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The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 TCG/DB2 pre-NTR/CT2/CRV)

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nacholibre    56

So I played around with the deck above and I think I found some good improvements. It is not perfect by any means but it can get pretty absurd at times. No NoC because I don't want to give my opponent free monsters with Dimension Fusion, and I have Blowback for that. Fusilier is a 2800 with Dimension Fusion, which is important to deliver a lot of OTKs. With all these Machines, Meta is not needed, although it can be used to get TER out. The rest is pretty self-explanatory. Getting Cyber Jar with Monster Gate sucks though, i'm working on a way to fix that.

 

1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning

1 Dark Magician of Chaos

3 Blowback Dragon

3 Bazoo the Soul-Eater

3 Dekoichi the Battlechanted Locomotive

3 Sacred Crane

2 Fusilier Dragon, the Dual-Mode Beast

1 Tribe-Infecting Virus

1 Cyber Jar

 

3 Dimension Fusion

3 Limiter Removal

3 Giant Trunade

3 Monster Gate

3 Scapegoat

2 Enemy Controller

1 Pot of Greed

1 Graceful Charity

1 Premature Burial

1 Snatch Steal

1 Lightning Vortex

 

Any new ideas are appreciated.

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+Jazz    5529

Testing some more "modern" concepts in my "optimal flip flop" list. Mostly inspired by newgioh, and all the games in goats I lose due to airknight/prema/call engine failing to set up properly. Looking to eliminate inefficiencies and hone in on the easy advantage:

 

eomURYh.png

 

I also like that not playing prema gives me another 800 of LP buffer.

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nacholibre    56

Testing some more "modern" concepts in my "optimal flip flop" list. Mostly inspired by newgioh, and all the games in goats I lose due to airknight/prema/call engine failing to set up properly. Looking to eliminate inefficiencies and hone in on the easy advantage:
 
eomURYh.png
 
I also like that not playing prema gives me another 800 of LP buffer.

I'll admit, Jar of Greed and Time Seal look weird. I can see how you would slow roll them and bait their MST and Dust. I also played a Chaos deck with two Good Goblin Housekeeping instead of the 2 Upstart and I loved that you could just set them and let your opponent Heavy/MST/Dust them. But I can see them being horrible topdecks too. Especially Time Seal. Yes, Time Seal is good if you have the advantage, but if you're behind in advantage or if your opponent has a strong field then Time Seal is just not what you want to have. I would consider cutting 1 at least.

3 Meta is standard nowadays, but Chain Disappereance is finally seeing some play. I would be careful with running 3.

No Tribe? Tribe is too good not to play imo, even with the extra Sorcerer. But what works for you works for you I guess.

Zaborg is good anti meta. I would think about a Saku or two to catch their Tsukuyomi.

Have you thought about Mask of Darkness and/or Night Assailant?

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+Jazz    5529
Good goblin house keeping is garbage. First copy is a -1. Second is even. Third is plus. Is it even at 3 though? Idr. Either way it is strictly inferior to Jar of Greed.

Tribe is mediocre too. A card that only comboes with serpent and generally gets run over eventually. Even after you get the plus with tribe, it gets canceled out because it gets run over. Rather spend my normal summons on better monsters. It's an easy "staple" to go without. Vastly overrated.

Meta is the heart of the deck. CD is only a problem if it hits TER #1. Very unlikely. I'll take the chance I breaker first or the opp is waiting for a very specific situation. Finally meta on Zaborg or sorcerer or BLS is an acceptable play.

Thought about Mask. Night assailant is so inconsistent. If I wanted to use turbo I would use turbo. I've railed against that deck forever, so don't even get me started.

Mask is more interesting but only for the seal lock combo. I'd rather have the more consistent early game play in Dekoichi, or the more game breaking morphing jar.

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Metamorpot    1
I'm not a fan of that build personally. Its cool but I think it has some major issues.
 
I assume this list is pre-exarion so that should be that covered, but if not, I strongly believe he is present in an "optimal" list (although I think Asura priest is too good to pass up in pre-exarion because triple goat is more standard).
 
No Tribe-Infecting Virus actually really hurts your ability to win. It is the single best card in the deck for setting up uncontested lethals. I also used to think it was a crappy card because it would get its plus with Sinister and then get run over and its stats felt too awkward, but the card isn't about getting a +1, its about being a Raigeki on legs in a format of Scapegoats. Being able to hold it for game or to clear out any threat, or even just to deal with sticky garbage in Monarch builds like Gravekeeper's Spies make it too strong to cut imo. Obviously without Airknights in the deck it loses some value, but then again, I don't particularly agree with 0 Airknights either.
 
I really hate no Premature Burial/Call of the Haunted. Even without any Airknights, you have a BLS and a Sorcerer, and being able to drop your BLS earlier because you have Prem/Call to back it up is huge. You are also running double Zaborg, so tribute fodder actually becomes important, and Prem/Call give you access to a monster on board without blowing your normal summon - if you can access Sangan, even better. Otherwise, Prem opens up game shots just as TIV does, and the card is obviously worth a lot more than 800 life points.
 
Overall the defence in the deck is really low as well. 0/2 Saku/Goats, 1 Book and a couple of staple traps provides very little to protect your TERs and Zaborgs from Tsukuyomi, and your monster line up is slightly weaker to NoC than the average build, so a bit of protection for your life could go a long way as well.
 
The Jars and Times Seals are really fun and cool but aside from Breaker (who basically has to go in blind) people don't often throw their MST and Dusts at face down back rows for no reason (or rather - they shouldn't) so I feel like those kinds of traps will lay dormant on the board for a number of turns, and by the time your opponent is looking to press for some damage, they will have a decent idea that your back row doesn't pose any real threat to their plans.
 
I have no qualms with triple Meta - I think its great. I also think Dustshoot in the main is fine albeit a bit gay (nohomophobe), I actually prefer them sided but if you draw it at a decent time and can capitalise on it then its obviously broken, so fair play.
 
I Don't mean to be overly critical, and I think your idea is pretty cool, but I think cutting major game ending shit like TIV and Prem isn't the way to go about implementing it. Rather build something that isn't Goat Control that fits the idea better (like Tusku control or something). I think the kind of wacky tech you are running in Jars/Time Seal (as well as other weirdness like Dark Coffin) are more solid in October 2005 format where everyone is running 3 Sakus and 2 Widespreads and there is incentive to blind MST/Dust because nothing is chainable. Back row destruction in goat format just gets held until its actually needed because basic 1 for 1s with no follow-up play are really sub-optimal in the format, so the jars/seals will rarely get their value.

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nacholibre    56

I also think that Premature and Call are too good not to play. They are staples for a reason. Maybe we can argue about Call, but Premature is definately a staple. Same thing with Tribe. Jinzo seems like a big problem too, as without Tribe your only realistic options are TER (which they can Book), Zaborg (where you need a tribute) and BLS/Sorc (you need a light/dark). No Premature means you can't Zaborg for the double kill, and you only run 1 Book. I think you really need more removal here.

 

Still, this whole Jar of Greed/Time Seal stuff looks very suspect to me. You could just play the standard Saku/Dust/Book instead of those and have a lot more security. Have you actually tested this? Maybe I'm wrong, and if this actually works, then great. It would be awesome if some new cards could emerge. But I still think that Time Seal would be better off in a dedicated Mask of Darkness deck.

 

Anyway, what do you guys think about tribute monsters? I really think there are many viable options in a "normal" Goat Control list. I have played Jinzo + Airknight for a while, then tried double Airknight, Airknight + Zaborg (this is what I played way back in 2005), Jinzo + Zaborg and even stuff like DMoC. As of late, I have been playing a zombie build with 2 Vampire Lord as well as a build with Phoenix + Airknight and they are both amazing. Considering that DDWL has lost it's staple status, and cards like DDA and Bottomless are rarely seen, both Phoenix and Vampire Lord become very hard to stop with the right support. Very often, I was able to get huge plusses with these guys, as a lot of people were forced to play their destruction on them to avoid too much damage. In the zombie build, the opponent's Exarion now becomes a walking target for Pyramid Turtle, and Phoenix was just broke with our own Torrential/Ring. Personally, I never missed Jinzo or Airknight when I played with these guys, so I'm curious to see what people think about them.

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MZAAZM    309

fairly standard goat build. Sides been good against burn, and otk dfusion builds. 

 

Lczztym.png

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»Logic    2049
Holy crap Trio is such a better idea than the Oppressions I was siding. Sick list.

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»Logic    2049
I've been working on monarchs a lot lately. Still a work in progress, but it has a positive record versus DN randoms.

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nacholibre    56

Oppression covers Reasoning and Monster Gate, and also negates Cyber Jar. Ojama Trio is still good though. And siding against Burn was standard in 2005, but in 2015 I faced Burn like once or twice on DN. No one plays it.

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Metamorpot    1

Oppression never really gets value because in goat format you couldn't flip oppression and activate its effect in the same chain, you always have to flip it prematurely and it just sits there being ignored until breaker happens. Its also not game changing enough in a format that doesn't contain any decks that aim to special summon multiple times in a turn as the only win condition (ie every deck ever post PTDN). The format is slow and most of the decks in it thrive on it being slow, so stalling until Oppression can be dealt with (or just using other options that do not require you to deal with it at all) is something that every deck can do with relative ease. Additionally its only going to be coming in game 2 and 3, when you know there will be multiple dust tornadoes (if they weren't in the main already).

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»Logic    2049
Ive won every game verse HAM and reasogate variants that Dfusion didn't resolve.

Trio also stops Goats, can't ask for more than that.

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Spooky386    1

Hey guys, I've been lurking for a while now, but I wanted to post to ask a question or two. 

1) A local card shop and I are working together to host a goat format tournament (details below) and I was wondering where you all think I should try to advertise it in order to ensure the highest turn out we can get. I figured this would be a good place to start, though. 

2) Are there any websites beyond the now defunct metagame.com that still have tournament coverage and information from the goat format era? Things like deck lists, deck techs, feature matches, etc? I've been trying to find anything that listed regional top 8 deck lists form the time, or anything similar, and I can't find much. Just pojo.com, the occasional TCGplayer.com list, and Metagame. 

Tournament information for those interested:

Date: November 14th (Saturday) 2015
Location: Get Your Game On - 310 State Street, Ann Arbor, MI, 48104
Registration: 1:00pm - Start Time: 2:00pm
Format: Goat Format- April 2005 Banlist / Card pool = All sets and tins up to and including The Lost Millennium / No Cybernetic Revolution / No Exarion Universe / No Cyber Stein / All archetypes adhering to the banlist are legal. 

Tournament Structure- Swiss with cut to top 8 or top 4, depending on participation. 

Cost: $5 Entry fee
Prizes- Based on Participation
In order to ensure the highest turn out possible, this tournament will be 100% proxy legal.
Questions? Email me at Abonire@gmail.com 

I have also started work on a google doc that contains almost every possible archetype from the time, with sample lists. It is not complete, and I'm sure some of the lists could be improved upon, but if you guys are interested you can take a look and give me your 2 cents. In relation to this, I was hoping someone could give me some lists of archetypes that I see listed in places, but with no real explanation or list to work form. Things like Monster Gate/Reasoning combo, HAM, and Turbo Chaos. If someone could post sample lists of these  I would very much appreciate it. 

Thanks for your time and help! 

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ggggg    3657

check kris perovic's website because he has archived everything which is pretty stupid but whatever.

 

must enjoy keeping pictures of underage boys on his website or something.

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nacholibre    56

I wouldn't say that Oppression is bad, although I admit it is difficult to use right. I think the main problem it has is that most DFusion builds also run multiple Giant Trunade, and playing Trunade before they OTK you is what they were going to do regardless. Breaker is not that of a problem because when the Oppressions are sided in game 2, very often you will see a pair of BTH sided in together with them. The great thing about Oppression is the amount of ground it covers, besides Reasoning/Gate/DFusion it can also stop Empty Jar, Rescue Cat and DMoC/Mass Driver OTK. I think that Oppression shouldn't be used as the main counter to these decks, but more like additional support against them.
 

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Spooky386    1

check kris perovic's website because he has archived everything which is pretty stupid but whatever.

 

must enjoy keeping pictures of underage boys on his website or something.

What is his website? Are you referring to alterealitygames.com? 

Perhaps you mean this website? (http://formatlibrary.weebly.com/goats/goat-control-deck-gallery). If so, this site seems unfinished, and it looks like it has been a white since anyone has edited or updated it. 

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ggggg    3657

 

check kris perovic's website because he has archived everything which is pretty stupid but whatever.

 

must enjoy keeping pictures of underage boys on his website or something.

What is his website? Are you referring to alterealitygames.com? 

Perhaps you mean this website? (http://formatlibrary.weebly.com/goats/goat-control-deck-gallery). If so, this site seems unfinished, and it looks like it has been a white since anyone has edited or updated it. 

 

http://kperovic.com/metagame/yugioh/default.html

 

am i really that good at google

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Spooky386    1

 

 

check kris perovic's website because he has archived everything which is pretty stupid but whatever.

 

must enjoy keeping pictures of underage boys on his website or something.

What is his website? Are you referring to alterealitygames.com? 

Perhaps you mean this website? (http://formatlibrary.weebly.com/goats/goat-control-deck-gallery). If so, this site seems unfinished, and it looks like it has been a white since anyone has edited or updated it. 

 

http://kperovic.com/metagame/yugioh/default.html

 

am i really that good at google

 

Thanks for your help, but that just looks like Metagame.com, which I mentioned I already knew about. :/ Again, thanks though. 
 

@Petersylie- 
Thanks for the link, some interesting decks there! 

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»Logic    2049

I wish people on DN played Exarionless by default, I find myself getting almost as frustrated about how easy it is to play Exarion than anything else, and a large portion of my losses feel like they stem from that card while I'm using a deck that isn't built with it in consideration.
 

i'm well aware it's far from OP or any nonsense like that, but after the exarionless experience earlier this year, I get much less pissed off when it's not around.

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I wish people on DN played Exarionless by default, I find myself getting almost as frustrated about how easy it is to play Exarion than anything else, and a large portion of my losses feel like they stem from that card while I'm using a deck that isn't built with it in consideration.
 
i'm well aware it's far from OP or any nonsense like that, but after the exarionless experience earlier this year, I get much less pissed off when it's not around.


i feel that honestly, i know its beating a dead horse at this point but the weird inbetween hybrid format of "yes exarion, no crv" bothers me still

i try not to be too picky because its great that people are still playing this format, i just dont like the design of exarion much at all
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