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Fire Fist - Discussion

Fire Formation - Gyokkou  

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  1. 1. Do you use 2 or more Fire Formation - Gyokkou in your main?



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Hisoka    53

@SANBUU  Thunder King was meh and Transmigration was filler in the first place (I did piss of 2 mermail players with it though), I would probably replace them with 2 Debunk

 

@Hisoka  I'm cosidering Hole instead of book but thats a minor change. Regarding lance, I feel they are currently uneeded in regular 4level because the only traps it is usefull is against bth, tt & fiendish (if you lance a dprison or MF your monster usaly dies to theirs anyway)

 

chimpact pretty much explained my thought process for dust tornado.

yeah I've been siding Compulsory and Book of moon out frequently…So I can understand cutting book. Book works so well with gorilla though, but there are always better cards to play. Thanks for your explanation and Congrats on your top. 

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Hisoka    53

So just FYI guys, Fire Kings got 2nd place in a 140 man tournament:

 

decklisten011.jpg

 

Fire Fist (regardless of Axis) were not in Top 4.

 

Note that everybody is siding Overworked, Skill Drain, etc. and Fire Kings are largely immune to it.

 

All decklists here:

 

http://www.yugioh-forum.com/2013/12/die-decklisten-der-top16/

Fire Kings aren't really a threat and you can't base a format off a 140 man tourney. But thanks for sharing, any information is always insightful 

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chimpact    37

I'm really tired of hearing about how fire kings are immune to side cards. Really? They dont get hurt by overworked or skill drain. cool.

 

I guess soul drain, dfissure, debunk, dd crow, macro cosmos, abyss dweller aren't cards anymore. 

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the only real cards u listed in your side are dfissure/drain and potentially dd crow, how u can justify siding debunk at all this format baffles me.

 

dweller is like, the main issue for the deck but you need to protect your dweller too and the deck runs a bunch of mons which just run over it without giving a fuck (circle is too real when it comes to dealing with dweller). cardinal breaking their setup can be big too.

 

 

the main card everyone seems to be overlooking when they see fire kings is rekindling, that card is fucking absurd

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brian.inc    266

I'm really tired of hearing about how fire kings are immune to side cards. Really? They dont get hurt by overworked or skill drain. cool.
 
I guess soul drain, dfissure, debunk, dd crow, macro cosmos, abyss dweller aren't cards anymore. 


I think he might've meant immune to cards typically sided against fire fists. Out of the cards you listed, maybe only macro plays a role in stopping the traditional 4-axis builds.

It might not be a terrible idea to side/tech a mini fire king engine in decks that already main onslaughts. Although I'm kinda hard pressed to see what kinda matchups that would help in.

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kidrock    233

For those of you running/testing the "control" fire fist build (just the 3 bear 1 gorilla 3 cardcar etc) I recommend testing atleast 1 dragon and possibly 2. ive been using 2 and have found it really good (I don't run any of the traps) I just run it for it being the potential 4th and 5th coach with how much you leave 2 spells on the field. Obviously its good as just a coach wolfbark but also in situations where they have an open board summon dragon special bear and get another tenki and its a really easy way to get to a Cardinal because unlike Coach its an instant Cardinal

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Mixbreed55    9
I went undefeated today at locals and it was about. 25 person turnout it's small but I jus wanted to test the deck.I played the mixed axis version and have gotten great results.
I played:
3 leopard
3 rooster might cut it
1 spirit
3 bear
2 dragon
2 wolfbark
1 blaster

3 tenki
3 tensu
3 gyoko worked great
2 rekindling fine at 2
2 mst
1 foolish
1 book of moon

2 fiendish
2 mirror force
2 tensen
1 compulse
1 bottomless
1 warning
1 seven tools might bump it to 2
1 divine wrath might cut it

2 horse prince
2 Vulcan
1 tiger king
1 cardinal
1 dweller
1 cowboy
1 Daigusto emeral
1 lavalval chain
1 Bujin kagutsuchi
2 lion emperor
1 leviair
1 m7
I played
Infernities, constellars, harpies and grave keepers
Let me know what you guys think.

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Lee Hale    166

Fire Kings are sounding better and better. I think I'm gonna try them out.

I'll post my build soon.

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Hisoka    53

the only real cards u listed in your side are dfissure/drain and potentially dd crow, how u can justify siding debunk at all this format baffles me.

 

dweller is like, the main issue for the deck but you need to protect your dweller too and the deck runs a bunch of mons which just run over it without giving a fuck (circle is too real when it comes to dealing with dweller). cardinal breaking their setup can be big too.

 

 

the main card everyone seems to be overlooking when they see fire kings is rekindling, that card is fucking absurd

Mermails have hype behind them. Debunk eats mermails

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Valakut    29
I played in a win a box yesterday with dual axis I got top 8 with a 4-1 record I lost to laval in rounds and harpies in top 8 I can't figure out anything to side against them but the selection is really good side card for mirror and bujin, won me couple of games. Now I'm feeling dual still good but I might be going toward more 3 now rekindling just seems to be too good of a card. I rather top deck a rekindling or tenki other than a tenki or random cards.
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Valakut    29
1 ff spirit
1 ff leopard
2 ff rooster
3 ff bear
3 ff dragon
3 wolfbark
1 ff gorilla
1 ff boar
1 ff swallow
3 effect veiler

3 ff tenki
2 ff tensu
1 ff gyokou
3 mst
2 lance

2 ff tensen
1 ff tenken
1 warning
2 divine wrath
1 bottomless
1 torrential
2 mirror force

2 ff horse
1 vulcan
1 kirin
1 crimson blader
2 ff tiger king
2 ff cardinal
1 dire wolf
1 bujintei kagutsuchi
1 cowboy
1 dweller
1 crazy box
1 lion emperor


2 maxx c
2 dust tornado
1 soul drain
2 mistake
2 rivalry
2 light mirror
2 mind crush
2 the selection

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»victor    6400

I'm really tired of hearing about how fire kings are immune to side cards. Really? They dont get hurt by overworked or skill drain. cool.

 

I guess soul drain, dfissure, debunk, dd crow, macro cosmos, abyss dweller aren't cards anymore. 

 

One more thing I should mention is that Evilswarm Exciton Knight which scares the living daylight out of a lot of decks, is much less effective against Fire Kings because they float against destruction.

 

Also, Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, Dark Hole, those cards you want to play again now that past format's floaters, Dragon Rulers and Dracossack, are less common are also ineffective against Fire Kings. So the cards you need to clear a Karakuri Geargia, Mermail, or Hieratic field feed right into this deck's entire premise. Do you realize that? 

 

So you want to play DPrison, Compulsory, Bottomless, etc., well that deck has searchable 2-3 Circle and 2-3 Lance on top of 3 MST, or even Generation Shift, good luck with that. 

 

I mean they really are a paradigm shift in the sense that the removal you would traditionally play for the generic meta is really awkward against Fire Kings. Even the Fire King deck's backrow, might be COTH, Generation Shift, Safe Zone, etc. so the 3 MST destruction is also in their favor.

 

On top of that, you have something I have referred to in past posts as the Bear-Garunix paradox.

 

1) Opponents keep the field sparse of monsters (opponent won't commit to the field because of Garunix) and that magnifies the impact of Fire Fist Bear (destroy a single monster, attack directly for search effect)

 

2) Onslaught or Bear - what do you negate or counter? If you stop one, but not the other, you lose your monster either way.

 

------------------------

 

Soul Drain, DFissure, and Macro are all at 1 now. We still have 3 Imperial Iron Wall to side in, 3 MST, Dust Tornado, Fairy Wind list goes on. 

 

You don't have very many floodgates left and this deck actually has counter-floodgates (IIW). DDR on Garunix is actually a legitimate option, given that you play Blaster as well.

 

And unlike Dragon Rulers, this deck plays LV 4 so you can always Tensu into Diamond Dire Wolf to pop the floodgate, and dump 2 200 DEF monsters into grave for Rekindling.

 

--------------------

 

Bujintei Kagutsuchi is what made Rekindling consistent (Card Trooper mill 5 + Maestroke), and this deck didn't have that before. Onslaught Garunix + Wolfbark into Kagutsuchi (survives Garunix destruction), think about it. What if you next revive Blaster or play Rekindling on top of that?

 

I mean I could go on about how the deck can side Skill Drain, IIW, Gozen Match, etc.

 

One thing to note, Kurenai is very deadly.

 

5400 with Garunix or 5600 with Blaster is crazy, it ends games, and it's not at all hard to do. 2500 damage is so easy to come by other sources (Bujintei on up).

 

------

 

And let's not forget the aggravation of Swift Scarecrow, Waboku, Roar, Magic Cylinder, followed by field wipe.

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Steve Wainman    1351

I'm really having trouble filling up my side deck in 3.5 axis at the minute, I mean I've tested it so much and every side card that is niche in some way is really shitty. Can someone give advice on non standard side cards in 3.5 axis?

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Valakut    29
http://youtu.be/r7D3zVpfzgs

Idk if this list posted on here yet but it got 5th at a regionals and seems ok but I was wondering why wouldn't he run fire formation traps cause wouldn't that be the only thing good to get with rooster cause it seems it barely has any to no protection at all.

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oliver?    690

I played in a win a box yesterday with dual axis I got top 8 with a 4-1 record I lost to laval in rounds and harpies in top 8 I can't figure out anything to side against them but the selection is really good side card for mirror and bujin, won me couple of games. Now I'm feeling dual still good but I might be going toward more 3 now rekindling just seems to be too good of a card. I rather top deck a rekindling or tenki other than a tenki or random cards.

Yeah I'm having trouble with Harpies as well, the only thing I can think of to side is Dust Tornado on top of MSTs to hit Hunting Ground, other than that it's the perfect counter for this deck

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»Barron    7988

http://youtu.be/r7D3zVpfzgs

Idk if this list posted on here yet but it got 5th at a regionals and seems ok but I was wondering why wouldn't he run fire formation traps cause wouldn't that be the only thing good to get with rooster cause it seems it barely has any to no protection at all.

i played this deck on DN last night. You don't know how many rages i got from mained Mistake and TKR. I don't like a couple of choices in the side/extra so i altered it a bit. 

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Indignation    2858

Well there was another fire king and 4 more fire fists that top 8 montreal 160+ person regionals. This is the Fire Fist thread but can we discuss fire king variants in here too if they start topping even more? Anyway it seems fire fists are looking like the deck to beat at the moment for this short format.

Sorry they didnt take good pictures of the decklists. dunno what the monster count was but if hes running 3x trade-in he must have 3 barbaros and 2-3 garunix?

1510512_364843213653029_344948399_n.jpg

 

The other lists here.

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RobertM    86

That list is fucking ass.  I get that he's running skill drain but not even a single copy of bear?  3 copies of trade-in for 3 non-searchable targets and 2-3 targets that come straight from your deck?  2 Tenki? 2 Duality?  D-Prison but no Bottomless?  Ugh.  Also no Rekindling what.

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EnigmaMemory    83

For dual-axis, is the tested amount something like 1:2:2 for Spirit, Rooster, and Leopard? I see 1:1:2 on the front, but I'll like some thoughts on the matter.

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Steve Wainman    1351
Man this this thread use to be good :/
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