InfusionsCap

Chain Burn - Discussion

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[center][b][i][u]CHAIN BURN[/u][/i][/b][/center]

[u][i][b]Analysis[/b][/i][/u]

[u]Burn-[/u]A generic classification used to describe a deck whose primary win condition is the reduction of the opponents life points but this goal is not achieved through battle but rather through the use of spells, traps and effects that inflict damage to the opponent.

[u]Chain Burn-[/u]A variation on a burn strategy in which spells and traps are used to deal damage to your opponent in addition to spell and trap cards that gain additional effects when activated at various links within a chain. This variation is so named for the various cards in the deck with such effects, including one of the centerpiece cards of the strategy; Chain Strike.

[u][i][b]Overview[/b][/i][/u]

Chain Burn is currently the most commonly played variation on a burn strategy. The speed at which the deck can function is a big advantage for the archtype, and the ability to play three copies of almost every card in the deck (two copies in some cases) increases the consistency level of the deck.

[b][i][u]Advantages[/u][/i][/b]
[list]
[*]This deck is a fast approach to dueling, with an extremely strong hand ending the game as early as the second turn, but usually on the third turn of the game.
[*]Most of the cards in the deck have no limitation with the exception of just a few with which two copies are still allowed.
[*]The deck is very hard to side against. Many of the cards that are typically side decked in the modern meta have little to no interaction with the archtype in any way and anti-meta builds don't really counter this strategy in any conceivable way.
[*]A lack of typical aggression makes many commonly played cards in the game total dead draws, such as Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, Solemn Warning and Dimensional Prison just to name a few.
[*]Other cards are less than optimal against this type of approach. The speed at which life points are being drained could make something like Solemn Judgment far to risky to activate, while even a powerful card like Heavy Storm loses steam against this variation due to an overwhelming percentage of the cards that are set are chainable options.
[/list]

[b][i][u]Disadvantages[/u][/i][/b]
[list]
[*]As with any combo deck, going second can be a bit problematic. Losing early chainable burn cards to end phase activations of Mystical Space Typhoon is an example of a loss of not only resources but the necessary early-game momentum this deck needs to function at an optimal level.
[*]A lack of typical card choices is another issue. Many of the more common options for defense don't work quite as well in this deck as they do in others. There are alternative approaches however.
[*]The draws can still be a little awkward and clunky. Even with the ability to run multiple copies of virtually every card in the deck the flow is still not as smooth as one might expect. The deck does have issues top decking well if their spells and traps are destroyed before they can be activated or if a crucial chain is disrupted at an inopportune time in the duel.
[*]Anyone who happens to be siding Royal Decree right now is almost guaranteed to win if the draw into it post board. Fortunately for this deck Royal Decree is not really seeing much play at the moment.
[/list]

[b][i][u]SAMPLE DECKLIST[/u][/i][/b]

Monsters (5)

1 Morphing Jar
3 Spirit Reaper
1 Marshmallon

Spells (17)

3 Pot of Duality
2 Chain Strike
3 Meteor of Destruction
3 Tremendous Fire
3 Thunder Short
3 Poison of the Old Man

Traps (18)

2 Ojama Trio
3 Secret Barrel
3 Just Desserts
1 Ceasefire
3 Reckless Greed
3 Accumulated Fortune
3 Legacy of Yata

[b][i][u]GENERALIZED DISCUSSION[/u][/i][/b]

[b][u]MONSTERS[/u][/b]

Spirit Reaper and Marshmallon are obvious includes to this deck. They provide the only means of defense the deck really has, and fortunately Marshamllon has a burn effect to boot.

Morphing Jar is a solid choice for this deck. In a meta where Dark World is a big contender Morphing Jar is up for debate as a main decked choice but resolving it against any archtype other than Dark World can usually lead to a blowout victory for this deck as it is simply too much burn damage too fast for virtually any other deck in the format to outpace it without a very lucky draw.

[i]Other possible monster options...[/i]

[i]Des Koala[/i]
[i]Stealth Bird[/i]
[i]Fire Trooper[/i]

Although those monsters can be placed in this deck and be thematic support many players find them a bit too slow and unreliable for the Chain Burn variation.

[b][u]SPELLS[/u][/b]

Chain Strike is obviously the centerpiece of the deck. Activating it on the fifth link of a chain with Accumulated Fortune on link four is not uncommon for this deck and it deals a massive amount of damage while keeping your resources up.

Tremendous Fire and Meteor of Destruction are solid options. While they are not chainable cards, 1000LP of damage straight to the dome is a sizable amount and can help the deck get all the damage across before you run out of cards to play.

Poison of the Old Man is an extremely good option for the deck. Dealing the damage is usually the effect you will choose to activate, but on rare occasions gaining the life points back may come into play. Above all, it's another chainable card that deals damage.

Thunder Short is a recent addition to the game. It's essentially a spell version of Just Desserts but it does 100 damage less per monster. This is another card that takes advantage of Ojama Trio which is without a doubt one of the most important cards in the deck.

Pot of Duality is obviously strong in a combo based deck that does no special summoning. The ability to grab Ojama Trio to support other burn cards you have or an Accumulated Fortune when you have enough other cards to chain with it is absolutely amazing and Duality gives this deck another means of consistency.

[b][u]TRAPS[/u][/b]

Ojama Trio is a major player in the success of this deck. Not only does it place extra monsters on the field for additional damage with effects like Just Desserts, Secret Barrel and Thunder Short, it also clogs up an opponents field which can slow them down quite a bit and give you the extra turn this deck needs to seal the deal. Syncro summoning is usually the way an opponent will escape from Ojama Trio without receiving damage.

Just Desserts and Secret Barrel are good for obvious reasons. They have the potential to deal quite a bit of damage with each activation, especially if you used Ojama Trio or in the case of Secret Barrel it is the first couple of turns of the game. Once again, chainable effects make the world go round when it comes to this deck.

Reckless Greed and Accumulated Fortune are automatic includes for the deck. Drawing additional cards is never a bad thing, and these two cards are some of the best options for making it happen while accelerating your chain link count for the requirement to activate Accumulated Fortune or make a big move with Chain Strike.

Legacy of Yata is basically just another draw option. It is simply in here to help you cycle through cards and build the chain link count. While it is a minor difference that may never come up it is interesting to note that a spirit monster (Kinka-Byo) is seeing some play in the Mystic Piper deck right now. Basically all this means is that while Jar of Greed is still a fine choice and certainly a playable option in this deck, a player should max on Legacy of Yata before playing any copies of Jar of Greed just on the off chance that you get to turn it into a Pot of Greed against anyone playing a spirit monster.

Ceasefire is essentially another form of Just Desserts that you can pad a little bit with your own Spirit Reaper or Marshmallon sitting on the field. One nice thing about Ceasefire is the ability to disrupt your opponents effects with it, such as Ryko, Lightsworn Hunter for example, provided of course you activate it while the monster is still set. Once again the analysis is simple, chainable card, burn option, slight disruption.

[i]Other possible trap options...[/i]

[i]Jar of Greed[/i]
[i]Fire Darts[/i]
[i]Magic Cylinder[/i]

Fire Darts and Jar of Greed are fine choices for the deck but neither of them are required for the deck to be successful. They are essentially additional options as single or double copy support if the pilot feels the deck is in need of a little extra burn or a little extra draw power. Magic Cylinder is a nice card, the defense and massive amount of damage it can deal are certainly something to consider, but its lack of chainability works against it in this archtype and many players choose to avoid it for that reason, although I have seen it played as a single copy in a Chain Burn build a time or two.

[b][i][u]RECAP AND WRAP-UP[/u][/i][/b]

That pretty much covers all the basics. Many Chain Burn builds are quite similar, usually having only a few cards difference between them. These are some of the most powerful and speedy burn cards in the game right now. The nice thing about combo decks however is that there is always room for innovation. New ideas keep the archtype evolving and new card releases offer additional support and boosts of power to an already existing archtype. I believe that is what we are seeing with Chain Burn in the modern meta coupled with its ability to dodge most conventional hate tactics due to how different of an approach it is to the game from many of the decks that are front runners in the current meta such as Plants, Agents and Dark World. So where will the archtype go from here? Will Chain Burn become a meta mainstay until a new list is released, or are we dealing with hype right now due to surprise factor? :Let the discussion begin.
10

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shouldnt you put jar of greed in the sample decklist? you need the draw cards to bait out problem cards like mst, grapha, lyla, storm, etc; empathizing how game rules & mechanics influence this deck should be important in here, since you could either use the rules to your advantage or easily lose to them if you know what im saying. tremendous fire is also horrible in this and thunder shot serves its purpose a thousand times better, you want cards that chain to another because thats one way youre gonna get advantage from chain cards and make them live

nice article alto
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If a chain burns in an empty event hall and no one plays MST, does it really win games?

(subbing)
-1

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Maxx C, Fader, and Lava Golem are also considerable monsters
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[quote name='shamay' timestamp='1320804951' post='3026031']
shouldnt you put jar of greed in the sample decklist? you need the draw cards to bait out problem cards like mst, grapha, lyla, storm, etc; empathizing how game rules & mechanics influence this deck should be important in here, since you could either use the rules to your advantage or easily lose to them if you know what im saying. tremendous fire is also horrible in this and thunder shot serves its purpose a thousand times better, you want cards that chain to another because thats one way youre gonna get advantage from chain cards and make them live

nice article alto
[/quote]Jar of Greed is mentioned as an option. The sample list is what I personally have been messing around with on DN. I have been having pretty good results with it so far.
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good write up, man. I saw a typo somewhere, but I forget where :(

RE: the deck, i think the first time it wins, it will never win again b/c burn is so easily sided against. But someone should sack up and take it to an event. They'll T32.
-2

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[quote name='byakk' timestamp='1320805553' post='3026041']
Maxx C, Fader, and Lava Golem are also considerable monsters
[/quote]I agree that those are all playable options, but to be completely honest with you I find that they all work better as side deck options.
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What benefits does running Spirit Reaper over Arcana Force 0 - The Fool have?

You should run a mix of Legacy of Yata and Jar of Greed instead of just 3 Legacy, because you can't use the same name in the chain twice when trying to activate Accumulated Fortune or Chain Strike.
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I played this at Toronto. Maxx "C" was my mvp all day. Not only does it allow you to plus like normal, but it has the added bonus of applying extra chain links when needed (Accumulated / Chain Strike).

I felt two Lava Golem was best, especially atm with people not putting much on the field. Lava Golem will be exceptional against Rabbit decks that will be around, and it's a very good out to Zenmaines.

Legacy / Jar are easily some of the best cards in the deck, and should be max'd out.
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I think One Day of Peace is a 3x card in this.

EDIT: I was right. Fuck the haters.
-2

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[quote name='teh Keewie' timestamp='1320808078' post='3026074']
[i][u][b]I played this at Toronto. Maxx "C" was my mvp all day. Not only does it allow you to plus like normal, but it has the added bonus of applying extra chain links when needed (Accumulated / Chain Strike).[/b][/u][/i]

I felt two Lava Golem was best, especially atm with people not putting much on the field. Lava Golem will be exceptional against Rabbit decks that will be around, and it's a very good out to Zenmaines.

Legacy / Jar are easily some of the best cards in the deck, and should be max'd out.
[/quote]

no to mention the fact that your opponent is more hesitant to make nonlethal pushes involving multiple special summons to get damage on board, which can make the duel last a couple more turns in your favor when necessary.
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9
3 Maxx "C"
3 Swift Scarecrow
3 Lava Golem

5
2 Chain Strike
3 Pot of Duality

26
2 Ojama Trio
2 Magic Cylinder
1 Ceasefire
3 Jar of Greed
3 Accumulated Fortune
3 Just Desserts
3 Legacy of Yata-Garasu
3 Reckless Greed
3 Dimension Wall
3 Secret Barrel

Possible Side(s):
3 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Dust Tornado
3 Fairy Wind
3 Poison of the Old Man
3 Offerings to the Doomed
1 Starlight Road

OR

1 Exodia the Forbidden One
1 Left Arm of the Forbidden One
1 Left Leg of the Forbidden One
1 Right Arm of the Forbidden One
1 Right Leg of the Forbidden One
3 One Day of Peace
3 Upstart Goblin
3 Battle Fader
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness



Just something I've been dicking around with...this is the reason I suggested this thread in the first place...I wanted a better outlet than the Garage to bounce ideas and also see other players' takes on the deck.
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Would Naturia Beast/Barkion cause problems for this deck? What are some possible maindeck outs to them, or would they be sided?
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Beast isn't really a problem, as most builds(as far as I've seen, not taking into account Infusion's sample list) run virtually no spells outside of Chain Strike, with Thunder Short, Scapegoat, and Pot popping up here and there. Beating Nat Beast with just your traps is easy. Lava Golem deals well too, if they drop anything else(or you flip Trio). Barkion is a HUGE problem, though. Lava Golem again puts in work, but only if they commit a second monster, or you left them with any Ojamas before Beast hit(unlikely...the tokens probably led to Barkion, lol). Personally, I like Offerings to the Doomed as an answer to Barkion/Jinzo. It's qp, so you can use it anytime, and it can also add another CL for Strike, which adds up fast, and it's not uncommon for you to already be under a Reckless, where Offerings' drawback is completely nullified. Double Snare could be cute, as it deals with Barkion, Jinzo, AND Decree...but you might not be able to wait until your own turn.
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I would use Volcanic Queen over Lava Golem anyday.

I used maxx c some but I noticed they wouldn't end with more than 1-2 monsters, leaving me with one draw from Maxx C and a less potent Just Desserts or Thunder Short. I would personally use Swift Scarecrow before I use Maxx C because dealing that extra damage with those burn cards is just worth it. Unless your opponent has game, they won't let you draw 2+ cards off Maxx C...

Isn't Barkion a near irrelevant card? Karakuri can rarely make it, X-Sabers,..... not sure where else .
-7

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Volcanic Queen has the horrible horrible tendency to backfire...and can do so badly. Lava Golem is a far safer and more consistent card to use.

As for Maxx "C"...that's half the point. You're not simply playing it for the draws. If they stop and you "only get 1-2 cards", then you've gotten that much deeper into your deck, plus another draw phase to finish the game, while they simply don't finish you off. And if the do say "fuck it" and keep going, they could very well have drawn you into Fader/Scarecrow anyway. It's a Catch-22 for your opponent. At worst, it's an Upstart Goblin that brickwalls your opponent's big push. At best, it literally draws you into the nuts. Not to mention you can just randomly throw it into a Chain somwhere for an extra link, allowing an otherwise-dead Accumulated Fortune to become live, or push a Chain Strike9or pair!) into fatal damage range. That's a pretty safe range of options for a card.

Barkion is not irrelevant. Sabers don't really show up much lately, but they make it with ease. Karakuri has the option to go to it, and even the threat of that is enough to take Barkion into consideration, especially with the burgeoning popularity of karakuri of late. The anti-meta type Samurai builds gaining a following also can make Barkion extremely effectively, and T.G. is another popular and often-present deck that can make Barkion with ease. If you ignore Barkion playing Chain Burn, you ignore winning.
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[quote name='Howard' timestamp='1320853034' post='3026367']
Isn't Barkion a near irrelevant card? Karakuri can rarely make it, X-Sabers,..... not sure where else .
[/quote]
Even though Karakuri rarely make it, it can do so easily, which it would against this deck.
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A lot of Karakuri are dropping it from the extra due to room issues, and sabers are never seen because of the Darksoul ruling. Even then, it isnt THAT easy for Karakuri to make it. You have to either draw in to Saizan and Merchant, or first make Burei/Bureido with 1 already in hand, special the other from deck then make it. I mean sure, opening Cyber/Ninishi/Merchant works, but still
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Yeah, a lot of Karakuri players are dropping it, and it's hard to make in that deck. But the simple fact that it can, and the deck sees enough play means that one should be prepared for it when playing Chain Burn. Not to mention T.G. I would never be caught playing this deck without mained and/or sided answers to Jinzo/Barkion/Decree.
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[quote name='Cornholio' timestamp='1320856957' post='3026389']
sabers are never seen because of the Darksoul ruling.
[/quote]

What is this Darksoul ruling you speak of?
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Darksoul now activates during the End Phase like T.G. monsters. You can no longer search two X-Saber monsters after sending the same Darksoul to the grave twice in one turn.
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[quote name='Lamp' timestamp='1320864263' post='3026473']
Darksoul now activates during the End Phase like T.G. monsters. You can no longer search two X-Saber monsters after sending the same Darksoul to the grave twice in one turn.
[/quote]

When was this confirmed?
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I think lava golemn is a great card, becouse it removes annoying cards such as barkion, beast and shien
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Barkion has never been an issue. If my opponent is actually playing Barkion (meaning Karakuri or X-Sabers), they are most likely stupid enough to put a 2nd monster on the board.

My Toronto report should still be up. Sided Heavy Storm and Gorz was clutch. Game 2 they know you are playing burn so a random Heavy Storm on their 3+ back row is huge. It can also make the bad player use Solemn Judgment.
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