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Countertop Miracles

Legacy Format Discussion

350 posts in this topic

i have access to get any of the duals.A friend has two extra playsets of each.

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I've been brewing with Izzet Delver because Young Pyromancer is sick. Its really what the deck needed to not just say no alot and instead win the game lol. 

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after playtesting tons of matchups today american delver just can't answer mongoose consistently and you die fast without batterskull or jitte. 

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can't you just like race it
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can't you just like race it

 

I wish that were the case, they have just as many counter spells as you do so geist resolving is almost impossible, which is your biggest racer obviously meaning a 3 drop isn't going to resolve so if your saving up resources they can just do the same. If you put out a forge thats gonna be the biggest bullseye and have 2 turns to essentially answer it before it isn't sick anymore. (the turn you attempt to cast, and their own turn) They run the same number of bolts and some adopted chain lightning  they have turn 2 beaters you don't have as well that can get around your own bolts (Goyf) They also make greater use of their stifles while you only get to hit fetchlands and wastelands unless its late/mid game and you have to use it to stop a delver from turning on more gas but he's super easy to stop and more likely than not in this matchup your going to be keeping it in your hand for FOW discard fodder. The only way you can beat mongoose in this deck is one of your equips on curve with them allowing it or they just somehow never find one.

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So I still like american Delver blade but it needs to be alot different to beat certain matchups and I think stifle and a pile of wastelands are a waste of space tbh. I've also never found myself on the happy side of paying 3 mana for geist just to get it blocked. It hasn't been the card for me ever, its one of those personal choices everyone liked and I couldn't find myself liking such as blade splicer last year. (Geist is a great card I just have never found success with it ever outside of obvious hex proof.dek)

 

Creatures: 11

 

x4 Delver Of Secrets

x4 Stoneforge Mystic

x3 Young Pyromancer (this is my choice over Grim as it is multi purpose for lower mana to get value out of it, his tokens blocking mongoose is really nice to have)

 

Spells: 31 

 

x4 Brainstorm

x4 Ponder

x4 Lightning Bolt

x4 Daze

x4 Force Of Will

x4 Swords To Plowshares

x2 Spell Pierce (still in testing since I don't play any stifle and only 1 wasteland so they can build their lands and be much less effective, might be x2 opt since lower amount of win conditions you need to dig for plus the rare times you can outplay a jace's fate sealing lol, solid instant cantrip)

x1 Counterspell

 

[Non Delver Flips/Pyromancer Fails ]

 

x1 Engineered Explosives

x1 Batterskull

x1 Umezawa's Jitte

x1 Runechanter's Pike (keep putting this on pyromancer tokens and watch them flip out)

 

Land: 18

 

x3 Flooded Strand

x4 Scalding Tarn

x4 Tundra

x3 Volcanic Island

x1 Wasteland (basically to crush any troubling land effects, or if they are legit stuck on land problems but rarely has this happened when I had this 1 copy)

x1 Academy Ruins (all star thus far)

x2 Island

 

If you guys test online try it out if you feel you need geist for speed then go for it its a great card.

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The UWR Delver deck has been doing quite well recently. Owen's GP win along with some great finishes at recent SCG events. How real do we think this deck is? Obviously, tempo delver decks are good, but specifically how good is this iteration? Do we think it'll just be the flavor of the month ala deathblade or will it be the force that RUG is?

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UWR Delver has been considered the best legacy deck for a while now

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UWR Delver has been considered the best legacy deck for a while now

"Best legacy deck" is a pretty bold statement. Last week multiple SCG Premium Writers (including Ari Lax and Drew Levin) stated that they didn't think UWR was a good deck.

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I tend to agree in that I don't think there is an outright "best" Legacy deck, since pretty much every deck has bad matchups and every deck can get nutted on by Reanimator/SnS/Storm/etc.

I would go so far as to say that I don't see myself playing a deck that doesn't have access to Blue, but generally I think play skill and knowledge of matchups with your deck of choice go a lot further than simply picking the best deck and running with it. That's one of the main reasons I'm trying to put together a Legacy deck well in advance of the SCG Open in Orlando.
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i don't think there's a "best legacy deck" either, but i also think it's highly, highly unlikely that any deck that wins a gp, especially a legacy gp, isnt at least a "good deck." i think it's fair to say that uwr has earned a spot as one of the main consistent contenders in legacy right now (and that's probably the most anyone can say about any deck in legacy). then again, i'm probably biased because i try to play uwr in all formats whenever it's good, and if uwr actually was a bad legacy deck at this point i doubt i'd admit it to myself

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Legacy isn't about playing the best deck. It's about playing the deck that you know the best.
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Legacy isn't about playing the best deck. It's about playing the deck that you know the best.


It is possible to metagame in legacy a bit, but only in general ways. Like archetypes (ie using over-powered graveyard strategies when hate is low) or specific cards (like no Force of Will main-decked when combo is at a low.
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i would rather learn the best deck than play a suboptimal deck i happen to like
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There's not really a "best" deck.
There are a bunch of decks that are Tier 1, but there is no single "best" deck

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i would rather learn the best deck than play a suboptimal deck i happen to like

magic doesnt work like that, especially not legacy

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Shown by GP DC have 8 different decks in top 8

 

If you had to point to something, I think UWR delver has the best results currently? Delver is also one of the most-played decks though, and it's strategy hasn't changed much for a long time, so people are very experienced with it. UWR (the more midrange delver) did get a boost from True-Name-Nemesis, but it's definitely no "best deck".

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I agree that there is not necessarily a "best" deck in Legacy, although some are certainly stronger or more consistent than others. 

 

The main thing I have noticed about Legacy is how many cards require decisions, such as proper use of Force of Will and Cabal Therapy. You really can't judge a deck on paper without knowing it's pilot.

 

I've seen some people suggest that RUG Delver is just an outdated version of UWR Delver. Imagine if that was true - but the RUG Delver players are so proficient with their decks, that being outdated doesn't reflect their performance.

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Is Affinity of some kind viable in Legacy? What cards could upgrade it from the Modern build?
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clearly there is no best deck in legacy, but when the options are decks that are blatantly more powerful than others or a deck that i have played for 6 months because it was cheap and easy to get into the game with, i would rather devote my time to learning a deck that will have more success and longevity than waste my time with a deck i will have less success with.
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Is Affinity of some kind viable in Legacy? What cards could upgrade it from the Modern build?

It's a fringe tier 3 archetype that has Top 8'd tournaments in the past. Biggest upgrade is artifact lands.

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After seeing Doomsday get 9th at the open and given the fact that the core of the deck overlaps a lot with Tin Fins which I already have, I'm tempted to expand my horizons and learn the ways of Doomsday combo.

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After seeing Doomsday get 9th at the open and given the fact that the core of the deck overlaps a lot with Tin Fins which I already have, I'm tempted to expand my horizons and learn the ways of Doomsday combo.


going to play gishkill in every game?
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I have an affinity for certain kinds of decks. I also want to play Master of Waves Merfolk in modern. If I buy Lion's Eye Diamonds and Burning Wish for Doomsday I can also just decide to build TES or ANT later as well.

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