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Burning Abyss - Deck Discussion

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+Silver    1013

I feel like cutting graff is an enormous mistake.

One thing that I've found relevant with BA is that you can play it like a really degenerate rush deck and put your opponent on a fast clock.

Tour guide into graff, detach graff from dante into cir is 4100 damage. An insane amount of damage/value coming from single card.

Without playing graff, you eliminate that option.

 

Yeah Iv done this also. Really effective combo in time and good way to set-up Dante combo.

 

Also a way to set-up without getting Mind Crushed TGU via scarm searching effect at end phase while still having a board of floaters. Mind Crush is real tho.

 

Whats peoples opinions on maining a Chaos Trap Hole? Banishing a Deneb or the Del Taco seems pretty legit imo or any summon (except for the obv coth and s.c)

and Burning Abyss with TGU or Dante?

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Nidoqueen    146

I've been searching for a few cards that could give the deck some other options:

 

DarklordZerato-BP02-EN-R-1E.png

 

I've been thinking about this for several reasons:

With TGU, Math, Dante and the BA that fetch/special each other, he can be played pretty quickly by tributing a BA that you'd have specialed.

Moreover, you'll be able to trigger its effect off a BA discard. It'll be destroyed during the EP, but it's not a problem if you run Supply Unit.

 

300px-RuthlessDenial-DP04-EN-SR-1E.jpg

 

It would become a 1 for 1 card, since sending a BA monster would trigger its effect.

I don't really know if this card is worth considering, though the idea seems cool.

 

300px-DamageCondenser-SDBE-EN-C-1E.png

 

Since you usually receive 1000+ damages, you can discard a BA, special and does not lose any CA.

Theoretically, you would gather 2 BA to Xyz whatever you want the next turn. Or just to defend.

Just another "cute" idea.

 

300px-NexttobeLostDR04-EN-C-UE.png

 

In case the opponent wouldn't want to trigger your Burning Abyss...

It theoretically allows you to gather 2 BA with Cir reborning whatever, Graff, specialing whatever and Scarm fetching whatever.

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TINA FEY    700

1: We can hardly justify Raiza or Caius in the main--the thought that a situational one tribute monster that destroys itself at the end phase is pretty bad.

2: Yes, it's 1-1, and taking cards from the hand has been badass since Magic Ruler was released, but there's a reason the best water decks weren't running spiritual water art.  You're better off reacting to the threat on board--not the cards they have in hand (that's where dead cards sit, you know?) You'd be better off with back to square one, even dark core, etc.

3: Use a PWWB, Karma Cut, even Dimensional Prison in this spot.  Just out their monster.  Don't take a large chunk of damage and telegraph "Next turn I will be XYZing and attempting to get over that monster that has 2000+ attack."

4: Trap card, very situational foolish burial.  Far too slow and the deck burns through resources fast enough as is.

 

I'm being really tactful when I say those suggestions were "not good." Let's just move on from them,  no need for further discussion.

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Candela    546

Dragged Down is like Ruthless Denial but better in every way and people don't even play that.

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afr    980

If we want to improve something, we should be pointing out what the deck is lacking and pointing out its strenghts, there is no way to build upon something if we can't establish what is good and what is bad from the get go.

 

The good:

 

- Deck plays the best trap cards available to full potential.

- Deck can do what it is meant to over and over again once it gets the engine rolling.

- Pleaides is nuts ATM.

- Better prepared to grind than satellars and less NS.

 

The bad:

 

- Can early game "Brick". I've had several times (with standard 12 + 2 mathman + foolish) hands where i only have traps and no monsters and it takes me forever to get to 1, however despite malebranches being capable of SS you can't increase the NS count up by much becaus ethose extra NS become a liability once you are tour guding turn after turn (i've had multiple dead mathmans in mid game often). In the end i am at 2 math, 12 basics and 3 upstarts as mons only, relying in pleaides as my boss monster.

 

- Lacks "boss" monsters. While r3 are good in an open gamestate where no player can gain significant field advantage over the other, r3 are completey ass against big monsters, so you need something capable of doing the work. Astral force is fine because pleiades is the nuts ATM and you can set-up the dante-cir- astral cycle to put him back and again into the game in the mid/late game. But i've actually had some issues with raizas, BLS and sorcerers because they are completely useless t1, i do not want to banish dante early game either (becausei need him to keep on doing my plays or i simply can't set another one) and as evidenced by shaddolls, most light monsters to splash are poop.

 

Raiza is a bit different but often times i had lost dante and the only way to make him live is by throwing a quick SS and biting the bullet. I do think that monarchs are not needed at all. However, relying on pink cards all of the time to clean everything is not good enough either. So here is something to fix. 

 

- Runs through resources fast enough to the point that you begin to lack ways to win the game as soon as the mid game hits. Sure, you can cir/dante/astral loop for 3500 but i do not think that is enough because you are losing your draw phase and/or run out of pleiades and lose anyway.

 

Transmigration is fine due to current meta environment but solves nothing in the long run nor is reliable enough, dichotomy is a brick early game and is hard enough to send 3 types and even then it only recycles 1 fiend. Fortune tune requires resources to put in the first place, so i do not think is good enough but being from the extra means that i can't possibly brick with it so who cares. Deck gives you a limited amount of turns to try to win for that very same reason, the only possible play at that point is spamming 1 mat pleiades (+ free dante if you have 2 yarded or detach in mp1) at the cost of your draw phase.

 

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Supply squad actually doesn't make any weakness of the deck get any better.

 

Is it a boss monster? NO.

Does it recycle? NO.

Does it makes your engine go any faster? NO (it requires you to have an already good opener).

 

In exchange:

 

It cuts you out of malebranche SS effects, which is pretty relevant throught the normal flow of a game. Whoever is saying that it is not, is lying. Sometimes you need to put in alucard before you go for the big pleiades play or put pleiades + angineer or stuff like that. SS malebranches is one of the few avenues to make all of that mid game advantage live (the point you have a bunch of malebranches in your hand). 

 

Supply squad actually completely cuts you of that. While adding nothing worthwhile to the problems of the deck. Is free drawing nice? Of course. Is free drawing at the cost of cutting you out of options nice? No. In fact you can see the t4 match of ARG to see why supply squad isn't that good here (g1 he had infinite CA but nothing worthwhile to do with it so he might as well not have it anyway and he loses, g2 card does nothing).

 

And ultimately you are setting yourself to lose infinite backrow match-ups as now the only thing they need to do is play one trap per turn to win (you might have 500 monsters in hand that serve the same purpose: DO NOTHING).

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If we are going to keep on using the deck as a high trap count deck, wiretap is a good choice that wasn't as played in Atlantic City as it covers you from stellarnova alpha and sinister shadow games (+ being a decent g2 card against chain disappereance, that is definitely going to be a key card from here and on against this deck).

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Sage.    758

It's mentioned in the main post, but I definitely feel like Divine Wrath is in a good spot right now.  PWWB, Raigeki Break, and Karma Cut are great but not necessarily very good against Satellars.  Divine Wrath does a good job at stopping their loop and/or preventing their engine from ever starting, the same goes for the Burning Abyss mirror as it can stop Tour Guides.  Not to mention that both of these decks intend to make the same plays turn after turn, so it's pretty hard to miss your 'window of opportunity'.

It's worse against Shaddolls, but it still has marginal uses.

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Keaghey    135

x9 Burning Abyss monsters

x3 TGU

x2 Mathem

 

x3 MST

x3 Lance

x3 RUM

x1 Foolish

x1 Dark Hole

x1 Soul Charge

x1 Book of Moon

 

x3 PWWB

x2 Vanity's

x2 Dimensional Prison (regret)

x2 Breakthrough Skill

x4 good one-ofs

 

Side:

x2 Back to Square One

x2 Divine Wrath (probably the best card I sided)

x2 Level Limit Area B (another pretty good card)

x2 Light-Imprisoning Mirror

x2 Maxx C

x2 DD Crow

x1 Soul Release

x1 Transmigration Prophecy

x1 Mal Cat

 

^I took that to my regional this past weekend.  I went x-2 in 8 rds, losing to water in time mid rounds, and shadolls rd1 because I didn't know what their cards even did.  I tested lists very similar to the ones that topped ARG, but concluded that:

1. Supply Squad wasn't worth a slot in the deck at all.

2. Running Veilers to aide a chaos boss monster wasn't helping.

3. I needed to run MSTs because I was scooping games to emptiness.

4. Monarchs in the main are overrated.

 

The side deck was pretty bonk, but I haven't played ygo competitively in 4 months, so I didn't have a lot of cards, and was scrambling to figure out what to side.  I figured d prison would be good because of shadolls, but I only played against two, and waiting for them to attack to trigger it wasn't a solid enough gameplan.  I went into time a lot, nearly every round. Late games I found myself chumb blocking with dante/cir a lot, and just recycling RUMs to make one-material pleiadaes. 

 

I do want to talk about the MSTs tho.  I don't understand how people are getting away without MSTs in their testing.  This isn't me saying my way is correct.  I'm legitimately curious.  I understand that raigeki break and, to a lesser extent, PWWB deal with emptiness, but did you really just wait the extra turn after drawing those traps to out emptiness?  I wanted to be able to out emptiness, and SIM instantly. 

 

Also I played three lance because going second and attempting to resolve a TGU is one of the scariest things on earth. I'm assuming the sentiment is shared because people are playing 2-3 lance in the main as well. 

 

I feel like I'm forgetting to say something I wanted to, but yeah

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Jurdinator    23

i honestly just think 9 BA monsters, 3 mathe, 3 guide, 1 bls, 3 squad, allure, foolish and the rest being traps is the best way to play this deck though u could play felice/veilers/sorcs but really in testing i found that dante/downerd beat with alotta of traps is enough and RUM is not needed.

 

and to those not playin RUM, ud prob have space for 1-2 rank 2s for g2/g3 (prob pure light to recycle bls and gachi) since stygian dire is becoming a staple in the side and u could just overlay a downered on top anyways

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GiovanniDM15    64

After this weekend of scrubbing out the ARG Atlantic City main event with this deck, then coming in 5th in the 1K on Sunday with a different build, and also weeks of testing, there are several conclusions I have arrived at

 

-Definitely agree with Jeff on not playing Supply Squad. Many times the cards you draw off it are normal summons or BAs that you cannot SS since supply is on the field. Also, many decent/good TK and Shaddoll players could easily play around supply squad or just destroy it with mainboarded Msts/dragon/etc. One thing that I love about this deck is that almost all your backrow are chainable. Many people are currently maining MST, which causes Supply Squad just becomes a huge magnet for it. Without squad,  your opponent will most likely end up MSTing a chainable card, usually giving them a -1. The deck itself naturally generates enough advantage on its own, and does not need Squad. Many people will look at the ARG AC decklists and automatically assume that they have to play supply squad, and not formulate their own opinion or thoughts on whether it is really needed or not. (Main Event: mained 3...1K : mained 2, but never drew it and sided it out every game)

 

-Agree with maining 3 Rank Up Magic Astral Force. Easily one of the best cards in the deck. I usually want to get to this card as fast as possible, whether it is drawing into 1 of the 3, or milling 3 with Dante and eventually hitting it. Yes, I do understand that this card could be a dead draw, especially if your opponent has a ton of backrow and you aren't even able to make a Rank 3 at any point. Despite this, I feel the rewards greatly outweigh the risk of maining 3 RUM. It really gives the deck the extra push to possibly be the best deck.  (Main Event : mained 2....1K: mained 3)

 

-Agree with Maining BLS, 1-2 Chaos Sorceror, 1-2 Veiler, no Monarchs mained, but sided. I really feel BLS and Sorc are exactly what this deck needs. Being able to follow up all your BA,TGU, and RUM shenanigans with a chaos monster could be very overwhelming for your opponent. You really just want to use your normal for TGU, or a Normal/Special BA play. Also by having a BLS/Sorc in hand throughout the game, it allows you to dictate how you want the game to be played out, since you can virtually drop it at any time( helps if you main 3 Math, or 2 Math/1 Kuribandit). If you end up not having a light in grave, you can always normal Math to send veiler to grave, and then SS the BLS/Sorc. Another great play is when you are able to SS BA, SS BA, make XYZ(Alucard/Dante/etc.), normal TGU, Make XYZ(Alucard/Dante/etc.), then follow up with a chaos monster. If you are using supply squad or maining monarchs, this is usually not possible. Also, I feel Veiler is good card to main right now, in this deck at least. (Main Event: mained BLS, 2 Raiza, No Sorc.....1k: mained BLS, 2 Sorc, 2 Veiler, sided Raizas)

 

-Nightmare Shark, Grenosaurus/Volcasaurus, Gaia Charger, Downerd and Fortune Tune(fortune only in time) allow this deck to steal so many games, including the ones you should have never won (Unfortunely did this to Urthor on DN rated last night lol =/). Nightmare Shark is basically a Heartlandraco that is incredibly easy to make in this deck. For some reason many non-BA players are not that aware of it, so they will recklessly Soul Charge for 4-5, and you can go Shark for 2000, or even Shark + Acid Golem for 3000 direct. I initially was not playing playing Greno/Volca/Charger/Tune, but then I realized the combination of these cards with Nightmare Shark pretty much gives this deck so many alternative ways to win, outside of powerful normal plays the deck has.

 

I am not saying that all or even any of this is completely optimal, but just based on my testing the past weeks, and this past weekend, I currently feel these points are correct or close to it. Feel free to add on ideas, give criticism, or even agree =D.

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R1A6G0p.png

 

 

I haven't really seen any posts about an artifact hybrid, so I thought I'd throw an outline out there. It's been testing really well. BA provides resources and Artifacts provide disruption, big bodies, and light targets. Any thoughts?

I've tried mashing BA with different archetypes / engines and nothing is as efficient or effective as the core BA set up most people are playing. The traps give you way too much advantage and there are too many cards in BA to make it efficient in anything else, as I've tried playing. Maybe I'm not thinking out side of the box enough on this one?

 

The theory that I have found that works best is to keep applying pressure through disruption. Hold your Dante's on the board and apply pressure, fuel the grave, keep swinging, and eventually you will out resource and overwhelm them.

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Chaotrope    245

That looks similar to the first build I tried when the stuff was announced. It's decent, but I found it to be kinda inconsistent.

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Chimera    610
Victor, Ben, Dirk, Jeff, Pat etc. all on the same page..

We may have some disagreements right now but for fuck sakes this thread (and deck) is sure going somewhere
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Camel    11
This deck is already pretty damn amazing. Scary to think what the 5 new support cards coming in NECH will bring to the table.

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Exitium    127

I think Hobans idea of thunder dragon in Shaddolls should actually be translated here, Thunder Dragon +Soul charge seem better in this deck than in SHaddolls specifically because it already runs discards, and this deck definitely needs usuable lights for BLS/Sorc if people are running them. 

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Dirk    1957

I already tried thunder dragon. Its cute but realistically its a -1 no matter how you look at it since you never get value out of it

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Chimera    610

The Selection as a side vs Tellarknights, too narrow? We basically always have Dante floating around

 

To think of it, Chaos Trap Hole is probably a better option. Negates and banishes the Deneb so no Altair.

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+Urthor    10235

The selection only hits the one summon, and that's a major issue.  It just doesn't "do enough" overall, even when you get it to resolve fully, which is not always the case.  

 

Chaos Trap hole does the same job for 1000 more life points keep in mind.  But I'd be looking much more strongly at cards that are overall more influential, like Royal Prison, Malcat, Chain Whirlwind, trap stun, wiretap.  

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Sanjura    6663

Just use Flying "C" and generic S/T hate for Satellas.

Flying "C" is actually just the best floodgate because there is nothing that Satellas can do to get over Scarm, and only Unuk can match something like Alucard-everything else is just too weak. And there's always the (busted) applications of bouncing Flying "C" back with Pleaides (!!!).

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»Sharpman    4800

flying c is really stupid against this deck

 

it not only floodgates you but raigeki's you too

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»victor    6399

Ojama Trio does the same.

 

"The tokens cannot be Tributed for a Tribute Summon."

 

So they can't even Monarch or Majesty out.

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Squiddy    9173

lol dang flying c being a lvl 3 sucks really bad in this scenario  (|:|)

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i told dirk squad sucked and he wouldn't agree with me

 

he also thinks mst was good in gears last format when the mirror/hat were more prevalent.

 

arg dirk fan-gner

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Dirk    1957

You guys really need to stop exaggerating. Squad doesn't suck. Vorse Raider is an example of a card that sucks. Like the difference between squad and no squad is not night and day. And bodan is wrong about mst, but hey if you say it enough times maybe people will start to believe it

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