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Aaron

Clean versus Dirty

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Aaron    2034

What is everyones thoughts on eating clean vs dirty?

 

Clean = only cottage cheese, vegatables, chicken breast, salmon, nuts, sweet potatos, brown rice, brown bread, natural PB, avocados, 

Dirty = Ice Cream chocolate, pancakes, apple crumbles, skippys peanut butter, ben and jerrys, chicken wings, bacon,  BBQ chicken thighs, BBQ ribs, pizza, 

 

Obviously [b]whichever one always hits your macros[/b] and dirty is still includes a healthy dose of vegatables for your micros and same calorically. 

 

 

 

This week I am planning to do a diet where I either get the majority of my carbs from deserts or I get loads of my fats from fatty proteins.. or both.  So basically my meal plan for one day will be: tub of B&J ice creams, 3/4 kilo of chicken wings, 3/4 kilo of chicken thighs, loads of green salad etc, maybe a bowl of shredded wheat for fiber.

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JJ Snatch    118

Or you can just keep a clean diet entirely and save that garbage for cheat days?

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Aaron    2034

or i can just not have cheat days and enjoy my diet 24/7 

 

nutritionally, so many people are so ill informed. GI index importance being over pronounced, micronutrients being overblown despite a whole pizza probably fulfilling a lot of micronutrient needs etc etc. 

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J.A.C.K.    29
Tbh I think iifym eliminates the clean vs dirty argument. Define dirty nowadays? iifym then of course your calorie intake can cope with it.

Personally I think eating clean simply allows you to eat more. Getting your protein from lean sources, your carbs from sources that are low in fat (n even protein) and getting fat sources from like nuts or avocados.

Eating dirty to me just means my food intake is lowered and meat usually ends up on the fatty side, carbs end up on the fatty side and I eliminate the need to eat more fats to make up those macros.

I've stopped with the brown rice (long grain only), I have high fat red meat sometimes, big dirty tesco cookies, chocolate here and there... Yet still get all of my macros in and loose 1.5-2lb per week.

Dieting is all about variance, psychology and determination, the former 2 being most important IMO. Dirty foods help me keep my sanity, and even more so when I'm having them on a clean non-cheat day.
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Aaron    2034

^^ yes you know your stuff. thank you!!

 

 

i laugh when people hit their macros with "clean foods" then say they have a cheat day every week or some dumb shit compared to someone who just eats food which hits their macros and never cheats. 

 

 

J.A.C.K you pretty much hit the nail on the head though IMO. I was just wondering what others opinions/feelings were.

 

It is hard because when we all start lifting, we eat brown rice, sweet potato, chicken breast blablah... and its hard to come to the realisation we can eat what we want but just excersise portion control. I feel like an idiot.. when I was younger eating 2-3 tins of tuna with TBSps of PB when i could have just had a fucking bowl of chicken wings!! 

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JJ Snatch    118
If your diet sucks when keeping it "clean" then you're probably just really bad at cooking (no offense)... I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be a dick about this; I'm speaking in terms of having optimal results. Also, I'm far from ill-informed, especially on nutrition. I don't know if you just simply choose to sweep aside anything I've said in the past/ will say in the future because of my lack of involvement in this section of the forum, but that seems to be the general attitude of people here on DGz. I realize you can do well in health and fitness by including such junk foods in your diet, but you can do far better, while reaching your goals faster by leaving those things to seperate designated days instead of integrating them daily throughout your diet.

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Aaron    2034

I love eating salmon, chicken, sweet potato, etc. But I don't think they will help me reach my goals or anyone elses goals much faster than ice cream. cookie dough, chicken wings, if eaten in moderation to fit macro nutrient and micronutrient requirements.  oh and I don't care if you make 10000 posts in this forum or 1 post. I just read and respond what is written. 

 

 

 

I disagree with your point that these "better" foods will help me reach my goals faster if i designate them to one "cheat day". 

 

Maybe we have a misunderstanding if you are well informed about nutrition because my OP is fairly convoluted. 

The question was basically if I get 2200 calories, 200g of carbs, 200g protein, 90g of fat from ice cream, chicken wings, whey protein, cheese cake and bacon... then someone else gets 2200 calories, 200g of carbs, 200g protein and 90g fat from sweet potato, brown rice, tuna, chicken breast... do you think the latter is far superior to progress than the former?

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Aaron    2034

so why did you make this thread lol

 

 

I wanted to gauge DGZ's opinion on clean versus dirty because I feel some information which I myself have given on this board and which I've read over the past few years has been skewed in the favour of bro science instead of simplicity. 

 

e.g. throw out your white rice for brown rice, eat whole meal bread etc. porridge instead of cereals. 

 

Of course such things as porridge has its advantages in terms of curing satiety better than your average cereal but a lot of people who switch out cereal for porridge, do it thinking its a miracle food when their cereal was probably delivering similar macros and wasn't holding them back that much. Then we can throw in the debate of health and just body composition for shits and giggles, i.e. do certain fats/sugars cause diabetes/chd. 

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J.A.C.K.    29

If your diet sucks when keeping it "clean" then you're probably just really bad at cooking (no offense)... I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be a dick about this; I'm speaking in terms of having optimal results. Also, I'm far from ill-informed, especially on nutrition. I don't know if you just simply choose to sweep aside anything I've said in the past/ will say in the future because of my lack of involvement in this section of the forum, but that seems to be the general attitude of people here on DGz. I realize you can do well in health and fitness by including such junk foods in your diet, but you can do far better, while reaching your goals faster by leaving those things to seperate designated days instead of integrating them daily throughout your diet.


iifym proves otherwise though.

Protein - the difference here is not how clean the source is but the pdcaa score. Beef has a better score than chicken yet it's a fattier source of protein. The higher or closer to 1 (where 1 being the best forms of protein such a eggs, milk, casein, whey) the better than protein and the more amount of amino acids the body takes in.

Carbs: Essentially all of which are broken down into different types of sugar anyway. White forms of carbs still contain vitamins/ minerals and unless your diet consists of 100% simple carbs the GI index of any food means nothing, seeing as eating medium-high gi valued carbs with fats will slow digestion down and eating with protein will slow digestion even more so.

Fats: the only real difference in eating clean is fat intake, seeing as unsaturated/poly/mono are the recommended variants yet saturated is required especially by men for natural testosterone and hormone production. Eating a lot of bad fats is essentially bad for you (I.e. lots of sat or trans fats) but going over board is quite hard when trying to hit even the biggest of macros.

Cheat days are designed to a) allow the body to re-feed and increase carbohydrate intake on a calorie deficit diet, b) help with psychological sanity and the boredom of dieting and c) help kick start the metabolism of the body, shocking the digestive tract in order to put the body in a state where it doesn't get used to a diet.

Eating clean simply means eating your macronutrients from lean sources, thereby allowing you to eat more in a day. For example, I have 2 types of food days: red meat and tuna days. I can eat alot more food on the 'tuna day' simply because my macronutrients are coming from leaner sources.

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Aaron    2034

A few girls were at my place the other night and wanted to get a bite to eat. I told them I was on a diet so couldn't be arsed going.

 

They came back and I was eating a whole oven pizza, a plate of chicken stir fry, a protein PB milkshake and a slice of cheesecake. They would not believe that what I was eating was part of a ridiculously regimented diet catered towards hitting a specific amount of protein, carbs and fats. 

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+rei+    34670
the very definition of clean is subjective.
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ZOMBOiD    58

Please please please track this. You work at a hospital, I'm sure you can figure out a way to get accurate bodyfat testing. Would be very interested to see if it works.

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Aaron    2034
Yeah I'm more interested in blood tests tbh to see how my fasting glucose is affected.

In terms of body composition, I can say zombies source of foods matters little based on science available today.

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ZOMBOiD    58

It just feels weird having source of food not matter, especially since with most people macros don't really matter that much either. That pretty much narrows it down to protein being the only thing that matters, as well as getting good foods in, greens/efas/etc. I know personally I felt better when I didn't eat any grains at all and only consumed meat, oils, nuts, veggies, fruit, but I mean I guess I could just have a mild gluten intolerance or it could be psychological, but I always at least somewhat attributed it to eating clean. Pretty easy to deceive yourself though.

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Aaron    2034

hit minimum protein

hit minimum fats

hit micronutrients

hit calories

 

job done 

 

Some foods will make you feel better I guess... and thats part of the balance. Finding foods which feel aid your performance in the gym! 

 

Some unhealthy foods high in salt might encourage water weight holding etc... but in the long run, recent research and general belief in the BB community is what was preached 5 years ago is now obsolete. 

 

Being able to mix up your foods is also central to diet adherence. There is no point "eating clean" 80% of the time, then 20% of the time cheating. If I afforded myself a cheat day, I could kill of 7000 calories+ easily and put my progress back an easy month. 

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Some foods will make you feel better I guess... and thats part of the balance. Finding foods which feel aid your performance in the gym! 

this and this only

 

if eating clean helps you feel better; on your plate, in the gym, on the toilet etc, then so be it.

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Aaron    2034

yes!

 

thats why I really feel the need to have shredded wheat every morning if i can. It always makes me feel decent in the gym, and the toilet the next day usually goes very quickly and well. 

 

likewise a tub of icecream on a rest day is really awesome to eat over an hour or two of watching TV and studying. 

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Gary Oak    846

It's quality of proteins, carbs and fats that's an issue too. You may hit the numerical numbers but in terms of quality it will be lowered.

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Aaron    2034

Define "quality" please.

 

GI debate has been proven near irrelevant (thats how fast or slow carbs are absorbed for people who aren't very good at science) for body composition. 

Micronutrients are covered and not at all hard to hit. 

 

Quality of fats I could agree with to an extent (i.e. to stop heart disease, hyperlipideamia, diabetes mellitus) and fish oils being proven for better joints (link to decreased osteoarthiritis and  rheumatoid) 

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Aaron    2034

i meant to body composition. not general health/diseases so much.  obv if u get all your carbs from sugars, you will be in trouble but the whole "sugars are evil" shit is old now. 

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SSJ Grumpig    5620

while i am new, my whole thing on dieting is that humans have been evolving for millions of years to get nutrition from wherever the fuck we can get it. as long as i'm getting my macros right it's fine, i highly doubt the body will differentiate significantly between macro nutrients from the same type of source

 

that being said obviously it's always going to be much better if you can buy organic, non processed foods and cook your own shit. however as i shopped for groceries with quarters today not all of us have this option

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J.A.C.K.    29
Aaron, quality of protein was what I talked about regarding the pdcaa values and quality of fats is in the same post I made.

I also addressed Quality of carbs, but honestly it all comes down to whether u think the GI value of a carb makes a huge difference (and remains/ digests as a high/med/low gi food)

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Gary Oak    846

I'm not saying it's not an approach -- it clearly is. However I would go as far as to say 99% of athletes use specific scientific detail to calculate their intake, what foods etc. So perhaps it's not wrong but it's not the most optimal. You don't see an Olympian preparing his body for maximum energy exertion (whatever the exercise may be) with what we'd define as dirty food. I'm no food scientist but the body can absolutely detect the difference in quality of food -- I know this from personal experience because above all else when I eat clean I feel healthy and I'm full of energy, when I eat shit I feel shit and run down despite the macro-micro nutrient boxes being filled.

 

Then again that 1% left will be those genetic freaks like was it Bolt who just eats chicken nuggets before a race? So like I said, it is possible.

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