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Official Chaos Return Format - April 2006

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3 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

If you're going to fix the format, then you should probably fix it the whole way: don't semi/limit cards that could be at 3 and not cause any harm whatsoever (Mask/Goat/Drop Off/etc)... don't Konami this.

 

They had them at 1.  I put them at 2, on a cautionary basis.  In any way you slice it, in this regard, they're better at 2 than 1.

 

On Lightning Vortex and Exiled Force, I think they laxed them later in the format, but the first list of the format shows them limited.

 

3 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

I really don't get your love of DHole: the card is quite simply broken in every pre-modern format that doesn't have at least 4 power floaters (Critter) or is just in a format so slow and so weak that it isn't usable to anywhere near it's full potential (YKL). It's a power card that makes you lose when you play around it because it literally hard-prevents you from extending and weakens all your aggro plays, and a power card that wins games by itself when you don't play around... all it is at this point is a sack enabler, because it almost becomes partially correct to not play around it.

 

Due to the negative synergy with Cyber Dragon.  The format lacked outs to Cyber Dragon and Cyber Dragon lacked a weakness; in this regard, you can't benefit from Dark Hole if you have a large field presence.  While I don't necessarily love Dark Hole, it is worth experimenting for these reasons just to see if it yields a positive change.

 

3 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

Why would you LIMIT dustshoot? Banning it is understandable, and having it at 3 is also undestandable, but having it at 1 turns it into an obnoxious sack card in much the same way that confiscation was.

 

With my ban on Confiscation, I figured I'd allow one hand removal card.  Trap Dustshoot was still sort of underrated at the time, although it wasn't as good in that format as modern Goat players find it.  I'd debate a ban for sure, but at the moment, banning a card will require justification and leaving Dustshoot at 3 is just not a good idea.

 

3 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

 

Umm... you do realize that you left CyDra at 3... right???

 

Yes.  I feel like hitting it would be like hitting the Trinity, BLS or TER in Goat Format: Balanced but maybe a step too far.  It may be worth cutting to 2 to promote conservation of resources.

 

3 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

 

Oh.... yeah... I forgot... why even bother fixing this format when it's meh even in principle: you're better off playing a variant of Goat Format then you are a variant of a lousy, worse version of it (there are surprisingly few differences to the playable cardpool, except for treeborn frog).

 

Because the format has a different tempo and card pool; additionally players may want to simply try out different formats and strategies.  By this logic why have any of the retro formats if Goats are clearly the best one.  Different retro formats have their own purpose.  With May 2002 Yugi-Kaiba format, for example, it's not as skillful as Goats, but it's still fun to play every now and then.

 

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Brandis72    10

My point at the end was specifically that the playable card pools are actually extremely similar: Goat and Spicer only have about five-ten relevant card differences with eachother, and the only format defining one is treeborn.

Goat (yes, it isn't perfect, but the concept is probably the best one there is under that cardpool) is for the most part the same thing with a better banlist leading to more skillful and enjoyably grindy gameplay.

 

There IS a good argument for playing YKL/Critter, because those formats actually DO have a radically different cardpool from Goat, and that makes them interesting, and ''less stale'' than Goat.

 

Fair, CyDra is indeed integral to the format... but it makes the format worse in almost every single way, and brings up the simple point: why not just play Goat, or a modified version of Goat like this one to diversify the format, while still keeping it high-skill:

 

Post-CRV ''Diversified'' Goat

 

BANS

Sinister Serpent

Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning

Pot of Greed

Graceful Charity

Delinquent Duo

Exarion Universe (reduces diversity and doesn't make the format better in any shape or way; you can't even say it makes Zoo better because it answers itself and leads to every single deck playing walls, thus making Zoo weaker)

Card Destruction (kills empty jar, all the while making certain decks, like chaos less sacky without killing them)

All floodgates (stall, effect negation, so forth)

 

LIMITED

Cyber Dragon (perfectly fair at 1; helps chaos and monarchs all the while making scapegoat more important)

 

UNLIMITED

All the pointlessly banlisted irrelevant/fair cards (altwin/burn should be practically dead without floodgates, so bringing back all the janky draw power and burn will be fine; bringing back good but fair support cards like Exiled Force, Abyss Soldier, Reflect Bounder, Creature Swap, and many more... Morphing jar should definitely still stay limited for fear of abuse, but Cyber Jar could possibly come back, although that seems pretty daring when considering it's power in aggro-combo).

If you want a full list of cards, PM me and I'll feed you all my ideas.

 

If you want to do something new, then a much better idea than messing around with post goat formats would probably be to experiment with modified (in other words, without all the total bullshit cards, like Imperial Order, Yata, targeting hand control, and so forth) pre-IOC formats, like Tomato (MRL) format or DDWL (DCR) format.

I also have lists for five different pre-chaos time periods, all of which seem fairly interesting and unique.

On the other hand, if you like good (healthy) modern formats, there's always HAT/Edison/DUEA-Pre-NECH/CBLZ. and if you want stuff that's kind of modern and kind of old at the same time, TDS/PCM. 

 

EDIT: heh, I guess you can argue that this goat format isn't really goat format due to the lack of power 5, but those cards are the source of goat being tier 0, and if you want diversity while still keeping goat tier 1, removing them seems like the best option by far

 

Edited by Brandis72

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Tom Brady    79
On August 23, 2013 at 11:33 AM, Faint said:

This was my favorite format. Faint - DGzFaint.

 

Fuck Last Will though, they changed the ruling just before the start of this format so you could play it AFTER your monster had been destroyed, if I remember correctly.

 

Also Tailong from etc made a 12 monarch deck, I dunno if he pioneered it or what but it was insane. Basically have 12 monarchs, 3 cydras, jinzo and goldd as your tributes. Hit treeborn into the grave early and then a monarch every turn and you've basically won. If you don't draw treeborn, it's a good job you deck 3 soul exchange, 3 econ, brain control...etc. Problem is bad draws, hand full of monarchs ): but when it got going it was pretty impossible to stop.

 

Also, victory in my first game vs bigdevilyogi, good games. I have my old deck for this format that I absolutely love. Wasn't a Viral Toolbox pretty awesome this format too? So many viable decks this format, it was so versatile it was fantastic!

do you have Tailong's list? or remember it off the top of your head?

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Faint    5720

I dont but i mean its pretty simplistic in concept. Pack monarchs, jinzo, tomatis, sangan, treeborn...etc

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