Jump to content
Metal Gear Salad

Super Smash Bros Melee

Recommended Posts

im trying "westballz pressure" over dub shines with falco

Again, unless you're facing away, shine grab is nearly always better, especially when falco can shine grab and still react if they weren't shielding.

 

Westballlz style is a lot more consistent than regular multi shines though. Double shine wavedash down and repeat is a nice pattern to fall in to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
real? i can never combo off of grabs with falco very well so im generally trying to get thru with one of the shines->basic pillar if that makes sense. i know as fox your cg game is integral to most of your matchups but i havent gotten to the same pt with falco yet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Trying to get through' then puts it to your opponent. If they mess up, you win I guess. There's no reason you can't do both, but shine-grab puts the ball in your court. Ideal for when you've conditioned them enough to not act out of their shield. 

 

Watch some PPMD games. That's true efficiency with Falco. You don't have to be flashy and combo everything. Just throw them off stage and edgeguard.

 

Saying that, best way to combo from a grab is a platform tech chase. Uthrow to tech chase waveshine to bread and butter pillaring etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
word

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
was clear b4 now its extra clear xoxo. yeah that makes an alarming amount of sense

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

 

working on double shine grabs in the lab...shit is TOUGH


Flashy, but why? Single shine grab works just as well. Unless you're just spamming shines until you can react to shield or not.

 

shine grab stops working on competent players - double shine punishes the buffered roll and shine grab after the double shine punishes your opponent for hesitating on an option

it is actually really useful provided you can pull it off - tech monsters like KJH and Hax utilize it very well

like good lord: https://gfycat.com/FailingGiganticAltiplanochinchillamouse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ammit    5159

is there any advice to actually get the hang of wavedashing other than practicing with luigi a ton and then trying to move on to whatever your main is? i feel like it's a really simple concept to do but actually executing it's been really hard for me to get down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

is there any advice to actually get the hang of wavedashing other than practicing with luigi a ton and then trying to move on to whatever your main is? i feel like it's a really simple concept to do but actually executing it's been really hard for me to get down.

I know some guides direct people to jump and diagonally air dodge towards the stage progressively closer to the stage until you get a full wavedash; I'm not sure how useful that actually is though. Wavedashing is pretty simple once you have the muscle memory, many characters have different jump squat timings so Luigi may not necessarily be the best character to practice with. For instance Falco and Bowser (lol) have much different timings.

The biggest thing about wavedashing is actually being able to apply it in a meaningful way, something that is a lot harder to learn. Just out of curiosity, what ATs do you know how to do? Generally speaking I think wavedashing is one of the last elementary ATs you should learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ammit    5159

 

is there any advice to actually get the hang of wavedashing other than practicing with luigi a ton and then trying to move on to whatever your main is? i feel like it's a really simple concept to do but actually executing it's been really hard for me to get down.

I know some guides direct people to jump and diagonally air dodge towards the stage progressively closer to the stage until you get a full wavedash; I'm not sure how useful that actually is though. Wavedashing is pretty simple once you have the muscle memory, many characters have different jump squat timings so Luigi may not necessarily be the best character to practice with. For instance Falco and Bowser (lol) have much different timings.

The biggest thing about wavedashing is actually being able to apply it in a meaningful way, something that is a lot harder to learn. Just out of curiosity, what ATs do you know how to do? Generally speaking I think wavedashing is one of the last elementary ATs you should learn.

 

i have a pretty good handle on di and was practicing shffling with capt falcon a bit so far but that was also pretty difficult to get down. i have wobbling mostly down with ice climbers. is there other things i should be working on now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

 

 

is there any advice to actually get the hang of wavedashing other than practicing with luigi a ton and then trying to move on to whatever your main is? i feel like it's a really simple concept to do but actually executing it's been really hard for me to get down.

I know some guides direct people to jump and diagonally air dodge towards the stage progressively closer to the stage until you get a full wavedash; I'm not sure how useful that actually is though. Wavedashing is pretty simple once you have the muscle memory, many characters have different jump squat timings so Luigi may not necessarily be the best character to practice with. For instance Falco and Bowser (lol) have much different timings.

The biggest thing about wavedashing is actually being able to apply it in a meaningful way, something that is a lot harder to learn. Just out of curiosity, what ATs do you know how to do? Generally speaking I think wavedashing is one of the last elementary ATs you should learn.

 

i have a pretty good handle on di and was practicing shffling with capt falcon a bit so far but that was also pretty difficult to get down. i have wobbling mostly down with ice climbers. is there other things i should be working on now?

 

it's good that you understand DI; it's definitely not very intuitive and it was something I struggled with truly understanding when I first started

shffls are good to practice early on - more specifically L-cancelling as a tool doesn't require any application knowledge other than its execution so it is something you can mindlessly drill into your muscle memory

dash dancing is super important; arguably more important than wavedashing, especially in the neutral

if I had to rank the importance of these basic ATS, it would look like this

  1. DI
  2. Short Hop
  3. Fast Fall
  4. L-Cancel
  5. Dash Dance
  6. Wavedash

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ammit    5159

ok cool thanks. when practicing shffling i could get the short hop+attack down and the short hop+fast fall l cancel down fine but sticking the attack in between was where i had the most trouble. i know i need to work on short hopping more generally in actual match situations because i tend to hit the button harder than i'd like when in a match. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

ok cool thanks. when practicing shffling i could get the short hop+attack down and the short hop+fast fall l cancel down fine but sticking the attack in between was where i had the most trouble. i know i need to work on short hopping more generally in actual match situations because i tend to hit the button harder than i'd like when in a match. 

not sure what you mean in the second scenario since you can't l-cancel unless you stick out an aerial

one thing I do is to do an aerial at the height of my short hop (this is not necessarily always the best option, especially at higher levels for spacies but it is good guide post for just learning how to shffl) and then fast fall after the aerial comes out then l-cancel before I hit the ground

so basically the order goes like
 

  1. short hop
  2. aerial at apex of jump or falling part of jump
  3. immediately press down on the analog stick to fast fall after the aerial input
  4. immediately press L or R before touching the ground

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

don't learn wobbling lol.

 

most IC players learn to wobble then learn to play and they suck. they think cos they know an infinite it makes them good. but you need all of the fundamentals first.

 

learn fundamentals first. the best char to learn with is marth imo. amazing dash dance, teaches you to space, some combos, great wd oos. moves are laggy so you can see when you l cancel. fall speed is slow naturally so you have to fast fall. wavedash is actually useful even at beginner level (wd back/forward fsmash lol). so many reasons.

 

fuck luigi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
most importantly learn like everything the ics can do off a grab not just wobbling which isnt even always the best option. imo theyre the deepest and most underdeveloped character and even wobbles himself will tell you that reducing them to "do i wobble off the grab or not" will hinder your performance with them in the long run
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Logic    2033
Living in pgh I would totally argue that luigi is a better starter than marth. Haha.

Im about tappes out on sm4sh and about to go back to melee/3.5
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Logic    2033
Ic is not who you start with for sure. if theres a char that has more room for development its prolly yoshi or ic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
yeah yoshis got a long way to go too. ics ceiling is prob higher though (meta knight tier)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Logic    2033
As nooby as this sounds, I think an up B like brawl/sm4sh would push yoshi to marth/sheik tier auto.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that sounds very nooby.

 

yoshi has super armour on his double jump to compensate for his lack of up b. that along with parrying and his obscene weight makes him an absolute tank. he doesn't need anything else other than time imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

realistically time is only going to hurt yoshi in the long run

what yoshi needs isn't time for everyone to figure it out; yoshi needs a player with godlike reflexes to parry everything

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23472
no one "figures out" characters for good in melee despite what ppl like hax think

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Candela    546

no one "figures out" characters for good in melee despite what ppl like hax think

maybe so but amsa definitely brought a character that was relatively unexplored on the international stage to light and you can see how that has affected his results

if you compare how well he has done when he first started rising in the scene to his recent performances it is pretty clear that many top players have already adapted to Yoshi
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Logic    2033


no one "figures out" characters for good in melee despite what ppl like hax think

maybe so but amsa definitely brought a character that was relatively unexplored on the international stage to light and you can see how that has affected his results

if you compare how well he has done when he first started rising in the scene to his recent performances it is pretty clear that many top players have already adapted to Yoshi
 
This is fair, especially considering the number of times ive seen amsa die off the top to a falco shine.

Which to my understading, is more vulnerable to that than anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ammit    5159

i mean obviously knowing how to wobble is important with ics which is partly something i wanted to learn to do, but i also realize that learning what they can do besides wobbling, and also being able to do well as sopo is also important to playing ics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×