All of this is really irrelevant though, as Valve + Icefrog making DotA2 will blow all 3 out of the water.

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Elements    569

renetkon looks fucking redic from the video ;/

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Jesus the Jew    986

I hear a new DoTA version is coming out soon. Should be good. One thing about LoL, that will contribute to it's longevity is the fact that it's much easier to get into. DoTA is really hard right off the bat and if you can't hit the learning curve, you're screwed for a while. Some of the characters fulfill several roles if necessary. For instance, Heimerdinger with his turrets can turtle up pretty well. Alistar is pretty good at roaming around with his AoE stun and his ridiculous Headbutt ability to feed your allies. If, by babysitters, you mean support, Janna is a pretty powerful support with her shield and AoE heal

ulty (or Soraka, Kayle, or Morgana as well).

Anyway, back to LoL, I am saving up to get Kassadin. He seems so bawss.

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