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Muscular Black Mr. T

circumcision

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PowerCrazy    12

This is an honest, serious question, except for when it's specifically brought up to be discussed, does anyone who's been circ'd ever really cared? Unless this issue has been brought forth for discussion, I almost never think "Damn why was I given this procedure that has no actual medical benefit" or been having sex/masturbating and thought "I wish I was uncirc'd because this could feel potentially a lot better"

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»Barron    7987

im circumcised and it feels good

i haven't had any problems with chaffing and other shit.

people really chaff there?

i think it's dirty to have foreskin

my co-worker asked me if getting her baby circumcised was ok (she's due in may)

i said, well it's up to you, i think foreskin is dirty and im circumcised aswell. She said her bf and his family got all defensive about the question and she felt like she got attacked because she wanted her kid to get circumcised. I felt bad for her :l

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This is an honest, serious question, except for when it's specifically brought up to be discussed, does anyone who's been circ'd ever really cared? Unless this issue has been brought forth for discussion, I almost never think "Damn why was I given this procedure that has no actual medical benefit" or been having sex/masturbating and thought "I wish I was uncirc'd because this could feel potentially a lot better"

We leave a lot of things unquestioned out of habit. But once the issue's been brought up and pondered, there are actually a significant number of men who wish for an intact penis. If after you ponder these things and still don't think that, great - but you still owe it to yourself to ask these questions and understand your own body. "Don't know, don't care" is cheating yourself.

(NSFW)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frenulum_of_prepuce_of_penis

^ A bit of what you might be missing.

im circumcised and it feels good

i haven't had any problems with chaffing and other shit.

people really chaff there?

i think it's dirty to have foreskin

my co-worker asked me if getting her baby circumcised was ok (she's due in may)

i said, well it's up to you, i think foreskin is dirty and im circumcised aswell. She said her bf and his family got all defensive about the question and she felt like she got attacked because she wanted her kid to get circumcised. I felt bad for her :l

1. Some people do chafe there. Rub your finger repeatedly on your skin so that skin brushes skin. You can imagine that after a while it might chafe. Now press down harder and rub so that finger skin isn't rubbing arm skin, rather it's arm skin gliding up and down on the arm "meat." This is a rough approximation of how foreskin reduces chafing.

2. Merely "thinking" a foreskin is dirty doesn't cut it, especially when you're making permanent decisions about another person's body (i'm starting to see what Atem is getting at when he challenges various opinions). Doing your homework, consulting medical/anatomy books, are doubly important when you don't have even your own foreskin experience to work off of. The foreskin, like any other part of the body, is only dirty if you don't wash it.

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PowerCrazy    12

Not really, does my life REALLY change because I was circumcised? No, not at all.

Sex still feels good, they didn't accidentally cut too much off, nobody has ever changed their opinion of me because I was circ'd, so what does it really matter?

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I am sure foreplay has a much larger role in lubrication than foreskin.

I am circumcised but I don't have strong feelings about it either way. In a culture that is primarily circumcised I am glad to be in the majority. Some girls are indifferent to foreskin, a few prefer it but I am sure more prefer circumcised than prefer foreskin in the United States. This not being due to any physiological reason but simply culture.

The case for circumcision (Less likely transmission of STI, ease of cleaning) and the case against it (decreased sensitivity) seems like one is medically based and the other hedonistic.

How old is a child when you can expect them to responsibly clean themselves? Mom and Dad shouldn't be cleaning a 5 year olds penis, but I am skeptical that a 5 year old is doing the best job on their own.

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Pediatrics recommends parents to teach their child how to properly clean themselves at a young age. Your parents probably bathed you until you demonstrated you could bathe yourself satisfactorily, just like they did with potty training, wiping your ass until you showed you could wipe it yourself. How old were you then? Were you irresponsible afterwards and got yourself an anal infection from not wiping? Washing the foreskin is easily within the capability of a 5-yo. During potty training, daddy teaches junior to retract the foreskin when peeing, retracting the foreskin to wash under it is no different and no less difficult. There's even an old joke related to this which anecdotally illustrates how great having an intact penis is. And as Slick pointed out the medical case for it is negligible at best, and certainly no justification for involuntary surgery.

The cultural argument has no intrinsic value as it is based on circular thinking. If an intact guy gets made fun of/dispreferenced in a largely circumcised society, it's no different from a circumcised guy getting made fun of/dispreferenced in a largely intact society, and neither has any bearing on the merits of the practice. As Atem often says, "some opinions are based on garbage."

If having 100% of your penis instead of an artificially nerfed one (circumcision removes over half the skin on your penis, including the most erogenous parts) is hedonism, :S When robbery happens enough it becomes the new normal - U.S. is one of the few countries that practices routine circumcision...to the rest of the world we're the abnormal ones. If you want to accept that it's ultimately your call, not mine - but from where I'm standing, you've been robbed bro.

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+rei+    34657

WAAAH DEY RAPED UR CONCENT, JUST LIKE WHEN THEY TOOK YOUR TONSILS OUT.

Seriously, piss up a rope.

slick summed it up perfectly, it's not a recommended procedure any more, but looking at it as some grand larceny is just outright wrong. Saying there are no benefits to either side is an inaccuracy.

The cultural argument has no intrinsic value as it is based on circular thinking. If an intact guy gets made fun of/dispreferenced in a largely circumcised society, it's no different from a circumcised guy getting made fun of/dispreferenced in a largely intact society, and neither has any bearing on the merits of the practice. As Atem often says, "some opinions are based on garbage."

But aren't you basing your entire argument off of a moral perspective that it's wrong to have this taken without consent but morals are just as intrinsically subjective/relative to your environment? I mean, its a good thing your argument wasn't riding off of once subjective opinion ri- oh wait.

and couldn't you look at your anti-circumcision bent as just as much affirmation bias? Thats nice that you think circumsized individuals have been robbed. I'm sure they all hate having sex bacause of that. Also please source the "over half" thing, I mean it's not like I provided statistics counterproving that that you never addressed or anything.

If having 100% of your penis instead of an artificially nerfed one (circumcision removes over half the skin on your penis, including the most erogenous parts) is hedonism, When robbery happens enough it becomes the new normal - U.S. is one of the few countries that practices routine circumcision...to the rest of the world we're the abnormal ones. If you want to accept that it's ultimately your call, not mine - but from where I'm standing, you've been robbed bro.

The U.S is one of the only countries to accept firearms in the homes of its citizens. See how you need to be more careful with your language?

No disparity to slick but the HPV research was published less than four months ago, so its less negligable that expected. And even then, you confuse "advised against" with "NEVER EVER DO IT HORRIBLE RAPE THEFT" which is the position you are very evidently trying to bring across.

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It may not be as big as a grand larceny, but something was still taken without your consent, even if you don't want to press charges so to speak. Even outside of sex, having all that skin makes your daily faps/handjobs a lot better and no guy should be deprived of that. But I digress.

>But aren't you basing your entire argument off of a moral perspective that it's wrong to have this taken without consent but morals are just as intrinsically subjective/relative to your environment? I mean, its a good thing your argument wasn't riding off of once subjective opinion ri- oh wait. <

Short answer, no. I made the point about culture because beauty, sexual/social preference etc is subjective. But morals are not so subjective, there are some things that are inherently immoral, such as foot-binding in Asia. As immoral as it was, they still considered it beautiful, and as Atem would say that idea of "beauty" thus means nothing. Likewise "circumcised looks better" or "intact looks better" both hold no weight. I don't care to get into the big philosophical debate of "there is/is no such thing as intrinsic moral value" here but that can go in another thread. As it stands, religious/cultural factors are taking precedent over moral/medical sense and I'm not cool with that. Someone (tacooo?) said female circumcision is a barbaric way of showing male dominance over females, well it's a little similar here.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/abstract/80/2/215

How does American RKBA relate to this? It's a cultural thing on the surface (and to the extent it is cultural, it is worthless) but deeper down it is based off moral ideas.

>and couldn't you look at your anti-circumcision bent as just as much affirmation bias? Thats nice that you think circumsized individuals have been robbed. I'm sure they all hate having sex bacause of that. Also please source the "over half" thing, I mean it's not like I provided statistics counterproving that that you never addressed or anything. <

Uhh, same applies to you? Where did I say they hate having sex? I said sex (and masturbation) is good for them - it's just that it could be better, but that's something they'd never get to experience (how much or how little they care, which seems to be the case, is their call). Your argument is essentially "it's good enough for me" - but what about those for whom that isn't the case?

Amount of skin removed varies between procedures and there's not much scientific study in this area, if you want to discredit me on this i concede. But informally, look at it this way: the surgery draws a length of shaft skin over the head of the penis and cuts it off there, leaving a "gap" to grow back into (to ensure tightness). Consider on a newborn the head of the penis comprises roughly a third of total penis length, and foreskin is folded up.

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»Logic    2033

The other day my girlfriend gave me a bj, taking it out of the zipper of my pants,caught my foreskin in the zipper putting it back, it hurt like a bitch and scabbed over shortly after.

ruined my day.

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»Logic    2033

rei/crutches: Circumcised men (and their partners) are more likely to experience chafing because they lose the layer of extra insulation, but YMMV as an individual; one person's being problem-free does not invalidate the problems of others in their group. The amount of skin removed also varies between procedures since there is no way to estimate how much infant skin corresponds to how much adult skin.

Chafing isn't the only thing either. To get an idea of the number of sensory receptors lost to circumcision, brush the palm of your hand, then brush the back of it. Even if you're having great sex, it could conceivably be even better.

Accurate point. If I pull the skin back before a bait I last significantly longer.

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Absolute    1396

Sorry if someone already asked but What is the difference between a Circumsized Vagina and a non-circumsized vagina

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+rei+    34657

they removed the clitoris.

Totally same thing amirite

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»Pharaoh Atem    15769

This thread is still going on. I am disappoint, sons.

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»Ryu    2416

i don't know if you guys have access to google images like i do, but a female circumcision done the right way looks beautiful.

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Lets not overlook the fact a child cannot legally consent to -anything-; under your reasoning breastfeeding is battery

LOL

really though, does it matter? i don't really think it makes a difference either way. =/

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Genoseid    102

they removed the clitoris.

Totally same thing amirite

I wouldn't consider the removal of the clitoris a circumcision, but more like genital mutilation(six and one, eh?).

I have seen a different type of female circumcision though. They remove, or drastically cut down, the labia minora I believe. I think that might be in the same vein as what we males know as a circumcision?

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fake    4788

i was reading on another message board foreskins restorable by taping your dick

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they removed the clitoris.

Totally same thing amirite

I wouldn't consider the removal of the clitoris a circumcision, but more like genital mutilation(six and one, eh?).

I have seen a different type of female circumcision though. They remove, or drastically cut down, the labia minora I believe. I think that might be in the same vein as what we males know as a circumcision?

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»slick    4668

No disparity to slick but the HPV research was published less than four months ago, so its less negligable that expected. And even then, you confuse "advised against" with "NEVER EVER DO IT HORRIBLE RAPE THEFT" which is the position you are very evidently trying to bring across.

I am aware of the latest research and the benefit still does not out weigh the risks

If anything, I can argue that the introduction of Gardasil as part of the standard vaccine protocol actually decreases the benefits of circ and therefore, it is far less recommended to do it for medical reasons

I'm not sure what you mean by the second part. Circs are medically "not recommended". Thats the official stance. I personally would never do it again (yes I have circed once before, part of training, dont why though) because I'm honestly afraid that a change of social attitudes could lead to future problems for any physicians doing this.

Bottom line is, its a cosmetic procedure. Cosmetic procedures on children (who cannot give their own consent obviously) should be reserved for serious congenital anomalies. Having foreskin is not a congenital anomaly.

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Absolute    1396

i was reading on another message board foreskins restorable by taping your dick

Fuck you asshole!

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»slick    4668

aren't parents just as much to blame as physicians?

In theory, moreso, since they are the active decision maker. But parents don't have millions of dollars of legal insurance, so you can take a guess on who the "victim" will be coming after. There has been precedence where a kid sues the dr. after stupid parents demand a doctor do something unadvised, because the doctor "was supposed to know better and refuse the procedure".

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Shaman    531

I was circumcised and when I was little (5-10) I constantly had to adjust my penis because it felt uncomfortable. Now I don't have this discomfort anymore, but I can't help but wondering if that discomfort was caused by the circumcision.

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