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Hearthstone Random Talk Thread

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in other news mage is the most braindead arena class, im glad blizzard is continuing to let it dominate by printing more braindead cards like that burn card at common.

i need to hit 12 with druid, its my only class left, and idk if i can do it before getting my 5/5 killed and them getting a 5/5

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5 hours ago, Turbo Duelist Cromat said:

in other news mage is the most braindead arena class, im glad blizzard is continuing to let it dominate by printing more braindead cards like that burn card at common.

i need to hit 12 with druid, its my only class left, and idk if i can do it before getting my 5/5 killed and them getting a 5/5

I thought about this after the announcement.  And I thought, maybe they just want mage to always be the best in Arena.  Most new players play arena, you start playing the game as mage, if mage is always the best and you just play occasionally you can always pick mage when you see it.  It just seems like a conscious effort at this point.

 

To be honest though I have no idea how good mage is in Arena, I haven't played as mage in so long.

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3 hours ago, BoraxTheLean said:

I thought about this after the announcement.  And I thought, maybe they just want mage to always be the best in Arena.  Most new players play arena, you start playing the game as mage, if mage is always the best and you just play occasionally you can always pick mage when you see it.  It just seems like a conscious effort at this point.

 

To be honest though I have no idea how good mage is in Arena, I haven't played as mage in so long.

Mage is top 3 classes in arena and takes so little skill its mind blowing. Cards like this new one, faceless summoner and ethereal conjurer will keep it this way for a long time

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It's definitely a conscious choice to maintain the Mage's current level of power... or at least a certain flavor of how the class plays. They've consistently given the Mage some means of large removal over the past few expansions/adventures. The one thing to keep in mind is that dilution is a thing, and the bonus multiplier will affect the offering odds of older cards. I don't see the Mage getting significantly better even if this card is inevitably going to ruin mah day. So yeah, probably more of the status quo. I mean, I'm never happy to run into a Mage, but would you expect Blizzard to really shake things up otherwise? 

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Thematically mage just also has to have the most powerful spells, which are just always going to be very good in arena.  And they have the best hero power in arena.  I think it kind of just falls into place based on those two factors.

Like, if they wanted to make mage better in constructed and worse in arena, they could just make all of their good cards epic.  Which really sucks for constructed players tbh.  I really don't think this is just "blizzard being evil/lazy/hating specifically me" sort of thing

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When you're playing Mill Rogue. My deck can't possibly beat a deck like his !!ss (2016-08-02 at 09.59.41).png

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On 7/30/2016 at 5:36 AM, BoraxTheLean said:

Thematically mage just also has to have the most powerful spells, which are just always going to be very good in arena.  And they have the best hero power in arena.  I think it kind of just falls into place based on those two factors.

Like, if they wanted to make mage better in constructed and worse in arena, they could just make all of their good cards epic.  Which really sucks for constructed players tbh.  I really don't think this is just "blizzard being evil/lazy/hating specifically me" sort of thing

Making good cards of a PVE encounter into epics or rares make 0 difference in terms of card availability (they are no harder to get than a common) but make all the difference in the world of arena. Blizzard isn't hating or being lazy, they either are completely clueless or don't give a single fuck about arena

and no this is NOT " definitely a conscious choice to maintain the Mage's current level of power", since Brode and others have said on record that they want more variety of class choice in arena

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2 hours ago, slick said:

Making good cards of a PVE encounter into epics or rares make 0 difference in terms of card availability (they are no harder to get than a common) but make all the difference in the world of arena. Blizzard isn't hating or being lazy, they either are completely clueless or don't give a single fuck about arena

and no this is NOT " definitely a conscious choice to maintain the Mage's current level of power", since Brode and others have said on record that they want more variety of class choice in arena

Yep, doesn't matter if they're epics in an adventure.  But Faceless Summoner could've been an epic was my point.

Whenever a new set comes out do they usually print a really good card at common for all the classes?  Maybe sans rogue?  Since the new cards show up a bit more in arena.  This is another reason to include these really good cards at common that I hadn't thought of before.

I'm reading this now: http://www.pcgamer.com/mike-donais-on-one-night-in-karazhan-whether-priest-really-has-a-problem-and-if-fiery-war-axe-is-the-best-card-in-hearthstone/

Maybe he touches on it there.

Also,

Blizzard isn't hating or being lazy, they either are completely clueless or don't give a single fuck about arena

lol u mad?

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how does he really think that Tirion is the best card in the game?

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3 minutes ago, Mascis said:

how does he really think that Tirion is the best card in the game?

The metric they use to talk about this is: highest win rate when card [x] is played.  He is referring to a data driven statistic.

Hence, innervate/war axe won't fair well since it is easy to draw it early in the game and still punt away terrifically.

And after reading the bit about arena balance, it really does suck that they didn't just take a more heavy handed approach.

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1 hour ago, BoraxTheLean said:

The metric they use to talk about this is: highest win rate when card [x] is played.  He is referring to a data driven statistic.

Hence, innervate/war axe won't fair well since it is easy to draw it early in the game and still punt away terrifically.

while that make sense, i don't think that should be the statistic you derive what the "best card in the game is". of course you are more likely to win the game when you make it to turn 8 and throw down a tirion

shit like war axe and flamewreathered actually define what cards you can play.

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3 minutes ago, Mascis said:

while that make sense, i don't think that should be the statistic you derive what the "best card in the game is". of course you are more likely to win the game when you make it to turn 8 and throw down a tirion

shit like war axe and flamewreathered actually define what cards you can play.

Yeah, whatever.  I think the discussion of "best card in the game" is full of semantical nonsense no matter how you slice it.

Their definition clearly skews you towards cards like tirion and alakir.

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Instead of highest win rate when card [x] is played, the metric should be highest win rate when card [x] is in deck. With enough games comparing decks with or w/o card [x] that will give the correct result.

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whats the best warrior build to pick up for ladder, getting bored of grinding with sharman

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5 hours ago, BoraxTheLean said:

Whenever a new set comes out do they usually print a really good card at common for all the classes?  Maybe sans rogue?  Since the new cards show up a bit more in arena.  This is another reason to include these really good cards at common that I hadn't thought of before.

Since the #ArenaWarriorsMatter fiasco, I'd like to think the developers understand the importance of the common slots more. I mean, holy crap, look back at TGT Warrior commons: Bolster, Bash, and Orgrimmar Aspirant. And to their credit, they've kept Warrior well out of unplayable land and above the bottom tier classes (Fierce Monkey, Obsidian Destroyer -> First Mate, Ravaging Ghoul, Bloodhoof). But honestly, you can look through the sets and see the clear "winners" of each. The commons have been playable, yes, but outside of the upper tier classes, do the common offerings address the issues that plague the class? Eh... 

- Hunter's been in a weird spot since LoE: Dart Trap, Desert Camel -> Fiery Bat, Carrion Grub, On the Hunt. Wasn't in a good spot to play Midrange (which encouraged a draft dependent burn style) most of the time in LoE, and the situation got worse with the prevalence of taunts in WotOG. At least the bonus will disappear next expansion.

- Priest never got tools to help the early game/survive: Museum Curator, Entomb -> Darkshire Alchemist, Power Word: Tentacles

- Druid seems to be having an identity crisis at the moment. They were still ok with Raven Idol and Mounted Raptor in LoE. Now though, are they supposed to play Mark of Y'Shaarj and be the beast class? Do they play as the heavy minion class at a time where other classes are encroaching on its space (and doing better)? Also, I like to think someone had the forethought to include the armor gain on Feral Rage just due to how much face damage you can('t) afford to take with this size meta right now. Maybe something that'll correct itself in Karazhan.

- Shaman seems to be the candidate for most improved... although they still haven't addressed the fundamental problem of finding a way to stay on board. The snowball steps afterwards all fall into place (buffs, everyone's favorite 4 mana 7/7), but it's always an issue of getting things to stick first. Current slower meta can allow for wimpy totem turns to be passable plays. Stormcrack always welcome as a source of initiative.

- Paladin seems to have lost its luster since the dropoff of Uldaman offering rates. Similar issues with the Shaman and the steps required to snowball, but the quality of class cards will still save the day at times. OG offerings are playable: Stand Against Darkness, Light in the Darkness, Divine Strength

- Warlock might just be in its prime at the moment. It's one of the few classes that can get away with packing high volumes of low drops without being penalized. Board clears at a new low while most classes aren't anywhere near as fast as you in starts. Also, the ideal slow meta to tap as much as needed. Transformation since TGT: Demonfuse, Wrathguard, Fearsome Doomguard -> Dark Peddler, Curse of Rafaam -> Darkshire Councilman, Possessed Villager

I won't say much on Mage outside of TGT though: probably the one time it fell off the "undisputed" top 2 with its offerings of Dalaran Aspirant, Spellslinger, and Flame Lance as commons. Mages got forcefully shoved into a control role at a time where Paladin snowballed with little effort and Rogues could one up the Paladin.

Also, lol Rogue: Buccaneer, Undercity Valiant, Shado-pan Cavalry -> Pit Snake, Tomb Pillager -> Squidface, Shadow Strike, Bladed Cultist

 

I'd like to think that class balance in the arena is more of a long term goal that won't see immediate results. But heck, what do I know. Who knows what they have planned for release. Admittedly, the arena portion of that interview was discouraging. I mean if the devs want to equate "Spell"spinner to Firelands Portal and overlook the obvious choice of which to place as a Rare... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I hope they're doing it for SOME purpose (class identity/flavor?), and that they're printing better commons for some OTHER class(es) too and not being

8 hours ago, slick said:

completely clueless

 

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10 hours ago, Gojira said:

Instead of highest win rate when card [x] is played, the metric should be highest win rate when card [x] is in deck. With enough games comparing decks with or w/o card [x] that will give the correct result.

I also think you need to look at the win rate versus what types of decks. And also win rates when it's played on curve.

But ultimately, I think it's a semantic argument as noted above.

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The new discard Warlock cards look pretty intriguing. Silverware Golem and the draw imp guy look legit enough to make it viable. I mean, it's basically viable as standard zoo anyway, and you can't reap any benefit from the discards.

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t1 imp, t2 succubus hope you discard silverware golem

also medivh makes Harrison great again

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I feel like succubus is probably still too bad to play.  It is close tho with silverware golem.


I am quite curious to see if Medivh sees plays...it is really slow.  But I guess the following turn you can really go off if you're mage or otherwise playing big spells.

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I'd probably try playing librarian before succubus. That card is almost good enough to run as it is.

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Alright guys, I need a bit of help. I haven't played the game in a month or two, but the Tavern Hero Qualifier tournament is coming up and I need to figure out what classes to bring. It looks like a bring4ban1 format. So far, I'm at:

1) lolzoo

2) 4 Mana 7/Overused Meme

..and that's about it. Just pretty generic things. My goal here isn't to counter the meta, just bring 4 strong decks that can help me not go 0-2.

Right now I'm considering a couple of things:

- Midrange Hunter. Call of the Wild obviously good, the new Grandmother card seems nice with Houndmaster (Night in Alakazam cards are allowed)

- Innervate, Wild Growth, and 26 other cards. What do Druids use these days? My Druid deck is likely very outdated, being a basic C'thun lineup. 

- Warrior? I have a Pirate Warrior deck ready to go, but afaik Worgen is the new hotness? Or is it actually Dragons? I'm not the best player and could never figure out Patron Worgen, so how do the decks rank on the  "easiest to play" vs. "actually good" axes?

- N'zoth Paladin? My only concern is that this deck would cannibalize my dust, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

- not priest

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2 hours ago, JC. said:

Alright guys, I need a bit of help. I haven't played the game in a month or two, but the Tavern Hero Qualifier tournament is coming up and I need to figure out what classes to bring. It looks like a bring4ban1 format. So far, I'm at:

1) lolzoo

2) 4 Mana 7/Overused Meme

..and that's about it. Just pretty generic things. My goal here isn't to counter the meta, just bring 4 strong decks that can help me not go 0-2.

Right now I'm considering a couple of things:

- Midrange Hunter. Call of the Wild obviously good, the new Grandmother card seems nice with Houndmaster (Night in Alakazam cards are allowed)

- Innervate, Wild Growth, and 26 other cards. What do Druids use these days? My Druid deck is likely very outdated, being a basic C'thun lineup. 

- Warrior? I have a Pirate Warrior deck ready to go, but afaik Worgen is the new hotness? Or is it actually Dragons? I'm not the best player and could never figure out Patron Worgen, so how do the decks rank on the  "easiest to play" vs. "actually good" axes?

- N'zoth Paladin? My only concern is that this deck would cannibalize my dust, but that shouldn't be a big deal.

- not priest

Is it LHS or Conquest?

I would play midrange shaman without 4 mana 7/7 because lightning storm is king.

I would also play druid and (Dragon) warrior because best classes if it is LHS.  if it is conquest you have more flexibility.

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The format is Conquest.

I actually do like playing Midrange Shaman the most and it is the one I've played the most, I just assumed it was weaker. Thanks for the suggestion!

Druid and Warrior is about where I was at too, I just need to start doing some research on what proper decklists for these classes resemble. 

 

Edit: Thoughts on Earth Elemental as a tech since Zoo/Druid/Aggro Shaman don't tend to run hard-removal? (Or do they actually run Mulch/Naturalize/Hex?) I'm guessing no due to Execute from Warrior?

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One Night in Karazhan was fully spoiled, looks like Priest will be the worst standard class for another 6 months.  Personally a fan of Swashburglar and Cat Trick

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1 hour ago, aurirevoir said:

One Night in Karazhan was fully spoiled, looks like Priest will be the worst standard class for another 6 months.  Personally a fan of Swashburglar and Cat Trick

I'm a fan of the priest 5 drop.

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