Haruki

The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 Forbidden and Limited Lists) [Sets Until TLM]

4072 posts in this topic

On 6/11/2017 at 6:46 AM, Brandis72 said:

Why talk specifically about optimal scenarios... I mean, sure, it'll cause no problem every now and then, but sometimes it'll also just completely flop just like Jazz said it can.

Besides, why would you use a deck that has both reaper and dustshoot in it???  Dustshoot is good in aggressive decks, and reaper is a defensive/controlly card.

The real question is: do you want to play Zoo, or do you want to play Goat, because going in the middle leads to pretty mediocre decks that lose in both matchups.

why

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Bazaar of Baghdad said:

Got a monthly (Exarion) Goat tournament started at my local shop (All the King's Men in Pitman NJ) and swept it with this Zoo list today...

 
Only played against actual goat control twice, the other two rounds were a Zoo mirror, and Zombies, so the tech cards weren't at their best there. Compulses traded with Sakuretsus a lot. The other Zoo deck in the tournament was the guy I beat round 1, who won out to claim 2nd place.

 

Turnout wasn't exciting, hoping to get a few more people for next month's event. Bunch of people cancelled last minute which was unfortunate. 


Sweet list. I've been to a couple post-Exarion goat locals and Zoo took both, I wonder if it's coincidence or data.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played a goattournament (pre-exarion) a couple of weeks ago, and I'd like to discuss some of my choices and see what you guys think. I went 4-0, and my buddy who played the same build went 3-1, losing only to me. Without further ado, here's my list:

 

Monsters: (17)
2 Tsukuyomi
2 Airknight Parshath 
2 Magical Merchant
2 Magician of Faith
1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
1 Sangan
1 Morphing Jar
1 Sinister Serpent
1 Asura Priest
1 D.D. Warrior Lady
1 Spirit Reaper
1 Breaker the Magical Warrior
1 Tribe-Infecting Virus

 

Spells: (16)
3 Metamorphosis
2 Book of Moon
2 Nobleman of Crossout
2 Scapegoat
1 Pot of Greed
1 Delinquent Duo
1 Graceful Charity
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Heavy Storm
1 Snatch Steal
1 Premature Burial

 

Traps: (7)
2 Trap Dustshoot
1 Dust Tornado
1 Ring of Destruction
1 Call of the Haunted
1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute

 

Side:
2 Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast
2 Gravekeeper's Spy
1 Jinzo
2 Creature Swap
2 Necrovalley
1 Scapegoat
3 Solemn Judgement
2 Royal Decree

 

So, obviously it's inspired by Perovics exarion build, with tweaks to fit the pre-exarion meta. The most obvious difficulty was to replace the pressure and presence of exarion, and I considered many options. In the end I settled for these three:

 

Asura Priest
One of the more obvious cards, since it punish goats in a way few other cards can. It's also light, and has few good answers. 

 

Spirit Reaper
While it doesn't handle goats, it applies pressure and demands an immediate answer. It is also a lot better pre-exarion since with no exarions there are also fewer Sakus. I consider reaper to be an extremely attacking card, because I almost always wait with it until I can charge it into a couple of backrows, hopefully making my opponent waste TT, Mirror or even Ring to knock him down. Their decision will provide me with knowledge, such as if their backrow is good or their hand is bad. 

 

D.D. Warrior Lady 
The last addition, and I added her to have some disposable power. She's also a good out to sangan and recruiters. I considered Chaos Sorcerer or Kycoo, but sorcerer can clogg, and kycoo dies to tsuk.

 

These are fairly obvious choices and I think they achieved the desired effect. No card can replace Exarion properly, but these three let me have good options both defensively and offensively. I did consider a second Asura instead of D.D., but they fill different roles, and I wanted the flexibility. 

 

The last change I made was cutting sakus for Dustshoots, and it was amazing. I know that many here consider it to be meh in goat, and I thought so too until I changed my approach to it. Instead of using asap, I try waiting until I either can plus 1 with it or I need perfect knowledge to do a high risk play. The only times I play it first turn are when I draw multiples or can follow up with a Delinquent Duo. If my opponent manages to read my dustshoot it doesn't bother me too much since setting too many cards will leave him wide open to a profitable heavy, and in goat there is a fairly good chance that they will fill up their hand again eventually. My favorite Dustshoots are when I can chain it to powercards, such as breaker or heavy storm. If I can pull the latter of in late game, it will probably win me the game, since they will use the heavy to prepare for some kind of major play, presumably with BLS. I can then take control of the game with perfect knowledge, no opposing heavy and probably some powercards of my own. 

 

A final note considering my sideboard, since I know there have been quite heated discussions of what is a good side in goat. I like cards that win me games outright, and I wanted to curbstomp alt win decks asap. Hence, Fusilier went in along with triple solemn, since few things says "eff you" like Last Warrior from Another Planet backed with protection. Necrovalley locks Chaos out of the game until they draw an out, likewise with the different kinds of Dimension fusion turbos out there. I honestly doesn't know how powerful Beast down is without triple exarion, but it's not a deck I'm very afraid of, so I considered Spy, swap and jinzo to be enough.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you arent playing tomato and it doesnt sound like your meta was very recruiter heavy so i don't know why you have reaper. deko would almost certainly be better as another card alongside your 2 merchants that you can abuse with tsuk

 

also local performances with dustshoot don't mean a lot to people on this site who have been punished over and over for playing it in standard goats by the best players here (Kris Allen etc)

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm good with dustshoot I always beat kris and Allen with it 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, mmf said:

you arent playing tomato and it doesnt sound like your meta was very recruiter heavy so i don't know why you have reaper. deko would almost certainly be better as another card alongside your 2 merchants that you can abuse with tsuk

 

also local performances with dustshoot don't mean a lot to people on this site who have been punished over and over for playing it in standard goats by the best players here (Kris Allen etc)

 

Why would I need to play tomato to make use of reaper? reaper has multiple uses both in defense and offense, aswell as providing tribute fodder. playing tomato to search either it or sangan seems profoundly unnecesary. I considered Deko, but the only thing it does is gain more cards, and I kinda felt that the two merchants filled that purpose. I also felt that without exarion, I needed cards that demanded answers, and I think Reaper fits that bill.

 

I've tested Dusthoot for months, but I havn't found the results I wanted until I changed my approach to the card. Since then, I've played a lot with it and of course, there are moments where it sucks, but no more than other cards such as NoC, Tsuk, Airknight and such. Many Cards in goat depend on you playing it at the correct time, and dustshoot is no different. I havn't played against either Kris or allen, but would you clarify how people are being punished for playing dustshoot over and over again? Because it is a extremely difficult card to play around, either you have to waste resources, make yourself vulnerable to heavy or just play into it, and none of the options seems bad from the dustshootplayers perspective.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was a mistake.  Oops.  I'd cut him out for a Skill Drain maybe.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, thejoker142 said:

Many Cards in goat depend on you playing it at the correct time, and dustshoot is no different.

Unfortunately, dustshoot isn't like those other cards: dustshoot, to be played at the correct time, also requires to be drawn at the correct time, and has made me lose huge numbers of games for the first month of goat during which I played it.

Goat Control is a deck that wins by grinding into the late game; dustshoot basically amounts to dead draw steps late game, and makes you frequently lose low CA mirrors.

Not all goat mirrors end up with huge hand midgames, and topdeck wars are moderately frequent and punish you for playing dustshoot unless your deck precipitated this gamestate, and that you have access to many beaters, the way Zoo or some of the weird AM Beat lists I've seen end up doing.

 

If you're a big fan of dustshoot, I suppose one way of making it work better would be to play a very aggressive goat deck with a low flip count and recruiters/abyss soldiers. 

Edited by Brandis72
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I beat Kris Perovic in a match.  My ego is slightly elevated but I'm gonna try not to get a big head.

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-06-12 at 7.12.21 PM.png

Screen Shot 2017-06-12 at 7.12.31 PM.png

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks like it's too late 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think banefulscolumn is a moron lol

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I think that makes you the new best goat player. All hail painfulscrotum.

Edited by Goins
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

baneful vs human tetherball for KotF finals, make it happen

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

In my experience, Trap Dustshoot has been an excellent card in my Goat builds.  Meeting the hand requirement is not a problem because many Goat players are conservative and inflate their hand with Sinister Serpent.

 

It's the only card that can realistically counter Sinister Serpent.  It stops the only spell/trap that stops Sangan without triggering its effect.  It's one of the few Trap Cards that can stop Jinzo.  Tsukuyomi and Asura Priest are difficult to counter.  If it gets rid of a Flip Effect, then it takes stress off of my 2 Noblemans, but it can also be used to shuffle a monster that's stronger than my beat-stick, forcing them into defensive play.  If they are short on LIGHT's or DARK's, I can starve their BLS.  Or I can stop cards like BLS, Sorcerer, Tribe, etc. before their priority.  I can make their Metamorphosis plays dead.  I can handle monster threats without filling their graveyard.  Whatever my field presence is, I can remove their out to it.  There are too many little situations to explain all of them, but stopping Morphing Jar plays (or preparing an out to them is excellent).

 

Central to Dustshoot's greatness is that most hands have 1-2 viable cards and 2-3 conserved cards.  Dustshoot puts the opponent in a position where their other cards are dead or they are forced to use the cards they planned on saving just to stay alive.  It's deck dependent, but my standard opening play is to summon Wanghu and setting Dustshoot to get rid of any monster that can get over it.

 

Hand knowledge is also a boon in many ways, and I'm even thankful for running the card when the opponent has no monsters in hand..  It instructs me how to play.  It tells me what traps they are going to set, and whether they're a bluff or not.  It tells me whether they're capable of baiting a Nobleman or whether my monsters are victim to Nobleman.  It informs me set a Dust to stop their Snatch, summon a Wanghu/trampler to stop their Goats, prepare for TER when its viable.  Cards in their hand can also infer what cards they have set on the field (i.e. if they're not using X, then what could Y be).  It saves me from minusing in so many scenarios.  Best of all, when it's apparent that they don't have any outs, I can go aggro and cut their life points in half.

 

Dustshoot makes my defense plays better because I can set 2 S/T's without fear of Heavy Storm.  And if they Dust Tornado it, I still have another trap card to protect me.  While I'm very careful with such matter, Dustshoot can 

 

It's a bad draw in late game, but most traps are.  Worst case scenario, Dustshoot has been Graceful/Tribe-food for me or a bluff (which the opponent usually takes).  

Edited by banefulscolumn
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Mascis said:

I think banefulscolumn is a moron lol

 

I'm a troll that's honest about it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, banefulscolumn said:

 

I'm a troll that's honest about it.

 

pretending to be retarded.jpg

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think 2 Breaker is extremely good and I can't believe no one tried this before @banefulscolumn which one of these is your standard list for pre-exarion goat that we can all netdeck?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean, it's the internet.  I post 5 deck image and of course the only one that gets attention is the one with the typo. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is everyone posting JUST to rag on this guy... come on!

Sure, you may not have a high opinion of him, but he's caused you no harm and his worst deeds were small-time foolishness and unskillful social interaction.

If he's not out to get you, why should you be out to get him?

If his attitude offends you THIS much, then you should probably PM him to explain what he did wrong in a constructive (*cough* not insulting him *cough*) way, and, with a little bit of luck, he'll understand and change.

At this point I'm honestly surprised the situation hasn't exploded; thankfully, the guy you're dealing with is pretty harmless, but this being proved shows that he presumably won't leave, regardless of what the community thinks, unless he's outright banned (something he ABSOLUTELY does not deserve).

Rather than having to deal with someone you love to hate, why not at least try to get him to change?

And if no one does it, I guess I will. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Brandis72 said:

Why is everyone posting JUST to rag on this guy... come on!

Sure, you may not have a high opinion of him, but he's caused you no harm and his worst deeds were small-time foolishness and unskillful social interaction.

If he's not out to get you, why should you be out to get him?

If his attitude offends you THIS much, then you should probably PM him to explain what he did wrong in a constructive (*cough* not insulting him *cough*) way, and, with a little bit of luck, he'll understand and change.

At this point I'm honestly surprised the situation hasn't exploded; thankfully, the guy you're dealing with is pretty harmless, but this being proved shows that he presumably won't leave, regardless of what the community thinks, unless he's outright banned (something he ABSOLUTELY does not deserve).

Rather than having to deal with someone you love to hate, why not at least try to get him to change?

And if no one does it, I guess I will. 

 

 

I agree that insulting him is not the way to go, but it's completely appropriate to explain why he's mistaken ITT. No need to use PMs.

 

You're being overly dramatic.

 

Humans never change.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, I guess my personal experiences were just weird; whenever this happened, it usually ended up pretty badly, and I'd hate to see that again.

As far as the third point is concerned, yeah, admittedly not ever going to be a fully solvable problem... but that doesn't mean we should drop it entirely; although our immorality will never directly be removed, it can be softened with a positive atmosphere.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jazz out here denying that humans can change but won't play MMF 2.0 IN GOATS

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, mmf said:

Jazz out here denying that humans can change but won't play MMF 2.0 IN GOATS

 

eeehhhh I'll play you tonight let's make it happen casual ranked goats get at me

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BET

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.