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Evolzar Rabbit - Discussion

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fractal    2488
I wouldn't play Avarice in D-Fissure builds, and I feel those are superior to Maxx builds. "C" is a powerful card that can lead to overwhelmingly powerful hands. The prerequisite for that, however, is playing cards that you can capitalize on. I don't feel this Deck has those cards, like Agents, Plants, and Dark World. There is also the inherent risk that this Deck has when it comes to drawing multiple cards: drawing vanillas and extra Jurracs. You will lose games against baddies because you end up with clogged hands of dead cards and lack power plays. D-Fissure also provides game 1 advantages over Plants and Dark World, and to an extent, Agents. You neutralize counter cards like Maxx, Veiler, Honest, and Herald, while shutting out recurring Tuners and support monsters.

I also have a somewhat vehement dislike for Gold Sarc. The supposed nut hand of Sarc -> Leviair sucks if your opponent does have the "C". The other problem is that it's a 2-turn investment in a Deck that aims to assume control as early as possible. While this is one way to that, the alternative cards for Sarc are largely poor targets should you have your Rabbit already. As PsychoDuler points out, it's a poor mid-late game card.

That said, I think a build maining Vanity's Emptiness and Macro could be viable, and should be looked into. Backed by Laggia and/or Dolkka could provide a strong lock.

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fractal    2488
Edit: Someone fuck me in the ass. Edited by DemonGodAsura

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Steve Wainman    1350
[quote name='DemonGodAsura' timestamp='1323410212' post='3048479']
I wouldn't play Avarice in D-Fissure builds, and I feel those are superior to Maxx builds. "C" is a powerful card that can lead to overwhelmingly powerful hands. The prerequisite for that, however, is playing cards that you can capitalize on. I don't feel this Deck has those cards, like Agents, Plants, and Dark World. There is also the inherent risk that this Deck has when it comes to drawing multiple cards: drawing vanillas and extra Jurracs. You will lose games against baddies because you end up with clogged hands of dead cards and lack power plays. D-Fissure also provides game 1 advantages over Plants and Dark World, and to an extent, Agents. You neutralize counter cards like Maxx, Veiler, Honest, and Herald, while shutting out recurring Tuners and support monsters.

I also have a somewhat vehement dislike for Gold Sarc. The supposed nut hand of Sarc -> Leviair sucks if your opponent does have the "C". The other problem is that it's a 2-turn investment in a Deck that aims to assume control as early as possible. While this is one way to that, the alternative cards for Sarc are largely poor targets should you have your Rabbit already. As PsychoDuler points out, it's a poor mid-late game card.

That said, I think a build maining Vanity's Emptiness and Macro could be viable, and should be looked into. Backed by Laggia and/or Dolkka could provide a strong lock.
[/quote]
[quote name='DemonGodAsura' timestamp='1323410289' post='3048481']
[quote name='that marcus kid' timestamp='1323409389' post='3048475']
can laggia negate flip summons? it doesnt say it can on the card so id say no but i just wanted to confirm
[/quote]

Yes.
[/quote]

I didn't even read your 1st post because you don't play this deck. No you cannot negate flip summons.
  • Upvote 3

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fractal    2488
[quote name='dgz' timestamp='1323410662' post='3048485']
[quote name='DemonGodAsura' timestamp='1323410212' post='3048479']
I wouldn't play Avarice in D-Fissure builds, and I feel those are superior to Maxx builds. "C" is a powerful card that can lead to overwhelmingly powerful hands. The prerequisite for that, however, is playing cards that you can capitalize on. I don't feel this Deck has those cards, like Agents, Plants, and Dark World. There is also the inherent risk that this Deck has when it comes to drawing multiple cards: drawing vanillas and extra Jurracs. You will lose games against baddies because you end up with clogged hands of dead cards and lack power plays. D-Fissure also provides game 1 advantages over Plants and Dark World, and to an extent, Agents. You neutralize counter cards like Maxx, Veiler, Honest, and Herald, while shutting out recurring Tuners and support monsters.

I also have a somewhat vehement dislike for Gold Sarc. The supposed nut hand of Sarc -> Leviair sucks if your opponent does have the "C". The other problem is that it's a 2-turn investment in a Deck that aims to assume control as early as possible. While this is one way to that, the alternative cards for Sarc are largely poor targets should you have your Rabbit already. As PsychoDuler points out, it's a poor mid-late game card.

That said, I think a build maining Vanity's Emptiness and Macro could be viable, and should be looked into. Backed by Laggia and/or Dolkka could provide a strong lock.
[/quote]
[quote name='DemonGodAsura' timestamp='1323410289' post='3048481']
[quote name='that marcus kid' timestamp='1323409389' post='3048475']
can laggia negate flip summons? it doesnt say it can on the card so id say no but i just wanted to confirm
[/quote]

Yes.
[/quote]

I didn't even read your 1st post because you don't play this deck. No you cannot negate flip summons.
[/quote]

Yeah, haven't played the Deck in a while. Didn't bother checking the card. Doesn't mean any of my points aren't valid.

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Try this guys.


[quote]
[u]Dimensional Dino Rabbit (41):[/u]


[color=#ffa500][u]Monsters (17):[/u][/color]
[color=#ffa500]3 Sabersaurus[/color]
[color=#ffa500]3 Kabazaul[/color]
[color=#ffa500]3 Rescue Rabbit[/color]
[color=#ffa500]3 Tour Guide From the Underworld[/color]
[color=#ffa500]3 Jurrac Guaiba[/color]
[color=#ffa500]1 Sangan[/color]
[color=#ffa500]1 Neo-Spacian Grand Mole[/color]

[color=#00ff00][u]Spells (13):[/u][/color]
[color=#00ff00]3 Forbidden Lance[/color]
[color=#00ff00]2 Dimensional Fissure[/color]
[color=#00ff00]2 Gold Sarcophagus[/color]
[color=#00ff00]2 Smashing Ground[/color]
[color=#00ff00]2 Mystical Space Typhoon[/color]
[color=#00ff00]1 Dark Hole[/color]
[color=#00ff00]1 Book of Moon[/color]

[color=#800080][u]Traps (11):[/u][/color]
[color=#800080]2 Solemn Warning[/color]
[color=#800080]2 Bottomless Trap Hole[/color]
[color=#800080]2 Dimensional Prison[/color]
[color=#800080]1 Solemn Judgment[/color]
[color=#800080]1 Torrential Tribute[/color]
[color=#800080]1 Trap Dustshoot[/color]
[color=#800080]1 Mirror Force[/color]
[color=#800080]1 Starlight Road[/color]

[color=#ffffff][u]Extra Deck (15):[/u][/color]
[color=#ffffff]1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon[/color]
[color=#ffffff]1 Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier[/color]
[color=#ffffff]2 Stardust Dragon[/color]
[color=#ffffff]1 Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier[/color]
[color=#ffffff]2 Leviair the Sea Dragon[/color]
[color=#ffffff]1 Number 17: Leviathan Dragon[/color]
[color=#ffffff]1 Wind-Up Zenmaines[/color]
[color=#ffffff]2 Evolzar Dolkka[/color]
[color=#ffffff]2 Evolzar Laggia[/color]
[color=#ffffff]2 Number 39: Utopia[/color]

[color=#ff0000][u]Side Deck:[/u][/color]
[color=#ff0000]2 Cyber Dragon[/color]
[color=#ff0000]2 Thunder King Rai-Oh[/color]
[color=#ff0000]2 Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo[/color]
[color=#ff0000]1 Doomcaliber Knight[/color]
[color=#ff0000]2 Leeching the Light[/color]
[color=#ff0000]1 Dimensional Fissure[/color]
[color=#ff0000]1 Smashing Ground[/color]
[color=#ff0000]1 Mystical Space Typhoon[/color]
[color=#ff0000]2 Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror[/color]
[color=#ff0000]1 Starlight Road[/color]
[/quote]

This gave me a perfect record.

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V3lvetroses    4
I won my locals yesterday with this:


Monsters: 19
3x Rescue Rabbit
3x Tour Guide From The Underworld
3x Kabazauls
3x Sabersaurus
3x Thunder King Rai-oh
2x Maxx "C"
1x Gorz, The Emissary Of Darkness
1x Sangan

Spells: 12
2x Forbidden Lance
2x Mystical Space Typhoon
2x Smashing Ground
1x Book Of Moon
1x Dark Hole
1x Gold Sarcophagus
1x Heavy Storm
1x Monster Reborn
1x Pot Of Avarice

Traps: 10
3x Dimensional Prison
2x Solemn Warning
1x Mirror Force
1x Solemn Judgment
1x Starlight Road
1x Torrential Tribute
1x Trap Dustshoot

Extra: 15
2x Leviar The Sea Dragon
1x Number 17: Leviathan Dragon
1x Wind-up Zenmaines
2x Evolzar Dollka
2x Evolzar Laggia
2x Number 39: Utopia
1x Chimeratech Fortress Dragon
1x Ally Of Justice Catastor
1x Brionac, Dragon Of The Ice Barrier
1x Stardust Dragon
1x Trishula, Dragon Of The Ice Barrier

Side: 15
2x Cyber Dragon
2x Spirit Reaper
2x Leeching The Light
1x Mystical Space Typhoon
1x Smashing Ground
2x Bottomless Trap Hole
2x Dust Tornado
2x Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
1x Debunk

I was considering dropping the Gorz for a Grand-Mole

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E-Van    20
Would people suggest running DImensional Fissure Variant, or one without it?

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[quote name='victor' timestamp='1322632209' post='3041642']
when every deck you face is playing Maxx C or Thunder King Raioh, not to mention the whole host of other reasons to play DFissure, I thinking maining DFissure gives you too great a G1 edge vs Agents/Plants/DW.

I mean you know they are going to side in MST to make inroads into your backrow, so DFissure will have reduced impact.

They will side in monster removal and the slots you use for DFissure could be better utilized for Starlight Road vs BTH or MBAAS or something.

You also need to bring in removal to take down Spirit Reaper, Ryko, Snowman Eater, wtv. so you need space for that as well.

And when they side in general utility cards like Cyber Dragon, what use is DFissure against that?

[u][b]DFissure is best G1 and its advantages diminish as other concerns arise.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

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E-Van    20
Claudio had a quick question for you, are you still testing enemy controller out in your build? is there a bigger upside to this then playing Lance etc.

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Enemy Controller can sometimes be your only winning condition like take control of a big monster and go for game. I would run 1 at least but i'm not sure how good forbidden lance is. Currently i haven't tested Rabbit too much because it has some times when the draws are pretty horrible. I like Guaiba since it's the 1-card Exceed and i would like to play a Rabbit version with only 3 Sabersaurus but that's pretty hard to get. But i consider the deck still as very good because of the broken opening with Laggia so i started to build a lot of decks that have a good Rabbit matchup.

Like there are so many playable decks atm that it's hard to decide what you want to play ...
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E-Van    20
Yeah i know that feeling all to well atm my self. Im trying to test all the different versions of the deck just to see it from many perspectives, so any insight is definately helpful. I find Darkworld/ Agents to be the worst matchups imo. Grapha effects nuking shit, and big monsters kinda shit all over laggias and dolkas etc.

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»victor    6399
To follow up on my earlier quoted thoughts regarding DFissure, it's actually a bit more nuanced than that.

DFissure shines when you're going first whereas Maxx C shines when you're going second.

Opening DFissure and going 1st is amazing because it lets you go off without fear of Maxx C and MST.

Opening Maxx C or Effect Veiler, and going 2nd is great because you are still able to disrupt, stop [i]them[/i] from going off.

Rabbit.dek struggles when they are all aggressive and a hand trap play puts an end to that. Evolzars don't break setups that are already established, they disrupt card interactions before they begin.

Siding one or the other in matters a great deal on whether you are going 1st/2nd.

Though it should be said, they will side MST for your backrow, not Debunk...

---------------

Also if you play Enemy Controller, it works best with cards like Tour Guide or Deep Sea Diva, which generate +1s, that you leverage into Econ plays.

C and Veiler mitigate those cards, and coincidentally, DFissure counters them.

In other words, play DFissure if you are going to playing Econ.
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E-Van    20
This is the build im currently testing, any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

Monsters(17)
3x Guiaba
3x Sabersarus
3x Kazabalus
3x Rescue Rabitt
3x Tour Guide from the Underworld
1x Sangan
1x Neo Spacian Grand Mole

Spells(14)
3x Dimensional Fissure
1x Gold Sarcophagus
1x Heavy Storm
1x Monster Reborn
1x Dark Hole
2x Mystical Space Typhoon
1x Book of Moon
1x Enemy Controller
2x Smashing Ground
1x Forbidden Lance

Traps(9)
2x Solemn Warning
3x Dimension Prison
1x Trap Dustshoot
1x Solemn Judgement
1x Torrential Tribute
1x Starlight Road( not entirely sure on this but seems liek it wold be really good against the mass removal that could wreck your board, could be replaced though)

Side is kinda a rough draft could be worked on, but im looking for suggestions on it. Ive been destroying plants and dark world, major issue is agents that im concerned with i split my series against them 3-3 and if they resolve big monster boards etc then they kind destroy me unless i can push through. Krystia is a bitch.

Sidedeck(15)
3x Maxx C
1x Effect Veiler
1x Mystical Space Typhoon
1x Mind Control
2x Bottomless Trap Hole
3x Thunder King Rai-oh
2x Cyber Dragon
1x Chimeratech Overdragon
1x Gorz, Emissary of Darkness

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E-Van    20
There are times where that happens but the pros out weight the cons, but i do see your point.

Im open to any and all suggestions because I have alot of testing to do before a regionals coming up, and I need to decide between this and plants.( I know there are other options but i feel like these are the two best decks.)

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»victor    6399
I'm actually considering something like 2 DFissure and 1 Maxx C mained.

The logic of playing 2 is you don't want to it to be 1-of, you want to see it often, but you don't want 3 for it to be dead and clump.

To Rabbit's advantage, it doesn't rely on DFissure to execute its plays and so the anti-meta is just a bonus. Though other decks have drawpower or selective search (Duality) to mitigate playing less than 3 copies of a card, the 3rd copy isn't a must in here.

In DFissure's case it's a preventative measure and additional copies don't overlap.

Maxx C as a 1 of is really nice because once Plants break through a DFissure, they can explode and you have Maxx C waiting in the wings.

Because you don't play TK Raioh, you don't have any other major conflicts.

Also if you go 2nd and open it first, all the better. Also, forcing them to Leviathan over Maxx C to beat an Evolzar, is neat.

G2 and G3, you would sidedeck accordingly whether you were going first or second...

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E-Van    20
Thanks, that actually makes alot of sense. I was thinking of siding into more of stun type deck with doom cals etc.

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+scuzzlebutt    23567
the thing about d fissure being a dead draw is a stupid argument to make in a deck like this. this is a combo deck that seeks to win in the first turns of the game, if you are reduced to topdecking you're gonna lose regardless of whether or not you run fissure. the deck should be built to just draw the most god hands of 6 cards, and fissure is a third of the best play this deck can make on turn 1.
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Rabbit is a Combo Deck?... Sure broh.

Rabbit is a Control Deck.


Open with TGU, Gold Sarc and DFissure yes, I think is the best Turn 1 hand... but if you just have DFissure in the Field, believe me, you don't like to draw the other two.
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Axle    1217
what

dark world can never do anything without 2 cards used together

Is that you Ashton? Where are the cameras? Did I get punk'd?
  • Upvote 5

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Feb    34
[quote name='Ace of Spades' timestamp='1323656057' post='3050455']
Oh yes... you play Dw with Morphin Jar and Card Destruction...

Do anything with 2 cards doesn't make a Combo Deck.
[/quote]

It's only 2 cards out of 40 lol.

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