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Muscular Black Mr. T

circumcision

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asfggh    3891

my brother had it done because when we were younger i jumped on the other end of a seesaw to him. oops.

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i am circumsized because i had urinary problems when i was less than a year old. does this count as immoral?

sounds like a proper application because there was a condition you were actually being treated for

>And its not like the smegma frequently occuring in uncircumcised men is going to be great for sensation... or for chafing for that matter. Incidentaly, stating that wearing clothing will callous your penis is hilarious.<

Gee, they can wash their dicks - are you implying widespread circumcision is appropriate because it serves as a crutch for laziness and poor hygiene? whether callous develops or not, the foreskin protects the sensitive head from chafing and irritation

rei: more info on schober study? how did they quantify it - number of nerve endings? sensation tests?

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»Sky    978

I'm circumcised and glad that it happened. I wouldn't want the extra skin personally anyways.

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Matt Bishop    2377

Personally I feel that as long as you clean it, then there is no reason why you'd have to cut it off. Barring reasons of infections and such that have already happened of course. If the treatment is to remove the foreskin, then obviously go for it.

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"self-reported questionnaire"

that fails to control for the glaring problem that they have no adequate basis for comparison. people naturally tend to think their way is for the best through circular reasoning; it is an adaptive mechanism. The native englishman is glad he not a frenchman, the native frenchman is glad he is not an englishman. the reliability retest does nothing to address this either.

only "a few parts are less sensitive than the foreskin" - misleading. the loss of foreskin (along with shaft skin as doctors cannot accurately assess correlation between the amount of skin on a newborn and how much it would translate to on an adult, (Van Howe, 1997)) would affect the areas normally covered by it as well, which happen to be most of the areas listed above foreskin for "degree of sexual pleasure".

for circumcised guys, this is something you can try to get a sense of what you are missing.

1. fap without lube

2. when you were fapping, how much rubbing was there between the surface of your hand and the surface of your shaft? how much rubbing is there between the shaft skin and the erogenous tissue under the skin? for most there is more of the latter, this is the gliding mechanism, the primary mechanism by which pleasure was meant to be achieved.

3. brush your fingers lightly over the surface of your shaft skin, without applying enough pressure to slide the shaft skin over the tissue underneath. feel the difference? that's the difference the gliding action makes. that's why loose boxers chafe while running instead of feeling good.

4. in addition to specialized erogenous/sexual structures (frenar band, pheromone glands) circumcision removes a significant portion of the shaft skin. You can do the math on how that would affect the gliding action.

and for a quick and dirty popular assessment of how the foreskin affects sexual pleasure, check out urbandictionary

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+rei+    34506

did you seriously just dismiss a peer-edited scientific report and tell people to check out urbandictionary?

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Lord Vincent    25

I was never circumcised at birth because I was born in Canada, but I got circumcised here in the United States. This was at a young age so I'm not clear on all the concepts, so I might be missing some points. Anyways, I had severe Urinary Tract Infection, and it hurt really bad. This went on for a few days until we got it checked it by a doctor. He told us that he could prescribe some medication to help fight the infection, but he also told us that the chances of me contracting UTI again were high. Instead of having me endure more pain, my parents agreed to a circumcision, and ever since then I've been fine.

Mr. T, all your points about it being easier fap are interesting, but to be honest, I'd rather be compelled to masturbate with lubrication for pleasure than be at constant risk of Urinary Tract Infection. Circumcision is effective on cutting down the risk of diseases people can encounter in their lives. I feel it is truly justified.

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did you seriously just dismiss a peer-edited scientific report and tell people to check out urbandictionary?

no, i said "quick and dirty" as in people may want the tl;dr and what their peers think

here are plenty of peer-edited scientific reports for those who care to read them. inb4 "propaganda study"

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/103/3/686

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/abstract;jsessionid=71C180CDCEDAC2081924A42F2BC5D2F3.d02t01

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1998.00669.x/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13295637

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13645790

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800902

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.0830s1034.x/pdf

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/taylor2/

Speaking of propaganda, some pressure for it comes from circumcision advocates looking for medical justifications for what was once admittedly practiced as a punishment for masturbation, among other things. Even when looking at the studies cited by advocates, they are shoddily linked to their "conclusions" often with logical fallacies.

http://www.cirp.org/library/history/gollaher/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17512370

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I was never circumcised at birth because I was born in Canada, but I got circumcised here in the United States. This was at a young age so I'm not clear on all the concepts, so I might be missing some points. Anyways, I had severe Urinary Tract Infection, and it hurt really bad. This went on for a few days until we got it checked it by a doctor. He told us that he could prescribe some medication to help fight the infection, but he also told us that the chances of me contracting UTI again were high. Instead of having me endure more pain, my parents agreed to a circumcision, and ever since then I've been fine.

Mr. T, all your points about it being easier fap are interesting, but to be honest, I'd rather be compelled to masturbate with lubrication for pleasure than be at constant risk of Urinary Tract Infection. Circumcision is effective on cutting down the risk of diseases people can encounter in their lives. I feel it is truly justified.

i'm happy for you and have no question of the medical benefits of circumcision in some situations. but just because a treatment is beneficial for some doesn't make it beneficial for all. the majority of intact men who practice good hygiene do not have a higher rate of UTIs/STIs than circumcised.

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Wild Caniac    421

I wasn't circumsized as a kid, but i always feel i should have been and have been upset about it since birth. How should i feel about this?

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do some research, get some opinions, and make your decision - if all these newborns went through it you can too. there is also much less risk of excess skin removal.

Even if you wish you were circumcised at birth, you can be happy that you can make an informed choice in the matter. Anyone can choose to be circumcised, but no one can choose to be uncircumcised. You have the right to make decisions about your own body, the important thing is that you are well-informed and think carefully so you can make the right choice for yourself.

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Wild Caniac    421

What i was trying to say is should i feel different than most men, and how should i go about a girl's reaction if the next girl i fuck obviously isn't a virgin.

I've never had any infections, so i guess i take pretty good care of my dick, but i just always felt sexual experiences would be different. It wasn't when i lost my virginity, but i was only with one girl, so it's just something i wonder about.

I wouldn't want to get circumsized at my age now, it's something i'm not willing to waste money on. I just want to know opinions about how i should feel, i guess someone that isn't circumsized should have more of a understanding of what im trying to get at.

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I'm uncircumcised. The argument that you have a lower chance of getting UTIs/passing HPV with circumcision is valid; however, keeping it clean (takes 30 seconds a day) and practicing safe sex is a bigger factor in preventing those issues than getting circumcised. Going back to the OP: I do believe that parents should wait until a problem arises or until the child wants to remove the foreskin. I love my foreskin, but I can't say if I think life would be easier/better without it. I've never had health issues with it before b/c I practice good hygiene.

@ Jay - Girls don't mind the foreskin. Some of them like it more than others, but I've never had an issue with a girl that didn't like it.

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Wild Caniac    421

Yeah, i've heard stories that it's more pleasureable for females to be penetrated by an uncircumcised dick.

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A lot of it has to do with culture and what people are used to. In ancient greece, it was vulgar for the head of the penis to be exposed, because in nature that only happens during sexual arousal. Modern day, for girls who've only seen circumcised dicks, they might not know what to do with an uncircumcised one. In countries where circumcision isn't widespread, more women indicate a preference for intact males. Women who complained of chafing, vaginal dryness, etc found sex got significantly better after their partner went through foreskin restoration (a half-measure at best). A few girls swear that once they've had intact, they never want circumcised again (which would make you a relatively rare commodity on the american market)

But don't take my word for this, do your own research.

The thing that stands out to me most though, is that out of all the women who said they preferred circumcised over intact, by far the number one reason they cited was hygiene. I try to shower both before and after sex, imo women aren't so much concerned the shape of your dick as how clean it is.

some food for thought:

-Sex in most mammals was designed to be very pleasurable without lube.

-Certain glands on the penis of male mice routinely secrete various pheromones. While ovulating, the female mouse finds one of these pheromones IRRESISTIBLE. http://books.google.com/books?id=Gi6rIvx7Ni4C&pg=PA96&lpg=PA96&dq=mouse+pheromone+glands+penis&source=bl&ots=GH4zozYWQh&sig=H3V2j3PUL_XFBiQVfwD9tIny9PI&hl=en&ei=SkU-TefOHY66sQOi95TkAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

The analogous glands on the human penis are lost in circumcision. While we haven't proven any effect this has on human sexuality, you can do the math.

[edit]

>What i was trying to say is should i feel different than most men, and how should i go about a girl's reaction if the next girl i fuck obviously isn't a virgin.

I've never had any infections, so i guess i take pretty good care of my dick, but i just always felt sexual experiences would be different. It wasn't when i lost my virginity, but i was only with one girl, so it's just something i wonder about.

I wouldn't want to get circumsized at my age now, it's something i'm not willing to waste money on. I just want to know opinions about how i should feel, i guess someone that isn't circumsized should have more of a understanding of what im trying to get at.

Everyone should understand how their body works, and that can only be done by learning about it yourself. Imo there's plenty of reasons to be happy about being intact,

-does your head and shaft near the head chafe during running, sweating, etc (it's normally sheathed in the foreskin)? if not, be happy because a number of circumcised men suffer from this

-how much fapping pleasure do you derive from the foreskin? from what's covered by it?

-how much does your partner enjoy it? if she enjoys it more, she'll give you more and better sex - what is that worth to you?

but that's ultimately for you to decide, not your parents, doctor, or peers.

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for the girl's reaction, it really depends. if she makes fun of you for something out of your control, you should dump her anyways (unless u wanna hate fuck). If she's only had circumcised men tell her how you like it and she can learn lol. All the rules for good sex are still in effect - like with everything, ease it in. Remember you're having sex the way nature designed your organ to and once she gets over any "culture shock" she might have she'll probably realize this too.

There's a bunch of anecdotes people will share, just ask around. It's not scientific but what can you do?

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+rei+    34506

I haven't researched this point but this contradiction seems pretty apparent to me

On one hand you keep advocating safe sex as the best preventive measure, on the other you mention repeatedly how an advantage of not being circumsized is the additional lubrication provided. Wouldn't that be rendered moot by a condom?

I'm assuming you're uncut as a lot of your other points come across as hilarious to someone who is, especially the chafing thing and the assumption that circumcised men would require lube during sex

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»slick    4668

These are the AAP guidelines

Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision.

In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided.

This is the CPS statement

Circumcision is a “non-therapeutic” procedure, which means it is not medically necessary. Parents who decide to circumcise their newborns often do so for religious, social or cultural reasons. To help make the decision about circumcision, parents should have information about risks and benefits. It is helpful to speak with your baby’s doctor.

After reviewing the scientific evidence for and against circumcision, the CPS does not recommend routine circumcision for newborn boys. Many paediatricians no longer perform circumcisions.

This is the CPS review

http://www.cps.ca/english/statements/FN/fn96-01.htm

Discussion

Firstly, this is about elective infant circumcision. Stop bringing up examples of people that needed a circumcision for reason X. If someone needs a circ, they need a circ. Theres no debate in that whatsoever

It is known that the medical community has been extremely conservative about discrediting elective circumcision because they are worried about backlash from religious zealots.

But ya, it amazes me that it is still routinely done

It is an elective cosmetic surgery. The benefits do not outweigh the risks of the procedure. As far as I'm concerned, it is morally equivalent to giving your baby a nose job, ie it shouldnt be happening.

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»slick    4668

I wasn't circumsized as a kid, but i always feel i should have been and have been upset about it since birth. How should i feel about this?

There is nothing stopping you from having a circ right now

If you are legitimately angry at your parents for not having you circd as an infant, then, you are a retard

There are many reasons for people to be angry at their parents. Them deciding not to give you an unecessary surgical procedure as an infant is not one of them.

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Soul    7939

i got a mushroom top and im proud. down with the extra skin!

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Crutches    772

I'm circumcised and I've never needed lube for sex. Or masturbation for that matter.

And I've certainly never had chafing from running or sweating. What the fuck?

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rei/crutches: Circumcised men (and their partners) are more likely to experience chafing because they lose the layer of extra insulation, but YMMV as an individual; one person's being problem-free does not invalidate the problems of others in their group. The amount of skin removed also varies between procedures since there is no way to estimate how much infant skin corresponds to how much adult skin.

Chafing isn't the only thing either. To get an idea of the number of sensory receptors lost to circumcision, brush the palm of your hand, then brush the back of it. Even if you're having great sex, it could conceivably be even better.

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»slick    4668

I want to add one more comment before I'm done with this thread. I'm a pediatrician. I routinely have this conversation with parents often and with all due respect, I doubt any of you have ever had any influence on this decision unless you have children of your own. My professional stance has been in line with my regulating bodies. Again, if you somehow missed it, its:

There is no medical benefit to performing elective circumcision. Therefore, it is not a recommended procedure.

Despite that, there are certain instances where I've agreed with parents to go ahead with the circ. The situation is as follows. Parents are ambivalent about a circ. Their family, religion, and friends basically propose an ultimatum, either the child gets a circ or you are no longer part of our family/community.

In that case, you have to weigh all the pros and cons. Keep in mind that the infant is my ONLY concern. I'm a pediatrician, not a family counsellor

pro - its not necessary. Could be serious future reprocussions if society decides that this procedure is barbaric/ unacceptable / etc

cons - the parents lose a lot of support. That means less babysitters and caregivers, which means more stress on the parents and possibly less income. Loss of social outlets further increase stress and less social exposure for the infant can slow development.

Parental stress can lead to less quality time with the child, thereby reducing developmental progress, and can lead to separation which is extremely detrimental to the child.

So big picture, it can be more harmful for the child not to have the procedure than to have it. So yeah, there has actually been times that I recommended a circ. Its rare though. And it has to be a full stop ultimatum of "you're with us or against us"

If the grandparents suggest a circ (but would never disown the family) and the parents are ambivalent, I will tell them to do what they think is best completely ignoring the grandparents. Its their kid, their decision. At that point, when the parents hear that the medical community recommends against it, they will not proceed. I cannot remember any instance where they did proceed afterwards. Basically, when they come in ambivalant, they are basically asking me to make the decision for them, which I think is fine, considering it is a surgical procedure

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