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Welchy    568
Just wondering, why havnt you guys discussed maiden? Was she written off as too inconsistent? Or do you find her to be lackluster?

In my opinion, she offers another win condition apart from world and can even create some broken setups. She acts as an otk stopper as well.

On the other hand, drawing blue eyes is almost like drawing world, albeit not as bad considering maiden special Summons from anywhere. using pwwb and Raigeki break mitigate this quite a bit.

I just think it should be looked at further, it's pretty nasty sitting on azure and sometimes multiples. Making cards like arcanite and star eater is real too.

Posting from phone so sorry for vagueness.
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dexer008    805

Just wondering, why havnt you guys discussed maiden? Was she written off as too inconsistent? Or do you find her to be lackluster?

In my opinion, she offers another win condition apart from world and can even create some broken setups. She acts as an otk stopper as well.

On the other hand, drawing blue eyes is almost like drawing world, albeit not as bad considering maiden special Summons from anywhere. using pwwb and Raigeki break mitigate this quite a bit.

I just think it should be looked at further, it's pretty nasty sitting on azure and sometimes multiples. Making cards like arcanite and star eater is real too.

Posting from phone so sorry for vagueness.

My build is still the blue-eyes build, and I know it might sound horrid but was considering 2 blue-eyes even because when you get your only blue-eyes banished its the saddest thing in the world :/ But yes maiden, I find maiden to be bossly, and the amount of flexibility and utility she brings just for being a tuner really utilises your extra more, which is something prophecy doesn't do too well. 

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Now my question to you is how is your Blue Eyes getting banished? I really hope it isn't getting bottomlessed on the targetting effect because if so you can't even bottomless that.

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Justice is not a bad card it's just that there are only fourty slots and the times where you roll blueboy turn one with a full set-up into a justice play the following turn don't occur versus Dragons. You have to play more important cards. I wouldn't hate on anyone playing one though in a world build.

tbh if i'm going first and see a blue guy and justice in my hand and I can play a book that doesn't subtract what I have like wisdom or power i'm just gonna go for justice most of the time. I like to set myself up for a turn 2 potential blue guy + secrets master priestess. If you summon blue guy turn 1 and get the tower setup going first of all you are more than likely playing against dragons in which case they will prolly just Ravine over tower and you'll be stuck with a justice that won't really do much for the rest of the game in hand. Anyway my point is resolve your Justice as early as possible you arent beating dragons with just that blue guy setup. Even if it leaves you defensless(youll probably have at least one trap) for one turn its highly unlikely that you are going to die turn 1 or even get pushed in for massive damage. Then you just push them back with priestess and lock them up.
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dexer008    805

Now my question to you is how is your Blue Eyes getting banished? I really hope it isn't getting bottomlessed on the targetting effect because if so you can't even bottomless that.

Just random's using d-prison and other banishing effects, like kycoo or opposing fates for one. 

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Condog    10

So which build do u guys think is better world/temperence build or the justice/priestess version

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Titcombe    58

Maiden is pretty good IMO but sadly she does make the deck slightly more inconsistent, what with having to Blue-Eyes with her and while she can obviously summon Blue-Eyes from hand herself I still do not want to draw the thing. Also I played with the deck for awhile and realised that obviously the opponent is never gonna attack her (unless they have some way of playing around it, which is bad regardless) and they can easily just bait out the targeting effect and then run over the Blue-Eyes with Star Eater (One time my opponent Big eyed maiden I summon bewd then then ss a big dragon and used maiden as tuner for scrap I think :( ). Also Maiden is kinda average late game, its good in the early game as it lets you have a spellcaster hang around for master and fate and such in the next turn but late game theyl be able to do more plays like I described. I think the deck is good but I really just think the best version of books right now is justice/kycoo/priest build.

 

Edit: I definitely dont think Maiden should be played with the World build, way too inconsistent, but it could be good with the justice build though you would have a lot of normal  summons.

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Welchy    568
I have to disagree with you on a few things. Maiden gives this deck a non linear route for field presence, which actually strengthens the late* game quite a bit.

It gives the deck an alternate win condition. I noticed myself not giving two shits if I drew world. I obviously supplement the extra dead draw with more discard traps, but that actually helps me more in things like the field spell wars and protecting my azure-eyes/magician.

I feel like protecting tower is way more important now that ravine is seeing massive amounts of play. Having as many outs as possible to ravine while still being able to protect your field and still play books is a very tricky thing. You need to have as many traps with the highest utility as possible to be able to accomplish this sort of thing.

With that being said, I feel like both the blue-Eyes and the world engines accomplish the same things, but in different ways. The benefit is having either one at your disposal if the other gets stopped or hindered a la drawing the boss monster.

Also you have to take into consideration the versatility maiden gives the extra deck by allowing for synchro access. Arcanite magician, tempest magician, librarian, star eater etc. etc. Are all easily made via maiden+life.

I'm not sure if this is relevant, but milling boss monsters with sixth sense happens more than you might think. I tend to call 3/4 because milling 5/6 can be beneficial in making fate and tower live.

Overall, I feel like maiden has been an amazing addition to the deck and might just be what this deck needed to make it tier 1 again.

Edited.
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based inc    36

Haven't had a chance to really play lately since I've been too busy with Y.  I'm probably going to be testing a Maiden build with sided Imperial Iron Walls similar to the idea with Dragunity dragons doing so (and the OCG).

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Darthflaw    124
I tested maiden for a few weeks the last time this conversation almost kinda happened. The problems I had were that I would almost always want to summon another monster than her at almost any point in the game, be it a blue boy to get the deck going or a temperance to fetch priestess or world. I think the most use I got out of her was throwing her out when I was already at a disadvantage in the game to try and stall until I could stabilize, and even the she wasn't that great since dragons would just attack her to bait her effect then big eye my blue eyes. Mermail would just make gaios and kill her. I don't think I need to mention how much she made my evilswarm matchup suffer. There's also the fact that you will draw blue eyes in that deck and sit there staring at him until you can pitch him for pwwb or rageki break.
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Welchy    568
The maiden engine gives the deck something to do when it just can't go off. I havnt bricked a hand like I did 1/8 games or so with the standard world books. The concept of bricking a game and auto losing is a thing of the past now. How can you look past that?

Also, consider the possibility that you might not have used her properly. The way I see it, ending with azure eyes and a protected tower is just as strong if not stronger than ending blue-boy and fate. Sometimes you use her as a turn 2 play to have azure-Eyes, magician, and fate. Sometimes you just use her to keep fate/ live in the early game. She has many applications and to say you would just rather summon something else at any point of the game is just silly.

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Crutches    772

BoM has found its way in and out. Double Power for triggering Maiden along with the normal Power plays. But yeah BoM is probably better.

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Welchy    568
Power is not as good because its easier to make maiden miss its opportunity to activate. If your opponent chains something to power, you can't activate maiden. Power is good but you never need more then one, even in maiden books I've found.


Also, just want to say - "told you so" to prophecygroundz about justice. I was talking about her being as great card that increases consistency and making the deck better and proceeded to get negged. Sweet sweet justice, pun intended.


Anyways, @crutches: I find it interesting that you decide to cut temperance and world. I actually still like the unfairness and broken plays world adds even though it does increase inconsistencies. To give you an idea, I use:
3 Maiden
3 Magician
3 Temperance
1 High Priestess
1 World of Prophecy
1 Blue-Eyes White Dragon

I prefer to not use reckless because it only seemed good when I had multiples, and usually wanted as real trap instead. I find that in this deck, the more discard traps to protect your field Spell the better. If you can get your tower to stick for a few turns you can win easily through world or maiden, sometimes hpop. I don't have to give my opponent more then 5 turns anymore with all the otk routes available.


I don't blame you in running justice to increase consistency, but I find I don't have that much of an early game problem like I used to. I can usually get SOMETHING going, and like 2/3rds of the time I'm doing broken shit. I still really like world and what it does for the deck and with the addition of maiden, I just don't have the room to support a full priestess engine.

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Titcombe    58

The Justice/Kycoo version has been really good for me, like I have not lost to dragons/water at all with the deck and it has been really consistent. I am finding siding a problem though. I tried Jowgen and I still dislike the card early game Dragln can get over it and late game while you could potentially nuke the field with more likely than not Dragons are going to have an out to out. It is also horrible vs dragunity rulers when you summon it Phalanx is an out and Dux is aswell.

 

[spoiler]http://i.imgur.com/cJrjJZy.png[/spoiler]

 

This is my current list. I may try Maiden in the list but I'm still not sold on the card. Duality was terrible so I took it out. I always found myself grabbing a trap off it but that sucked because they knew I had a fate and the trap I got off duality so I figured I'd add more traps. Also this deck while not as much as world.dek does special summon, I'm usually summoning Priestess sooner or later and Duality just sits in my hand as a dead card.

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Keitzo    33

I'm not really sure why people have ended up dropping Maxx C here. It's understandable in the Justice/Kycoo builds but Maxx C is incredibly good in Temperance or builds with Maiden. Dragons know we have fate down (with world or maiden on the field sometimes) and those kinda fields usually take some special summoning to break. Even with earlier less powerful fields the knowledge that their 1 play will be stopped by fate usually encourages them to make a second play so when you Maxx C it puts them in a really tight spot.

 

Also I actually love reckless in the deck but I've currently dropped the 3 reckless' I play for 2 Refpanel and 1 Sixth Sense. Because there are two things better than drawing 2: One of them is drawing 2 whilst making your opponent minus, the other is drawing 5-6. It's a risk and certainly a lot worse/completely useless against random decks but I'd rather be as strong as possible for Dragons and expect to play 70-80% dragons at London. 

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Welchy    568
Maxx c doesn't really accomplish anything. Its there as a defensive measure but won't be anything other then an upstart goblin unless your opponent is going to kill you.

I also find it useless when I have world or blue eyes up considering how easy colossal fighter is to bring out. I don't want to set up a colossal otk for my opponent.
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Keitzo    33

It's an upstart goblin that effectively ends your opponents turn meaning you can push your advantage further on your next. You're always going to have 2 cards they have to get through. Sometimes even 3-4 in some scenarios. (Fate + 1 trap, then either Maiden or World) which can't die to their lone dragon you just "upstarted" on. After this it's just a case of simplifying the game state and shutting off their colours which is usually my go-to game plan against Dragons. Best ways of doing this tend to be keeping the amount of plays they can make in one turn down, keeping ravine off the field (perhaps the most important thing) and every turn removing colours from the game. After that you can just enjoy your plusses off tower and keep control of the game barring that brutal Sixth Sense/Return.

 

I mean I'm a huge fan of Maxx C and I don't currently run Maiden (still testing it, probably won't play it in the end) but surely with Maiden Maxx C becomes even better because Maiden + Maxx C is simply a dominating position vs Dragon. Also we're not playing trapless dragons of last format (and storm is banned), we're playing Prophecy with searchable fates and plenty of backrow. I don't really believe a Colossal otk is something that's likely to come up even vs blue-eyes or world. I mean it could happen of course but I would never consider it a downside of using Maxx C right now.

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Welchy    568
Obviously I'm not, but in my deck I'm often sitting with blue eyes /world up and I've found that Maxx just isn't necessary past turn 1.

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