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MrMcThrasher    1274

Ok so going back to the relevant topic, is there any monster we should play not named temperance, world, or magician of prophecy?

 

Every other monster has pros and cons, but is it necessary to play more than those 8 staple? if so, whats the best option?

 

Not counting veiler (although you can summon it), I have tested priestess with justice, stoic with foolish, cardcar d, breaker, MoF, apprentice magician, and even tsukuyomi, and all these have been subpar at different times, so is there anything I'm missing or we should just play more traps instead?

Kycoo is always going to have practical applications, so he's definitely your best bet.

 

Outside if him, not sure.  Cardcar D seems lame when we already have such amazing search power.  Magician Of Faith is good, but ironically not for this deck since our other normal summons can be spent on something more important.  I also still don't miss Priestess (I am only speaking for myself though, of course).

Tsuk is definitely the most interesting one you brought up.  It can get additional Spellbook Magician searches, get around Ophion for a possible Temperance play, and in general help you run over something with Power with more ease.  Just a theory of what the card can bring.  It might be worth a one-of.

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Mr Cook    473
Also having trouble with what to play after the "Staple 8" monsters in the World build.
 
I've tested multiple stuff like Breakers, Kycoos, Justice+Priestess, and I'm currently running the Stoic + Foolish engine, due to the fact that seeing Temperance more is always good.
 
Out of the above, Foolish + Stoic has been the best, but only marginally, and is far from perfect. Obviously drawing Foolish after Stoic is kinda horrible, its always going to be a -1 when this happens which is something which really goes against the deck. Although I guess you can always dump a World with Foolish and then search Life to get him on the field. Stoic has been pretty okay, even drawing it isn't all that bad, drawing it with a discard trap is great, but when you don't, its a Spellcaster for Master/Fate if you normal it, and you can always set it as a chump blocker, which are both viable options if you don't open with a Spellbook Magician play. 
 
Also to note, since you will be most likely using Foolish to dump Stoic or World, it conflicting with Crescent is very rarely an issue, as you can always hold the Foolish until the turn after (taking the slight gamble of drawing Stoic) - as you will never really need the Temperance T1/T2 anyway.
 
I'm considering maybe even dropping the Foolish, and just playing the 1 Stoic, to see if that would still be as effective.
 
This is because I feel this deck pretty much has to draw Temperance to win a lot of our games, and aside from Stoic, Temp is pretty much unsearchable, and its perfectly feasible to go through a lot of your deck and not see a Temperance, which can really set you back. I'm aware this deck can search out the Spellbooks, and then have a good chance of drawing Temperance with our double-draws from Tower, but in a lot of matchups, we won't have continuous access to Tower, and if you do, you should be winning anyway.
 
 That's why I feel relying on drawing 1 of your 3 Temperance isn't the best strategy, and I would like to find something which can fill this void, whether it be an alternate win condition in the form of Justice+Priestess, or something which can help us see Temperance faster. 
 
I like Kycoo in the deck post-side against the appropriate matches, but I don't like it enough to be running in the main deck, where effectively it just acts as a Spellcatser on a bigger body, and Kycoo Beat won't work nearly as effectively this format.
 
In my opion, Tsuk is interesting, and has a few niche plays, but I really don't think its what this deck needs. If the only things going for it over things like Breaker/Kycoo is that it can put Ophion face down, and it can flip Spellbook Magician face down, then side it for Evilswarm. Very rarely will the Tsuk/Blue Boy play be relevant, and the fact Tsuk is only 1100 makes it as bad as Temperance in regards to Powering over things, at least Breaker/Kycoo can run over some boss monsters. Also, Tsuk returns to the hand in the EP, which takes a Spellcaster off the field for things like Fate on your opponent's turn. I'd much rather have a Breaker which can act as a 1900 beater, or an MST, or a Kycoo which is bigger than Tsuk, and is relevant against things like the Mirror, and Bujins, which will be more prominent than the Evilswarm matchup.
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Keitzo    33

2 Stoic, 4 discard traps and Foolish is really all you need. If I was going to play any additional monsters other than 2 Stoic, 2 World, 3 Magician, 3 Temperance then it would be a one off Breaker or Priestess rather than using Kycoo or Veiler but so far I've not found any additional monsters necessary. Breaker's are sided because they do horrible things to Evilswarm and other slow decks trying to abuse Mistake or DNA Surgery vs you. Really happy with that monster line-up, the only thing I'm debating on in the deck are 3 Reckless vs 3rd Mst, Book of Moon and a trap (this last spot without the reckless is really up in the air for me, currently a teched trap hole which is okay but not ideal.) 

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falolipe    72

Like I said on my previous post stoic has worked the best for me too, but I only play 1 stoic and foolish

 

The thing with stoic is when you draw world (28% in your fist 6) you have 5-6 cards for the second world and after you resolve world you have too many dead cards in your hand/deck. You may think resolving world will win you the game anyway but when you started slow with world in hand and don't have 4 different spellbooks to reveal, or you don't have secrets, or you drew a combination of 3 of world + temperance-stoic-foolish, or world gets banished with bottomless/fate, and other cases, that may not be the case (not that easy at least). While I DO wanna get temperance asap I don't wanna mess with other aspects of consistency of the deck.

 

But that may be just my personal experience with 2 stoic, if you don't know what I'm talking about I ask you why don't you run 3 stoics? well thats the reason I don't like 2

 

(leaving alone drawing stoic before foolish as an argument, because you can send world instead of the second stoic and win from there anyway)

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»victor    6399

 
Also having trouble with what to play after the "Staple 8" monsters in the World build.
 
I've tested multiple stuff like Breakers, Kycoos, Justice+Priestess, and I'm currently running the Stoic + Foolish engine, due to the fact that seeing Temperance more is always good.
 
Out of the above, Foolish + Stoic has been the best, but only marginally, and is far from perfect. Obviously drawing Foolish after Stoic is kinda horrible, its always going to be a -1 when this happens which is something which really goes against the deck. Although I guess you can always dump a World with Foolish and then search Life to get him on the field. Stoic has been pretty okay, even drawing it isn't all that bad, drawing it with a discard trap is great, but when you don't, its a Spellcaster for Master/Fate if you normal it, and you can always set it as a chump blocker, which are both viable options if you don't open with a Spellbook Magician play. 
 
Also to note, since you will be most likely using Foolish to dump Stoic or World, it conflicting with Crescent is very rarely an issue, as you can always hold the Foolish until the turn after (taking the slight gamble of drawing Stoic) - as you will never really need the Temperance T1/T2 anyway.
 
I'm considering maybe even dropping the Foolish, and just playing the 1 Stoic, to see if that would still be as effective.
 
This is because I feel this deck pretty much has to draw Temperance to win a lot of our games, and aside from Stoic, Temp is pretty much unsearchable, and its perfectly feasible to go through a lot of your deck and not see a Temperance, which can really set you back. I'm aware this deck can search out the Spellbooks, and then have a good chance of drawing Temperance with our double-draws from Tower, but in a lot of matchups, we won't have continuous access to Tower, and if you do, you should be winning anyway.
 
 That's why I feel relying on drawing 1 of your 3 Temperance isn't the best strategy, and I would like to find something which can fill this void, whether it be an alternate win condition in the form of Justice+Priestess, or something which can help us see Temperance faster. 
 
I like Kycoo in the deck post-side against the appropriate matches, but I don't like it enough to be running in the main deck, where effectively it just acts as a Spellcatser on a bigger body, and Kycoo Beat won't work nearly as effectively this format.
 
In my opion, Tsuk is interesting, and has a few niche plays, but I really don't think its what this deck needs. If the only things going for it over things like Breaker/Kycoo is that it can put Ophion face down, and it can flip Spellbook Magician face down, then side it for Evilswarm. Very rarely will the Tsuk/Blue Boy play be relevant, and the fact Tsuk is only 1100 makes it as bad as Temperance in regards to Powering over things, at least Breaker/Kycoo can run over some boss monsters. Also, Tsuk returns to the hand in the EP, which takes a Spellcaster off the field for things like Fate on your opponent's turn. I'd much rather have a Breaker which can act as a 1900 beater, or an MST, or a Kycoo which is bigger than Tsuk, and is relevant against things like the Mirror, and Bujins, which will be more prominent than the Evilswarm matchup.
 


Giant Rat is another option if you really want to see Temperance fast.

The fact that it can also search Injection Fairy Lily is good as well.

Also, this is never really going to come up, but Giant Rat and Temperance both work under Skill Drain.

-----------

A good Spellcaster a lot of you guys haven't mentioned is Fool of Prophecy, only if you focus on Master.

It dumps Secrets and Crescent to copy with Master, it has 1600 ATK (Power over Ophion), stays on the field for Tower/Fate, you can use the Mastered Spellbook immediately, etc.

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Samuel Pedigo    2203

Like I said on my previous post stoic has worked the best for me too, but I only play 1 stoic and foolish

 

The thing with stoic is when you draw world (28% in your fist 6) you have 5-6 cards for the second world and after you resolve world you have too many dead cards in your hand/deck. You may think resolving world will win you the game anyway but when you started slow with world in hand and don't have 4 different spellbooks to reveal, or you don't have secrets, or you drew a combination of 3 of world + temperance-stoic-foolish, or world gets banished with bottomless/fate, and other cases, that may not be the case (not that easy at least). While I DO wanna get temperance asap I don't wanna mess with other aspects of consistency of the deck.

 

But that may be just my personal experience with 2 stoic, if you don't know what I'm talking about I ask you why don't you run 3 stoics? well thats the reason I don't like 2

 

(leaving alone drawing stoic before foolish as an argument, because you can send world instead of the second stoic and win from there anyway)

 

Even if there aren't any targets, Temperance itself still has uses. If you have Magican and Stoic in grave (which is pretty likely in this scenario), Life becomes a Level 3 monster that you can use to overlay for a Rank 3 xyz with Temperance. That'll be especially useful when Downerd Magician comes out since you'll be able to the overlay that Rank 3 into a 2,700 spellcaster that has piercing.

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MrMcThrasher    1274

Like I said on my previous post stoic has worked the best for me too, but I only play 1 stoic and foolish

 

The thing with stoic is when you draw world (28% in your fist 6) you have 5-6 cards for the second world and after you resolve world you have too many dead cards in your hand/deck. You may think resolving world will win you the game anyway but when you started slow with world in hand and don't have 4 different spellbooks to reveal, or you don't have secrets, or you drew a combination of 3 of world + temperance-stoic-foolish, or world gets banished with bottomless/fate, and other cases, that may not be the case (not that easy at least). While I DO wanna get temperance asap I don't wanna mess with other aspects of consistency of the deck.

 

But that may be just my personal experience with 2 stoic, if you don't know what I'm talking about I ask you why don't you run 3 stoics? well thats the reason I don't like 2

 

(leaving alone drawing stoic before foolish as an argument, because you can send world instead of the second stoic and win from there anyway)

 

Even if there aren't any targets, Temperance itself still has uses. If you have Magican and Stoic in grave (which is pretty likely in this scenario), Life becomes a Level 3 monster that you can use to overlay for a Rank 3 xyz with Temperance. That'll be especially useful when Downerd Magician comes out since you'll be able to the overlay that Rank 3 into a 2,700 spellcaster that has piercing.

Downerd is legit overall.  It makes the best use of those Spellbook Magicians that you are usually overlaying into either Gachi, Daigusto, or Elf.

 

I tried the Stoic engine and, when it goes off, it's fun.  However, when you draw into hands involving both Stoic and World, it's hard to prioritize which card to get rid of first via discard, and drawing or using Stoic after getting off two Temperance is just bad since its stats suck and the searching becomes pointless.

 

I'm going to continue to use Kycoo since he has practical applications for the deck against the possible meta overall.  If I stop seeing Bujin, Dragons (heh), and other Prophecy builds, I'll stop maining him.

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DarthChocoboz    292

I tried the Stoic engine and, when it goes off, it's fun.  However, when you draw into hands involving both Stoic and World, it's hard to prioritize which card to get rid of first via discard, and drawing or using Stoic after getting off two Temperance is just bad since its stats suck and the searching becomes pointless.


I thought we established the point of running 2 world was so when you drew the first you could use the second and if you're losing after resolving 2 temperances then you really should have a look at how you're playing

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MrMcThrasher    1274
Dead draws are still dead draws. I'm not entirely sure how the rest of your statement falls into what I said though. In the mean time I'll be content with Kycoo's performance.

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»Pharaoh Atem    15784

I on occasion see people try Fiendish in this.

I also on occasion see them get their Temperances veilered while they have live Fiendishes set.

It's infurating, and here's why:

Veiler can't apply to a monster whose effects are already being negated, hm?

"My effects are negated" is a specific way to affect a card, and that way of affecting a card cannot be performed on a card that is already afflicted with that ailment.

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»Pharaoh Atem    15784

My local is strange like that sometimes.

Point is, do you catch why I'm saying that stuff in this thread?

 

There's a play in there which I think you should all keep handy, if you're pushed to Fiendish use.

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»Paraliel    8037

My local is strange like that sometimes.

Point is, do you catch why I'm saying that stuff in this thread?

 

There's a play in there which I think you should all keep handy, if you're pushed to Fiendish use.

My lord. Fiendish is a lot better than I gave it credit for.

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Squiddy    9173
so that old rabbit ruling were u chain fiendish to there veiler is legit now? i thot they reversed it O____O

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~Joenen~    3

Last I heard of the thing was that ygorg article.  So I don't think it was reversed. 

 

You can't negate something that's already being negated so, yeah.  Thanks for the reminder Atem. 

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Valakut    29
It's same with skill drain there's some ruling on wikia bout veiler can't resolve if the monster is negated already

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DarthChocoboz    292

I'm still pretty sure divine wrath is infinitely better then fiendish chain. I'm also positive i'm going to get divine wrath'd more then veilered.

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Fizzy    77

Divine wrath may be better than fiendish in spellbooks but not every deck can support wrath due to not having good discards. Veiler however can be mained in like every deck(except infernity and dw) and is a pretty good card right now imo. I'm playing both veiler and fiendish in almost everything atm except books and harpies where I have 2 wrath.

 

Fiendish dodging veiler on temperance is pretty cool but since spellbooks can play wrath I think it's still better than fiendish in this deck

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»Pharaoh Atem    15784

so that old rabbit ruling were u chain fiendish to there veiler is legit now? i thot they reversed it O____O

 

always was

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Vert!    11
I won a box tourny today with this deck using 2 world 2 stoic, foolish and 4 discard traps and 0 priestess.

Only resolved stoic/foolish twice. Stoic was good overall. Did exactly what it was meant to. This deck relies on world so getting temperance quick seems like the best plan since the meta is still so open. I did wish I played another discard trap but couldn't think of something to cut


I played against
Evilswarm
2 Bujin
FireKing
2 Dragon plants
Zombies (the hardest match. Felt like I never had enough traps to stop their plays)
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G Λ r Ω N    5934
Won a box tournament today, I wanted to give Stoics a go, but fucking no one had any, of all the cards I own, couldn't find any SoRL and Stoics, so I sided a 2nd Wisdom and went with Kycoo in and Cs in the main

Rd 1 - Zombies
Rd 2 - Bujin
Rd 3 - Madolche
Rd 4 - Mermail
Rd 5 - Spellbooks
Top 8 - Bujin
Top 4 - Bujin
Finals - Bujin

Lost an overwhelming amount of game 1s to opening Maxx Cs for obvious reasons, I kinda wanna use a 2nd Wisdom now, drew World an unhealthy amount, but Armored Kappa got me there like twice, that card is pretty nifty, Kycoo wasn't bad either, side was pretty on point too, except Needle Ceiling didn't use that at all, but don't wanna base it off of 8 rds either.

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