victor

feel free to correct him Victor rants about Heroes and bashes Veiler/Chain

367 posts in this topic

[quote name='2ooox' timestamp='1333129043' post='3141677']
[quote name='dennis frogman' timestamp='1333126712' post='3141661']
when I said burstinatrix doesn't give you access to any good hero fusions, I meant unique access, I thought that would be obvious. Who the fuck cares if it helps you make shit that you can already make? So your deck makes things a little more consistently with fusion gate (and I must stress how trivial the difference between kabazauls and burstinatrix is when it comes to fusion gate plays as 1) it's three Fucking cards 2) You're going to be grabbing the kabazauls out of your deck early on anyways most of the time so it's a moot point 3) More often than not the Kabazauls are live for fusion gate anyways because you can actually draw Sparkmen and Ice Edge too 4) you can just protect the kabazauls you draw and eventually turn them into evolzars). Why not just run gate hero if that's what you want in this deck? You aren't gaining diddly dick from the rabbit suite if you're just making Utopias and Rank 3s off of it. i understand what you're saying Burstinatrix adds to the deck, but when there is an entire fucking format defining deck BUILT AROUND evolzar xyzs, and this deck has the ability to quite efficiently splash them, it's generally a sign that it's worth it to do so.
[/quote]

Why even bother to state that then when you guys are saying there isn't any room for unique HERO's to begin with? Secondly, how do you protect Kabazauls that you draw in a deck that only runs hand traps to counter huge pushes or come out of a slump?... =-|... I don't even understand why you would mention that as a point to begin with. Also, Rabbit, in general for E-HERO's is incredible. In making that card Konami helped out an old theme far more than I think they intended to. Telling me I'm not getting any added benefits by running Rabbit without Kabazaul just goes to show how one-sided you're thinking in viewing this discussion.
[/quote]
You're being awfully one-sided here too. What specifically does Burstinatrix do that Kabazaul can't except get your hero engine started?

Here's what you run that gets your hero engine started:

Rabbit
Rabbit
Rabbit
Sparkman
Sparkman
Sparkman
Stratos
Ice Edge
E-Call
Rota

That's like a fourth of your deck. In fact, you're more likely to not see Fusion Gate or Miracle Fusion than you are to not have a hero to get your engine started. And honestly, the prospect of staring at a lot of vanilla heroes without Gate or Miracle Fusion is not very appealing. In that situation, I would much rather have access to the Evolzars.

Running Burstinatrix does nothing for you that the deck can't do already, save perhaps another way to 1-card rank 3 (underwhelming and redundant) and consistent access to Nova Master (I'd much rather Shining).
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I finally opened 3 KAbazauls with this deck (HAD to happen during a DCS match). Sad day :(

(and no, it didn't hamper the hero engine at all as i had enough heroes...i just didn't draw gate/super poly/miracle...or anything good for that matter lol).
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outside of torrential idk how you can fit a standard trap lineup in this deck :S
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[quote name='Egnever' timestamp='1333136952' post='3141748']
[quote name='2ooox' timestamp='1333129043' post='3141677']
[quote name='dennis frogman' timestamp='1333126712' post='3141661']
when I said burstinatrix doesn't give you access to any good hero fusions, I meant unique access, I thought that would be obvious. Who the fuck cares if it helps you make shit that you can already make? So your deck makes things a little more consistently with fusion gate (and I must stress how trivial the difference between kabazauls and burstinatrix is when it comes to fusion gate plays as 1) it's three Fucking cards 2) You're going to be grabbing the kabazauls out of your deck early on anyways most of the time so it's a moot point 3) More often than not the Kabazauls are live for fusion gate anyways because you can actually draw Sparkmen and Ice Edge too 4) you can just protect the kabazauls you draw and eventually turn them into evolzars). Why not just run gate hero if that's what you want in this deck? You aren't gaining diddly dick from the rabbit suite if you're just making Utopias and Rank 3s off of it. i understand what you're saying Burstinatrix adds to the deck, but when there is an entire fucking format defining deck BUILT AROUND evolzar xyzs, and this deck has the ability to quite efficiently splash them, it's generally a sign that it's worth it to do so.
[/quote]

Why even bother to state that then when you guys are saying there isn't any room for unique HERO's to begin with? Secondly, how do you protect Kabazauls that you draw in a deck that only runs hand traps to counter huge pushes or come out of a slump?... =-|... I don't even understand why you would mention that as a point to begin with. Also, Rabbit, in general for E-HERO's is incredible. In making that card Konami helped out an old theme far more than I think they intended to. Telling me I'm not getting any added benefits by running Rabbit without Kabazaul just goes to show how one-sided you're thinking in viewing this discussion.
[/quote]
You're being awfully one-sided here too. What specifically does Burstinatrix do that Kabazaul can't except get your hero engine started?

Here's what you run that gets your hero engine started:

Rabbit
Rabbit
Rabbit
Sparkman
Sparkman
Sparkman
Stratos
Ice Edge
E-Call
Rota

That's like a fourth of your deck. In fact, you're more likely to not see Fusion Gate or Miracle Fusion than you are to not have a hero to get your engine started. And honestly, the prospect of staring at a lot of vanilla heroes without Gate or Miracle Fusion is not very appealing. In that situation, I would much rather have access to the Evolzars.

Running Burstinatrix does nothing for you that the deck can't do already, save perhaps another way to 1-card rank 3 (underwhelming and redundant) and consistent access to Nova Master (I'd much rather Shining).
[/quote]

No, I'm not... I've mentioned several times that the Kabazaul allowing access to Evolzar xyz's is an incredible play and I've mentioned the reasons for Burstinatrix earlier.
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[quote name='Marcicus' timestamp='1333140282' post='3141796']outside of torrential idk how you can fit a standard trap lineup in this deck :S[/quote]
This.
While testing this deck, the most I could fit trap-wise was 2 torrentials.
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[quote name='2ooox' timestamp='1333145667' post='3141867']
[quote name='Egnever' timestamp='1333136952' post='3141748']
[quote name='2ooox' timestamp='1333129043' post='3141677']
[quote name='dennis frogman' timestamp='1333126712' post='3141661']
when I said burstinatrix doesn't give you access to any good hero fusions, I meant unique access, I thought that would be obvious. Who the fuck cares if it helps you make shit that you can already make? So your deck makes things a little more consistently with fusion gate (and I must stress how trivial the difference between kabazauls and burstinatrix is when it comes to fusion gate plays as 1) it's three Fucking cards 2) You're going to be grabbing the kabazauls out of your deck early on anyways most of the time so it's a moot point 3) More often than not the Kabazauls are live for fusion gate anyways because you can actually draw Sparkmen and Ice Edge too 4) you can just protect the kabazauls you draw and eventually turn them into evolzars). Why not just run gate hero if that's what you want in this deck? You aren't gaining diddly dick from the rabbit suite if you're just making Utopias and Rank 3s off of it. i understand what you're saying Burstinatrix adds to the deck, but when there is an entire fucking format defining deck BUILT AROUND evolzar xyzs, and this deck has the ability to quite efficiently splash them, it's generally a sign that it's worth it to do so.
[/quote]

Why even bother to state that then when you guys are saying there isn't any room for unique HERO's to begin with? Secondly, how do you protect Kabazauls that you draw in a deck that only runs hand traps to counter huge pushes or come out of a slump?... =-|... I don't even understand why you would mention that as a point to begin with. Also, Rabbit, in general for E-HERO's is incredible. In making that card Konami helped out an old theme far more than I think they intended to. Telling me I'm not getting any added benefits by running Rabbit without Kabazaul just goes to show how one-sided you're thinking in viewing this discussion.
[/quote]
You're being awfully one-sided here too. What specifically does Burstinatrix do that Kabazaul can't except get your hero engine started?

Here's what you run that gets your hero engine started:

Rabbit
Rabbit
Rabbit
Sparkman
Sparkman
Sparkman
Stratos
Ice Edge
E-Call
Rota

That's like a fourth of your deck. In fact, you're more likely to not see Fusion Gate or Miracle Fusion than you are to not have a hero to get your engine started. And honestly, the prospect of staring at a lot of vanilla heroes without Gate or Miracle Fusion is not very appealing. In that situation, I would much rather have access to the Evolzars.

Running Burstinatrix does nothing for you that the deck can't do already, save perhaps another way to 1-card rank 3 (underwhelming and redundant) and consistent access to Nova Master (I'd much rather Shining).
[/quote]

No, I'm not... I've mentioned several times that the Kabazaul allowing access to Evolzar xyz's is an incredible play and I've mentioned the reasons for Burstinatrix earlier.
[/quote]

Which were all inferior to evolzar access
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[quote name='ygo duelist bodan' timestamp='1333087339' post='3141445']
[quote name='ygo duelist bodan' timestamp='1331331070' post='3125087']
I might be totally wrong here but wouldn't a build with skill drain, etc, essentially hero beat but utilizing super poly (because it's insane) be better than running shit like rabbit?
[/quote]
guess i wasn't wrong
[/quote]

I think you have to take into account the fact that not only was it Joe Giorlando who was piloting Hero Beat (and just any random), but also that he made specific card choices with the Inzektor matchup in mind, namely not maining Super Polymerization.

I also think that dennis frogman and others (myself included) underestimated the Inzektor Sword variant and how it has access to a 2500 ATK floater that could beat over Evolzars. Remember that we rely primarily on hand traps for defense and typically do not accommodate the standard trap lineup. Maxx C is useless vs Inzektors and Effect Veiler doesn’t do anything about the 2500 ATK.

And moreover crashing a 2500 ATK floater with Zero... :(
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I for one completely forgot that Zectcalibur ever damn existed, and I was the first guy on this site to ever know what it damn did
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there was also the fact that there were literally two of us playing the deck and a million people playing hero beat
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<a href="http://imgur.com/5VVWZ"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/5VVWZ.jpg" alt="" title="Hosted by imgur.com" /></a>


What I'm trying out right now
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[quote name='dennis frogman' timestamp='1333173218' post='3142155']
there was also the fact that there were literally two of us playing the deck and a million people playing hero beat
[/quote]

I'm kind of hoping it stays like that honestly lol...the surprise factor was great...and it was refreshing to not run into any pure mirror matches.
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My current build:

3 tour guide
3 rabbit
3 sparkman
3 kabazauls
2 veiler
1 stratos
1 alius
1 voltic
1 sangan

3 gold sarc
3 fusion gate
3 miracle fusion
2 forbidden lance
2 super poly
1 monster reborn
1 dark hole
1 heavy storm
1 book of moon
1 rota
1 e call

2 torrential tribute
1 transmigration prophecy
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I played a version of Paul Clarke Heroes at the YCS as well. I am not going to do a big report about it since I just dropped undefeated after four rounds in. This is what I played though. My reasoning behind having the deck built with main-decked viruses was I expected a lot of rabbit decks and the majority of decks that dont go into dragons like rabbit will go into zenmaines which can slow an agressive start or turn down. I went down from 3 to 2 due to the number of random decks I expected to play with all the people there. However it is a great card, escpecially since in worst situations its a light level 3, and in the best it easily wins you the game. I played it at a tour guide tournament also before Long Beach and went 7-0 before I screwed up on a lifepoint calculation and swung my way to a tour bus from the underworld rather than winning the guide.

Monsters - 25
3 Rescue Rabbit
3 Tour Guide From the Underworld
3 Effect Veiler
3 Elemental Hero Sparkman
3 Kabazauls
2 Electric Virus
2 Maxx "C"
1 Elemental Hero Ice Edge
1 Elemental Hero Stratos
1 Elemental Hero Voltic
1 Sangan
1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness

Spells - 17
3 Fusion Gate
3 Miracle Fusion
3 E- Emergency Call
2 Super Polymerization
1 Creature Swap
1 Monster Reborn
1 Dark Hole
1 Book of Moon
1 Heavy Storm
1 Terraforming

Side - 15
2 Cyber Dragon
2 Puppet Plant
2 Snowman Eater
1 Elemental Hero Prisma
1 Caius The Shadow Monarch
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Shield Crush
2 Smashing Ground
1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon


Extra - 15
3 Elemental Hero the Shining
2 Elemental Hero Absolute Zero
2 Elemental Hero Nova Master
1 Elemental Hero Gaia
1 Evolzar Laggia
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Blade Armor Ninja
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines
1 Number 17: Leviathan Dragon
1 Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
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I'm confused why people are running RotA over an E-Call? E-Call grabs all of the same things, plus Voltic.
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[quote name='Terra' timestamp='1333364095' post='3143800']
I'm confused why people are running RotA over an E-Call? E-Call grabs all of the same things, plus Voltic.
[/quote]
Yeah it's pretty funny.
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[quote name='DarkBlaze557' timestamp='1333382760' post='3143922']
Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell? Lol
[/quote]

The funny thing is that's one of the cards I've been considering.

A lot of the top tier decks play Spells in multiple copies and Cursed Seal makes them dead draws.

Duality
MST
Forbidden Lance
Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber
Gemini Spark
Miracle Fusion
Dragged Down / Dark World Dealings / The Gates of Dark World
Econ/Evo-Force

We run extra copies of Terraforming, Fusion Gate, ECall/ROTA (after the initial Stratos search, it loses its effectiveness), dead copies of Miracle Fusion, etc.
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THe only problem is that it's application is situational, and having "dead" spells is more situational than it sounds too. I don't frequently have spells that I'd want to toss away.

Even if I did find myself drawing dead spells, I'd rather replace them with something that's more "live".

That said, it might be an interesting side against spell-based engines such as Dark Worlds.
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Current build I'm testing for Dallas

Monsters: 20
3 Rescue Rabbit
3 Elemental Hero - Sparkman
3 Kabazauls
3 Tour Guide from the Underworld
3 Effect Veiler
1 Sangan
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Elemental Hero - Stratos
1 Elemental Hero - Alius
1 Elemental Hero - Ocean

Spells: 18
3 Fusion Gate
3 Miracle Fusion
2 Forbidden Lance
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Forbidden Chalice
1 Heavy Storm
1 ROTA
1 Dark Hole
1 Monster Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Pot of Avarice

Traps: 3
2 Torrential Tribute
1 Hero Blast

Extra Deck: 15
3 Elemental HERO The Shining
2 Elemental HERO Absolute Zero
1 Elemental HERO Gaia
1 Elemental HERO Nova Master
1 Blade Armor Ninja
1 Evolzar Laggia 
1 Evolzar Dolkka
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
1 Number 20: Leviathan Dragon
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Number 30: Acid Golem
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines


Side Deck: 15
3 Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
3 Royal Decree
2 D.D. Crow
2 Super Polymerization 
2 Snowman Eater
1 Forbidden Chalice
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Shield Crush
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[quote name='Mark Fehring' timestamp='1333499644' post='3145194']
Current build I'm testing for Dallas

Monsters: 20
3 Rescue Rabbit
3 Elemental Hero - Sparkman
3 Kabazauls
3 Tour Guide from the Underworld
3 Effect Veiler
1 Sangan
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Elemental Hero - Stratos
1 Elemental Hero - Alius
1 Elemental Hero - Ocean

Spells: 18
3 Fusion Gate
3 Miracle Fusion
2 Forbidden Lance
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Forbidden Chalice
1 Heavy Storm
1 ROTA
1 Dark Hole
1 Monster Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Pot of Avarice

Traps: 3
2 Torrential Tribute
1 Hero Blast

Extra Deck: 15
3 Elemental HERO The Shining
2 Elemental HERO Absolute Zero
1 Elemental HERO Gaia
1 Elemental HERO Nova Master
1 Blade Armor Ninja
1 Evolzar Laggia
1 Evolzar Dolkka
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
1 Number 20: Leviathan Dragon
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Number 30: Acid Golem
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines


Side Deck: 15
3 Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
3 Royal Decree
2 D.D. Crow
2 Super Polymerization
2 Snowman Eater
1 Forbidden Chalice
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Shield Crush
[/quote]

With the discussion of how bad the inzektor match up is, how can you take out warning?
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[quote name='DrDroo' timestamp='1333967715' post='3149581']
[quote name='Mark Fehring' timestamp='1333499644' post='3145194']
Current build I'm testing for Dallas

Monsters: 20
3 Rescue Rabbit
3 Elemental Hero - Sparkman
3 Kabazauls
3 Tour Guide from the Underworld
3 Effect Veiler
1 Sangan
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Elemental Hero - Stratos
1 Elemental Hero - Alius
1 Elemental Hero - Ocean

Spells: 18
3 Fusion Gate
3 Miracle Fusion
2 Forbidden Lance
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Forbidden Chalice
1 Heavy Storm
1 ROTA
1 Dark Hole
1 Monster Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Pot of Avarice

Traps: 3
2 Torrential Tribute
1 Hero Blast

Extra Deck: 15
3 Elemental HERO The Shining
2 Elemental HERO Absolute Zero
1 Elemental HERO Gaia
1 Elemental HERO Nova Master
1 Blade Armor Ninja
1 Evolzar Laggia
1 Evolzar Dolkka
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
1 Number 20: Leviathan Dragon
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Number 30: Acid Golem
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines


Side Deck: 15
3 Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
3 Royal Decree
2 D.D. Crow
2 Super Polymerization
2 Snowman Eater
1 Forbidden Chalice
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Shield Crush
[/quote]

With the discussion of how bad the inzektor match up is, how can you take out warning?
[/quote]

I've actually not lost to an Inzektor deck in a numerous amount of weeks with this deck when my locals has lots of Inzektor. The build has changed since then, but still no warnings.

Only real change I've made to the main deck itself was -hero blast +emergency call
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3 Rescue Rabbit
3 Elementel Hero Sparkman
3 Kabazauls
3 Tour Guide From the Underworld
3 Effect Veiler
1 Sangan
1 Elemental Hero Ice Edge
1 Elemental Hero Stratos
1 Max "C"

3 Fusion Gate
3 Miracle Fusion
3 Forbidden Lance
2 Terraforming
2 E - Emergency Call
1 Reinforcement of the Army
1 Dark Hole
1 Monster Reborn
1 Heavy Storm
1 Pot of Avarice

2 Torrential Tribute
2 Solemn Warning

3 Elemental Hero Neos Alius
3 Gemini Spark
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Super Polymerization
2 Forbidden Chalice
1 Shadow-Imprisoning Mirror
1 Royal Decree
1 Elemental Hero Nova Master

3 Elemental Hero the Shining
3 Elemental Hero Absolute Zero
1 Elemental Hero Gaia
1 Evolzar Laggia
1 Evolzar Dolkka
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
1 Number 30: Acid Golem of Destruction
1 Number 17: Leviathan Dragon
1 Blade Armor Ninja
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines

I usually play a copy of Chain Material because it's an instant +5 and usually gives you the win. However if I were to the play the deck in an event this is the build.
I've been playing this deck along with a buddy of mine on these forums before Victor ever "invented" the deck. There's honestly nothing I would change in the main besides the single copy of Max "C" depending where I am playing. Otherwise I feel like everything is set in stone for me.
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i actually like the sidedecked alius+sparks alot.
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How necessary is the water e-hero? Obviously this deck is super tight on room and I hardly ever find myself wanting to search ocean/ice edge with stratos. Zero is ok, but shining is the real beast of the deck.
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I've been running an Alius/Voltic for the extra [light] Hero(s) and haven't looked back. Like Droo said you really want more ways to get shining. ICe Edge seems pretty sub par...esp when his effect can result in a straight up minus.
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