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The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 TCG/DB2 pre-NTR/CT2/CRV)

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Azn_Boy    378
18 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

i'm not suggesting trying to make rota work if you only have 3 warriors.

 

but let's say your deck is 40 cards with 5 warriors.  adding 2 rota to make it 42 shouldn't hurt.

You can just cut two bad warriors for two upstarts and that would be better than 5 warriors + 2 rotas in a 42 card deck. Both would still be bad.

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MZAAZM    309

Anyone going to gencon this year? would love to play some goats between events. 

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Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

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Sqirmywurmy    744
2 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

Your asking a lot of case by case questions haha but i'll try my best to help some, 

 

1. Yes you only increase the chances of them having serpent or whatever if u wait. There are times where u can try to set up a "pro faith" where u open duo + faith but set faith (presumably with a book or saku or something to protect it from an attack) and then on your t2 u play duo and faith the duo getting probably their whole hand. This can go very badly for a multitude of reasons though so i wouldn't recommend this be your default play, just something to keep in mind. 

 

2. I'd say this is one of the harder questions you ask because game states vary so much from game to game but generally i'd say if you feel your play for that turn is bad enough to the point where making it is almost assuredly losing then you should probably charity to give yourself new better and possibly winning options. also u can always draw serpent or chaos food off charity haha not some rule u can't :P. Another case i find is that if you are being tsuk + flip effect monster locked to the point where u absolutely must draw nobleman or meta or bls or what have you then firing off charity is usually just what u have to do. 

 

3. I'm still unsure of this myself, i tend to default to using it more often right away but this could definitely be wrong. 

 

4. Baiting noc, removing sangan or a threat like jinzo, bls etc. 

 

5. When the board state has gotten very stale and it is clear that my opponent is either unwilling or unable to pressure my sets or if my hand just sucks dick and i need them to noc it to have a chance in hell. 

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mark    3105
3 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

sometimes

eh you can graceful if your hand is good and you want to otk shot as well, I think you use it if you want/need to see certain cards that would make your play better vs the current board, so it depends on the gamestate more than your hand itself

 

I guess - I don't think I'm qualified to answer this question tbh

 

attacking until opp clears it, banishing serpent sangan bls etc, searching it off sangan rota, discarding/tributing for a light in grave (attacking into opp's spy :/)

 

if you have 2 or are low at LP or if you want to bait noc or need a dark in grave mainly 

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+Mascis    4557
6 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

1. Not always. Like a lot of things it depends on what I have, if im going first, if im going second and what my opponent did. I think it's mostly correct to duo t1 first turn of the game but if your hand is weak then the duo might not matter much. I believe that duo is a card that you want to maximize the value of the discard out of. 

 

2. Like everyone else basically people said, this question is kind of subjective. It really depends on what exactly is in your hand and what exactly your opponent has. Example, If you have a metamorph you can't use / know that metamorph isn't a strong card for the situation at hand, charity to discard it isn't too bad of a play.

 

3. If i know what the set card is, I would save Nobleman. If I read the card as Faith then duh I Nobleman. If my opponent just T-sets on the first turn and I have something like Breaker / Nobleman and I out there sets, I'm a good position regardless of what they have because I swung the tempo in my favor.

 

4.  I love Warrior Lady because it does three different things very well,

- Spot removal for threats / floaters (You trade a normal summon to get rid of Sangan or a Chaos Sorc, but you are mostly ok with this because it means you can save your traps for bigger threats)

- Removal baiter (Your opponent pretty much loses every battle they have with Warrior Lady since Warrior Lady brings the attacker with it to the banished zone)

- Damage dealer (1500 is no joke. Damage is super important to get through in goats and Warrior Lady is a great damage source because of it's stats and the two other jobs i listed)

 

5.  I'm not a fan of setting Tsuk. The reason why Tsuk is strong is because you can't really get rid of it by battle because it bounces back, so it forces you to use a card to remove it or keep it on the field so that you can kill it in battle. Setting Tsuk signals one of two things to me based how many cards my opponent has,

- My hand is weak

- I have another Tsuk / A better set

You may want to set Tsuk if you have back up / bait Nobleman, but you're risking a card that is an out to a lot of cards in format for a card that is pretty narrow. I think that getting your Flip monsters Nobleman'd isn't the end of the world. Trust me, I love setting Faith and hate losing it to Nobleman, but my game should be strong enough where I'm setting Faith knowing that if I get Nobleman'd here then I'm still in good shape and my opponent just lost Faith access. 

 

 

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Goins    37
On 2017-5-28 at 1:29 AM, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

 

- Almost aways.

- When to do so is in your best interests. Although there are other things that aren't bad to pitch outside of Sinister and Chaos fodder, such as Jar.

- Maybe before Magical Merchant / Dekoichi were commonplace you would have a reason to hold it but not anymore. Which makes Big Shield Gardna sleeper OP imo.

- What sqirmywurmy said.

- When to do so is in your best interests.

 

Edited by Goins

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DAD 4 GAME    46

If you're going first with Duo, there's almost no reason not to use it. The chance of the opponent having Serpent is very low.

A lot of people tend to hold their Graceful much longer than they should. If you're in a pretty poor position, and your best move without using Charity is subpar, then there's no point in the game going even more downhill just so you might be able to get a single +1 later on.

If your opponent went first and all they have is a t-set with no trinity in grave, then I would just hold the NoC and attack the set. If they waste resources protecting the set (like using BoM on a monster that's not a threat or using ring on something like sangan), then obviously you use NoC. If the opponent goes first and uses trinity or sets multiple backrow, then obviously you use NoC for the Faith or Jar.

 

You use it to pressure the opponent or out a problematic monster.

 

Very rarely, if ever, would you ever want to set Tsuku. Only maybe in situations where both of you are just setting and passing, and you don't want to discard anything for the hand size limit.



When you guys are facing HAM or whatever the reasoning/gate turbo deck is called, what exactly do you side in and out when playing a typical Goat deck? The deck is still very rare and in all honesty isn't that good outside of lucky wins when they open the nuts, so I don't know if siding things specifically for it is worth it, but losing to stuff like Reasoning+Gate+Chaos stuff is stupid.

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Brandis72    35

If you hate reasongate that much, Royal Oppression (at 3) is always an option.

TRoar combined with stuff like Vortex also should get the job done.

But, in general, there's absolutely no point in sideboarding vs Gate, seeing as if you're playing a match to begin with, the deck loses 90% of the time due to its HORRIBLE consistency.

If it doesn't open the nuts, the deck just dies to 1/1 backrow and has absolutely no recovery due to its atrocious topdecks.

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Azn_Boy    378

Better off probably just cutting a tsuku to make it 40. Or cut both and play ROTA.

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Jazz    5331
On 5/28/2017 at 2:29 AM, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

1. Almost never. More often if I go first. More often if my hand is bad. I prefer to wait until my opponent has 4 cards or fewer in hand. 3 cards is ideal. I sometimes prefer to set Faith before I activate Duo to "mask" Faith.

 

2. Any time I can't make a "good" play and my hand is putting me at a significant disadvantage in the current game state, I fire off graceful. I do this a lot more often than most players, but I only do it when I need to. Basically you have to be really good at evaluating the game state and what your current hand can do for you, and whether the odds of what you need to draw off those next 3 cards are high. For example, in some game states, I really want a flip effect monster to set, but I don't have one--I will fire off Graceful because I have a good chance to draw one and it will put me at a great spot in the game.

 

3. If I have a monster I want to summon to attack with, and if I read the facedown monster across from me as mostly harmless, I feel ok holding noc. I feel even better holding noc if I have tsuku. Usually though, I fire off noc right away or very early. I would always prefer to fire off noc if I am going to set a monster myself.

 

4. It's pretty useless but there aren't many better cards in the format. It's a good card to set. It's an okay card to attack directly with in a simplified game state. It's an okay card to occassionally snipe sinister. It's a solid body to fill your grave with an extra target for call/prema. It's a solid card to summon without any backrow behind it.

 

5. Only if I really really want to bait noc for some reason, but there are usually better baits. That, or if I am desperate to tribute summon airknight. On some occasions, to block Sangan attacks.

 

:)

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Jazz    5331
18 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

My current build.

 

CnrVFxx.png

 

Your monsters are redundant and will fail to generate advantage for you in most situations. This loses badly to a standard Goat Control deck with 3 meta and flip effects. 3 copies of DDA serves no purpose whatsoever. Find better monsters.

 

Lightning vortex is bad in general outside of dimension fusion decks.

 

It makes no sense to play scapegoat+tsukuyomi without playing meta. The entire reason to play Goat Control is to max 3 copies of meta.

 

And Reaper directly conflicts with dustshoot don't use those cards together.

Edited by Jazz

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+scuzzlebutt    23495

reaper and dustshoot are fine but that monster lineup is absolutely not

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Jazz    5331
On 6/4/2017 at 10:44 AM, mmf said:

reaper and dustshoot are fine but that monster lineup is absolutely not

 

How?

 

Reaper attacks first, Dustshoot cannot activate later. Your opponent knows you have Dustshoot, they play around it by setting more backrow which can block Reaper.

 

They have negative synergy with each other which is something to avoid in deck construction.

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+Mascis    4557

How about you get good and active dustshoot first then hit them with reaper 

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+scuzzlebutt    23495
37 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

How?

 

Reaper attacks first, Dustshoot cannot activate later. Your opponent knows you have Dustshoot, they play around it by setting more backrow which can block Reaper.

 

They have negative synergy with each other which is something to avoid in deck construction.

but how will i activate my pot of duality if thunder KING RAIOH ON MY FIELD ??????????

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Jazz    5331
2 hours ago, Mascis said:

How about you get good and active dustshoot first then hit them with reaper 

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

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+scuzzlebutt    23495

 

29 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

Because you will always draw Reaper before Dustshoot every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

 

1) how many dustshoots/reapers each do you think these decks are playing?

2) drawing dustshoot late is going to suck regardless of if you're playing reaper or not, cutting reaper doesn't get you anywhere in that regard

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+Mascis    4557
1 hour ago, Jazz said:

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

Yes. I'm that good

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Brandis72    35

Why talk specifically about optimal scenarios... I mean, sure, it'll cause no problem every now and then, but sometimes it'll also just completely flop just like Jazz said it can.

Besides, why would you use a deck that has both reaper and dustshoot in it???  Dustshoot is good in aggressive decks, and reaper is a defensive/controlly card.

The real question is: do you want to play Zoo, or do you want to play Goat, because going in the middle leads to pretty mediocre decks that lose in both matchups.

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I can lose some aggro in my Goat deck but Wanghu has been an absolute blessing.  The 3 operative cards of Goat Format are Tsukuyomi, Thousand-Eyes Restrict and Scapegoat; Wanghu handles them all.  

 

Best of all, it forces usage of removal and power cards.  Countless times Wanghu has drawn out Snatch Steal and Sakuretsu Armor so they couldn't be used against my Airknight.

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Got a monthly (Exarion) Goat tournament started at my local shop (All the King's Men in Pitman NJ) and swept it with this Zoo list today:

Monsters: 17
3 Berserk Gorilla
3 Exarion Universe
2 Abyss Soldier
1 Sinister Serpent
1 Breaker the Magical Warrior
1 Tribe-Infecting Virus
1 D.D. Assailant
1 Exiled Force
1 D.D. Warrior Lady
1 Blade Knight
1 Bazoo the Soul Eater
1 Sangan

Spells: 9
2 Nobleman of Crossout
1 Pot of Greed
1 Premature Burial
1 Graceful Charity
1 Reinforcement of the Army
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Delinquent Duo
1 Heavy Storm

Traps: 14
3 Trap Dustshoot
2 Dust Tornado
2 Sakuretsu Armor
2 Compulsory Evacuation Device
1 Ring of Destruction
1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Call of the Haunted
1 Skill Drain

 

Side:
2 Book of Moon
1 Sakuretsu Armor
2 Dekoichi the Battlechanted Locomotive
2 Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
1 Mobius the Frost Monarch
1 Mystic Swordsman Lv2
2 Smashing Ground
3 Mind Crush
1 Dust Tornado

Compulses were pretty sweet, an answer to TER that doubles as a monster in a pinch by protecting a dude from removal was pretty sweet. Blade Knight didn't come up too much, in the 4 rounds I played it killed a Jar, and poked for damage a few times. Not exciting, but did what I expected it to do. 
Only played against actual goat control twice, the other two rounds were a Zoo mirror, and Zombies, so the tech cards weren't at their best there. Compulses traded with Sakuretsus a lot. The other Zoo deck in the tournament was the guy I beat round 1, who won out to claim 2nd place.

 

Turnout wasn't exciting, hoping to get a few more people for next month's event. Bunch of people cancelled last minute which was unfortunate. 

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