Jazz

May 2002 - Yugi vs Kaiba Format

66 posts in this topic

do one for PSV and LON, that was the good shit

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Since nobody is playing me in the goat league, I've been testing my dragon deck in this format :P

 

it's in OP now

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I think I made the world's oldest combo deck :) :

 

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The idea is you stall until the opponent has 12 cards left in deck, 6 cards in hand, and then play your two copies of Card Destruction. You can adjust your hand size to be appropriate. Ultimate Offering helps in that regard. Hane-hane can also be manually flipped to make your opponent draw 2 extra cards per monster you return.

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Its only weakness is 60 card decks

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I really want to play this. Somebody send me a PM and I'll get on to play. My DN is magicalyata but I'm rarely on so just send me a message here.

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Something gimmicky I've been thinking about is switching out Battle Ox and Neo the Magic Swordsman for Man-Eating Treasure Chest/Ryu-Kishin Powered. This would allow the use of Dark Energy or Sword of Dark Destruction to make all of your normal summons unbeatable by the opponent's beaters, since Ryu-Kishin + Dark Energy is 1900 attack. It also lets your Summoned Skulls and La Jinns to beat the opponent's, as well as giving another out to Mystical Elf + friends in the form of La Jinn + Equip. It can also reduce the number of hits to game, as La Jinn gets to over 2000 for a four-turn clock.

 

The obvious downside of losing an extra card to fissure/dark hole/man-eater should be offset by the advantage you got from attacking their monster and living.

 

Compared to Reinforcements, the equips don't offer as much attack, but they do provide a permanent boost. I'm not really sure how often you'd be able to stick a monster for the extra turn. The speed difference could be somewhat relevant, such as if they have a Set + La Jinn, you can use Equip + Monster to clear La Jinn rather than setting reinforcements and dying to Man-Eater Bug.

 

It's been working out for me, but I don't play against people with much knowledge of this format, so that's probably the real reason it works.

 

An even worse version of this also exists with Earth, but it's only suitable if you wanted to give yourself a handicap. In addition to Battle Ox with 1700, Pale Beast, Uraby, Destroyer Golem, and Kojikocy all have 1500 attack, which means they can get to 1900 with the Equip. Judge Man also gets to 2600 over Summoned Skull.

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The problem with equips is they backfire heavily when your opponent has Reinforcements. Turns your play into a -1 and a waste of a normal summon.

I really haven't spent much time on this format recently, but occasionally someone asks me to play it. It's a nice break from more complex formats.

I also really think the mill deck I posted is Tier 0.
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Do you think increasing the total deck size to 50+ is worth the hit to consistency to try and play around the mill deck posted above? Especially in a mill vs. mill mirror, having more cards in the deck should be more important.

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Deck seems butt when you have like a 1/3 chance of one of the destructions being in the bottom 12 cards.

Any particular reason we think this format is better without metal raiders than with?
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Deck seems butt when you have like a 1/3 chance of one of the destructions being in the bottom 12 cards.

Any particular reason we think this format is better without metal raiders than with?

 

1. It's very easy to continue stalling. Here is the strategy I use: set 2 2000 DEF blockers at a time, until raigeki and dark hole are gone then you can set 3+. Only use trap hole on summoned skulls or other monsters that can attack over a wall. Only use waboku when the opponent is going for the game push. Lather rinse repeat.

 

A 52-54 card deck could be beaten via deckout if you use a combination of ultimate offerings to deplete your hand and dark hole to clear your own field. The 60 card deck is much more difficult, and in that case I would probably change my entire strategy so as to play aggressively and side into a "standard" deck G2 and G3. I should have a significant advantage in those games.

 

2. I like the format with MRD better. It's just different though. There's a thread for it on page 2 in this forum.

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On 8/22/2015 at 9:36 AM, JC. said:

Do you think increasing the total deck size to 50+ is worth the hit to consistency to try and play around the mill deck posted above? Especially in a mill vs. mill mirror, having more cards in the deck should be more important.

 

Is the card pool even large enough for a 50 card deck.  It's two starter decks and a set full of 90% bad cards.

 

On 8/22/2015 at 2:39 PM, Logic said:

.

Any particular reason we think this format is better without metal raiders than with?

 

Because it would be a way different format with MRD.

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Original #1

1 Summoned Skull

3 La Jinn the Mystical Genie of the Lamp

3 Battle Ox

3 Neo the Magical Swordsman

3 Wall of Illusion

3 Man-Eater Bug

3 Giant Soldier of Stone

 

1 Pot of Greed

1 Dark Hole

1 Raigeki

1 Change of Heart

1 Pot of Greed

1 Monster Reborn

3 Fissure

3 Last Will

 

3 Reinforcements

3 Waboku

3 Trap Hole

 

  Last Will seems amazing.  Odds of your monsters dying during your turn is high with Trap Hole, Reinforcements and Man-Eater Bug to contend with.  Being able bring out a defense wall thins your deck, protects your life points and increases your field presence.

 

My side deck: 2 Summoned Skull, 2 Soul Exchange, 2 De-Spell, 2 Swords of Revealing Light, 2 Card Destruction, 1 Spirit of the Harp, 2 Yami, 2 Sword of Dark Destruction.

 

I can see Card Destruction as useful against players who are trying to save up their power cards for later.  I like doing poor man's soul control with Summoned Skull.

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Last Will doesn't work how you think it does. Prior to 2006, you had to use it pre-emptively, which makes it terrible against cards like Trap Hole for example.

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Thanks for noting that.  I'll cut the card down to 1.  

 

I think it can work in cases of battling with even stats, and then Special Summoning a monster to your board to up your field presence.

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/ I don't actually play this format but I just got an idea that I wanted to share / 

So I was looking at all those 1700 beaters and I thought: they actually suck and I would never waste any card on beating them, rust rely on Jinn etc to do so. With that said, Summoned Skull suddenly became overpowered, because it's essentially 3 more copies of Jinn and the -1 for a tribute doesn't really matter if you can run over 1 monster that's already a +1. I also saw Soul Exchange which must be the most broken 3-off in this format. So that got me the following idea:

 

I think the 'Dragon deck' should play 3 Summoned Skull and 3 Soul Exchange, not fissures dark hole and 1700 atk monsters, but I haven't tested yet. The idea is simply that with Jinn/Summoned Skull/Dragons, you will beat every other monster by battle, so your only concern is beating trap holes(3 trap master), man eater bug/their summoned skull and Jinn. (3 man eater bug, 1 raigeki, 3 soul exchange, 1 Change of heart.)


The gameplan, then, is not to hope they dont have trap hole/dark hole, but to actually walk straight into them and win because you have more BEWD/Skull/Jinn then they have Trap Holes. Probably needs reinforcement/swords/trap hole still, with the trap hole probably being a necessary evil to kill their summoned skull/Jinn. Never use on 1700 atk monsters though.  I also think that wall of illusion is always better than other 2000 def normals because it makes Summoned skull etc. bounce to get over it if they don't have fissure. Any reason to think otherwise, besides the 150 LP damage?
 

An idea of what the deck would look like, although it probably needs to be cut to 40, would be:
 

3 Blue-Eyes White Dragon
3 Summoned Skull
3 La Djinn
3 Trap Master
3 Man-Eater Bug
3 Wall of Illusion
3 Giant Stone Soldier
3 Lord of D.
3 Mystical Elf
/27
 

1 Pot of Greed
1 Monster Reborn
1 Raigeki
2 Swords
1 Change of Heart
3 Flute of Summoning D.
3 Soul Exchange
/12
 

3 Reinforcement
3 Trap Hole
/6

 

Maybe some tri-horned as well though. Initially wasn't even sure about the Flute of D./Lord of D., which might not even be necessary. If you cut that and add 1 Tri-Horned (or, if there's a 1-tribute normal monster with like more than 2200 atk (1700+reinforcement) preferably more than 2350 (1850+reinforcement), maybe that instead), you got a 40-card deck. The Flute/Lord are essentially bricks regardless so they may not even be necessary. The def monsters should cover all 1700 atk monsters each and you have more of them than they have Fissure. If they want to waste Dark Hole/Raigeki on them, then that's fine as well. 

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Alternatively the Equip Spell plan might work, although I haven't looked into them. The idea would probably be to use Def position monsters to bait Fissures, and then ideally you'd use Equip spells that make your monsters have over 1850 atk. Then use Trap Hole etc to deal with Skull. Even over 1700 atk would be useful. But the problem would be if they're equips that are useable on multiple monsters, so you won't have a lot of inconsistent 2-card combo's. May even look into the field spells etc to see if there's an attribute that no one uses, has like 1600 atk monsters, then make them 1800 or whatever. But probably doesn't work. 

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Just so I'm correct, the Lord of D and Flute combo is for OTK's right?  That's a 4 card combo (5 if removal is required to set up the board).  Also there's so many removal cards in this format that a Blue-Eyes can get destroyed almost as easily as a Summoned Skull.

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Yeah I wouldn't call it a good deck by any stretch of the imagination. Strictly for cosplaying as kaiba

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what removal cards work vs BEWD with Lord of D on the field in this format? didnt lord of d have funny text in TCG when it was first printed that made it function differently than it does now?

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53 minutes ago, banefulscolumn said:

Just so I'm correct, the Lord of D and Flute combo is for OTK's right?  That's a 4 card combo (5 if removal is required to set up the board).  Also there's so many removal cards in this format that a Blue-Eyes can get destroyed almost as easily as a Summoned Skull.

The idea behind the deck, as explained, is the fact that everything essentially is 'normal summon, atk'. Meaning card advantage itself doesn't exist (lol and people thought modern ygo was bad), because, as long as you have a higher atk beatstick you could theoretically atk over 10 lower atk monsters. Given that most decks play a lot of weak monsters, we can take advantage of that fact simply by accepting that blocking with high DEF position monsters means that we now have 9 high atk monsters: BEWD, Summoned Skull, Jinn. Each just run over opp's lower monsters. Of course there's removal, so one should try to play BEWD only when you already have like an Elf (4-card combo, mind you). Then, the problem would be opposing Jinn/Skull which can be dealt with with your Trap Holes and Soul Exchanges, and of course the next problem, the opponents Trap Holes/Dark Hole/Raigeki/Man-Eater Bug, which I try to deal with by maxing Trap Master, my own Man-Eating Bugs, Soul Exhange (also deals perfectly with Jinn/Summoned Skull). Always have max. 1 Jinn/Summoned Skull/BEWD on the field at most to play around Dark Hole/Raigeki. Like the only problem I have is if this is reliable enough since it relies on quite a few cards, also you sacrifice a lot of cards so if things do go wrong (opponent drawing more trap holes/fissures than you have ways to deal with etc.), that'll go bad as well, although you should be able to stall quite some time with the high def monsters & swords. Like the only thing I'm really concerned about is stuff such as getting the Trap Masters / Man-Eater Bugs to survive when you don't have the Swords. I mean I guess your opponent could just Raigeki/Dark hole when you have 2 set monsters or when you have BEWD+Elf, which just sucks as well true. But the gameplan is to make sure you have more BEWD/Summoned Skull/Jinn, then your opponent has Trap Holes/Raigeki's etc. Like said, not sure if this is possible untested probably sucks etc. But, theoretically, once you do have a higher atk monster than they have, you can just either beat them to death or walk over every monster. I don't give a shit about OTK's in a format where literally Wall of Illusion, Waboku, Trap Hole etc. exist. 

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Real talk I'd probably consider maxing on Summoned Skull and Soul Exchange regardless of whether you're playing the dragons or not though, since I think these could be really good 

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