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The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 TCG/DB2 pre-NTR/CT2/CRV)

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+Mascis    4566
6 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

1. Not always. Like a lot of things it depends on what I have, if im going first, if im going second and what my opponent did. I think it's mostly correct to duo t1 first turn of the game but if your hand is weak then the duo might not matter much. I believe that duo is a card that you want to maximize the value of the discard out of. 

 

2. Like everyone else basically people said, this question is kind of subjective. It really depends on what exactly is in your hand and what exactly your opponent has. Example, If you have a metamorph you can't use / know that metamorph isn't a strong card for the situation at hand, charity to discard it isn't too bad of a play.

 

3. If i know what the set card is, I would save Nobleman. If I read the card as Faith then duh I Nobleman. If my opponent just T-sets on the first turn and I have something like Breaker / Nobleman and I out there sets, I'm a good position regardless of what they have because I swung the tempo in my favor.

 

4.  I love Warrior Lady because it does three different things very well,

- Spot removal for threats / floaters (You trade a normal summon to get rid of Sangan or a Chaos Sorc, but you are mostly ok with this because it means you can save your traps for bigger threats)

- Removal baiter (Your opponent pretty much loses every battle they have with Warrior Lady since Warrior Lady brings the attacker with it to the banished zone)

- Damage dealer (1500 is no joke. Damage is super important to get through in goats and Warrior Lady is a great damage source because of it's stats and the two other jobs i listed)

 

5.  I'm not a fan of setting Tsuk. The reason why Tsuk is strong is because you can't really get rid of it by battle because it bounces back, so it forces you to use a card to remove it or keep it on the field so that you can kill it in battle. Setting Tsuk signals one of two things to me based how many cards my opponent has,

- My hand is weak

- I have another Tsuk / A better set

You may want to set Tsuk if you have back up / bait Nobleman, but you're risking a card that is an out to a lot of cards in format for a card that is pretty narrow. I think that getting your Flip monsters Nobleman'd isn't the end of the world. Trust me, I love setting Faith and hate losing it to Nobleman, but my game should be strong enough where I'm setting Faith knowing that if I get Nobleman'd here then I'm still in good shape and my opponent just lost Faith access. 

 

 

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Goins    37
On 2017-5-28 at 1:29 AM, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

 

- Almost aways.

- When to do so is in your best interests. Although there are other things that aren't bad to pitch outside of Sinister and Chaos fodder, such as Jar.

- Maybe before Magical Merchant / Dekoichi were commonplace you would have a reason to hold it but not anymore. Which makes Big Shield Gardna sleeper OP imo.

- What sqirmywurmy said.

- When to do so is in your best interests.

 

Edited by Goins

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DAD 4 GAME    46

If you're going first with Duo, there's almost no reason not to use it. The chance of the opponent having Serpent is very low.

A lot of people tend to hold their Graceful much longer than they should. If you're in a pretty poor position, and your best move without using Charity is subpar, then there's no point in the game going even more downhill just so you might be able to get a single +1 later on.

If your opponent went first and all they have is a t-set with no trinity in grave, then I would just hold the NoC and attack the set. If they waste resources protecting the set (like using BoM on a monster that's not a threat or using ring on something like sangan), then obviously you use NoC. If the opponent goes first and uses trinity or sets multiple backrow, then obviously you use NoC for the Faith or Jar.

 

You use it to pressure the opponent or out a problematic monster.

 

Very rarely, if ever, would you ever want to set Tsuku. Only maybe in situations where both of you are just setting and passing, and you don't want to discard anything for the hand size limit.



When you guys are facing HAM or whatever the reasoning/gate turbo deck is called, what exactly do you side in and out when playing a typical Goat deck? The deck is still very rare and in all honesty isn't that good outside of lucky wins when they open the nuts, so I don't know if siding things specifically for it is worth it, but losing to stuff like Reasoning+Gate+Chaos stuff is stupid.

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Brandis72    40

If you hate reasongate that much, Royal Oppression (at 3) is always an option.

TRoar combined with stuff like Vortex also should get the job done.

But, in general, there's absolutely no point in sideboarding vs Gate, seeing as if you're playing a match to begin with, the deck loses 90% of the time due to its HORRIBLE consistency.

If it doesn't open the nuts, the deck just dies to 1/1 backrow and has absolutely no recovery due to its atrocious topdecks.

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Azn_Boy    378

Better off probably just cutting a tsuku to make it 40. Or cut both and play ROTA.

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+Jazz    5537
On 5/28/2017 at 2:29 AM, banefulscolumn said:

Questions for Goat players:

 

Do you Delinquent on the first turn?

How bad does your game state have to be to use Graceful Charity without Sinister or Chaos-food?

Are there situations where you wouldn't use Nobleman of Crossout ASAP?

What is your most frequent use for D.D. Warrior Lady?

On what occasion do you set Tsukuyomi?

 

 

1. Almost never. More often if I go first. More often if my hand is bad. I prefer to wait until my opponent has 4 cards or fewer in hand. 3 cards is ideal. I sometimes prefer to set Faith before I activate Duo to "mask" Faith.

 

2. Any time I can't make a "good" play and my hand is putting me at a significant disadvantage in the current game state, I fire off graceful. I do this a lot more often than most players, but I only do it when I need to. Basically you have to be really good at evaluating the game state and what your current hand can do for you, and whether the odds of what you need to draw off those next 3 cards are high. For example, in some game states, I really want a flip effect monster to set, but I don't have one--I will fire off Graceful because I have a good chance to draw one and it will put me at a great spot in the game.

 

3. If I have a monster I want to summon to attack with, and if I read the facedown monster across from me as mostly harmless, I feel ok holding noc. I feel even better holding noc if I have tsuku. Usually though, I fire off noc right away or very early. I would always prefer to fire off noc if I am going to set a monster myself.

 

4. It's pretty useless but there aren't many better cards in the format. It's a good card to set. It's an okay card to attack directly with in a simplified game state. It's an okay card to occassionally snipe sinister. It's a solid body to fill your grave with an extra target for call/prema. It's a solid card to summon without any backrow behind it.

 

5. Only if I really really want to bait noc for some reason, but there are usually better baits. That, or if I am desperate to tribute summon airknight. On some occasions, to block Sangan attacks.

 

:)

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+Jazz    5537
18 hours ago, banefulscolumn said:

My current build.

 

CnrVFxx.png

 

Your monsters are redundant and will fail to generate advantage for you in most situations. This loses badly to a standard Goat Control deck with 3 meta and flip effects. 3 copies of DDA serves no purpose whatsoever. Find better monsters.

 

Lightning vortex is bad in general outside of dimension fusion decks.

 

It makes no sense to play scapegoat+tsukuyomi without playing meta. The entire reason to play Goat Control is to max 3 copies of meta.

 

And Reaper directly conflicts with dustshoot don't use those cards together.

Edited by Jazz

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+scuzzlebutt    23565

reaper and dustshoot are fine but that monster lineup is absolutely not

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+Jazz    5537
On 6/4/2017 at 10:44 AM, mmf said:

reaper and dustshoot are fine but that monster lineup is absolutely not

 

How?

 

Reaper attacks first, Dustshoot cannot activate later. Your opponent knows you have Dustshoot, they play around it by setting more backrow which can block Reaper.

 

They have negative synergy with each other which is something to avoid in deck construction.

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+Mascis    4566

How about you get good and active dustshoot first then hit them with reaper 

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+scuzzlebutt    23565
37 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

How?

 

Reaper attacks first, Dustshoot cannot activate later. Your opponent knows you have Dustshoot, they play around it by setting more backrow which can block Reaper.

 

They have negative synergy with each other which is something to avoid in deck construction.

but how will i activate my pot of duality if thunder KING RAIOH ON MY FIELD ??????????

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+Jazz    5537
2 hours ago, Mascis said:

How about you get good and active dustshoot first then hit them with reaper 

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

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+scuzzlebutt    23565

 

29 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

Because you will always draw Reaper before Dustshoot every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

 

1) how many dustshoots/reapers each do you think these decks are playing?

2) drawing dustshoot late is going to suck regardless of if you're playing reaper or not, cutting reaper doesn't get you anywhere in that regard

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+Mascis    4566
1 hour ago, Jazz said:

 

Because you will always draw Dustshoot before Reaper every game right.

 

:rolleyes:

Yes. I'm that good

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Brandis72    40

Why talk specifically about optimal scenarios... I mean, sure, it'll cause no problem every now and then, but sometimes it'll also just completely flop just like Jazz said it can.

Besides, why would you use a deck that has both reaper and dustshoot in it???  Dustshoot is good in aggressive decks, and reaper is a defensive/controlly card.

The real question is: do you want to play Zoo, or do you want to play Goat, because going in the middle leads to pretty mediocre decks that lose in both matchups.

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I can lose some aggro in my Goat deck but Wanghu has been an absolute blessing.  The 3 operative cards of Goat Format are Tsukuyomi, Thousand-Eyes Restrict and Scapegoat; Wanghu handles them all.  

 

Best of all, it forces usage of removal and power cards.  Countless times Wanghu has drawn out Snatch Steal and Sakuretsu Armor so they couldn't be used against my Airknight.

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Got a monthly (Exarion) Goat tournament started at my local shop (All the King's Men in Pitman NJ) and swept it with this Zoo list today:

Monsters: 17
3 Berserk Gorilla
3 Exarion Universe
2 Abyss Soldier
1 Sinister Serpent
1 Breaker the Magical Warrior
1 Tribe-Infecting Virus
1 D.D. Assailant
1 Exiled Force
1 D.D. Warrior Lady
1 Blade Knight
1 Bazoo the Soul Eater
1 Sangan

Spells: 9
2 Nobleman of Crossout
1 Pot of Greed
1 Premature Burial
1 Graceful Charity
1 Reinforcement of the Army
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Delinquent Duo
1 Heavy Storm

Traps: 14
3 Trap Dustshoot
2 Dust Tornado
2 Sakuretsu Armor
2 Compulsory Evacuation Device
1 Ring of Destruction
1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Call of the Haunted
1 Skill Drain

 

Side:
2 Book of Moon
1 Sakuretsu Armor
2 Dekoichi the Battlechanted Locomotive
2 Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
1 Mobius the Frost Monarch
1 Mystic Swordsman Lv2
2 Smashing Ground
3 Mind Crush
1 Dust Tornado

Compulses were pretty sweet, an answer to TER that doubles as a monster in a pinch by protecting a dude from removal was pretty sweet. Blade Knight didn't come up too much, in the 4 rounds I played it killed a Jar, and poked for damage a few times. Not exciting, but did what I expected it to do. 
Only played against actual goat control twice, the other two rounds were a Zoo mirror, and Zombies, so the tech cards weren't at their best there. Compulses traded with Sakuretsus a lot. The other Zoo deck in the tournament was the guy I beat round 1, who won out to claim 2nd place.

 

Turnout wasn't exciting, hoping to get a few more people for next month's event. Bunch of people cancelled last minute which was unfortunate. 

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+scuzzlebutt    23565
On 6/11/2017 at 6:46 AM, Brandis72 said:

Why talk specifically about optimal scenarios... I mean, sure, it'll cause no problem every now and then, but sometimes it'll also just completely flop just like Jazz said it can.

Besides, why would you use a deck that has both reaper and dustshoot in it???  Dustshoot is good in aggressive decks, and reaper is a defensive/controlly card.

The real question is: do you want to play Zoo, or do you want to play Goat, because going in the middle leads to pretty mediocre decks that lose in both matchups.

why

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20 hours ago, Bazaar of Baghdad said:

Got a monthly (Exarion) Goat tournament started at my local shop (All the King's Men in Pitman NJ) and swept it with this Zoo list today...

 
Only played against actual goat control twice, the other two rounds were a Zoo mirror, and Zombies, so the tech cards weren't at their best there. Compulses traded with Sakuretsus a lot. The other Zoo deck in the tournament was the guy I beat round 1, who won out to claim 2nd place.

 

Turnout wasn't exciting, hoping to get a few more people for next month's event. Bunch of people cancelled last minute which was unfortunate. 


Sweet list. I've been to a couple post-Exarion goat locals and Zoo took both, I wonder if it's coincidence or data.

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thejoker142    2

I played a goattournament (pre-exarion) a couple of weeks ago, and I'd like to discuss some of my choices and see what you guys think. I went 4-0, and my buddy who played the same build went 3-1, losing only to me. Without further ado, here's my list:

 

Monsters: (17)
2 Tsukuyomi
2 Airknight Parshath 
2 Magical Merchant
2 Magician of Faith
1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
1 Sangan
1 Morphing Jar
1 Sinister Serpent
1 Asura Priest
1 D.D. Warrior Lady
1 Spirit Reaper
1 Breaker the Magical Warrior
1 Tribe-Infecting Virus

 

Spells: (16)
3 Metamorphosis
2 Book of Moon
2 Nobleman of Crossout
2 Scapegoat
1 Pot of Greed
1 Delinquent Duo
1 Graceful Charity
1 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Heavy Storm
1 Snatch Steal
1 Premature Burial

 

Traps: (7)
2 Trap Dustshoot
1 Dust Tornado
1 Ring of Destruction
1 Call of the Haunted
1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute

 

Side:
2 Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast
2 Gravekeeper's Spy
1 Jinzo
2 Creature Swap
2 Necrovalley
1 Scapegoat
3 Solemn Judgement
2 Royal Decree

 

So, obviously it's inspired by Perovics exarion build, with tweaks to fit the pre-exarion meta. The most obvious difficulty was to replace the pressure and presence of exarion, and I considered many options. In the end I settled for these three:

 

Asura Priest
One of the more obvious cards, since it punish goats in a way few other cards can. It's also light, and has few good answers. 

 

Spirit Reaper
While it doesn't handle goats, it applies pressure and demands an immediate answer. It is also a lot better pre-exarion since with no exarions there are also fewer Sakus. I consider reaper to be an extremely attacking card, because I almost always wait with it until I can charge it into a couple of backrows, hopefully making my opponent waste TT, Mirror or even Ring to knock him down. Their decision will provide me with knowledge, such as if their backrow is good or their hand is bad. 

 

D.D. Warrior Lady 
The last addition, and I added her to have some disposable power. She's also a good out to sangan and recruiters. I considered Chaos Sorcerer or Kycoo, but sorcerer can clogg, and kycoo dies to tsuk.

 

These are fairly obvious choices and I think they achieved the desired effect. No card can replace Exarion properly, but these three let me have good options both defensively and offensively. I did consider a second Asura instead of D.D., but they fill different roles, and I wanted the flexibility. 

 

The last change I made was cutting sakus for Dustshoots, and it was amazing. I know that many here consider it to be meh in goat, and I thought so too until I changed my approach to it. Instead of using asap, I try waiting until I either can plus 1 with it or I need perfect knowledge to do a high risk play. The only times I play it first turn are when I draw multiples or can follow up with a Delinquent Duo. If my opponent manages to read my dustshoot it doesn't bother me too much since setting too many cards will leave him wide open to a profitable heavy, and in goat there is a fairly good chance that they will fill up their hand again eventually. My favorite Dustshoots are when I can chain it to powercards, such as breaker or heavy storm. If I can pull the latter of in late game, it will probably win me the game, since they will use the heavy to prepare for some kind of major play, presumably with BLS. I can then take control of the game with perfect knowledge, no opposing heavy and probably some powercards of my own. 

 

A final note considering my sideboard, since I know there have been quite heated discussions of what is a good side in goat. I like cards that win me games outright, and I wanted to curbstomp alt win decks asap. Hence, Fusilier went in along with triple solemn, since few things says "eff you" like Last Warrior from Another Planet backed with protection. Necrovalley locks Chaos out of the game until they draw an out, likewise with the different kinds of Dimension fusion turbos out there. I honestly doesn't know how powerful Beast down is without triple exarion, but it's not a deck I'm very afraid of, so I considered Spy, swap and jinzo to be enough.

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+scuzzlebutt    23565

you arent playing tomato and it doesnt sound like your meta was very recruiter heavy so i don't know why you have reaper. deko would almost certainly be better as another card alongside your 2 merchants that you can abuse with tsuk

 

also local performances with dustshoot don't mean a lot to people on this site who have been punished over and over for playing it in standard goats by the best players here (Kris Allen etc)

 

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+Mascis    4566

I'm good with dustshoot I always beat kris and Allen with it 

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