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harig07    2058
So my friend lost in Round 2 cause he tried to Pot of Avarice monsters back to his deck when he had no cards left in the deck. The judge ruled that you couldn't used PoA if you haven't got any cards in the deck and he spent like a whole day raging about it so I just said I'd post it up here for clarification.

Long story short, can you use Pot of Avarice if you have 0 cards left in the deck?

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»Draigun    6835
That makes no sense. Avarice is going to return 5 monsters back to the deck, then you draw 2 cards afterwards.

If 5 monsters are returned to the main deck, you'll be left w/ 3 cards in deck. Only exception to that is if the person playing Avarice is returning 4 or more monsters to the Extra Deck.

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XeroHiro    65
[quote name='nippie' timestamp='1324327640' post='3055968']
no.
can't use avarice with 1 or less cards left in deck.
[/quote]

where's your proof. Last I checked, there are no rulings stating you can't use avarice in this situation. I'd say it's safe to say you CAN use avarice with 1 or less cards in deck, because the cost is sending 5 monsters from your grave to your deck/extra deck.

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Quack    1840
i dont think you can activate poa

and when you activate poa you dont pay the cost and immediately send 5 monsters back to your deck, you can crow the monsters for a reason

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Spooderman    7231
Because you cant activate rota with no warriors in deck. (can't draw cards when theirs none in the deck).
  • Upvote 1

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»Pharaoh Atem    15769
The rationale for this is simple, and the evidence lies in how one can't activate Dark Bribe while there are no cards in their opp's deck.

You can't draw X cards if X cards are not in your deck.
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Nitro    13
[quote name='Pharaoh Atem' timestamp='1324331244' post='3056011']
The rationale for this is simple, and the evidence lies in how one can't activate Dark Bribe while there are no cards in their opp's deck.

You can't draw X cards if X cards are not in your deck.
[/quote]

But Bribe is a cost and avarice is an effect. Are you sure that the rulings is that similar then?
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»Pharaoh Atem    15769
You don't know what an activation cost is.

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Tuvillo    13
At the time of activation you don't know whether or not 5 Extra Deck monsters will be returned.

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»Turkey    1515
It was ruled correctly.

and lol @ multiple people not knowing the difference between a cost and an effect but posting anyway

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»John Danker    945
[quote name='Turkey' timestamp='1324429472' post='3056935']
It was ruled correctly.

and lol @ multiple people not knowing the difference between a cost and an effect but posting anyway
[/quote]

Yeah well, we're all ignorant of the game to various extents and we all started off knowing very little. I'm sure that there are numerous people here who can teach me things I don't know as well as you.....and that's what rules forums are for, to learn. So take it easy huh? Don't demean people for trying to learn regardless of their level of understanding, at least they're attempting to learn which is more than we can say for many.
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harig07    2058
Thanks guys, the raging has been quelled.

Another thing that came up was whether or not you could activate the effect of Rescue Rabbit if you controlled 4 monsters (including the Rabbit). Apparently that caused a bit of ruckus as well.

I would assume that you couldn't activate the effect in the first place but just going to go ahead and check anyway.

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Tuvillo    13
You can activate Lonefire Blossom when it's your 5th monster, right?

Being able to activate Polymerization or similar effects while having a full field, I think these things are all possible.

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Lux    1558
Attempting to special summon monsters with Rabbit into a full field is incredibly different from Avaricing with no deck left. Imagine, for a moment, that the card you are activating wants to do something. The rules of yugioh state that the card you are activating must attempt to actually DO what it wants to do, and be able to do that when activating the card.

Enemy Controller is a good example. If you have a monster, but your opponent does not, you can't activate Enemy Controller. Why? Your opponent doesn't have a monster to target for either effects. Sure, for the second effect of Enemy Controller, you can pay the COST (tributing a monster on your side of the field), but the ACTIVATION REQUIREMENT (your opponent having a face up monster to target and attempt to take control of) is not present. Cost and activation requirement are different.

The cost of activating Pot of Avarice is selecting 5 monsters from your graveyard to shuffle back into your deck. The activation requirements for activating Pot of Avarice are having 5 monsters in your graveyard to select for the cost in the first place and having 2 cards in your deck to draw after the effect resolves.

Another example would be Heavy Storm. You can't activate Heavy Storm if there are no other spells or traps on the field, because it would do nothing. There's no cost to activate it, but there are still stipulations and game mechanics that prevent us from doing so.

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Spooderman    7231
[quote name='Lux' timestamp='1324531589' post='3057898']


The cost of activating Pot of Avarice is selecting 5 monsters from your graveyard to shuffle back into your deck.


[/quote]

oh ok

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»ACP    33422
I would rule that you can activate Pot of Avarice in this situation. There is no rule that says you can't activate an effect to draw X cards if X cards aren't in your deck. The only rule we have to go by is "You can't activate an effect that you know you can't fully resolve correctly".

The following statement always holds true, "If and only if 5 monsters are returned to your deck, you draw 2 cards from your deck." If your opponent chains Big Burn to Pot of Avarice, Pot of Avarice doesn't resolve properly and you won't draw 2 cards anyways, so having 0 cards in your deck to begin with is irrelevant.

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Tuvillo    13
At the time of activation, you can not resolve its effect, even though you would be at resolution.

You can not activate Zombie Master or Lumina with an empty graveyard, even though you would be able to summon the card you discard.

Also, while the card is in your hand, you would be able to target 5 Extra Deck monsters, so you would not be able to play it from your hand at that time.

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»ACP    33422
Lumina/Zombie Master is different. Hands are private information, so the gamestate does not consider that pitching an illegible target would make them a legal activation even with an empty graveyard.

On the other hand, graveyards are public information. The gamestate can clearly see whether or not Pot of Avarice will be able to resolve correctly. It doesn't matter what you "would be" able to target. As long as you send back at least 2 non-extra deck monsters, Pot of Avarice will be able to resolve just fine.

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»ACP    33422
"At the time of activation, you can not resolve its effect, even though you would be at resolution." - Another example that violates this rule that just made up is the fact that you can't Charge of the Light Brigade with exactly 3 cards left in your deck (with one being a Lightsworn monster). Legal at activation, illegal at resolution = can't be activated.

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