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Fat rights, fat pride, fat-shaming, etc...

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Jesus the Jew    986
[quote name='ThePedanticGentleman' timestamp='1358523124' post='3374257']
[quote name='Jesus the Jew' timestamp='1358514588' post='3374210']
[img]http://questionsforwomen.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/rubens-the-three-graces-1639.jpg?w=255&h=300[/img]

Here is a prime example of Mr. T's point from the 17th century. Throughout history, slender women are more desired in times of plenty (like today) and fatter women are more desirable in time periods/places where food is scarcer.
[/quote]

Availability of food has had nothing to do with it since the Victorian era. Cultural norms of beauty have changed since the 1960s in the United States and availability of food has remained stable.
[/quote]

Even in modern day, in Western Africa, plumper women are desirable because they represent wealth. Since the Victorian era slim has been the desirable aesthetic in most western societies.

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+rei+    34853
This is more the insurance/health care side - how should we define obesity?
Currently obseity is medically just BMI > 30 (so a 6" tall person being 221 lbs) however this doesn't account for muscle mass and im sure this would put someone like strong fong firmly in obesity.

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+rei+    34853
[quote name='ZeroSaber' timestamp='1358558050' post='3374673']

I was agreeing with Urthor's point on [u]acknowledging what [b]you[/b] are/aren't doing to help [b]yourself[/b][/u].

[/quote]
I'm not sure why this is the case, but a lot of people seem to think fat people have no idea that they're fat or that they are on a self destructive path.

That said, a good amount of self-rationalization goes on at times (or at least it did and continues to do with me but that effects all of my life not just my weight issues) but fundamentally i dont think many fat people are in as denial as people think they are.



this is even less relevant but I get really mad at people who make fun of fat people for ordering diet pop. like, its a judgement thing "OH THEY THINK THAT THE DIET POP WONT MAKE THEM FAT BUT THEYRE STILL EATING whatever" even if its like, four nuggets
I hate that straw man; making the decision to not consume 200 calories of coke is still the right decision to be making in that context even if they need to further alter their patterns.

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it's like a token "right decision" in the face of a huge wrong decision. more of a placebo than anything

like i wouldn't fault anyone for what they eat cuz it's their body and their choices. i love the idea of the heart attack grill. "i eat whatever the fuck i want cuz i'm a boss, fully aware of the consequences and accepting full ownership and responsibility for my actions"

its more a matter of owning up to what you're doing than making lame rationalizations just to feel better about yourself when you have no reason to. not so much what is done, but rather why it's done. i used to serve food so i've seen a wide range

"i'm gonna order 3 fries with ranch dressing cuz goddamn it's tasty, oh and a diet coke too" is a lot more honest and forthright than "i'll have 3 fries with ranch dipping sauce, and a diet coke cuz i'm going on a diet for the prom". like goddamn idc if you indulge but are you so much of a coward that you need to pretend you're not indulging?

not even so much about being fat or w/e. it applies to a lot of things, like smoking and sex too

smoking
some smokers are cool when they own up to their actions. "i know it's bad for me but idgaf, i enjoy it and i accept the consequences". pack a day like a boss
other smokers don't and it's pathetic. "i know it's wrong and i'm trying to quit, i really want to but i can't". for the most part they still go through a pack a day, the only difference is they go through this little self-guilting ritual whenever they light up. jesus fuck just admit that you don't really want to quit. and all this talk about quitting is just lip service so you can finger yourself, imagining yourself to be someone on the path of self-improvement, when you aren't. drinking, same deal

[edit] there was this big fat dude who i think is really cool. he breathes marlboros like air and chugs diet cokes like water, eats a ton of red meat. and he owns up to all of it. he's the first to say that he deserves to pay extra for health insurance, pay tobacco tax, etc. he isn't ashamed of what he does, and he doesn't do what he's ashamed of.


sex
iamthegreat and that korean chick, same deal. why can't you just be honest and say "yeah i'm cheating on my boyfriend but goddamn you're a good fuck", but instead you say "it's not cheating, i'm just having some fun".
for some reason you have to make cheap lies to assuage your own guilt

that's basically my gripe regardless of the situation, i hate when ppl are cowardly and hide behind cheap lies. it's not always the case but i see it happen often enough
  • Upvote 7

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iamdark    508
God, T how I enjoyed reading your post.

Back to the discussion, I already said that fat people shouldn't be treated differently than anyone else. They are the same as any human being, and I think it was brought up, but weight /=/ fat, so how come people only want to be rid of obese people that actually look obese only? How come those people don't look at all the people, but instead the image in their mind about how a fat person looks like. Now, If people want to call out to a fat person to get skinnier, they are complete idiots. Just because you lose fat, doesn't mean you'll only show because you stopped looking like a giant, and some don't even look like that because that is not even correct or should be the mindset. Fighting obesity is nice, and really a good cause but that doesn't mean those people should be treated differently. Like, they are not disabled, most are not seriously depressed to be on antidepressants all the time, and they are living life normally.

Though honestly, It is definitely not worth discriminating mostly sane, normal human beings just because they are not healthy. Well, as wrong as that is, still isn't a rational thing to do, because every person, even ill people, are considered humans in the end, and fat people are but people as well. Disabled people get privileges, they get special treatment, but that is because generally, they actually need it. Seriously depressed people need special care, and for a lot of attention for some because they can be suicidal, and they need it. But in the end, they are still human beings and are no different from that no matter how retarded some people will be to discriminate or petty them. And if obese people, who are normal, and sane, and are functioning humans being will be discriminated just for that, then we will be discriminating a lot of things, like smoking for example.

Yeah, why should fat people only suffer? Smokers are ruining their health as well, let's just do to them what we are trying to do to fat people, hopefully we'll find some other category we make on humans so we get to discriminate even more. This isn't the 1960's any more, and even then problems were about racism, which the cause for was important, but this is just ridiculous for me.

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Dawgy    2039
As a non-overweight individual myself, I do not believe it is my place to tell other people what to do with their bodies.
On the flip-side, I believe it is irrational for an overweight individual to displace blame onto other people for subconsciously judging them in a negative light.
Just as I don't believe it's fair for me to tell you what to do with your body, I don't believe it's fair for you to tell me how to think.


However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors).
  • Upvote 2

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I've been obese over a period in my lifetime and I've been constantly pressured by others. As a kid, I would often be made fun of for the way I look and, since I couldn't put my finger on the people that judged me and the teacher did little to help, I felt absolutely horrible. This went on for 2 years until I switched schools, and I still felt the same. I wasn't the social type of person anymore since I was isolated and mentally beaten, even when I was already put on the ground. Making new friends was hard for me and, since I was afraid of being made fun of for "sounding stupid," I didn't talk much at all and, as a result, my conversational skills really went down the drain from there. From there, my period of faggotry began (and ended when I finished middle school) when I found that I could actually make friends online, and it was much, much easier as a "female." Yep; right now I can only wish that I could go back in time to smash my younger face against the monitor for doing something so absurd and stupid, but alas, it's too late. The least I can do now is better myself as a person and serve as a positive role model for some others, and believe me when I say that Rome wasn't build in a day.

With my experiences broken down, you may think that obesity is clearly a problem in this nation, if not everywhere else, especially for younger people, because there are so many negative repercussions of being obese that it cannot be counted with fingers. On the same note, some obese people are often inclined to consume foods in response to their stress and/or depression, which clearly makes the obesity problem only worse. Consuming junk foods can actually help the stress/depression they're experiencing by a certain degree for a certain amount of time, but the stress/depression will come back, potentially stronger with some possible feelings of guilt, which, again, makes the problem worse. All obese people capable of losing fat should know that, if they know have the choice of exercising, they should do it, especially if they've lacked the necessary amount of physical activity, which is, according to scientific studies, 3.5 miles for 3 days a week to "protect the heart," they have themselves to blame when they feel insecure about their looks. Motivation could be the problem with this, but there is really no excuse when you [i]know[/i] (key word here) you can do something to help something.

"However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors)."

This is actually well-said, but those "socially awesome overweight people" are rare finds, at least for me, if not anyone else, because, like you said, there are lots of obese people so emotionally beaten that they experience isolation, and as a result, they suffer socially unless they have some outside support, like family, friends, etc.

also lol, i just remembered the name of one of the guys that bullied me back then and googled it, and found his twitter, and after reading his tweets, needless to say, i realized he's a fucking faggot
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+rei+    34853
chiipa were you the konata guy i forget
cos like, if you were, you REALLY turned around an awful start.

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»orangeeyes    11863
Today I saw a post on reddit where some girl accused her doctor of fatshaming because she told her to eat healthier and lose weight
  • Upvote 4

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+rei+    34853
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358613733' post='3374988']
i am and i'm not ashamed of acknowledging it
[/quote]
which one?

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Lamp    1424
[quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1358612901' post='3374981']
Today I saw a post on reddit where some girl accused her doctor of fatshaming because she told her to eat healthier and lose weight
[/quote]

You may be subscribed to the wrong subreddits.

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Dawgy    2039
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358607568' post='3374949']
I've been obese over a period in my lifetime and I've been constantly pressured by others. As a kid, I would often be made fun of for the way I look and, since I couldn't put my finger on the people that judged me and the teacher did little to help, I felt absolutely horrible. This went on for 2 years until I switched schools, and I still felt the same. I wasn't the social type of person anymore since I was isolated and mentally beaten, even when I was already put on the ground. Making new friends was hard for me and, since I was afraid of being made fun of for "sounding stupid," I didn't talk much at all and, as a result, my conversational skills really went down the drain from there. From there, my period of faggotry began (and ended when I finished middle school) when I found that I could actually make friends online, and it was much, much easier as a "female." Yep; right now I can only wish that I could go back in time to smash my younger face against the monitor for doing something so absurd and stupid, but alas, it's too late. The least I can do now is better myself as a person and serve as a positive role model for some others, and believe me when I say that Rome wasn't build in a day.

With my experiences broken down, you may think that obesity is clearly a problem in this nation, if not everywhere else, especially for younger people, because there are so many negative repercussions of being obese that it cannot be counted with fingers. On the same note, some obese people are often inclined to consume foods in response to their stress and/or depression, which clearly makes the obesity problem only worse. Consuming junk foods can actually help the stress/depression they're experiencing by a certain degree for a certain amount of time, but the stress/depression will come back, potentially stronger with some possible feelings of guilt, which, again, makes the problem worse. All obese people capable of losing fat should know that, if they know have the choice of exercising, they should do it, especially if they've lacked the necessary amount of physical activity, which is, according to scientific studies, 3.5 miles for 3 days a week to "protect the heart," they have themselves to blame when they feel insecure about their looks. Motivation could be the problem with this, but there is really no excuse when you [i]know[/i] (key word here) you can do something to help something.

"However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors)."

This is actually well-said, but those "socially awesome overweight people" are rare finds, at least for me, if not anyone else, because, like you said, there are lots of obese people so emotionally beaten that they experience isolation, and as a result, they suffer socially unless they have some outside support, like family, friends, etc.

also lol, i just remembered the name of one of the guys that bullied me back then and googled it, and found his twitter, and after reading his tweets, needless to say, i realized he's a fucking faggot
[/quote]

You said something else I wanted to point out, except I didn't really have a proper or succinct way of doing so.

I believe a lot of the social anxiety experienced by obese people does carry over from childhood experiences. Little kids aren't exactly known for their sensitivity. And speaking from my own experience (and from what I've seen experienced by many friends I know), the traumatic experiences do carry over to your adult life, and there does come a point and time where if you hope to progress as a healthy individual, you must learn to cope with these negative experiences.

This is hard to do for a lot of people (fuck, it took me many years to finally figure it out), and it could lead to some of the uhh... displacement of blame you might see from these 'fat rights' groups.

This is only a theory of course, but I do believe I'm spot on.

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[quote name='rei' timestamp='1358615002' post='3374997'][quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358613733' post='3374988']
i am and i'm not ashamed of acknowledging it
[/quote]
which one?[/quote]
u
  • Downvote 3

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[quote name='Dawgy' timestamp='1358616270' post='3375003']
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358607568' post='3374949']
I've been obese over a period in my lifetime and I've been constantly pressured by others. As a kid, I would often be made fun of for the way I look and, since I couldn't put my finger on the people that judged me and the teacher did little to help, I felt absolutely horrible. This went on for 2 years until I switched schools, and I still felt the same. I wasn't the social type of person anymore since I was isolated and mentally beaten, even when I was already put on the ground. Making new friends was hard for me and, since I was afraid of being made fun of for "sounding stupid," I didn't talk much at all and, as a result, my conversational skills really went down the drain from there. From there, my period of faggotry began (and ended when I finished middle school) when I found that I could actually make friends online, and it was much, much easier as a "female." Yep; right now I can only wish that I could go back in time to smash my younger face against the monitor for doing something so absurd and stupid, but alas, it's too late. The least I can do now is better myself as a person and serve as a positive role model for some others, and believe me when I say that Rome wasn't build in a day.

With my experiences broken down, you may think that obesity is clearly a problem in this nation, if not everywhere else, especially for younger people, because there are so many negative repercussions of being obese that it cannot be counted with fingers. On the same note, some obese people are often inclined to consume foods in response to their stress and/or depression, which clearly makes the obesity problem only worse. Consuming junk foods can actually help the stress/depression they're experiencing by a certain degree for a certain amount of time, but the stress/depression will come back, potentially stronger with some possible feelings of guilt, which, again, makes the problem worse. All obese people capable of losing fat should know that, if they know have the choice of exercising, they should do it, especially if they've lacked the necessary amount of physical activity, which is, according to scientific studies, 3.5 miles for 3 days a week to "protect the heart," they have themselves to blame when they feel insecure about their looks. Motivation could be the problem with this, but there is really no excuse when you [i]know[/i] (key word here) you can do something to help something.

"However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors)."

This is actually well-said, but those "socially awesome overweight people" are rare finds, at least for me, if not anyone else, because, like you said, there are lots of obese people so emotionally beaten that they experience isolation, and as a result, they suffer socially unless they have some outside support, like family, friends, etc.

also lol, i just remembered the name of one of the guys that bullied me back then and googled it, and found his twitter, and after reading his tweets, needless to say, i realized he's a fucking faggot
[/quote]

You said something else I wanted to point out, except I didn't really have a proper or succinct way of doing so.

I believe a lot of the social anxiety experienced by obese people does carry over from childhood experiences. Little kids aren't exactly known for their sensitivity. And speaking from my own experience (and from what I've seen experienced by many friends I know), the traumatic experiences do carry over to your adult life, and there does come a point and time where if you hope to progress as a healthy individual, you must learn to cope with these negative experiences.

This is hard to do for a lot of people (fuck, it took me many years to finally figure it out), and it could lead to some of the uhh... displacement of blame you might see from these 'fat rights' groups.

This is only a theory of course, but I do believe I'm spot on.
[/quote]
What you said about the childhood experiences carrying over to your adult life is universally correct, but it actually all comes down to the person's character, which determines whether they will become stronger or weaker over the course of time.

Do you know the guy in my avatar? That's Lou Ferrigno. He was born deaf (I think?) and, as he grew, he had to cope with being made fun of by his peers simply for being deaf. In fact, he felt isolated from almost everyone back in high school, and it wasn't long after that before he grew out of his shell and became an outgoing, charismatic person. He didn't let his past experiences shake him anymore and focused on bodybuilding education with acting being his secondary occupation (he starred in almost all the Hulk movies lol).

Lou is still a role model for many deaf people today, including me because we share similar experiences. If Lou could get over his traumatic experiences, then we can too. Why can't we?

Like you said, it's the experience that separates the boys from the men.
  • Upvote 1

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[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358617328' post='3375018']
[quote name='rei' timestamp='1358615002' post='3374997'][quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358613733' post='3374988']
i am and i'm not ashamed of acknowledging it
[/quote]
which one?[/quote]
u
[/quote]
why did u neg me, i just answered your question :(

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»orangeeyes    11863
[quote name='Lamp' timestamp='1358615142' post='3374999'][quote name='orangeeyes' timestamp='1358612901' post='3374981']
Today I saw a post on reddit where some girl accused her doctor of fatshaming because she told her to eat healthier and lose weight
[/quote]

You may be subscribed to the wrong subreddits.[/quote]

Or the right ones, shitlord

But seriously I stumbled upon SRS one time, and I wish i didn't because it perpetuates my bad habit of arguing with people that I know are idiots

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»Pharaoh Atem    15772
[quote name='Lamp' timestamp='1358518026' post='3374230']
[quote name='Pharaoh Atem' timestamp='1358490694' post='3374063']
When our health is on the line - as Ash so exemplifies - we see the pounds fall easily, because there is PURPOSE beyond the mundane. It's about survival, not about tepid posturing.
[/quote]

That's like saying depressive people will just lighten up when we tell them about the health risks involved.
[/quote]

As one of the few people in the thread who've attempted suicide several times over the course of his life, I apologize for my oversight.

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»Pharaoh Atem    15772
[quote name='Dawgy' timestamp='1358616270' post='3375003']
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358607568' post='3374949']
I've been obese over a period in my lifetime and I've been constantly pressured by others. As a kid, I would often be made fun of for the way I look and, since I couldn't put my finger on the people that judged me and the teacher did little to help, I felt absolutely horrible. This went on for 2 years until I switched schools, and I still felt the same. I wasn't the social type of person anymore since I was isolated and mentally beaten, even when I was already put on the ground. Making new friends was hard for me and, since I was afraid of being made fun of for "sounding stupid," I didn't talk much at all and, as a result, my conversational skills really went down the drain from there. From there, my period of faggotry began (and ended when I finished middle school) when I found that I could actually make friends online, and it was much, much easier as a "female." Yep; right now I can only wish that I could go back in time to smash my younger face against the monitor for doing something so absurd and stupid, but alas, it's too late. The least I can do now is better myself as a person and serve as a positive role model for some others, and believe me when I say that Rome wasn't build in a day.

With my experiences broken down, you may think that obesity is clearly a problem in this nation, if not everywhere else, especially for younger people, because there are so many negative repercussions of being obese that it cannot be counted with fingers. On the same note, some obese people are often inclined to consume foods in response to their stress and/or depression, which clearly makes the obesity problem only worse. Consuming junk foods can actually help the stress/depression they're experiencing by a certain degree for a certain amount of time, but the stress/depression will come back, potentially stronger with some possible feelings of guilt, which, again, makes the problem worse. All obese people capable of losing fat should know that, if they know have the choice of exercising, they should do it, especially if they've lacked the necessary amount of physical activity, which is, according to scientific studies, 3.5 miles for 3 days a week to "protect the heart," they have themselves to blame when they feel insecure about their looks. Motivation could be the problem with this, but there is really no excuse when you [i]know[/i] (key word here) you can do something to help something.

"However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors)."

This is actually well-said, but those "socially awesome overweight people" are rare finds, at least for me, if not anyone else, because, like you said, there are lots of obese people so emotionally beaten that they experience isolation, and as a result, they suffer socially unless they have some outside support, like family, friends, etc.

also lol, i just remembered the name of one of the guys that bullied me back then and googled it, and found his twitter, and after reading his tweets, needless to say, i realized he's a fucking faggot
[/quote]

You said something else I wanted to point out, except I didn't really have a proper or succinct way of doing so.

I believe a lot of the social anxiety experienced by obese people does carry over from childhood experiences. Little kids aren't exactly known for their sensitivity. And speaking from my own experience (and from what I've seen experienced by many friends I know), the traumatic experiences do carry over to your adult life, and there does come a point and time where if you hope to progress as a healthy individual, you must learn to cope with these negative experiences.

This is hard to do for a lot of people (fuck, it took me many years to finally figure it out), and it could lead to some of the uhh... displacement of blame you might see from these 'fat rights' groups.

This is only a theory of course, but I do believe I'm spot on.
[/quote]

Yeah sure let's just let kids be kids and not feel massive amounts of pain equal to that which they inflicted

revenge is justifiable: forgiveness, no.
  • Upvote 2

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»Pharaoh Atem    15772
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358620305' post='3375045']
[quote name='Dawgy' timestamp='1358616270' post='3375003']
[quote name='ThE ChiPa MaN' timestamp='1358607568' post='3374949']
I've been obese over a period in my lifetime and I've been constantly pressured by others. As a kid, I would often be made fun of for the way I look and, since I couldn't put my finger on the people that judged me and the teacher did little to help, I felt absolutely horrible. This went on for 2 years until I switched schools, and I still felt the same. I wasn't the social type of person anymore since I was isolated and mentally beaten, even when I was already put on the ground. Making new friends was hard for me and, since I was afraid of being made fun of for "sounding stupid," I didn't talk much at all and, as a result, my conversational skills really went down the drain from there. From there, my period of faggotry began (and ended when I finished middle school) when I found that I could actually make friends online, and it was much, much easier as a "female." Yep; right now I can only wish that I could go back in time to smash my younger face against the monitor for doing something so absurd and stupid, but alas, it's too late. The least I can do now is better myself as a person and serve as a positive role model for some others, and believe me when I say that Rome wasn't build in a day.

With my experiences broken down, you may think that obesity is clearly a problem in this nation, if not everywhere else, especially for younger people, because there are so many negative repercussions of being obese that it cannot be counted with fingers. On the same note, some obese people are often inclined to consume foods in response to their stress and/or depression, which clearly makes the obesity problem only worse. Consuming junk foods can actually help the stress/depression they're experiencing by a certain degree for a certain amount of time, but the stress/depression will come back, potentially stronger with some possible feelings of guilt, which, again, makes the problem worse. All obese people capable of losing fat should know that, if they know have the choice of exercising, they should do it, especially if they've lacked the necessary amount of physical activity, which is, according to scientific studies, 3.5 miles for 3 days a week to "protect the heart," they have themselves to blame when they feel insecure about their looks. Motivation could be the problem with this, but there is really no excuse when you [i]know[/i] (key word here) you can do something to help something.

"However, I do know some pretty socially awesome overweight people. Anecdotal as this may be, I'm pretty sure you all know of fat people too that actually don't seem to suffer socially because of their being fat. I'm basically led to believe that if fat people suffer socially, it's less-so because they're overweight, and more-so because they lack self-confidence and good social skills (deficiencies which could be aided by a number of extraneous factors)."

This is actually well-said, but those "socially awesome overweight people" are rare finds, at least for me, if not anyone else, because, like you said, there are lots of obese people so emotionally beaten that they experience isolation, and as a result, they suffer socially unless they have some outside support, like family, friends, etc.

also lol, i just remembered the name of one of the guys that bullied me back then and googled it, and found his twitter, and after reading his tweets, needless to say, i realized he's a fucking faggot
[/quote]

You said something else I wanted to point out, except I didn't really have a proper or succinct way of doing so.

I believe a lot of the social anxiety experienced by obese people does carry over from childhood experiences. Little kids aren't exactly known for their sensitivity. And speaking from my own experience (and from what I've seen experienced by many friends I know), the traumatic experiences do carry over to your adult life, and there does come a point and time where if you hope to progress as a healthy individual, you must learn to cope with these negative experiences.

This is hard to do for a lot of people (fuck, it took me many years to finally figure it out), and it could lead to some of the uhh... displacement of blame you might see from these 'fat rights' groups.

This is only a theory of course, but I do believe I'm spot on.
[/quote]
What you said about the childhood experiences carrying over to your adult life is universally correct, but it actually all comes down to the person's character, which determines whether they will become stronger or weaker over the course of time.

Do you know the guy in my avatar? That's Lou Ferrigno. He was born deaf (I think?) and, as he grew, he had to cope with being made fun of by his peers simply for being deaf. In fact, he felt isolated from almost everyone back in high school, and it wasn't long after that before he grew out of his shell and became an outgoing, charismatic person. He didn't let his past experiences shake him anymore and focused on bodybuilding education with acting being his secondary occupation (he starred in almost all the Hulk movies lol).

Lou is still a role model for many deaf people today, including me because we share similar experiences. If Lou could get over his traumatic experiences, then we can too. Why can't we?

Like you said, it's the experience that separates the boys from the men.
[/quote]

Well, Lou was able to draw strength from others and say "my circumstances and story are okay, as a starting point for something greater."

I myself am the sort to be completely unsatisfied until I have a mountain of great things - there is no such thing as "okay as a starting point" for me, there is only cold hatred of the self that can only be removed by the achievement of great things, and only removed temporarily at that.

If Lou hadn't become a paragon of acting and bodybuilding and had just pursued those things as HOBBIES, he'd probably be just as worthy of our regard and respect - he just wouldn't be able to use fame as a means of getting that regard and respect from so many at one time.

There comes a point where a man snaps in a sense - a sense where, rather than say "let's pick ourselves up and build on things", he stops caring about building things up and just wants to destroy. Lou didn't have that happen to him, he built himself up as a result with that building up being his desired goal.

For me, building up is a means to the greater end of tearing down anything and anyone I see fit.

Further along the road of pain is a point of greater despair, one I feel other people fall into when they endure pain less well than even I have. That's where selfdestruction, villainy, evil, and suicide lie. They care about even fewer things than I do. At least I have the whole "must repay debts to all people who ever did a good thing for me" moral keeping me anchored, even if I hate those people or their opinions - and if I accomplish that, then there'd be nothing left to anchor me to anything except a mix of "what do I want" and "k I can now die."

I would posit that character is no sort of "innate" thing to be praised or ridiculed. The moment we do that, we decide that those who are powerful have the right to ridicule a bird of prey for being a bird of prey, and a lamb for being a lamb.

Character is ultimately born of how one reacts to their circumstances, and moreover, once conscious of their reactions and their consequences, how one DESIRES to react and whether or not they can/will force their reactions to fit to their desired reactions.

I have learned that control, which is why I can follow through on my one remaining goal despite my circumstances being what they are.

Lou likewise learned that control.

The differences of import are simply that Lou wants different things in life from me, because Lou did not reach a point of snapping that I reached. He may have taken more stress total, but if we're gonna make this about a contest of who can take the most stress without breaking, then every sort of anti-discrimination position in ethics is destroyed. The important thing in these determinations is a commitment to the damaged and broken instead of a commitment to praising those who win the stress-endurance contest.

If you cannot commit to that, there is nothing to discuss and you will be opposed at every turn with no quarter and no respect. (As, of course, a lack of commitment to that displays that the concept of respect has no real meaning.)
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Ammit    5159
I don't have a ton to add to this, but going from exercising constantly, running cross country and track and wrestling in high school, and then my first two years of college needing to maintain being in shape because of ROTC, to now where I don't do anything, I've gained weight, and I still have some body issue stuff left over from in high school where I was fairly scrawny and the only positive body types I had to reference were jacked as shit people. But I mean I've grown much more comfortable with me having put on like 30 pounds since my senior year of high school. I'm also skinny fat, but that still sucks at times because my clothing doesn't necessarily fit the same as it did before. But I mean I acknowledge that I will probably keep eating badly and that I won't be exercising consistently again for a while probably.

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how i've missed the old Atem

>[font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I myself am the sort to be completely unsatisfied until I have a mountain of great things - there is no such thing as "okay as a starting point" for me, there is only cold hatred of the self that can only be removed by the achievement of great things, and only removed temporarily at that.<[/size][/font]

[font=tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif][size=3]why do you hate yourself?[/size][/font]

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»Ocelot    2319

as a noted fat person here are my two cents

 

people should not be content with being fat. I hate it, and I hate that I lack the drive to lose the weight. I really don't understand how people can be "fat and proud" when there's really nothing to be proud about.

 

at the same time, though, I don't think it's fair to discriminate against fat people (unless the circumstance warrants it like health risks I guess) I see people say stuff like "I hate fat people because blah" and it's just weird to me

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