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The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 Forbidden and Limited Lists) [Sets Until TLM]

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1 hour ago, Ynusgridorh said:

 

Off the top of my head:

- No priority.

 

 

Oh, so Percy doesn't allow priority, my mistake.

 

But that leads to another question: how many interactions can you think of that will be affected by this? Can we not simply ask if the opponent wishes to use priority before activating cards such as Book of Moon, Ring of Destruction, or Torrential Tribute? That will likely solve 95% of the issues we would have with priority on YGOPRO.

 

1 hour ago, Ynusgridorh said:

 

- If Airknight attacks Jar, Jar effect resolves first.

- If a replay occurs, you can't choose a new attacking monster.

- Last Will can be activated after the monster is sent to the graveyard.

- You can activate Royal Oppression's effect in the same chain you flip it.

 

 

These scenarios do not have nearly as much negative impact on the quality of gameplay as a poor user interface does, like what we have with LackeyCCG. I'd rather every game takes half as much time to complete than worry about these obscure scenarios being 100% accurate.

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Apparently Sinister, Ring, and DMoC work properly, but the pre-errata Sangan does not allow us to search for cards at all. I bet we could complain about it and get it fixed, if enough people complained.

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21 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Oh, so Percy doesn't allow priority, my mistake.

 

But that leads to another question: how many interactions can you think of that will be affected by this? Can we not simply ask if the opponent wishes to use priority before activating cards such as Book of Moon, Ring of Destruction, or Torrential Tribute? That will likely solve 95% of the issues we would have with priority on YGOPRO.

 

You can certainly do that and the result would usually be the same whether priority was enforced or not. The only situation in which it wouldn't work is Tribe vs. Torrential.

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So I have a question.

 

Why Dekoichi over Dark Mimic LV1 in Standard Goat sides? Against any deck that you side in Dekoichi you don't side out Meta, so it seems to me the Level 1 aspect would synergize well with the rest of the deck. It's also a DARK, like Dekoichi. The only difference I can see is the fact that Dekoichi has 1400 ATK, which isn't all that useful against anything you side him in against. 

 

I feel like in any situation where you'd have Dekoichi, Dark Mimic would be strictly better as he makes Meta live. If you're in a situation where you're setting against beaters, the 1000 DEF is the same. If you're in a situation where you can flip it, though, access to TER I feel is strictly better than 1400 LP damage. 

 

I'm just wondering what the theory is on Dekoichi over Dark Mimic, mostly. 

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@Anteaus44
You already have 2 MoF, 2 Merchant, 1 Sinister, and 2 Scapegoat usually to get you TER and the extra damage when you can get it is relevant. I've seen Dark Mimic used in decklists where another LIGHT is around and Merchant has been cut back, and I can't think of another reason to use it.

EDIT: apologies for double posting below.

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12 hours ago, Jazz said:

Apparently Sinister, Ring, and DMoC work properly, but the pre-errata Sangan does not allow us to search for cards at all. I bet we could complain about it and get it fixed, if enough people complained.


I just DL'ed YGOPro Percy and tested it versus the AI and the pre-errata Sangan worked for me. Also, I now add my vote to the motion to go to Percy over LackeyCCG  or DuelPortal as the interface is much much better, and the speed at which one can duel and deckbuild is much much faster.

I suppose these are the hazards of an automatic dueling system, but, how do you stop those annoying chain notifications and how do you activate stuff in an opponent's Draw Phase or Standby Phase?

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12 hours ago, Anteaus44 said:

So I have a question.

 

Why Dekoichi over Dark Mimic LV1 in Standard Goat sides? Against any deck that you side in Dekoichi you don't side out Meta, so it seems to me the Level 1 aspect would synergize well with the rest of the deck. It's also a DARK, like Dekoichi. The only difference I can see is the fact that Dekoichi has 1400 ATK, which isn't all that useful against anything you side him in against. 

 

 

In addition to what tetherball said about having plenty of metamorphosis targets already, a 1400 ATK floater is really useful against the decks we side it against:

- Chaos, a 1400 ATK floater allows us to clear out flip effect monsters in battle, and to put pressure on them to waste a Sorcerer on Dekoichi in response

- DFT, a 1400 ATK floater gets us closer to the critical threshold of 2000 LP that they need to activate Dimension Fusion

- OTKs, a 1400 ATK floater helps us win before the "turn clock" inevitably puts us in a dangerous situation

 

There was a stretch of time when I mained 1 Dark Mimic because I experimented with playing only 1 copy of Scapegoat, but if we are set on keeping 2 copies of Scapegoat, which I think we ought to be doing, Mimic loses its edge over Dekoichi.

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1 hour ago, Human Tetherball said:


I just DL'ed YGOPro Percy and tested it versus the AI and the pre-errata Sangan worked for me. Also, I now add my vote to the motion to go to Percy over LackeyCCG  or DuelPortal as the interface is much much better, and the speed at which one can duel and deckbuild is much much faster.

I suppose these are the hazards of an automatic dueling system, but, how do you stop those annoying chain notifications and how do you activate stuff in an opponent's Draw Phase or Standby Phase?

 

There should be an "ignore chain" button somewhere but I'm not sure what it does.

 

The problem with the lack of chain notifications is that your opponent will easily figure out if your facedown if chainable. It makes bluffing almost impossible.

 

To force the activation of cards, hold "A" or right click.

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5 hours ago, Human Tetherball said:

You already have 2 MoF, 2 Merchant, 1 Sinister, and 2 Scapegoat usually to get you TER and the extra damage when you can get it is relevant. I've seen Dark Mimic used in decklists where another LIGHT is around and Merchant has been cut back, and I can't think of another reason to use it.

 

1 Dekoichi and 1 Mimic is better than 2 Dekoichi though, since you won't lose both cards to a Nobleman.

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Is losing a dark to nobleman really a bad thing though? I assume you already have TER's, breaker, sangan, exarion if that's allowed, I thought the lights were the only ones to worry about. Now it also messes with your monster count a bit when nobleman banishes 1 monster from your deck, but so does playing Merchant. There's also the fact that I think these flip eff monsters are generally better early game than late game, and thinning your deck basically gives you your powercards easier ('upstart goblin theory' right here). I'm almost starting to wondering: wouldn't playing 3-off of a flip eff monster be a good thing, just so you can see it early game, and if it baits nobleman you'd thin your deck by 2 cards (granted that the card is good enough to play 3-off to begin with, of course, so that it doesn't really matter if they don't nobleman it)? I might be trying to apply too much modern-ygo theory to goats right here, but besides the monster count thing I don't really see a reason not to. Besides, if losing 1 monster to nobleman means your entire monster line-up is screwed then I wonder if you play enough monsters to begin with. 

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@mark You're right about Darks and playing 2 Dekoichi for the deck thin. But the bigger point is that Dekoichi is straight up better than Mimic in a lot of decks and matchups, so you wouldnt want to see Mimic over Dekoichi.

 

As far as your other suggestion about running 3-of flips, it has its merits, but the standard goat builds are pretty dependent on their LIGHT flips. You also get awkward interactions in the mirror. Faith can also be a bad opening card, so I think 2 is the better copy number. There's clearly some pros and cons and it's worth testing, but I think the versatility of having different flips and having the right number of total flips matters.

 

One thought I had from your comment was to side 1 extra Merchant and 1 extra Faith instead of my 2 Dekoichi, but there are definitely some matchups like Chaos where I want a high percentage of flips and I value the robustness of keeping at least some of them in my deck despite whatever happens early on with Nobleman.

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So I'm manually adding cards to the Dueling Book's Goat Format cardpool and I want to have you guys' opinions on whether or not Exarion and CRV should be included.

 

I used to be pro-Exarion until not long ago but I've been playing nothing but pre-Exarion since my last game with Allen and I'm willing to admit it's the superior format.

 

Having an extended cardpool would allow people who want to play Exarion and CRV Goat to do so in the Goat Format section but I kind of want to promote pre-Exarion Goat as the standard format.

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Do whatever pisses off most people least considering that most people who fuck with Goat Format or who have ever fucked with Goat Format are familiar with +Exarion, - CRV. If you want to futureproof it you can have like three checkboxes, list items, [whatever determines the cardpools in matchmaking], for like -Exarion, -CRV; +Exarion, - CRV;  +CRV and yeah put everything in there. I feel like there are better ways of evangelizing your/the ideal format than building it into the simulator as the de facto option.

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It's not even a question, you have to include Exarion if you are going to make a separate pool. This lets people play with or without Exarion as an "honor ban".

 

Nobody plays CRV Goats so don't mess with that.

 

Make sure there's still an unlimited section so people can play everything else.

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To be honest, including CRV so people can play which format they want, or not including CRV because no one plays that at all both make sense, but the entire pre-crv with exarion format didn't actually exist so that would make the least sense to have as an option actually. Can't honor ban a card that wasn't a part of the format to begin with. 

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1 hour ago, mark said:

To be honest, including CRV so people can play which format they want, or not including CRV because no one plays that at all both make sense, but the entire pre-crv with exarion format didn't actually exist so that would make the least sense to have as an option actually. Can't honor ban a card that wasn't a part of the format to begin with. 

I think an option for all three is the best way to go, even if people don't play much CRV. Who knows, down the line we may end up deciding that we like CRV and that it's a better format (I don't know how likely this is, but when you look at theory from 2005...well...anything can happen, eh? Lol). Also, options are just good in general. I know a few people who like CRV goats not as a main format but as a break from standard (be that -Exarion or not). If something is decided I hope that it will be the option to include the three main variants of the format. 

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Too many options is a bad thing from a user interface perspective and also from a new player's perspective. Stick with the standard format that far more people play and that we have far more data and decklists on. If you are trying to grow the format by promoting it via DB this is absolutely the best thing you can do for it.

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Is Duel Portal like YVD? if not I wish YVD would make a comeback. Sucks about dueling network.

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What is stopping us from using YVD for goat format? It does everything that we want it to, right?

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1 hour ago, ACP said:

What is stopping us from using YVD for goat format? It does everything that we want it to, right?

 

Servers? Also the download is corrupt for macs I think. Idk about PCs

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Isn't yvd peer to peer? I remember having to enter people's ip addresses and use Hamachi back in the day.

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has Kris uploaded his commentary video against Allen?

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9 hours ago, Bazaar of Baghdad said:

Isn't yvd peer to peer? I remember having to enter people's ip addresses and use Hamachi back in the day.

Towards the end, there were two plays to play. You could do peer to peer (usually requiring hamachi) or you could just connect to each other through YVD's servers. The server method may no longer be functional though. Using hamachi wasn't that bad though, no reason why we couldn't do that again.

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8 hours ago, Vice Captain Sanada said:

has Kris uploaded his commentary video against Allen?

 

He's always busy doing some other stuff.

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hey guys, my LGS does a goat control tournament once a month and i'm really enjoying it.  I was wondering, what are the major differences in play style of the various decks?  Goat control and turbo chaos look very similar.  Does this entire format revolve around TER?

 

Would jamming a relinquished and a few relinquished rituals work in a typical goat deck?

 

 

Is don zaloog any good in this format?  the don used to be one of my favorite cards.

 

Also, is the trample dude that discards any good?  Idk its name sadly.  I was considering using this card, possibly in airknights slot.  Is 2 tribute monsters too many?  most decks i see have only 1, being airknight and possibly jinzo for other decks

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