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Strife    613
[quote name='CellarDoor' timestamp='1354247034' post='3336097']
[quote name='Strife' timestamp='1354246707' post='3336091']
[quote name='CellarDoor' timestamp='1354246373' post='3336085']
[quote name='Rainy' timestamp='1354245890' post='3336075']
Would you guys still go into Shock Lock if you guys only opened say : Magician Shark Veiler Typhoon Night Assailant, Tragoedia?
>Turn 1
>You go first
>Unknown opponent deck

It would be great to also know what you do if you DID know opponent's deck. I assume against something like Inzektor/Agent you'd call monster but it gets a little blurrier when say playing against Hero or something. Dark World is spells obv?
[/quote]

I have veiler to protect myself, I go shock spells.

Is there any other remotely viable play in this position?

I am under the impression that there is nothing close to as effective in that scenario.
[/quote]

The issue I have with that is you're pretty much losing to Mermails with that play. Honestly if I was playing those cards, not that I would, then I'd just pass turn. If you're against the mirror, Agents or Rabbit then you have Veiler for their biggest potential t1 play and then you still get a 2400 Trag on board to protect you if need be and hopefully that should also mean that Mermail and the mirror can't kill you. As for the other stuff like Geargia and Dragons, they're probably just gonna have a passive turn unless they've got the nuts.
[/quote]

So if you play vs gears/dragons/agents/rabbit what is the advantage of letting them set backrow/monster or summon a monster before you magician shark?

So you're saying you would pass turn just because shocklock isn't the most optimal play against water?
[/quote]

I think about the only deck I'd be worried about doing it against is Rabbit. Like, yes if you Shock Lock against Rabbit they can't really do anything aggressive because you have Veiler to prevent Rabbit, but if they opened like Sabersaurus, set 3-4 then you were probably in a bad spot anyway, as are you really going to risk Shock Master in that situation when you can only ping the 1 backrow and hope to hit Lance or they don't have chainables on your turn? Also passing back does give you a chance to hit Factory/Reborn/more MST/Storm in the hope to let you go off better.

I'd just rather play it passively because of the amount of decks that can easily get over your turn 1 Shock Master without too much effort because you realistically have nothing to back it up. Basically I'd just be looking for more options and information for the following turn.

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»BoraxTheLean    7119
[quote name='Strife' timestamp='1354248431' post='3336121']
Also passing back does give you a chance to hit Factory/Reborn/more MST/Storm in the hope to let you go off better.
[/quote]

I feel like this is grossly incorrect. Giving yourself one draw in your 35 card deck in exchange for letting your opponent summon a monster (thunder king?) and set backrow before you make a play.

So I ask again, is the threat of facing the opening you described worth not going turn 1 shockmaster?

I am just trying to stimulate discussion, not be bad manner or condescending. I honestly don't know the right play with 100% certainty.

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»Relianah    4515
So you're afraid of shock locking because they might go sabersaurus set 4, but what do you do when you passed and they do the same play and warning the mage? The only deck it would be very bad against is water

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Strife    613
Normally I wouldn't be afraid of going Shock Lock turn 1 IF I know I'm playing against Rabbit. But with that hand that was posted then if they go Sabersaurus, set 4 you're still in a bit of an awkward place regardless.

As for why I'd be defensive with the play its just that while yes there is the threat of losing if you don't go for the play straight away, having Trag + monsters in hand does enable you to try and grind for a little bit, and I think overall is less risky against the unknown matchup. Obviously Water just obliterates that field with numerous combinations, and that's kinda a problem atm if we were talking about this from the perspective of a regional/YCS. You sit down round 1, are you really going to risk it hoping you aren't playing against the deck that just posted the most tops at the last YCS and is brand new so has a lot more bandwagoners.

Then there's the issue that again just going on that 1 hand that was posted, if you go for Shock Lock turn 1 you probably lose to Agents if they open Agent+Hyperion or Honest+dude. If Geargia has a Geargia+Accelerator and decides to be aggressive into your weakish opener then they can start taking apart some of this, and it gets even worse if its the Machina version and they can drop Fortress turn 1. Admittedly the mirror will basically need to have opened Shark(s) to really push through the Veiler, but that's not a great situation if they have them.

I know its a weird one as I think more often than not getting older has made me favour the more passive plays, but I will admit this one is gambling a bit on not losing to their opening hand and hoping that you can deal with whatever they put out with the obvious prize for doing so being that if it works odds are you're winning next turn.

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vayuemblem    111
[quote name='anzi104' timestamp='1354219601' post='3335749']Perhaps what we can learn from this video is that there is some utility with Lavalval Chain, something that we can potentially use in tandem with what we have now or with what we may gain in the future (Emeral upon release)?[/quote]
can xyz into it with 2 mage under gozen match.. can put tour guide or rat on top.. well can't think of anything else right now.. but still 1800 atk is low so i dunno if it's worth it but well if you can do the mage rabbit farming tricks and have some backrow you can easily put rat on top by detaching mage and pluss like crazy if you really need it.

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Farester    820
That example has some really bad card choices but I think the most instructive thing about it, at least to me since I really don't like hand traps, is that if the Veiler were a Fiendish Chain instead you could go Shocklock and be in an excellent position against water which is the main deck that makes going into Shock Master without protection a questionable play. Ideally instead of drawing things like Night Assailant and Trag you would draw either TK's or some backrow which would provide for a solid alternative play but in any case playing chains over veilers seems like the smarter choice post-seattle since against water or anything really going Shocklock turn 1 is a no-brainer if you only have Chain but pretty risky if you only have veiler.
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Brandon Wigley    3438
[quote name='CellarDoor' timestamp='1354247814' post='3336109']
[quote name='knives1990' timestamp='1354247755' post='3336107']
There are quite a few plays u can make with tgu shark in hand I was just asking which the most optimal one is. Obviously u can shock master but like rapture said u can also go maity, maestroke, and tiras which is also an extremely strong play too. I know why I got bashed hard but u act like I literally don't know that u can go into shockmaster. And I don't get on here posting lazy shit I try to contribute
[/quote]

No one is bashing you.

Edit: Wigley doesn't matter
[/quote]
Who are you?
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So im having a pretty hard time deciding on what to side. I have like 5 slots open. The issue im having is, is rabbit big enough in the meta to constitute siding for it? I know as far as what I think the top decks are, id say wind up and water. Water kinda knocked gear out, and everything else is like tier 2. Im trying to fit veilers im, but I need a card to cut. Not looking for u guys to build my side for me, thats why im not gonna post it yet. Just wanna get some discussion going. So..wu and water and ppl play rabbit to try and counter those 2? So we should be siding for those 3 decks, yes? Ans agents, sorry. Forgot about that deck :/

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»Relianah    4515
Having similar problems, I know shakir said he liked ceiling vs the deck, how have other people liked it? Been pretty hit in miss for me

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Nichigo    709
[quote name='Dark Armed Thumper' timestamp='1354339070' post='3336898']
So im having a pretty hard time deciding on what to side. I have like 5 slots open. The issue im having is, is rabbit big enough in the meta to constitute siding for it? I know as far as what I think the top decks are, id say wind up and water. Water kinda knocked gear out, and everything else is like tier 2. Im trying to fit veilers im, but I need a card to cut. Not looking for u guys to build my side for me, thats why im not gonna post it yet. Just wanna get some discussion going. So..wu and water and ppl play rabbit to try and counter those 2? So we should be siding for those 3 decks, yes? Ans agents, sorry. Forgot about that deck :/
[/quote]

Glad you said it before me...but I've been wondering about Veilers as well. Haven't really thought that hand traps were too important up to this point (just been siding the "standard" 2 C's) ...but now the threat of mirrors is making me re-evaluate. Would like to see a discussion going about this as well.

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Twitter    2057
[quote name='Dark Armed Thumper' timestamp='1354339070' post='3336898']
So im having a pretty hard time deciding on what to side. I have like 5 slots open. The issue im having is, is rabbit big enough in the meta to constitute siding for it? I know as far as what I think the top decks are, id say wind up and water. Water kinda knocked gear out, and everything else is like tier 2. Im trying to fit veilers im, but I need a card to cut. Not looking for u guys to build my side for me, thats why im not gonna post it yet. Just wanna get some discussion going. So..wu and water and ppl play rabbit to try and counter those 2? So we should be siding for those 3 decks, yes? Ans agents, sorry. Forgot about that deck :/
[/quote]

ive noticed a significant amount of rabbit in my area enough to side for it. i think the rabbit reprint is to blame.

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d3monized    106
3 DFissure 3 TKing should be good against Waters.
Mirror Match I like 3 TKings and Messangers all day.

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Mitch    86
So does anyone know how trap stun is ruled against sphere? Does it lock then out permanently or does sphere just blow itself up? Considering siding 2 and that would be helpful in my decision

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»orangeeyes    11863
Noob question but I can't seem to find an answer

If you open with TGU + Shark and you're going first, what is the optimal play?

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+mmf    23472
@everyone going omg gonna play veiler again too scared of the mirror!!!1 stop thinking u need 5 billion hand traps to win the mirror
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»TS Fearless    7066
Im done playing for the rest of the format I think, at least competitively traveling places. Was thinking about writing a hugeee article on arg all about wus.
  • Upvote 5

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»Pengwan    7712
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1354385178' post='3337166']
Noob question but I can't seem to find an answer

If you open with TGU + Shark and you're going first, what is the optimal play?
[/quote]
Need to know rest of hand, play depends on if you have Traps or not

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»orangeeyes    11863
What I meant was, what is the biggest field you can make with just TGU + Shark

found out it was Zenmaity + Shark + Shock, I'm a WU noob so I wasn't sure if there was a bigger play

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»lo fi    2611
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1354387614' post='3337186']
What I meant was, what is the biggest field you can make with just TGU + Shark

found out it was Zenmaity + Shark + Shock, I'm a WU noob so I wasn't sure if there was a bigger play
[/quote]

No you can just straight up push for game. It's giga, Butterfly, Zenmaister, Carrier.
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G Λ r Ω N    5934
[quote name='TS Fearless' timestamp='1354387027' post='3337181']Im done playing for the rest of the format I think, at least competitively traveling places. Was thinking about writing a hugeee article on arg all about wus.[/quote]


Dude same here, no YCS announced for 2013, and not so much as a reg has really killed my motivation to play, I'm not being challenged locally at all anymore either, it's a real drag because I think the game isn't that bad right now. It has pushed me to play Pokemon.
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Indignation    2854
[quote name='TS Fearless' timestamp='1354387027' post='3337181']
Im done playing for the rest of the format I think, at least competitively traveling places. Was thinking about writing a hugeee article on arg all about wus.
[/quote]
I would be interested.

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»lo fi    2611
[quote name='Indignation' timestamp='1354390315' post='3337203']
[quote name='TS Fearless' timestamp='1354387027' post='3337181']
Im done playing for the rest of the format I think, at least competitively traveling places. Was thinking about writing a hugeee article on arg all about wus.
[/quote]
I would be interested.
[/quote]

Your sig is prettyhot.
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