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Dino Rabbit - Discussion

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Ndgz    100
[quote name='Bergy' timestamp='1353422380' post='3329602']
Monsters [15]

3 Sabersaurus
3 Kabazuals
3 Guaiba
2 Rabbit
2 Tour Guide
1 Sangan
1 Night Assailant

Spells [11]
3 Lance
2 MST
2 Duality
1 Soul Taker
1 Dark Hole
1 Heavy Storm
1 Monster Reborn

Traps [16]
3 Safe Zone
2 Macro Cosmos
2 Mirror Force
2 Fiendish Chain
2 Solemn Warning
2 Bottomless
1 Compulse
1 Solemn Judgment
1 Starlight Road


This build is based around playing only what is essential, and protecting your vanillas.

Safe Zone is possibly my favorite card in the game. It does so much. It punishes your opponent for random MSTs and protects your dinos while making your opponent one for one with it. It means Sabersaurus kills TKRO. It means that all of your monsters become walls, walls that CANNOT be beaten by Papilloperative.

I like 42 in this deck, but with 2 dualities. Ideally you want to draw maybe 1-2 Vanillas during the game and the extra 2 cards mitigates that slightly.

Once macro starts becoming less relevant, I want to test Shard of Greed over dualities.
[/quote]

Sheer perfection and beauty in one post. Have you considered swapping your lance/MST ratios? I think you would be surprised at how often the third MST is actually alive in the game. I sometimes play 42 in this deck as well, but I run 40 w/ 2 duality to get Macro Cosmos/Safe Zone out ASAP

Also, do you like soul taker? I find that I really never need it. Love your monster lineup, our build are soo similar.

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Chimera    610
[quote name='Burn After Rolling' timestamp='1353514300' post='3330354']Tested Joe's build out but in the side took out the TKing and Ceiling for 2 Chains. Thought's on Fiendish in the main? Cards really good right now.[/quote]

Posed for the awesome sig

I really like chain too. stopping undine is sooo clutch.
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+Gemstone Mine    2590
[quote name='Chimera' timestamp='1353531705' post='3330541']
[quote name='Burn After Rolling' timestamp='1353514300' post='3330354']Tested Joe's build out but in the side took out the TKing and Ceiling for 2 Chains. Thought's on Fiendish in the main? Cards really good right now.[/quote]

Posed for the awesome sig

I really like chain too. stopping undine is sooo clutch.
[/quote]

Um, why the hell would stopping them from adding a Controller to hand be clutch?

You do realized that even if you Fiendish Chain it, they still pay the cost to use its effect, so they win even more if you chain Undine than if you had just left the Undine alone.
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Bergy    788
[quote name='Ndgz' timestamp='1353531590' post='3330538']
[quote name='Bergy' timestamp='1353422380' post='3329602']
Monsters [15]

3 Sabersaurus
3 Kabazuals
3 Guaiba
2 Rabbit
2 Tour Guide
1 Sangan
1 Night Assailant

Spells [11]
3 Lance
2 MST
2 Duality
1 Soul Taker
1 Dark Hole
1 Heavy Storm
1 Monster Reborn

Traps [16]
3 Safe Zone
2 Macro Cosmos
2 Mirror Force
2 Fiendish Chain
2 Solemn Warning
2 Bottomless
1 Compulse
1 Solemn Judgment
1 Starlight Road


This build is based around playing only what is essential, and protecting your vanillas.

Safe Zone is possibly my favorite card in the game. It does so much. It punishes your opponent for random MSTs and protects your dinos while making your opponent one for one with it. It means Sabersaurus kills TKRO. It means that all of your monsters become walls, walls that CANNOT be beaten by Papilloperative.

I like 42 in this deck, but with 2 dualities. Ideally you want to draw maybe 1-2 Vanillas during the game and the extra 2 cards mitigates that slightly.

Once macro starts becoming less relevant, I want to test Shard of Greed over dualities.
[/quote]

Sheer perfection and beauty in one post. Have you considered swapping your lance/MST ratios? I think you would be surprised at how often the third MST is actually alive in the game. I sometimes play 42 in this deck as well, but I run 40 w/ 2 duality to get Macro Cosmos/Safe Zone out ASAP

Also, do you like soul taker? I find that I really never need it. Love your monster lineup, our build are soo similar.
[/quote]

Soul Taker is just spot removal, you need it in a deck like this.

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»neptune    3789
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
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yung Monet    2452
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.[/quote]
I hated Book like most of last format, and the beginning of this. But, post Gooby being staple in builds, I've liked it more. It essentially acts like a fourth Lance in a lot of situations as well as helping to stop all the stuff Book stops in general. That said, if I hadn't made room for at least double Safe Zone, Book's probably one of the first cards I'd consider cutting in order to make that happen. Seriously, shouts out to Bergy and anybody else that has been hyping Safe Zone. Card's the tits.
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+Urthor    10200
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

You're making dweller and not dolkka? Like Megalo and Diva don't run over you?

Book is essentially a 4th forbidden lance for how good it is at getting over monsters, then it's invaluable as a defensive card, don't drop it lol.



Also for a bit when I was running the deck especially after the YCS I was not running macro because I was being a scaredy cat and saying it's not great vs all the decks and wasn't running it. I was wrong, macro is actually not the worst thing in the world vs WU, preventing rat setup is a pretty big thing and you can bluff it and stuff, and ofc it's the nuts vs many decks, play it.
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»neptune    3789
[quote name='Urthor' timestamp='1353568156' post='3330916']
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

You're making dweller and not dolkka? Like Megalo and Diva don't run over you?

Book is essentially a 4th forbidden lance for how good it is at getting over monsters, then it's invaluable as a defensive card, don't drop it lol.
[/quote]

Essentially, you're not going to know what you're playing against game 1.

g2 sometimes it's just not the right play with no protection.

tldr i'm constantly unlucky.
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fractal    2488
Dweller is even better with protection than Dolkka with protection against Merlanteans. If the have Megalo, they can SEGOC around Dolkka. There's no SEGOC to get around Dweller. Not to mention, you have to stop Megalo and the Atlanteans, otherwise you just get gaped entirely. 1 Dweller effect + Bottomless/Prison/Lance means that you give no fucks about anything.

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timanthony    10
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

R u serious ? I'm like 7-1 against the deck , its by far the easiest matchup for Dino Rabbit. Even without the obvious Macro, outside of Marksman nothing in the deck does shit. They cant leave monsters on their field like ever because Guiaba runs over everything they run outside of Megalo. Once you get a an Evolzaur out its basically game unless they have Dark Hole.
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yung Monet    2452
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.[/quote]
Accidental neg from my phone while scrolling.

But while still on the subject, I guess I'll drop my two cents.

The match-up is favorable, but it's not like I'm happy to see it, so much can go wrong. A lot of times I find myself in situations thinking about what to make, and all I can say is, "Well, I lose to X-card either way so I might as well make whatever gives me the most value if they don't have X."

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d3monized    106
Going to continue with Macro Rabbit. Marco is good right now vs everything. Even against Wind Ups and Geargia it isn't terrible. Plus you obviously side them out for cards specifically for that matchup.

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emblem    1211
[quote name='timanthony' timestamp='1353600608' post='3331070']
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

R u serious ? I'm like 7-1 against the deck , its by far the easiest matchup for Dino Rabbit. Even without the obvious Macro, outside of Marksman nothing in the deck does shit. They cant leave monsters on their field like ever because Guiaba runs over everything they run outside of Megalo. Once you get a an Evolzaur out its basically game unless they have Dark Hole.
[/quote]

Or they just bombard you with Abyssphere and bring out a 2400 that can crash into both Evolzars, forcing the negation with Laggia, not to mention Undine also forces a Laggia negation. If you go Dolkka, you stop Megalo from hand, but now you don't have any protection from Sphere getting Megalo or Dark Hole, or Heavy Storm (or Soul Taker if they choose to main it for TKing). It'd be nice if Rabbit always opened Rabbit/Guaiba with Macro and relevant backrow vs Atlanteans but the truth is, they're much more consistent in their openings and unless you can get an early Dolkka with protection, the match-up can go either way.

That being said, obviously Macro just shits on this deck if you can protect it, but this match-up is far from auto win and I don't think you should blow it off like that when they literally have a 2400 Atker on command.
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Arawn    488
If you're not happy to see the Mermail matchup, what matchup are you happy to see? It's one of your most favorable ones, alongside Inzektors. If you aren't happy with these matchups, then what's the point of running this deck?

I mean, obviously things can go wrong, but the same can be said with any matchup, as any deck can draw ridiculous while you draw normals + nothing, and you're stomped. But that doesn't mean the matchup isn't in your favor regardless.
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+mmf    23472
[quote name='emblem' timestamp='1353609063' post='3331136']
[quote name='timanthony' timestamp='1353600608' post='3331070']
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

R u serious ? I'm like 7-1 against the deck , its by far the easiest matchup for Dino Rabbit. Even without the obvious Macro, outside of Marksman nothing in the deck does shit. They cant leave monsters on their field like ever because Guiaba runs over everything they run outside of Megalo. Once you get a an Evolzaur out its basically game unless they have Dark Hole.
[/quote]

Or they just bombard you with Abyssphere and bring out a 2400 that can crash into both Evolzars, forcing the negation with Laggia, not to mention Undine also forces a Laggia negation. If you go Dolkka, you stop Megalo from hand, but now you don't have any protection from Sphere getting Megalo or Dark Hole, or Heavy Storm (or Soul Taker if they choose to main it for TKing). It'd be nice if Rabbit always opened Rabbit/Guaiba with Macro and relevant backrow vs Atlanteans but the truth is, they're much more consistent in their openings and unless you can get an early Dolkka with protection, the match-up can go either way.

That being said, obviously Macro just shits on this deck if you can protect it, but this match-up is far from auto win and I don't think you should blow it off like that when they literally have a 2400 Atker on command.
[/quote]this is such a dumb post lol. "look at all of these theoretical reasons why I can lose a matchup." thanks for telling us what cards mermails play. "omg they can GET MEGALO WITH SPHERE!!!!" literally like half your deck is an out to that and even if it goes through they still lose their megalo at the end of the turn.
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Bergy    788
GUYS, MACHINA FORTRESS CAN GET OVER [b][u]BOTH EVOLZERS.[/u][/b]

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»neptune    3789
[quote name='Arawn' timestamp='1353610029' post='3331146']
If you're not happy to see the Mermail matchup, what matchup are you happy to see? It's one of your most favorable ones, alongside Inzektors. If you aren't happy with these matchups, then what's the point of running this deck?

I mean, obviously things can go wrong, but the same can be said with any matchup, as any deck can draw ridiculous while you draw normals + nothing, and you're stomped. But that doesn't mean the matchup isn't in your favor regardless.
[/quote]

the mirror, inzektors, and I didn't say the mermail match up wasn't favorable, I just think it isn't so lenient in your favor if you don't have macro/dweller. It becomes like 51/49 in their favor seeing as all of their bosses are naturally equal or bigger, not to mention they have access to Gachi.

I mean, if you're at a YCS and you have no idea what you're playing, will you really make a Dweller t1? That seems like shit.

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Arawn    488
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353614397' post='3331209']
[quote name='Arawn' timestamp='1353610029' post='3331146']
If you're not happy to see the Mermail matchup, what matchup are you happy to see? It's one of your most favorable ones, alongside Inzektors. If you aren't happy with these matchups, then what's the point of running this deck?

I mean, obviously things can go wrong, but the same can be said with any matchup, as any deck can draw ridiculous while you draw normals + nothing, and you're stomped. But that doesn't mean the matchup isn't in your favor regardless.
[/quote]

the mirror, inzektors, and I didn't say the mermail match up wasn't favorable, I just think it isn't so lenient in your favor if you don't have macro/dweller. It becomes like 51/49 in their favor seeing as all of their bosses are naturally equal or bigger, not to mention they have access to Gachi.

I mean, if you're at a YCS and you have no idea what you're playing, will you really make a Dweller t1? That seems like shit.
[/quote]

No, but you also won't call monsters instead of Spells with shockmaster unless you happen to know what matchup you're playing. That doesn't make Magician + Shark any less powerful, just like it doesn't make opening Rabbit any less powerful.

The matchup is in your favor in general. Opening Rescue Rabbit -> Evolzar is actually not as likely anymore, so more often than not you'll be playing Evolzars on your turn 2 or 3. By then you should know the matchup, and know you should be trying for Dolkka / Dweller. Even if they manage to make a few plays early game, unless they open the nuts, you should still be able to take control of the match. So many of your cards can hurt them (2 normals into Xyz, Guaiba, Rai-Oh if you run it, Rabbit, Macro Cosmos, and later in the game, Tour Guide); that coupled with lower trap lineup than most decks (even when they do run traps), makes for an easier matchup, even if you don't open Macro.

I'm not saying the matchup is piss easy, say like Six Samurai vs Final Countdown or something lol, but it's in your favor enough that you should come out on top in a best of 3, as long as you play well and the deck is built adequately to the meta.

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yung Monet    2452
[quote name='dennis frogman' timestamp='1353610633' post='3331150']
[quote name='emblem' timestamp='1353609063' post='3331136']
[quote name='timanthony' timestamp='1353600608' post='3331070']
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353565102' post='3330895']
fucking hate the mermail match up.

always puts me on edge if I can't open macro/make dweller.

also, what is the consensus on book of moon? I'm actually finding it less and less useful every time it is in my hand. What can book stop that lance/dolkka/laggia/torrent doesn't already stop?

i'm contemplating dropping it from my main.
[/quote]

R u serious ? I'm like 7-1 against the deck , its by far the easiest matchup for Dino Rabbit. Even without the obvious Macro, outside of Marksman nothing in the deck does shit. They cant leave monsters on their field like ever because Guiaba runs over everything they run outside of Megalo. Once you get a an Evolzaur out its basically game unless they have Dark Hole.
[/quote]

Or they just bombard you with Abyssphere and bring out a 2400 that can crash into both Evolzars, forcing the negation with Laggia, not to mention Undine also forces a Laggia negation. If you go Dolkka, you stop Megalo from hand, but now you don't have any protection from Sphere getting Megalo or Dark Hole, or Heavy Storm (or Soul Taker if they choose to main it for TKing). It'd be nice if Rabbit always opened Rabbit/Guaiba with Macro and relevant backrow vs Atlanteans but the truth is, they're much more consistent in their openings and unless you can get an early Dolkka with protection, the match-up can go either way.

That being said, obviously Macro just shits on this deck if you can protect it, but this match-up is far from auto win and I don't think you should blow it off like that when they literally have a 2400 Atker on command.
[/quote]this is such a dumb post lol. "look at all of these theoretical reasons why I can lose a matchup." thanks for telling us what cards mermails play. "omg they can GET MEGALO WITH SPHERE!!!!" literally like half your deck is an out to that and even if it goes through they still lose their megalo at the end of the turn.
[/quote]
What are you guys talking about? RARELY are they going to be grabbing Megalo directly with Abyss-Sphere, unless they are just in an awful position and have to clear whatever you have immediately, in which case you're probably winning anyway.

Also, you're completely missing the point. He's not saying, "LOOK U LOoZ 2 ALL THIS!!!!!!" he was trying to correct timanothony's implication that the match-up is, "lol 2ezpz."


[quote name='Arawn' timestamp='1353610029' post='3331146']
If you're not happy to see the Mermail matchup, what matchup are you happy to see? It's one of your most favorable ones, alongside Inzektors. If you aren't happy with these matchups, then what's the point of running this deck?

I mean, obviously things can go wrong, but the same can be said with any matchup, as any deck can draw ridiculous while you draw normals + nothing, and you're stomped. But that doesn't mean the matchup isn't in your favor regardless.
[/quote]
Where are you even going? We all understand the match-up is favorable, in fact, I said that verbatim. I'm not talking about drawing normals and them having the nuts, I'm talking about in a standard situation where you both open well or mediocrely. In that situation the match-up is still pretty scary, even though it's in your favor. What do you mean if I'm not happy with the better match-ups what's the point of running the deck? That's completely irrelevant. This deck obviously has the best general match-up, again, I'm not denying that. But that's not enough, the mermail match-up can't just be chalked up as auto-win, even in terms of best of 2/3.
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»neptune    3789
[quote name='Arawn' timestamp='1353618089' post='3331234']
[quote name='Novacane' timestamp='1353614397' post='3331209']
[quote name='Arawn' timestamp='1353610029' post='3331146']
If you're not happy to see the Mermail matchup, what matchup are you happy to see? It's one of your most favorable ones, alongside Inzektors. If you aren't happy with these matchups, then what's the point of running this deck?

I mean, obviously things can go wrong, but the same can be said with any matchup, as any deck can draw ridiculous while you draw normals + nothing, and you're stomped. But that doesn't mean the matchup isn't in your favor regardless.
[/quote]

the mirror, inzektors, and I didn't say the mermail match up wasn't favorable, I just think it isn't so lenient in your favor if you don't have macro/dweller. It becomes like 51/49 in their favor seeing as all of their bosses are naturally equal or bigger, not to mention they have access to Gachi.

I mean, if you're at a YCS and you have no idea what you're playing, will you really make a Dweller t1? That seems like shit.
[/quote]

No, but you also won't call monsters instead of Spells with shockmaster unless you happen to know what matchup you're playing. That doesn't make Magician + Shark any less powerful, just like it doesn't make opening Rabbit any less powerful.

The matchup is in your favor in general. Opening Rescue Rabbit -> Evolzar is actually not as likely anymore, so more often than not you'll be playing Evolzars on your turn 2 or 3. By then you should know the matchup, and know you should be trying for Dolkka / Dweller. Even if they manage to make a few plays early game, unless they open the nuts, you should still be able to take control of the match. So many of your cards can hurt them (2 normals into Xyz, Guaiba, Rai-Oh if you run it, Rabbit, Macro Cosmos, and later in the game, Tour Guide); that coupled with lower trap lineup than most decks (even when they do run traps), makes for an easier matchup, even if you don't open Macro.

I'm not saying the matchup is piss easy, say like Six Samurai vs Final Countdown or something lol, but it's in your favor enough that you should come out on top in a best of 3, as long as you play well and the deck is built adequately to the meta.
[/quote]

Trying to go for Dolkka/Dweller is the problem. Once they find out what you're playing they can proceed to go hyper aggro without having to really worry about any consequences as they can pull monsters from the deck and make +'s out of thin air while we pretty much HAVE to draw nutty or work for those +'s.

The deck has to have field presence for at least 1 turn to make anything spectacular happen that match up or it becomes an easy blow out in their favor. And on top of that, cards like safe zone, reaper, d-prison are not adequate for this match up yet people insist on running them. What is your approach on the meta currently?

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silentsaiyan    271
this should convince ppl why the mermail/atlantean isnt exactly always in our favor...

http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/?p=11762
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Bergy    788
[quote name='silentsaiyan' timestamp='1353623790' post='3331302']
this should convince ppl why the mermail/atlantean isnt exactly always in our favor...

[url="http://www.konami.com/yugioh/blog/?p=11762"]http://www.konami.co...h/blog/?p=11762[/url]
[/quote]

When your opponent has every out for everything...

He Warning'd his Macro, Starlighted (wtf?) his Dark hole, had Torrential and Warning for Joe's SLR, and the late game typhoon for his warning.

So, how is this matchup bad?
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silentsaiyan    271
considering that he blind mst the right cards im saying that even a man who knows rabbit inside out can still lose to a deck that is supposed easy??

i mean im saying that everyone who says that macro rabbit is supposed to beat this deck 9 out of 10 are wrong

when the player has outs to everything like they should in a matchup that is horrible ppl shouldnt stating that they beat the deck all the time becuz reality is it doesnt
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TeRiMoNeRi    6
I'm playing around with this at the moment, its kind of a spinoff from an OCG deck i saw. I decided to try it out and the deck is working realy well for me at the moment

http://i.imgur.com/a9Psq.png

To me it's just feeling better then regular rabbit at the moment, i dont know exactly why, possibly the lack of kabazauls on hand just makes me happy. Thoughts on this version?

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Seerus    1971
[quote name='silentsaiyan' timestamp='1353625060' post='3331315']
considering that he blind mst the right cards im saying that even a man who knows rabbit inside out can still lose to a deck that is supposed easy??

i mean im saying that everyone who says that macro rabbit is supposed to beat this deck 9 out of 10 are wrong

when the player has outs to everything like they should in a matchup that is horrible ppl shouldnt stating that they beat the deck all the time becuz reality is it doesnt
[/quote]

So when the scales tip in your opponent's favor heavily and you draw mediocre hands you should worry about the matchup? No shit. I personally watched those games at the event and they were stupid. This deck [u][i]does[/i][/u] actually beat that deck a lot of the time if you don't draw shit or play poorly. I really don't see how one heavily luck influenced feature means that matchup isn't good.
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