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Titcombe    58

.

 

 

 

 


with tenki at 2 im trying 3 duality. Just makes the deck slightly more consistent and you dont always use wolfbark every turn
@mr cook im liking the conversion side idea aswell especially for water, i find tensens to be a bit crap vs water

 
3 Duality (or 2 Duality pre-list) has always been staple in this deck for me, without a doubt.
 
Its more like a half conversion side, and its the best way to approach the side-decking early format, as you are effectively reducing the number of weaknesses you have.
 
Its wroth noting against decks like Evilswarm/Constellar/4-axis Mirror, the conversion side won't be brought in, just generic stuff like MSTs, as (although MacroSwarms may be annoying) we have a good match already against these decks. The full conversion side will be in effect against (arguably) the two biggest decks of the format, Water and 3-axis.
 
And the conversion side completely shuts down both.

I like the conversion idea. It may be the way to go if the format does what I expect it to and becomes ridiculously diverse. Reducing weaknesses could definitely be better than offensively side decking. I do feel like in certain matches that we should be aggressive. We'll need soul drain to handle water. Maxx "c" is iffy. If a deck like dragunity starts being played more, we might need to make room for it. I think Rivalry deserves a spot in the side. Evilswarm and Constellars are going to be popular I imagine, and Rivalry is absolutely hateful to those decks. DDV, EEV, Iron Wall, MST if you don't main it, Yoko, and effect veiler if you aren't maining it are all good choices.

I feel like effect veiler should be mained. If September is supposed to be overrun with fire fist, veiler probably deserves a spot in the main. With plenty of decks being playable, (again assuming this list is the real deal) like Gadgets, Karakuri, Dragunity, Rabbit in some form, and possibly Wind-up, veiler seems like a good choice.

Literally the only thing I don't like about this deck is the fact that I can't fit in everything that I want to. As the format progresses and we get a better idea of what will be commonplace, it might be smart to play 41 or 42 in order to fit what you want to fit. If the meta centralizes, then this won't be an issue.

 

I'm currently playing 1 veiler in the main along with 2 fiendish chain.I prefer fiendish as it is better in the mirror and versus water, veiler is only there for those situations when they storm you and its like your last hope. I'm currently not maining any mstes and maining 3 lance (its amazin in the mirror)

 

 

Also I really think Infernity are going to do something next format (transmodify and all that) so rivalry is pretty good against them (I know that they are all fiends, but hardly any of the xyzes are fiends)

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afr    980

- I would play 1-2 leopard as filler but duality is OK too (in 4 axis) or you could even run one yoko to get things rolling with dragon (you do not need to destroy anything to activate it).  

 

- 3 axis is hurt much more than what you would think despite being able to search tenki because it has NO way to recycle them.  

 

- Deck is still fine but now i am seriously thinking about trying to build bear.dek and splash wolfbark instead of playing dragon turbo (with creature swaps, goats and boars just to see what happens).

 

- Fiendish is amazing as the game was reverted to pre-tchyon era.  

 

4 axis is still good but got slowed down.

3 axis is still good but is more fragile now.

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Gredinus    269

Since I live in the EU I'm probably going to play the 4 axis build but in my 3 axis build I have been running 2 bear and 1 dragon to give me access to cardinal and tiger king (this was before the list even came out).

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Mr Cook    473

 


with tenki at 2 im trying 3 duality. Just makes the deck slightly more consistent and you dont always use wolfbark every turn
@mr cook im liking the conversion side idea aswell especially for water, i find tensens to be a bit crap vs water

 
3 Duality (or 2 Duality pre-list) has always been staple in this deck for me, without a doubt.
 
Its more like a half conversion side, and its the best way to approach the side-decking early format, as you are effectively reducing the number of weaknesses you have.
 
Its wroth noting against decks like Evilswarm/Constellar/4-axis Mirror, the conversion side won't be brought in, just generic stuff like MSTs, as (although MacroSwarms may be annoying) we have a good match already against these decks. The full conversion side will be in effect against (arguably) the two biggest decks of the format, Water and 3-axis.
 
And the conversion side completely shuts down both.

I like the conversion idea. It may be the way to go if the format does what I expect it to and becomes ridiculously diverse. Reducing weaknesses could definitely be better than offensively side decking. I do feel like in certain matches that we should be aggressive. We'll need soul drain to handle water. Maxx "c" is iffy. If a deck like dragunity starts being played more, we might need to make room for it. I think Rivalry deserves a spot in the side. Evilswarm and Constellars are going to be popular I imagine, and Rivalry is absolutely hateful to those decks. DDV, EEV, Iron Wall, MST if you don't main it, Yoko, and effect veiler if you aren't maining it are all good choices.

I feel like effect veiler should be mained. If September is supposed to be overrun with fire fist, veiler probably deserves a spot in the main. With plenty of decks being playable, (again assuming this list is the real deal) like Gadgets, Karakuri, Dragunity, Rabbit in some form, and possibly Wind-up, veiler seems like a good choice.

Literally the only thing I don't like about this deck is the fact that I can't fit in everything that I want to. As the format progresses and we get a better idea of what will be commonplace, it might be smart to play 41 or 42 in order to fit what you want to fit. If the meta centralizes, then this won't be an issue.

 

Main deck space isn't the issue, its the side-deck.

 

I do agree with 2-3x Rivalry in the side, shuts down Constellar/Swarm, even though we have fairly good matches against them they will no doubt be popular this format.

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Titcombe    58

- Fiendish is amazing as the game was reverted to pre-tchyon era.  

Completely agree, great vs water and the 4 axis mirror.

 

Since I live in the EU I'm probably going to play the 4 axis build but in my 3 axis build I have been running 2 bear and 1 dragon to give me access to cardinal and tiger king (this was before the list even came out).

Same about the europe thing, I dont think 3 axis stands a chance over here lol Il probly be playing 4 axis at YCS London

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Saiko    231

Currently testing this. I know people have said don't mix 4 axis with 3 axis but still this deck has so much synergy.

TdZFl0q.jpg

ignore the side just some cards there, could make trish with veiler but that's too situational plus extra is tight

boar and goats with creature swap is brilliant so far. I tried the deck without spirits leopards and rekindling but felt that they would help speed the deck up and add for more explosive plays since before was just set traps+bear yawn

I don't really think I need to explain how it works just want to fit more traps/lance in here

didn't want to run just 3axis since no Vulcan in Europe.

I am going to YCS London but its too early to decide what to run but il see you guys there (:

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Caprisun    66
So this semi on Tenki is pretty depressing. Not the worst thing that could happen, but we have to acknowledge it. What is everyone replacing it with? I'm thinking about a third lance. It would enable Gorilla and Bear to get their effects off by running over things, also if you have to put a monster on board, it's the card for the job.

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Espeon    295

So this semi on Tenki is pretty depressing. Not the worst thing that could happen, but we have to acknowledge it. What is everyone replacing it with? I'm thinking about a third lance. It would enable Gorilla and Bear to get their effects off by running over things, also if you have to put a monster on board, it's the card for the job.

Probably Duality's if you don't have those in there now, I'm deeply saddened about the Tenki at 2, it makes Cardinal that much more important.

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I understand this used to be a thing a couple of weeks ago but wasn't Consistent as 4 Axis but i have been toying around with this idea since Rooster was put to one and the return of Trish since a live Spirit + 3 Goat Tokens = plus 1 Draw and Trish. But the Extra Deck is so hard to work with since you need so much. 

 

Ignore the 3 Tenki (Should be 2) and the Side Deck, the side deck is just choice of cards i'm trying to fit into the main and the Extra Deck monsters in the side are the choices i'm trying to fit into the Main Extra Deck. 

 

 

Pq8fkjX.png

 

P.S i'm Europe TCG so i don't get the pleasure of Vulcan and Corn (Sadface) also dat Ghostrick's Artwork :)  

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DP2    5

Dude i hope you realize that Sprit cannot be used for synchro unless its a Beast warrior synchro.
 
                  Dont get me wrong, you can make Trish in the deck you are showing but it would involve Debris, a lvl 3, and two dandy/goat tokens..
                   As this is the only plausible way i would completely avoid such as it adds more dead draws and such

Secondly, i dont think the mixture of 3/4 is a viable deck due to it drawing clusters of each axis in a hand leading to once again Dead draws.

Overall, the list was a good attempt at theory-oh, and maybe viable in a more local scene, but on the competitive front the deck has way too many chances to clog.

 

On a lighter note, i have a question to pose for ya'll . In my local area,  a case tourney is expected to be held on the 18th of this month and i was wanting to take 4-Axis FF since imo it has the ability to withstand the side and pose many threats.

The ability to side into Erad, DDV, Gozen, Rivarly, Iron Wall, Emptiness, and Fissure (if needed) extend the decks reach to close to tier 1.

In short the question i wish to pose is, In this Current Format, what would u main :

 

2 Kycoo, 2 Iron wall

2 Kycoo 3 Emptiness

or 2 Emptiness 2 Iron Wall

 

PS: What is the current opnion on TKRO in the main? Or is the Stun side still in affect?

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Dude i hope you realize that Sprit cannot be used for synchro unless its a Beast warrior synchro.
 
                  Dont get me wrong, you can make Trish in the deck you are showing but it would involve Debris, a lvl 3, and two dandy/goat tokens..
                   As this is the only plausible way i would completely avoid such as it adds more dead draws and such

Secondly, i dont think the mixture of 3/4 is a viable deck due to it drawing clusters of each axis in a hand leading to once again Dead draws.

Overall, the list was a good attempt at theory-oh, and maybe viable in a more local scene, but on the competitive front the deck has way too many chances to clog.

 

On a lighter note, i have a question to pose for ya'll . In my local area,  a case tourney is expected to be held on the 18th of this month and i was wanting to take 4-Axis FF since imo it has the ability to withstand the side and pose many threats.

The ability to side into Erad, DDV, Gozen, Rivarly, Iron Wall, Emptiness, and Fissure (if needed) extend the decks reach to close to tier 1.

In short the question i wish to pose is, In this Current Format, what would u main :

 

2 Kycoo, 2 Iron wall

2 Kycoo 3 Emptiness

or 2 Emptiness 2 Iron Wall

 

PS: What is the current opnion on TKRO in the main? Or is the Stun side still in affect?

 

I'll give you a example:

Say you open, Leopard or Foolish, Scapegoats and Spirit/Leopard or Tenki

Use the Leopard to search Tenki, set the Goats + whatever else you feel like doing/have at your disposal 

Opponent attacks flip Goats (they normal kill 1 Token) so 3 Goat Token's 

Summon the Spirit (if they Veiler you can simple just use the 3 Goat Token's to go into Prince and search Rooster or Leopard depending how you feel) if they don't Veiler, get the Leopard or Rooster depending on what your options are for a target for Spirit (So your field should be Spirit + Leopard or Rooster + 3 Goat Token's) Synchro for a Prince, use Prince to search out Lonefire Blossom, use Blossom to seach out Spore, use Spore + 1 Token for Formula, Draw 1 from Formula so your board should be (Formula(2) + Prince(6) + 2 Goat Token's (1 each)) since Prince stops you from special summoning Lv5 and above you can simple use Formula to Synchro into Trishula during their turn being safe from Veiler. 

Then these the other combo of going into Trishula off Debris Dragon and the Plant side of the deck but it does add the amount of crazy combo's you can pull off with the deck idea. 

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Caprisun    66


So this semi on Tenki is pretty depressing. Not the worst thing that could happen, but we have to acknowledge it. What is everyone replacing it with? I'm thinking about a third lance. It would enable Gorilla and Bear to get their effects off by running over things, also if you have to put a monster on board, it's the card for the job.

Probably Duality's if you don't have those in there now, I'm deeply saddened about the Tenki at 2, it makes Cardinal that much more important.

Yeah, I play 3 duality. If you don't play 3 you're just not doing it right.

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Wild Caniac    421

I feel like 3 Duality would be way overkill for 3-axis. 4-axis maybe.

 

I'm not really sure what to do with Rooster at 1 and Tenki at 2. My thought is to add the 3rd Bear back and a Gorilla, which wouldn't make it too much like 4-axis. Or, I could run just more traps and be more control based, but then again, 3-axis isn't that kind of deck in my opinion.

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Caprisun    66
Ah sorry I play 4. Anything I say will probably relate to 4. Should've specified in that last post.

I don't know what 3 axis is going to do. I haven't tested the deck in any way and with 1 rooster and 2 Tenki I don't really think I'd want to. It seems like it's fragile. 4 axis is incredibly solid since it's less combo-based.

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Caprisun    66

Anyone testing 4 axis builds without dragon? It may be the direction we need to take

what

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David P    0

I feel like 3 Duality would be way overkill for 3-axis. 4-axis maybe.

 

I'm not really sure what to do with Rooster at 1 and Tenki at 2. My thought is to add the 3rd Bear back and a Gorilla, which wouldn't make it too much like 4-axis. Or, I could run just more traps and be more control based, but then again, 3-axis isn't that kind of deck in my opinion.

 

http://i.imgur.com/iePvnfB.png

 

I was a bit discouraged to test 3 axis with the list, but I ended up adding more traps in place of the missing cards and its surprisingly been working really well. I'll probably end up dropping the Tensen since I'm playing more real traps now for something else. Being able to sit on lion with real protection and get his effect twice has been really amazing, especially for adding back blaster for all kinds of shenanigans. 

 

I still want to try adding the 3rd bear and a gorilla like you said though, and probably the 3rd blaster again since I would have more targets for him. I feel going that way will also help the deck in the grindier matchups, and make Cardinal more live. I do find myself missing burner though. 

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knives1990    262
There's just not many ways to get dragons eff off with tenki at 2. 2 tenki 2 tensu and then formation traps? Yoko sucks and goyokkou isn't good either. I understand recycling our formations with cardinal will be key, and obv dragon can probably still get things done since we need 2 fists for cardinal. But with less ideal ways to get both effects out of dragon I'm not sure I see reason to keep him at 3, or even 2.
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afr    980

There's just not many ways to get dragons eff off with tenki at 2. 2 tenki 2 tensu and then formation traps? Yoko sucks and goyokkou isn't good either. I understand recycling our formations with cardinal will be key, and obv dragon can probably still get things done since we need 2 fists for cardinal. But with less ideal ways to get both effects out of dragon I'm not sure I see reason to keep him at 3, or even 2.

 

Tensen and tenken (on other FF) trigger dragon TOO, you end-up with 3 tensen in a 1 turn cycle; that is the point of dragon.

 

I tested the deck today and had very good results (i really thought that the loss of one tenki would hurt much more, but i ended up doing cardinal earlier to keep on the searches and everything went as normal for the rest of the game).

 

- 3 axis is still very good  but it feels more like a sack deck (ala samurai and darkworld) than anything else to me  because it is fragile and without vulcan there are certain instances where a single bear pop is not enough to recover a board (and horse prince looks stupid with his 2400-2500 atkat that point). Maybe running a more control oriented 3 axis version could help a lot but the deck seems geared to be built as full aggro.  A great deck builder might be able to do something with it once vulcan rolls in for USA.

 

- Bujins are whatever. They are not as bad as people say but they are as standard as heavy backrow decks go (if you are good at grinding you are good to go). They definitely merit some side deck card that has a broad use (i.e. mind crush, d. fissure, soul drain, etc), just do not completely ignore them while building your side.

 

- Mermails are still a thing and i still feel that diva + megalo + heavy happen too much. I would suggest a second abyss dweller in the extra (this deck has infinite space anyway) and prepare your side deck.

 

- Evilswarms still suck (and they merit 0 side deck cards as beetle is just crap against this deck).

 

- Constellars are pretty real (they grind backrow heavy decks pretty well thanks to omega and sheratan is not  that bad anymore), MAYBE  light imprisoning mirror can be included for this and bujin.

 

- Spellbooks are still pretty playable, Do not get overconfident when playing against them. MAYBE  NOT cutting EEV from the side deck is not a bad idea (covers heavy backrow decks, troll decks like burn and exodia, spellbook and 3 axis because they play TOO much spells).

 

- I did not test against dragons, but the new builds seem too reliant on the graveyard set-up and abyss dweller + cardinal should seal deals. I will play more tomorrow with randalls at locals to see how things go.

 

- Chain disappereance ABSOLUTELY wrecks 3 axis, so is probably great to have some of them at hand.

 

-  This deck has great match-ups against randall.deks and that is what makes it a pretty solid choice for the early format (a lot of people is trying chaos, plants or high monster beat decks).

 

- Gorz still destroys bad players (do not be one of them).

 

- Mirror force is everywhere but is easier than ever to read, just be careful and use mr. gorilla on the right one.

 

- Fiendish chain is super great now but it clogs my backrow in 4 axis :(

 

- 3 tiger kings are a must (because they are amazing in the grind game with multiple Fire formation cards).

 

- Kirin is bad, i have yet to find a solid use for the card outside of the play that involves multiple of them with deer and boar, just cut him in standard versions.

 

- Fuck trishula, it was fun for the first 5 games but it is still incredibly powerful 

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knives1990    262
I get what you're saying. I guess I'm just concerned with not having enough real backrow to actually deal with threats that can't be dealt with via battle. Thanks for the insight, I'll keep at it

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┬╗victor    6400

Maybe I'm missing something big, but why play 4 Axis when you can just play Fire Kings instead?

 

That deck just seems better to me.

 

That deck plays Bear just as well as Fire Fist, you have Tenki + Wolfberk in both decks, you have Flamvell Firedog + Magician for LV 8 Synchros (without the FIRE restriction of Boar), you can even play Rekindling if you wanted (but you don't even really need it).

 

You have Onslaught and Circle of FK, and better monsters to use them with.

 

Fencing Fire Ferret and Yaksha are really good, and it just seems better with 3 Mirror Force and people playing Torrential Tribute, Dark Hole, etc. again.

 

I mean COTH is very strong, you have Blaster and Yaksha to discard Garunix in hand, etc.

 

----------

 

Dragon Turbo just seems lame in comparison because you don't care if Garunix, Fire Ferret, and Yaksha are destroyed in battle and all your Fire Kings don't care for effect destruction.

 

What's more, you have all the strengths of Fire Fist (being able to play Imperial Iron Wall (to accompany Lance/Circle to stop RFG of Garunix), Gozen/Rivalry), but what's more, you can play Skill Drain.

 

And Overworked, lol, who cares if you destroy my Tenki boosted monsters, I get their Fire King effects.

 

------

 

As good as Cardinal is, "Bear.dek" could be so much more.

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Kyary    2424

bYoHYEC.png

 

Probably how I'm gonna play it if the lists are the same for us.

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FaipDeOaid    169
I dropped Blaster after extensive testing. The risk / reward dynamic of just wasn't holding for me. What Cook said about it a few pages ended up holding true.


Might start testing 3 Dragon / 3 Tensen again, but it feels so shitty drawing any combination of the two of them. Unless your opponent is straight up retarded and doesn't play around that setup. I'd like to go 2/2 on the ratios, but I'm struggling to find a decent monster to fill the spot. Going as far as to potentially test 2 Boar 2 Gorrilla.

What do people think about CED actually? I see it in Capris list but IMO it seems very bad next format. Maybe I'm having trouble seeing the potential in it though. I'm also completely up in the air with mst mained. I feel like triple lance and gorilla can do most of what you want to accomplish but msts main selling point for me is vs either FF matchup. Kind of like just 1 mained right now because I hate drawing multiple mst along with lance


Compulse and Lance have been mediocre for me. Might not be an indicator for Toronto (especially if the list we get is diff), but on DN, my most frequent matchups are 3-Axis, Mirror, New-Age Rulers and Mermail. Both cards ares pretty mediocre or even just shit against 3/4 of those decks, although Lance can be clutch in the Mirror.

Compulse has won me a few games, but that's when I used it to bounce my Cowboy that was getting veiler'd.

If I had a major complaint about 4-Axis, it's definitely the speed aspect. Most decks, they can take advantage of an open field by swinging for a surprising chunk of damage or even just swing for game. 4-Axis can rarely drop that level of damage. That's one of the reasons why Blaster was so hard to let go of initially.

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Mr Cook    473

I don't think Emptiness should be mained this format, there's far too much destruction about, and both 3-axis and Mermails have ways round it, while the card is subpar against other matchups.

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FaipDeOaid    169

Maybe I'm missing something big, but why play 4 Axis when you can just play Fire Kings instead?
 
That deck just seems better to me.
 
That deck plays Bear just as well as Fire Fist, you have Tenki + Wolfberk in both decks, you have Flamvell Firedog + Magician for LV 8 Synchros (without the FIRE restriction of Boar), you can even play Rekindling if you wanted (but you don't even really need it).
 
You have Onslaught and Circle of FK, and better monsters to use them with.
 
Fencing Fire Ferret and Yaksha are really good, and it just seems better with 3 Mirror Force and people playing Torrential Tribute, Dark Hole, etc. again.
 
I mean COTH is very strong, you have Blaster and Yaksha to discard Garunix in hand, etc.
 
----------
 
Dragon Turbo just seems lame in comparison because you don't care if Garunix, Fire Ferret, and Yaksha are destroyed in battle and all your Fire Kings don't care for effect destruction.
 
What's more, you have all the strengths of Fire Fist (being able to play Imperial Iron Wall (to accompany Lance/Circle to stop RFG of Garunix), Gozen/Rivalry), but what's more, you can play Skill Drain.
 
And Overworked, lol, who cares if you destroy my Tenki boosted monsters, I get their Fire King effects.
 
------
 
As good as Cardinal is, "Bear.dek" could be so much more.


Good points all around, and from my testing, people have really hopped on Torrential and Mirror Force, more so than BTH / DPrison. And it's not like you can play around the later two with Lance, Fire Circle or even your own Torrential.

I find 4-Axis just "meh". Its an alright deck, but these current builds are just underwhelming for me. Dragon & Boar are just okay cards that have brief moments of brilliance, but they're no where near as useful as Bear or Gorilla. I mean, I guess Dragon can be game-busting if you have the setup; ie grave and field is perfect enough, while the opp has no C / Crow or Veiler.

Been digging around Shriek to the early days of FF domination in Jan / Feb. Seems some builds opted to just mash both Axis to varying degrees. Maybe that's the way to take the deck? Especially if Rooster gets hit to one here as well. Idk just a thought.

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