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George Zimmerman charged with 2nd Degree Murder

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Laser Cat    5611
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1354941439' post='3342856']
[quote name='Boosh' timestamp='1354929849' post='3342708']Had those break ins been done by white teenagers, I think he definitely would have reacted the same way seeing an unfamiliar white kid at night.
[/quote]
doubtful
[/quote]

Why do you doubt that?
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Malcolm's Multi    1793
[quote name='Boosh' timestamp='1354954170' post='3342979']
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1354941439' post='3342856']
[quote name='Boosh' timestamp='1354929849' post='3342708']Had those break ins been done by white teenagers, I think he definitely would have reacted the same way seeing an unfamiliar white kid at night.
[/quote]
doubtful
[/quote]

Why do you doubt that?
[/quote]

because mr tate is black. the only reason he gives a shit about this case is because he is black.
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»Ryu    2416
because white people aren't fucking profiled like that lmao

its been said in this thread before but the lack of acknowledgment of structural reasons for why this occurred is pretty sad

this might be a controversial idea for you guys but george zimmerman, especially when he was playing the social role he acted out that night, is white as fuck. he's not going to racially profile other white people ya dingus.

minority cops racially profile minorities too. and they don't profile whites either. it has to do with who's actually got the political power. it's not an even playing field, seriously, stop kidding yourself.

since i'm not black i wonder why i care about it. the world may never know
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»orangeeyes    11863
[quote name='Ryu' timestamp='1354986087' post='3343096']
because white people aren't fucking profiled like that lmao
[/quote]

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»Ryu    2416
victor told me what happened with them BART cops
i told him yo i aint never met a smart cop
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»Ryu    2416
i know these don't provide any direct evidence for anything in this case and u might call them "isolated incidents", anecdotal etc but it kinda makes ya think a little bit (if u have the capacity to do so) that maybe this trend is a symptom of a greater problem

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting"]http://en.wikipedia....Diallo_shooting[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Bell_shooting_incident"]http://en.wikipedia....ooting_incident[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant"]http://en.wikipedia...._of_Oscar_Grant[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima"]http://en.wikipedia....ki/Abner_Louima[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Dorismond"]http://en.wikipedia....trick_Dorismond[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Stewart_%28graffiti_artist%29"]http://en.wikipedia....ffiti_artist%29[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Bumpurs"]http://en.wikipedia....Eleanor_Bumpurs[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ousmane_Zongo"]http://en.wikipedia....i/Ousmane_Zongo[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randolph_Evans"]http://en.wikipedia..../Randolph_Evans[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Timothy_Stansbury"]http://en.wikipedia....mothy_Stansbury[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_shooting_in_South_Jamaica,_Queens"]http://en.wikipedia....Jamaica,_Queens[/url]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Baez"]http://en.wikipedia....ki/Anthony_Baez[/url]
ernest sayon - [url="http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/01/nyregion/giuliani-pledges-to-investigate-man-s-death-in-police-custody.html?pagewanted=all"]http://www.nytimes.c...?pagewanted=all[/url]
johnnie cromartie - [url="http://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/04/nyregion/coroner-says-man-died-of-beating-while-in-new-york-police-custody.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm"]http://www.nytimes.c...nted=all&src=pm[/url]
fermin arzu - [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/12/nyregion/12lora.html"]http://www.nytimes.c...ion/12lora.html[/url]
alberta spruill - [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/29/nyregion/city-to-pay-1.6-million-in-fatal-mistaken-raid.html"]http://www.nytimes.c...taken-raid.html[/url]
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[quote name='Boosh' timestamp='1354929849' post='3342708']
[quote name='Conspire' timestamp='1354929357' post='3342706']
I disagree with Boosh saying Zimmerman being "borderline-racist" was a bit harsh. I disagree with Beetle too. Zimmerman was definitely being racist. If it was a white kid would he have reacted the same way? Maybe. My bet is that he wouldn't have chased the kid down if he was white.
[/quote]

Probably not, but that is because the people being caught for the recent burglaries in that neighborhood had been black.
[/quote]

That is the definition of racism.

Him not saying the race of the person to the dispatcher does absolve him of racial discrimination. He saw a black kid walking home, not looking in windows or anything, and thought, how unusual! The very act of suspicion is based in racism. +1 for Ryu for talking about how racism is structural and based in power.
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Animal    121
itt: People don't know the word racist.

Racist means HATRED of another race.

Profiling is what Zimmerman did. I'm glad Boosh made them posts, but really he didn't say anything that wasn't said before in this thread. Arguing over whether or not about the morality of Florida law isn't important, it's seeing whether Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, and it doesn't seem like it.
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[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354991569' post='3343130']
itt: People don't know the word racist.

Racist means HATRED of another race.

Profiling is what Zimmerman did. I'm glad Boosh made them posts, but really he didn't say anything that wasn't said before in this thread. Arguing over whether or not about the morality of Florida law isn't important, it's seeing whether Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, and it doesn't seem like it.
[/quote]

You're right, thinking another black person will commit a crime because you saw a black person commit a crime once isn't racist at all.

As has been said before, stand your ground applies both ways, except the man with the gun is better at it than the kid with a snapple in his pocket. Even if Trayvon physically hit Zimmerman first, he felt threatened by the man stalking him on the street. This doesn't just speak to the morality of the law but also its poor legal standard which makes cases like this unsolvable. They both felt threatened, can they both shoot each other, if their guns are legal?

In effect, the legal system will be asking the jury to determine beyond a reasonable doubt what George Zimmerman was thinking, not what he did. Zimmerman may win the initial case, as the court has to follow the law, but on appeal, the plaintiff can appeal on account of the law and possibly get Stand Your Ground overturned, which could possibly result in a retrial of Zimmerman without Stand Your Ground.

There are certainly a lot of conditional statements in that, but if Zimmerman gets off because of poorly written laws, I would not be surprised but it also doesn't mean he won't go to jail.
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Animal    121
[quote]You're right, thinking another black person will commit a crime because you saw a black person commit a crime once isn't racist at all.[/quote]
He saw a kid looking around at houses at night in a high-crime area. You're right, it's not racist, it's prejudice and profiling.

[quote]As has been said before, stand your ground applies both ways, except the man with the gun is better at it than the kid with a snapple in his pocket. Even if Trayvon physically hit Zimmerman first, he felt threatened by the man stalking him on the street. This doesn't just speak to the morality of the law but also its poor legal standard which makes cases like this unsolvable. They both felt threatened, can they both shoot each other, if their guns are legal?[/quote]

http://www.husseinandwebber.com/florida-stand-your-ground-statute.html

[quote]However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;[/quote]

Look at the picture. It was obvious Zimmerman didn't have the shoot first mentality. Please quit making yourself look stupid.
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»Ryu    2416
[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354994971' post='3343155']
[quote]You're right, thinking another black person will commit a crime because you saw a black person commit a crime once isn't racist at all.[/quote]
He saw a kid looking around at houses at night in a high-crime area. You're right, it's not racist, it's prejudice and profiling.[/quote]
prejudice and profiling are elements of racism you idiot.

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[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354997281' post='3343168']
But it's not racism.
[/quote]

[b] [font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3]776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—[/size][/font][/b]



[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3]The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:[/size][/font]



[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3](2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3](a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or[/size][/font]



I figured this was relevant to the thread and discussion. I still stand by my position that "believing to have exhausted every reasonable means of escape" is a poorly worded standard. Most of these laws have a reasonable person standard, which allow juries to use their judgment as to if it was impossible to escape, rather than Zimmerman thought it was impossible to escape.

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»orangeeyes    11863
[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354991569' post='3343130']
itt: People don't know the word racist.

Racist means HATRED of another race.

Profiling is what Zimmerman did. I'm glad Boosh made them posts, but really he didn't say anything that wasn't said before in this thread. Arguing over whether or not about the morality of Florida law isn't important, it's seeing whether Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, and it doesn't seem like it.
[/quote]
oh god not this shit again

sorry, I had no idea that prejudice, discrimination and profiling were only racist if you call the person a nigger to go along with it. I should read more and stop having such pedestrian views on racial sociology.
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Jesus the Jew    986
[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354997281' post='3343168']
But it's not racism.
[/quote]



[b] rac·ism[/b]
[i]noun[/i] [color=#717274][size=3]\ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm [i]also[/i] -ˌshi-\[/size][/color]



[b] Definition of [i]RACISM[/i][/b]


[b]1[/b]
[indent=1][b]:[/b] a belief that [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/race%5B3%5D"]race[/url] is the primary [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/determinant"]determinant[/url] of human traits and capacities and that [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racial"]racial[/url] differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race[/indent]



[b]2[/b]
[indent=1][b]:[/b] racial [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudice%5B1%5D"]prejudice[/url] or discrimination[/indent]



Straight from Merriam-Webster. If he profiled Trayvon, clearly it fits the second definition.

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»Ryu    2416
hey boosh how about a response instead of passive aggressive negging you puss

stereotype - generalization of "typical" characteristics of members of a group (postive or negative)
prejudice - attitude/feeling/judgment toward an individual based on their group membership (usually negative)
discrimination - action taken toward objects of prejudice. intentional and unintentional, individual and institutional

(these are for animal since he seems to be pretty confused about general terminology)

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Laser Cat    5611
[quote name='Ryu' timestamp='1355011468' post='3343271']
hey boosh how about a response instead of passive aggressive negging you puss

stereotype - generalization of "typical" characteristics of members of a group (postive or negative)
prejudice - attitude/feeling/judgment toward an individual based on their group membership (usually negative)
discrimination - action taken toward objects of prejudice. intentional and unintentional, individual and insitutional
[/quote]

I see we care alot about rep. I was actually working on a response earlier but had more important shit to do so I copied on a word doc to finish it later.

If you're curious why the neg rep though, its because your response(s) to me was/were nothing more than "lol there's racism in America you idiot" when that wasn't the point of what I was saying or asking. Of course there is still fucking racism and of course the past effects of racism still have a massive effect on society today, no one is fucking arguing with you on that. I was asking orangeeyes why he was doubtful of what I said in the specific hypothetical. Your answer of "lol racism exists idiot" is nothing more than reducing the entire incident to skin color and ignoring a pretty good amount of other important factors in this case. I'll go into it more in the post I was working on (and that I plan to post later), but in the meantime would you kindly drop the superior attitude your recent posts have. This is a discussion, not an argument.
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»Ryu    2416
well his response to you was quoting me, so there's your answer bro. white people aren't racially profiled by police. so introducing that as a hypothetical doesn't amount to anything there. also by introducing it you're trying to separate the racism from the rest of what happened in the real situation.

and i don't care about rep, it's more of the fact that i noticed you had negged me without coming up with a response

and you telling someone to drop a superior attitude is pretty lol btw

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»orangeeyes    11863
[quote name='Boosh' timestamp='1355018975' post='3343354']
[quote name='Ryu' timestamp='1355011468' post='3343271']
hey boosh how about a response instead of passive aggressive negging you puss

stereotype - generalization of "typical" characteristics of members of a group (postive or negative)
prejudice - attitude/feeling/judgment toward an individual based on their group membership (usually negative)
discrimination - action taken toward objects of prejudice. intentional and unintentional, individual and insitutional
[/quote]

I see we care alot about rep. I was actually working on a response earlier but had more important shit to do so I copied on a word doc to finish it later.

If you're curious why the neg rep though, its because your response(s) to me was/were nothing more than "lol there's racism in America you idiot" when that wasn't the point of what I was saying or asking. Of course there is still fucking racism and of course the past effects of racism still have a massive effect on society today, no one is fucking arguing with you on that. I was asking orangeeyes why he was doubtful of what I said in the specific hypothetical. Your answer of "lol racism exists idiot" is nothing more than reducing the entire incident to skin color and ignoring a pretty good amount of other important factors in this case. I'll go into it more in the post I was working on (and that I plan to post later), but in the meantime would you kindly drop the superior attitude your recent posts have. This is a discussion, not an argument.
[/quote]
He responded with more than just "lol racism exists." Did you even read his post?

White people are not racially profiled when it comes to crime (except maybe in very, very, VERY specific instances). If you really, really have a problem with that statement and want to argue it I'm not going to be the one to do it, I have better things to waste my time on.
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+rei+    34687
[quote name='Animal' timestamp='1354997281' post='3343168']But it's not racism.[/quote]

rac·ism [rey-siz-uh m] Show IPA
noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; [b]discrimination.[/b]
3.
hatred or [b]intolerance[/b] of another race or other races.

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iDunnoBro    822

So anyone still following this case?

 

Personally i thought he was guilty at first, but that was mostly from being influenced by the DC demographic spewing absolute bullshit. After looking at all the facts, and how the major "evidence" of his guilt, or racism were lies still being regurgitated, I kind of doubt the average level of depth people who are against Zimmerman's understanding when they repeat the lies, or equate just having the gun, leaving his truck, etc to looking to kill. 

 

It might be that Anti-GZ people are just misrepresenting the fuck out of their argument, or i think this is just a huge mess.

 

There's also no evidence he's racist, or profiled Trayvon. Zimmerman did volunteer work for mostly black people, and defended a homeless black man from a power-abusing policeman even when the odds were against him.

So with this, and a lack of actual evidence for racism, I don't see the "racist" label really sticking. But now that Trayvon was revealed to refer to Zimmerman as a "Cracker" a derogatory term for whites, it's likely he was the racist one... But no one wants to acknowledge that? I just don't get it.

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+scuzzlebutt    23495

So anyone still following this case?

 

Personally i thought he was guilty at first, but that was mostly from being influenced by the DC demographic spewing absolute bullshit. After looking at all the facts, and how the major "evidence" of his guilt, or racism were lies still being regurgitated, I kind of doubt the average level of depth people who are against Zimmerman's understanding when they repeat the lies, or equate just having the gun, leaving his truck, etc to looking to kill. 

 

It might be that Anti-GZ people are just misrepresenting the fuck out of their argument, or i think this is just a huge mess.

 

There's also no evidence he's racist, or profiled Trayvon. Zimmerman did volunteer work for mostly black people, and defended a homeless black man from a power-abusing policeman even when the odds were against him.

So with this, and a lack of actual evidence for racism, I don't see the "racist" label really sticking. But now that Trayvon was revealed to refer to Zimmerman as a "Cracker" a derogatory term for whites, it's likely he was the racist one... But no one wants to acknowledge that? I just don't get it.

oh dear god

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Ammit    5159

So anyone still following this case?

 

Personally i thought he was guilty at first, but that was mostly from being influenced by the DC demographic spewing absolute bullshit. After looking at all the facts, and how the major "evidence" of his guilt, or racism were lies still being regurgitated, I kind of doubt the average level of depth people who are against Zimmerman's understanding when they repeat the lies, or equate just having the gun, leaving his truck, etc to looking to kill. 

 

It might be that Anti-GZ people are just misrepresenting the fuck out of their argument, or i think this is just a huge mess.

 

There's also no evidence he's racist, or profiled Trayvon. Zimmerman did volunteer work for mostly black people, and defended a homeless black man from a power-abusing policeman even when the odds were against him.

So with this, and a lack of actual evidence for racism, I don't see the "racist" label really sticking. But now that Trayvon was revealed to refer to Zimmerman as a "Cracker" a derogatory term for whites, it's likely he was the racist one... But no one wants to acknowledge that? I just don't get it.

i'm sorry but anyone who actually takes cracker to be a derogatory term i generally just choose to ignore. you know that cracker referred to slave masters and the whips they'd crack right? that's literally a term oppressed people used to call out their oppressors. please leave.

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»ACP    33421

So anyone still following this case?

 

Personally i thought he was guilty at first, but that was mostly from being influenced by the DC demographic spewing absolute bullshit. After looking at all the facts, and how the major "evidence" of his guilt, or racism were lies still being regurgitated, I kind of doubt the average level of depth people who are against Zimmerman's understanding when they repeat the lies, or equate just having the gun, leaving his truck, etc to looking to kill. 

 

It might be that Anti-GZ people are just misrepresenting the fuck out of their argument, or i think this is just a huge mess.

 

There's also no evidence he's racist, or profiled Trayvon. Zimmerman did volunteer work for mostly black people, and defended a homeless black man from a power-abusing policeman even when the odds were against him.

So with this, and a lack of actual evidence for racism, I don't see the "racist" label really sticking. But now that Trayvon was revealed to refer to Zimmerman as a "Cracker" a derogatory term for whites, it's likely he was the racist one... But no one wants to acknowledge that? I just don't get it.

i'm sorry but anyone who actually takes cracker to be a derogatory term i generally just choose to ignore. you know that cracker referred to slave masters and the whips they'd crack right? that's literally a term oppressed people used to call out their oppressors. please leave.

"Wow, you remind me of your deeply morally-inferior ancestors from over a century and a half ago!" - Apparently not offensive

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