Jump to content
Bazoo

Romney Basically Loses the Election

Recommended Posts

Bazoo    5700
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/09/18/161333783/romneys-wrong-and-right-about-the-47-percent?utm_source=NPR&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=20120903

[quote]

Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney [url="http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/09/17/161313644/leaked-video-purports-to-show-romney-discuss-dependent-voters"]told supporters[/url] that "there are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what" because they are "dependent upon government ... believe that they are victims ... believe the government has a responsibility to care for them ... these are people pay no income tax."
[img]http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/09/18/romney18_custom-c3b6668a6f6f0a67a9debe89417eca7e8a6cf2d0-s15.jpg[/img]
Nicholas Kamm /AFP/Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney talking to reporters Monday in Costa Mesa, Calif.
Who was he talking about?
Well, [url="http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/the-reasons-behind-the-people-who-pay-no-income-tax/?hp"]as [i]The New York Times[/i]' Economix blog writes[/url], "Mr. Romney is absolutely correct that about half of American households do not pay federal income tax."
The [url="http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/"]non-partisan Tax Policy Center[/url], and others, have many times pointed out that a little less than half of Americans pay no federal income taxes. But as TPC also noted last year, "many of those who don't pay income tax do pay other taxes — federal payroll and excise taxes as well as state and local income, sales, and property taxes."
And why do so many not pay income taxes? According to TPC:
— "About half of people who don't owe income tax are off the rolls not because they take advantage of tax breaks but rather because they have low incomes."
— Of the rest in that group, 75 percent "pay no income tax because of provisions that benefit senior citizens and low-income working families with children."
To imply that most of those who don't pay income taxes are getting away with something, however, raises questions. "Put bluntly," Economix writes, "these are not households shirking their tax liabilities. The pool consists mostly of the poor, of relatively low-income working families and of old people. The tax code is specifically designed to reduce the burden on them."
So what about the "[url="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5075545"]truthiness[/url]" of Romney's comments?
By grouping those who don't pay income taxes together with those who he says are "dependent upon government" and therefore support President Obama, Romney has [url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romney-caught-on-video-tape/2012/09/17/38578a5e-012f-11e2-b257-e1c2b3548a4a_blog.html"]earned "three Pinocchios" from [i]The Washington Post[/i]'s The Fact Checker[/url]. It writes that:[indent]
"Romney appears to conflate a few things — Obama's approval rating, the percentage of people who do not pay income taxes and people who rely on government assistance.
"There may be some overlap between these groups but they really are not the same thing."[/indent]
In fact, while Romney seemed to say that the president will draw most of his support from those who pay no income taxes, [url="http://taxfoundation.org:81/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/Fiscal%20Facts/20100524-229-nonpayers-map-.jpg"]a Tax Foundation map highlighting the 10 states with the highest percentages of "non-payers"[/url] shows most are Republican territories:
— Alabama
— Arkansas
— Florida
— Georgia
— Idaho
— Louisiana
— Mississippi
— New Mexico
— South Carolina
— Texas
The [url="http://www.motherjones.com/"]liberal news outlet Mother Jones[/url] has been breaking the news about Romney's remarks, which were secretly videotaped during a May fundraiser he held in Florida. The candidate himself has [url="http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2012/09/17/161313644/leaked-video-purports-to-show-romney-discuss-dependent-voters"]stood by his comments[/url], though he's conceded they were "not elegantly stated."[/quote]


maybe it's not about the content of the message, but that he's just straight up wrong
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
».ben.    7438
He needed to spend more time on the internet, b/c then he'd know that 83.3% of all statistics are made up.

If he had said something like "a significant portion of obama-voters" he could have made the same point and saved himself the fallout. Additionally, he needed to leave the last sentence, and specifically the word "tax" out.

He's essentially making the old, closed-loop argument that entitlement-candidates ensure reelection by ensuring more and future entitlements. There's nothing new there. He did so in a fucking stupid way, though.

Actually, 47% is a defensible number: [url="http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/"]http://taxvox.taxpol...l-income-tax-2/[/url]

Still doesn't make the comment wise, politically, IMO. He probably should stay away from "you don't pay taxes" type of comments.
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Twitter    2057
he did this in a state that he has no chance of winning too. smh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Pale King    366
Yeah just imagine all the crazy retirees, students, and people living in poverty, who don't earn enough to pay income taxes and think they're entitled to niceties like food.

In all seriousness, though, numerous non taxpayers probably will vote for Romney, perhaps even as many as will vote for Obama, if only because they're: 1) older; 2) concentrated in low-income Southern states (aka, the GOP base). The only reliably "blue" state in the mix is New Mexico, since Florida could go either way. Many of the states with the lowest non taxpayer % are blue states like Virginia, Minnesota, and Massachusetts:

[img]http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/moneybox/2012/09/17/retirees_and_students_often_don_t_pay_income_taxes/1347928920357.png.CROP.article568-large.png[/img]
[img]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/politics/nonpayers.banner.taxfound.jpg[/img]

Also, it's so bizarre how the GOP, in all of its fervor to lower taxes to the lowest possible level, ridicules the people who pay lower/fewer taxes than anyone else.
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bazoo    5700
[quote name='benthegreat' timestamp='1347981951' post='3283531']
Actually, 47% is a defensible number: [url="http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/07/27/why-do-people-pay-no-federal-income-tax-2/"]http://taxvox.taxpol...l-income-tax-2/[/url]

Still doesn't make the comment wise, politically, IMO. He probably should stay away from "you don't pay taxes" type of comments.
[/quote]

Right, that's what the article said, but the number is limited to federal taxes. Many more people pay state taxes and, most importantly, payroll taxes for entitlement programs, which actually makes sense.

And to be clear, I really wouldn't be okay living in a society where half of all people are supported solely by the other half so don't get me wrong. It was just a ridiculous statement both factual and politically
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23495
"the government has a responsibility to care for them"

well i should fucking hope so!
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»orangeeyes    11863
Isn't Romney part of the 47% that doesn't pay income taxes?
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ammit    5159
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1347993136' post='3283641']
Isn't Romney part of the 47% that doesn't pay income taxes?
[/quote]
he pays 14% which is actually less than a lot of the people he was calling out pay in terms of percentage for pay roll taxes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+rei+    34679
lol Romney pays less than half what i pay in income tax.
BUT HES CREATING JEBS RITE?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oceanus    1125
Basically, he just offended all those people by either lumping together those who are dependent and those who are not, or by of course calling said dependent people parasites that his campaign (and by extension an administration led by him) does not support.

However, the feedback I'm getting doesn't seem to have hit home for many of his supporters. I think they're a little too thick to understand the offense. And they quickly are distracted by the strawman fallacy figure of that many people not paying income tax.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forlum    9162
As I recall Obama did something that kind of mirrored this about 4 years ago. Some kind of just general insulty type of comment

Do people even really pay attention to such comments? Does it make a difference beyond the intial shock to some? I guess it matters how late or early into the game it is.

I just get the sense either people ultimately don't care or it doesn't seem matter if youre talking about the opposition's pool of voters

I...expect Romney to lose but I don't think this is what'll sink him


Oh found it: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us/politics/13campaign.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www Edited by Forlin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bazoo    5700
[quote name='Forlin' timestamp='1348057064' post='3284141']
Oh found it: [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us/politics/13campaign.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www"]http://www.nytimes.c...moc.semityn.www[/url]
[/quote]

a little bad but that's a fairer statement than calling half of the people in your nation lazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Urthor    10227
I'm surprised, I thought I'd have to wait and see him get destroyed in the presidential debates for him to lose the election.

But the irony is for all the democratic party's campaigning against big money politics, it's clear that said politics which were a part of what drive Romney into the position of Republican nominee have delivered a terrible candidate who's going to lose an election vs an incredibly vulnerable president. Newt Gingrich for all his baggage would be doing a terrific job at actually being a politician and would have been far more of a threat.
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+rei+    34679
dont worry i'm sure america would never elect an idiot with carte blanche terrible policies, makes ignorant statements completely detached from reality, and constantly alientates most of his voter base, the kind of guy that the rest of the western world would never even allow into a public office

[spoiler]
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/George-W-Bush.jpeg/220px-George-W-Bush.jpeg[/img]
[/spoiler]
  • Upvote 18

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»...Arson    7757
how did obama do on letterman? this has all been really good timing for him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»Pharaoh Atem    15769
[quote name='Bazoo' timestamp='1348059958' post='3284155'][quote name='Forlin' timestamp='1348057064' post='3284141'] Oh found it: [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/13/us/politics/13campaign.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www"]http://www.nytimes.c...moc.semityn.www[/url] [/quote] a little bad but that's a fairer statement than calling half of the people in your nation lazy[/quote]
not even a little bad, to anyone who has a brain and isn't insatiably desperate to deny Obama four more years. Anyone with a history book and half a lick to not get their feelings hurt about the truth knows it's generally accurate that people DO “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them” when chips are down. The last few years have sent plenty of people into a fucking apocalyptic kick, so the comments are apt and reasonable.

Romney's comments about the 47 percent are off base not because they might hurt someone's feelings, they're off base because they ignore the fact that the great bulk of that 47% work a few fucktons harder than a highly visible chunk of the 53%. We are no freeloaders - we're the motherfuckers who make the money that the 53% use to pay their goddamn taxes in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
packdaddy    737
[quote name='rei' timestamp='1348002451' post='3283728']
lol Romney pays less than half what i pay in income tax.
BUT HES CREATING JEBS RITE?
[/quote]
oh he's totally going to be creating jobs when he gets rid of the porn industry, abortion clinics, and medical marijuana dispensaries!

he's socially a fucktard. and he's economically laughable. "oh if u vote me as president the market will come back to top form just cuz lolz, but if obama is reelected man idk wtf is gon happen tho" makes sense.
  • Upvote 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sanojio    129
He's under fire for his offshore companies he didn't report, his networth is something closer to 350, 400 million. [url="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2168653/Presidential-candidate-Mitt-Romney-owns-offshore-company-means-RICHER-estimated-250million.html"]http://www.dailymail...250million.html[/url]
His aide said he would be more suitable for a healthy relationship with the UK since "his angelo saxon background would be more appreciated". lol
he wasn't aware that gays marry
He loses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»antispiral    1005
[quote name='Wumbologist' timestamp='1348004308' post='3283755']
you guys understand why he pays 15% taxes right?
[/quote]
capital gains and creative accounting, duh.

tbh a large, significant amount of the people who do not pay income tax are old people, because they're retired and don't make enough income. that's a group romney is almost certainly going to win, but offending them is just not smart.

and this again shows how out of touch romney is from basically everyone. remember when he joked that he knew how it felt to be unemployed. just dumb.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×