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[NEEDS UPDATE] Geargia - Discussion

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Candela    546

I haven't really kept up with this thread this format so I'm not really sure if this has been covered yet or not:

300px-BurstRebirth-SHSP-EN-R-1E.png


This card seems incredibly good in the Fist match-up. It advances your win condition while simultaneously stopping theirs. Having both this card and Geargiarsenal is just insane. 

there was a brief discussion in "single cards" section

Cost is high and it needs certain setup, a dead armor etc

Ca of the haunted is just better at the moment (especially in tuner builds)

2000 LP is nothing if it means it cuts your opponent off from its Bear searches. This card is way more applicable against Fire Fist than call simply because you can summon Armor in fd defense as opposed to attack mode. 

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mercurial `    222

okay, so if you are gonna try Burst rebirth, then why not use Skill prisoner instead? 

 

300px-SkillPrisoner-LVAL-EN-SR-1E.png

 

Target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activationnegate that effect. During either player's turn, except the turn this card was sent to the Graveyard: You can banish this card from your Graveyard, then target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activation, negate that effect.

 

So, its basically another fiendish/veiler in the fact that it cuts off monster effects. I feel as though its definitely better than Burst rebirth for the fact that you dont lose the card, you can chain it to both bear and marksman, as well as protect valuable backrow from gorilla/marksman pops as well. You even have the added utility of using it to dodge veiler on your turn if you protected a card on your opponent's turn. So, unless I dont understand how this card works, I think that it is vastly superior to burst rebirth in almost every regard, at least, in fulfilling the use that you are trying to use burst rebirth for. 

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Candela    546

okay, so if you are gonna try Burst rebirth, then why not use Skill prisoner instead? 

 

300px-SkillPrisoner-LVAL-EN-SR-1E.png

 

Target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activationnegate that effect. During either player's turn, except the turn this card was sent to the Graveyard: You can banish this card from your Graveyard, then target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activation, negate that effect.

 

So, its basically another fiendish/veiler in the fact that it cuts off monster effects. I feel as though its definitely better than Burst rebirth for the fact that you dont lose the card, you can chain it to both bear and marksman, as well as protect valuable backrow from gorilla/marksman pops as well. You even have the added utility of using it to dodge veiler on your turn if you protected a card on your opponent's turn. So, unless I dont understand how this card works, I think that it is vastly superior to burst rebirth in almost every regard, at least, in fulfilling the use that you are trying to use burst rebirth for. 

wait what? these two cards serve very different roles...what if they just outright summon a bigger monster and kill my armor? burst rebirth guarantees a set armor on my side of the field by my main phase provided I can pay the cost, this card doesn't. 

 

that said I do think skill prisoner has some niche uses, but I'd rather have a card that guarantees an armor provided that it isn't negated as opposed to a card with some more utility that can't give me the same guarantee in a deck like geargia.

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mercurial `    222

okay, so if you are gonna try Burst rebirth, then why not use Skill prisoner instead? 

 

300px-SkillPrisoner-LVAL-EN-SR-1E.png

 

Target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activationnegate that effect. During either player's turn, except the turn this card was sent to the Graveyard: You can banish this card from your Graveyard, then target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activation, negate that effect.

 

So, its basically another fiendish/veiler in the fact that it cuts off monster effects. I feel as though its definitely better than Burst rebirth for the fact that you dont lose the card, you can chain it to both bear and marksman, as well as protect valuable backrow from gorilla/marksman pops as well. You even have the added utility of using it to dodge veiler on your turn if you protected a card on your opponent's turn. So, unless I dont understand how this card works, I think that it is vastly superior to burst rebirth in almost every regard, at least, in fulfilling the use that you are trying to use burst rebirth for. 

wait what? these two cards serve very different roles...what if they just outright summon a bigger monster and kill my armor? burst rebirth guarantees a set armor on my side of the field by my main phase provided I can pay the cost, this card doesn't. 

 

that said I do think skill prisoner has some niche uses, but I'd rather have a card that guarantees an armor provided that it isn't negated as opposed to a card with some more utility that can't give me the same guarantee in a deck like geargia.

okay so like, at that point, isnt call strictly better? for what you posted, when they pop it bear/marksman, skill prisoner is strictly better. So I really feel as though the fact that they 'summon a bigger monster' is a terrible argument for burst Rebirth because if they are just gonna run over your armor, then you get to search a card, then you special it back with call. I fail to see how Burst Rebirth is better than call or skill prisoner. 

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Candela    546

 

okay, so if you are gonna try Burst rebirth, then why not use Skill prisoner instead? 

 

300px-SkillPrisoner-LVAL-EN-SR-1E.png

 

Target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activationnegate that effect. During either player's turn, except the turn this card was sent to the Graveyard: You can banish this card from your Graveyard, then target 1 card you control; this turn, when any monster effect resolves that targeted that card at activation, negate that effect.

 

So, its basically another fiendish/veiler in the fact that it cuts off monster effects. I feel as though its definitely better than Burst rebirth for the fact that you dont lose the card, you can chain it to both bear and marksman, as well as protect valuable backrow from gorilla/marksman pops as well. You even have the added utility of using it to dodge veiler on your turn if you protected a card on your opponent's turn. So, unless I dont understand how this card works, I think that it is vastly superior to burst rebirth in almost every regard, at least, in fulfilling the use that you are trying to use burst rebirth for. 

wait what? these two cards serve very different roles...what if they just outright summon a bigger monster and kill my armor? burst rebirth guarantees a set armor on my side of the field by my main phase provided I can pay the cost, this card doesn't. 

 

that said I do think skill prisoner has some niche uses, but I'd rather have a card that guarantees an armor provided that it isn't negated as opposed to a card with some more utility that can't give me the same guarantee in a deck like geargia.

okay so like, at that point, isnt call strictly better? for what you posted, when they pop it bear/marksman, skill prisoner is strictly better. So I really feel as though the fact that they 'summon a bigger monster' is a terrible argument for burst Rebirth because if they are just gonna run over your armor, then you get to search a card, then you special it back with call. I fail to see how Burst Rebirth is better than call or skill prisoner. 

if my opponent pops my facedown armor with Bear, am I going to want to have call or rebirth? would it not be better to summon an armor in facedown defense position that can't be attacked over by a bear or would it be better to summon an armor in attack mode? would a card that is resistant to mst be better than a card that isn't? resistant to gorilla? resistant to marksman? would having an armor facedown on my side of the field during my turn be better than having one in attack that can't fulfill otk requirements in the 4 tuner build? 

 

I think some of you guys are underestimating how much of a difference there is between having a face-up armor on your side of the field as opposed to a face down one during your turn.

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mercurial `    222

If my opponent goes to pop my armor with bear, i would rather have skill prisoner! 

 

Like, if I have to pick between skill prisoner and burst rebirth, I would rather have skill prisoner. and now I have a set armor that a) cannot be destroyed by monster effects that target it aka bear, and b) cannot be run over by bear!

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Candela    546

If my opponent goes to pop my armor with bear, i would rather have skill prisoner! 

you ask me why it's better than call and now you go back to skill prisoner. obviously you don't understand the point I'm trying to get across.

 

limit rebirth is better than call and skill prisoner in a general sense. in a very limited sense, skill prisoner can be better in certain scenarios, but not enough for me to warrant playing it over rebirth. call is just outright worse except in situations where you need a tuner. 

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mercurial `    222

Like, you do realize that when i protect it with skill prisoner, I just flip it up on my turn, and get my search, right? I dont think you understand the fact that skill prisoner has more applications than just protecting armor right. so like, you can use it to protect your backrows from gorillas and marksmans, you can use it to protect your stardust from Silent honor, you can use it TWICE! During either player's turn! You can ensure that your play goes off by using it to protect from veiler. I think that you are locked into this single minded approach and can only see how the card interacts in one aspect of the deck. because Burst rebirth literally has ONLY ONE APPLICATION. It basically says, ' Pay 2000 LP. Special Summon Armor in FD defense Position to your side of the field. ' Whereas Skill prisoner has more than one use. As does call. So i dont know if you quite understand the use of certain cards, or why these cards are better than say, burst rebirth. 

 

To add on I dont see how you can say that the card that you are referring to, limit rebirth or Burst rebirth, whatever it is, is better in a general sense, when it LITERALLY HAS ONE APPLICATION. Yes, it may perform that application better than the other two cards in question, but isnt it better to use more versatile, optimal, flexible cards that you can use at pretty much any point in the game rather than a card that has one specific application, and is only good if it can fulfil that one specific application? 

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TcHa    132
Burst rebirth is interesting especially because you can chain it to removal. The ability to regain field presence while blocking an attack also is a valid benefit.

For similar reasons I have been testing pinpoint guard lately and the card does show some promise. Like rebirth it can't be mst'ed at activation but has the added bonus of stopping otks. In the end though I still feel call wins out because it has less restriction, less cost, and more utility than rebirth and pinpoint.

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Candela    546

Like, you do realize that when i protect it with skill prisoner, I just flip it up on my turn, and get my search, right? I dont think you understand the fact that skill prisoner has more applications than just protecting armor right. so like, you can use it to protect your backrows from gorillas and marksmans, you can use it to protect your stardust from Silent honor, you can use it TWICE! During either player's turn! You can ensure that your play goes off by using it to protect from veiler. I think that you are locked into this single minded approach and can only see how the card interacts in one aspect of the deck. because Burst rebirth literally has ONLY ONE APPLICATION. It basically says, ' Pay 2000 LP. Special Summon Armor in FD defense Position to your side of the field. ' Whereas Skill prisoner has more than one use. As does call. So i dont know if you quite understand the use of certain cards, or why these cards are better than say, burst rebirth. 

 

To add on I dont see how you can say that the card that you are referring to, limit rebirth or Burst rebirth, whatever it is, is better in a general sense, when it LITERALLY HAS ONE APPLICATION. Yes, it may perform that application better than the other two cards in question, but isnt it better to use more versatile, optimal, flexible cards that you can use at pretty much any point in the game rather than a card that has one specific application, and is only good if it can fulfil that one specific application? 

Wait...are you really trying to say that Skill Prisoner is more versatile and that you'll have more opportunities to use it than Burst Rebirth?

Are you seriously that thick? 

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mercurial `    222

I mean, your only argument is it nets me armor. Are you really that thick to tell me that it is good if you resolve it for any other use than to get back armor? 

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HiTsUgAy4    27

Call works for ALL the monsters, while Rebirth only to Armor.

Even if it doesn't stop Bear, Call is more generic, whereas Rebirth is too situational.

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Samuel Pedigo    2203

I just want to interject and say a couple of things: (1) I'm glad you all are actually considering builds beyond Karakuri vs. Machina and new techs, which should actually be stimulating discussion... and I mean it has but (2) you all are beginning to cross that line between a healthy discussion and a harmful debate.

 

New ideas are good even if it turns out that the card isn't. Let's talk through it with more level heads. Besides, even if you think a card is 40/60 that it might be good/bad, it's probably still worth at least trying (and I've tried way worse odds than that), even if it only takes a few games for it to become painstakingly obvious how bad it is. Also, I'm not sure why it has to be one versus the other. You've got 37 spots, right? Might there be advantages to using 1 CotH 1 Rebirth? etc etc. 

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Loukas Troll    136

Been trying a new idea lately.

 

One of the decks biggest problems is going 2nd, especially against decks that can pop armor like Fire and Water. This issue is even bigger when the opponent manages to put up a big field on their first turn.

 

One could say it's one of the deck's inherent problems (which sounds logical enough lol, duuuh you need to set armor) but looking at it, there are little nitpicks here and there we can abuse to make going 2nd a little bit easier.

 

So I tried to identify my top worst card going 2nd and try testing cards that would help me more when I went 2nd.

 

It didn't take me long to realize that card was 7 tools. It's absolutely horrible going 2nd alone, but it would lose me the game when I got my armor popped as well, making it obsolete, cause my opponent didn't even have to activate traps, cause I had no way of baiting them out anyway.

 

Now, for replacements. Ask vouk-wan, he'll tell you like 1 week ago I spent like 30 minutes of my life going on about how awful mirror force is. Well, I still don't think it's all that good really, but it has the interesting perk of giving youa chance at a comeback when going 2nd with the additional function of stopping Bear searches and Water pushes. After considering that, I decided to add 1 copy to my build. I'm already running double prison, which I consider the better card and I didn't want to go up to 4 battle traps and open 2+ against a deck that can make exciton.

 

And while Mirror is good and all, it still doesn't really help when I lose my armor except if my opponent loses a lot of resources and I have another armor, which I can't really expect happening against competent players.

 

So the question is, what is the best card to have when losing armor? Yeah, that's right, Call of the Haunted. So I decided to bump it up to 3 copies. Call has the amazing utility of allowing me to make plays without taking up my normal summon, which means I can push freely with a Called Armor and follow it up with another play to either deminish my opponent's resources, establish a huge field, go for game or come back from an established field & traps. So much utility in just 1 card, while seven tools serves max 2 of these purposes.

 

What I also noticed when playing 7tools is that I rarely even needed it when I went first. Fighting through backrow is definitely not one of this decks problems, especially when it's not paired up with field presence. So even when going first, Tools was just there to ensure victory.

 

With cards like Trap Stun and themed traps falling out of favor (Geargia becoming less popular, Rulers gone) all that's really left are real traps, which, as said, you'll usually won't have much trouble playing through. Not to mention I'm not completely cutting off 2 cards that help me against backrow, since I'm putting in Call, which helps in that purpose as well.

 

Need to note that I briefly considered Lance, TcHa really managed to make it sound intriguing, but I ultimately decided against it, since I still consider tools to be the better card, and I didn't even want that.

 

Before you guys mention it, I need to say I'm aware of the drawbacks Call bares. It is awful to open with without armor, it's awful to open with without protection from Exciton (although you can just not set it, it's an awkward decision to make when you don't know what you're up against) Thing is, Tools is equally bad in these scenarios, if not worse so I figured I'd rather have Call anyway.

 

This is what I've been testing, I'd appreciate some feedback on the build and on the 7tools matter.

 

ftcMIub.png

 

I'll probably remove Macro from the side, I don't like it paired with hand traps. I think I'm gonna test a single Skill Prisoner sided. 7th (and 8th, huhu) Chain/Veiler against Bear and with obvious unique utility against Water. I'm probably gonna be sticking to the 1 copy tho cause I already run 6 effect negation mained and I feel multiple copies will clog.

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+scuzzlebutt    23563

when i was playing around with this deck, i played burst rebirth, 3 seven tools, and a hope for escape (along with 3 upstart, obv). the latter was a cute idea that i never really got around to seriously testing, but the burst rebirths were pretty nice. call is still probably better, but it's definitely not "strictly better." mst beats call on the chain, rebirth is chainable without an accelerator in the grave (and actually leaves you with a monster), not to mention all of the different conceivable battle phase interactions (if theyre attacking with bear and you have just an armor in grave, you clearly want burst rebirth and not call, for instance). my intent was to play hope for escape as a sort of sphinxs revelation -- in late game scenarios where neither player has very many cards left, you flip it, draw some obscene number of cards, and gain insurmountable advantage. its my understanding that people are starting to shift away from this deck with the cyber dragon deck being newly legal, but for those who are staying on the deck, maybe this is something worth looking more into

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So went ahead and tested pure, which is actually pretty good! I love the way the deck can throw out those ggx plays along with playing the grind game really well. I still don't know if I prefer it over the 2 tuner build but it's becoming a close favorite of mine. Now my problem in 2 tuner was when you have the birdman sync play to make a rank 7 and rank 7/8 and you get your burei negated your just left their in a weird state. This is why I'm starting to favor the pure build. But the only downfall of pure is it lacks explosive plays.

 

I actually cut 7 tools too for lances which have actually been working amazingly. Now I've been trying skill prisoner alot in the main deck and I've played many fire fist and it's been throwing them off. But I do feel clogged at times with 2 veilers 3 fiendish 2 skill prisoner. So maybe they should be sided or just get better ratios. 

 

Has anyone tried testing pure too since TcHa posted about it?

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M.C.B.    172

I agree with you about tools when going second. But I don't agree with you not running it. You still need it to shut down Geargiagears in mirror and often Reckless Greed vs. Hoban Mermails. It is also GREAT to negate Warning (which decides MOST of the matches nowdays if successful) and other staples, saving you MST for continuous cards. 

 

On my own findings:

Been usin Alucard this week. It comes handy. Both it and Soul are necessary I think. Games with pure go to grind a lot. These two make a difference.

 

I am still not playing completely pure, still using Machina Fortress and Gearframe. Mostly because of Gearframe and the ability to OTK (and it happens more than you might think). 

 

I don't have any experience with Skill Prisoner. Is it actually any good? Mained? Sided? Who has given it serious testing?

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+Paraliel+    8035
If my opponent pops my armor and I use Call I am still getting a search. So running stuff like Burst Rebirth that doesn't have more uses like Call makes no sense.

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Loukas Troll    136

If my opponent pops my armor and I use Call I am still getting a search. So running stuff like Burst Rebirth that doesn't have more uses like Call makes no sense.

The theory behind it is that it's a better answer to the Bear pop cause it also prevents them from searching.

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+Paraliel+    8035
Except it's worse than Call in every other respect since Armor isn't what you are always bringing back.

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mercurial `    222

I don't have any experience with Skill Prisoner. Is it actually any good? Mained? Sided? Who has given it serious testing?

 

 

I have been maining 2 skill prisoner for the past week or so. I was playing 1-1 Main/Side prior to that, but with the increase play of mermail, and the proliferation of +1 Fire, I felt that it warrented getting a shot at 2 over mained black horn, and i have not looked back. As Ive said before, the applications are very real and numerous, and i havent really found another card that performs as well as it does. It just seems to be a card that I almost never don't want to see. The only time that I dont want it is if im forced into a grind game and im topping vs their topping. And at that point, its still not horrible in those situations, because to be perfectly honest, 9/10 times that i am forced into topdecking, I probably misplayed and should have won by that point. 

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+scuzzlebutt    23563

If my opponent pops my armor and I use Call I am still getting a search. So running stuff like Burst Rebirth that doesn't have more uses like Call makes no sense.

Except it's worse than Call in every other respect since Armor isn't what you are always bringing back.

if your opponent pops your armor and you use call, they are attacking into your 1100 armor and you are losing your armor and not getting a search and they are getting a fire formation. if your opponent pops your armor and you use burst rebirth you don't need a removal trap to protect it for that turn -- your opponent's turn just ends unless they commit more.

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Wunsen    229
[quote name="Stylo's Legacy" post="3692137" timestamp="1392584059"][quote name="TcHa" post="3692128" timestamp="1392583408"][center]Ip5hAJA.png[/center] [center] [/center] For the past couple of weeks or so I had been playing and testing the 2 tuner Geargia build with some great success and liked it a lot because it put more focus on GGX and Armor grinding and when you had the window to do so, you could search Birdman and combo off.    However, the last few days, I started really getting frustrated with a few things: 1) drawing watchdog, 2) drawing multiple Gianos, 3) drawing Watchdog and multiple Gianos, which incidentally happened to me for at least once for 3 matches in a row on DN. Also I found that when you combo’ed with Birdman to make the first Burei and its effect was negated, you were put in an awkward situation where you were stuck with a Watchdog in deck yet you didn’t really want to waste a GGX search on it to hard summon a Scrap or Stardust just to get the Watchdog in play. Yet I do realize it is not wise to use anecdotal samples like this to judge the viability of this build as the odds were very unlikely to happen, but it allowed me to explore other avenues.   So I decided to just cut the tuners altogether because it not only did it further reduce the chances of bad opening hands it further reduced the monster count and allowed me to play more traps. Also it allowed me to play more rank 3s for the MK-II plays which the late game tends to focus on.   So the theory behind why I feel Pure Geargia is better than the Karikuri Geargia version is similar to the comparison of 3.5 axis Fire to +1 Fire. The 3.5 version has a lot of combos that can generate an unfair amount of advantage but is more vulnerable to disruption and inconsistency. The +1 Fire just takes the foundation of the theme and what makes it good, then focused purely on that element and relies more on skillful resource management to win.   As a mini recap of my regionals, I started off the first 5 rounds undefeated and not losing a single game. The last 2 rounds which were against 4-axis Fire and Prophecy went to game 3s and were lost to savage topdecks which were unfortunate but it was when I did miss the ability to put game on board to finish off the game and not allow my opponent a chance to topdeck an out. Also 3 of the games in the last 2 rounds, I started to draw multiple Gianos with no Armor or Geargiagear.  So take what you want with that information but I still felt my success the first 5 rounds were based purely on not drawing awfully with the deck.   Here are some explanations for some of the questionable card choices:   Forbidden Lance: This was questionable card choice but I played it for a couple of reasons: First, I was worried that using a pure XYZ build would struggle with attacking over things especially in the rank 3 department. I did love how it complimented Soul of Silver Mountain and Alucard as it helped to push through multiple backrows. Secondly, and I felt most importantly, I found that to replace the synchro combo counter plays, the deck relied a lot on 101 and Exciton Knight to counter established boards and I wanted more protection to help resolve their effects. One could argue that Seven Tools could accomplish similar protection but could also stop Warnings. But I did not like that you could not play it the turn you draw it which gives your opponent another turn with an established board which could be too late for you.   Dust Tornado: Was mainly to help in the Fire matchup and it helped against main decked Skill Drains, Hunting Grounds, Tower, Kaiser, etc. However, at times I felt I was drawing too many backrow oriented cards and I may cut 1-2 for something else in the future.   Mirror Force: This card is just flat out amazing. I've stated this before in some earlier posts but playing field wiping cards is so good Geargias because it allows you to simplify the game state and also prevent/counter pressure boards Water and Fire can produce. It also has the ability to get rid of big monsters you Fiendish like Bureis, Tiger Kings, Krystia, Dark Armed Dragons, etc in addition to the actual attacking monster. You could argue that your opponent could just shift the Fiendished monsters to defense but that is just an inherent bonus of playing Mirror Force because it can force your opponent into playing awkwardly in your favor. [/quote]     Again good job. I really felt like you made some wise decision's going into your regional. You sided 3 black horn, could you see your self maining black horn at all? Also with those 2 dust tornados would you think about maybe taking them out for 7 tools? I know you said you didnt want 7 tools to draw into when you need some protection for a 101 or exciton play so you mained lances. But how would you feel maining those too?   Did your side deck work out like you were intending it to do?   As for the extra deck was their anything you felt like you wanted in there? Like say cowboy for burn damage, crazy box incase of skill drain?[/quote] Accidental neg sorry

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+Paraliel+    8035

If my opponent pops my armor and I use Call I am still getting a search. So running stuff like Burst Rebirth that doesn't have more uses like Call makes no sense.

>Except it's worse than Call in every other respect since Armor isn't what you are always bringing back.

if your opponent pops your armor and you use call, they are attacking into your 1100 armor and you are losing your armor and not getting a search and they are getting a fire formation. if your opponent pops your armor and you use burst rebirth you don't need a removal trap to protect it for that turn -- your opponent's turn just ends unless they commit more.

 

Um you use Call in the End Phase obviously...

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