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Burning Abyss - Discussion

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herbie ✌    1340
I just win by siding in Shared Rides alongside Maxx and go for massive damage every turn and hide behind infinite floaters until they dont have the Valk, floodgating is a shitty strategy and we all know it, every time a new deck comes out thats more powerful people say the same thing instead of using the decks strengths people decide that adding more shit cards to the deck will fix it, and guess what, it never works.
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sb24stk    298
Full strength of this deck is not good enough against nekroz as the result of ycs Tacoma had shown. It's basically a tech like ddwl and psi blocker.

I didn't play at ycs but I did playtest against nekroz before ycs with main canceller and had success with it 15-3 matches.
Giga brilliant + canceller is pretty good against Qli and shadoll
You guys don't need to play it, but test it out

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G Λ r Ω N    5934
How are you expecting Spell Canceller+Ant to go off when you need it the most within the first 2 turns though? It's nigh impossible with a 5 card hand, you also have to consider that all Nekroz needs is to see two of 11 cards to search, 5 of which are searchable and the other 6 are Jus to clear the Canceller and get rolling.

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sb24stk    298
You only need spell canceller against nekroz. All you need is a ba monster + sc
In order to play it, I went back to the old way (heavy traps)

Most nekroz only run either one Mage or princess

To run over canceller they will need Mage/princess + da. For ba to Prevent the attack, they only need 1/9+
If you karma cut, their only out is either ddwl or psi if they main it.
If you Raigeki break they will need 2 unicore to redo.
If you wing blast/ced, they will need a unicore to redo

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TFJ    618

You only need spell canceller against nekroz. All you need is a ba monster + sc
In order to play it, I went back to the old way (heavy traps)

Most nekroz only run either one Mage or princess

To run over canceller they will need Mage/princess + da. For ba to Prevent the attack, they only need 1/9+
If you karma cut, their only out is either ddwl or psi if they main it.
If you Raigeki break they will need 2 unicore to redo.
If you wing blast/ced, they will need a unicore to redo

Are you high? I said 5 posts up how those work or don't work.

Karma Cut. Trishula. Otherwise yes you take it.
Raigeki Break. Trishula, Gungnir. 1 just 1 Unicore.
PWWB. Lol. I draw and push again next turn. Hope you had a TGU to actually do damage.

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sb24stk    298
what are the chance they will have 3 cards they run 1 each.

I rather have them waste 3 cards to destroy a card. There is also a chance you can open multiple traps.

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TFJ    618
I'm not saying they will easily get over it.
I'm saying you don't understand your opponent deck enough based on not understanding their outs.

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herbie ✌    1340
None of the rituals are even that bad, especially if you keep your Dantes under Downerds so you dont get raped by Brio/Trish in a simplified game state, fields that include Dweller are the real killers, they can easily clear your shit which is fine but just losing because you cant continuously sit behind Graf/Libic/Cir and losing a fuckload of cards in a single turn and not being able to make a comeback because Dweller is still sitting there is the biggest problem.
I've been maining Breakthrough to help deal with it but only running the one copy, I feel like we need something better, the card may even exist but too obscure for me to think of iunno, may have to just DN search function a bit at some point.
I've considered Michief of the Gnomes as a way to mess with the levels and all that, also it stops them making dweller which is neat but I havent tested it enough to say its effective at all.
Anyone know when Diamond Dust comes out? Could be good for clearing boards to push for damage and actually assists in the kill.

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Samantha    154

This is Edward (BLS4GAME) Apaipong's BA list that he got Top 16 with last weekend at the YCS.

 

[spoiler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9HWUojYbCc

[/spoiler]

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EvilNermin    0

Is it just me or did he show only 37 cards? Curious what the last 3 cards were.

 

I like it so far, especially the 3 spell canceller sided. Not sure on this massive back row hate in the Side though.

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foofatron    38

None of the rituals are even that bad, especially if you keep your Dantes under Downerds so you dont get raped by Brio/Trish in a simplified game state, fields that include Dweller are the real killers, they can easily clear your shit which is fine but just losing because you cant continuously sit behind Graf/Libic/Cir and losing a fuckload of cards in a single turn and not being able to make a comeback because Dweller is still sitting there is the biggest problem.
I've been maining Breakthrough to help deal with it but only running the one copy, I feel like we need something better, the card may even exist but too obscure for me to think of iunno, may have to just DN search function a bit at some point.
I've considered Michief of the Gnomes as a way to mess with the levels and all that, also it stops them making dweller which is neat but I havent tested it enough to say its effective at all.
Anyone know when Diamond Dust comes out? Could be good for clearing boards to push for damage and actually assists in the kill.

Gnomes seems pretty good. Shrit is the easiest way around it otherwise they'd probably have a dead turn (possible to summon trish + gungiar off Kaleidoscope). Just being able to stop arc-light searches and dweller is good though.

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Fullerene60    378

Why not just play divine wrath over cards like breakthrough skill and karma cut. 
The only issue I could forsee is getting torn to shreds by a dance princess, but then again... dweller is the real issue.

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Bistro    15

How do you guys deal with unicore? the only monster outs we have are virgil and acid golem. virgil is sometimes hard to make and acid golem obviously has its flaws. I've been thinking about using both astral force and mask change the second because they are both outs to that which is the easiest to bring out and are good against the other rituals as well. durendal is much better in the nekroz matchup than pleiades and both effects can be used against them (unless they are using cycle). 

I think that these cards are better than playing floodgates (at least pre-side) because they go with what the deck does best which is making dante. only instead you would make angineer into durendal or dante -> graff -> ba -> mc2 -> dark law. 

thought i would post something to get the discussion started as it seems no one has really found a consistent answer to nekroz

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BLS4GAME    71

I ran 8 traps. It got cut off in the video but the last 4 are 3 Karma Cut and 1 Solemn Warning.  The Karma Cuts were great alongside the Mask Changes because I just removed all of their resources.  Competent people and most people in general just play 1 Trishula so Karma Cutting that when they thought they could Trish with m 1 card in hand when I had Cut down meant I did not have to deal with it for the rest of the game.  I also Karma Cut some Brionacs and removed some in grave from play.  Against Qliphort, I would just remove their resources and deny them good pendulum summons, and everybody knows how good Cut can be in the BA mirror.  Lastly, Satellaknights for some reason were still running around and seeing enough play and Karma Cut on Deneb first turn is just an autowin.  Satellaknights would honestly be a pretty difficult matchup without the Cuts in my deck.  Solemn Warning was a card I did not want to play but it was good for cutting off Manju/Senju, usually making sure that I would not get Dweller'd that turn, or you could Warning a ritual spell when they already control a monster and they would not be able to banish the spell from the grave to add another or play the same ritual that turn again.  I found that most of the times if I did not get Dweller'd or Trishula'd when playing against Nekroz, I could just outgrind them and put immense pressure on them every turn.  Bouncing back my Dantes with Brionac is fine as long as I get the effects of my guys underneath and it also means I can summon numerous Dantes later down the line again. Vs qliphorts solemn warning was also just great for cutting off Pendulum summons, so it was a card that I felt was effective against 2 of the most played decks.

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ShyGuy    91

I honestly do not think breakthrough skill is the answer to nekroz or will help you. It takes a turn of set up at the very least and it doesnt out the problem like karma cur or even dark core do. You still need cards along breakthrough to make it viable or you could use cards like karma cut that will actually help against cards on the field.

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As I'm not going Prague I don't mind sharing anything I'm working on but I feel 3 main deck mistakes could really fill the trap line up required here to hurt nekroz. Hits qliphort as well and tellar for that matter as bonuses. I know someone will yell back "yo dude scarm!" But it really doesn't matter as obviously your hoping to open it going first so make dantes set mistake Ep scarm brain power! Like mid ravine ruler format when I member iron wall was sided to success despite Fate by a team of book players at an arg. But even if mid game you can't go scarm doesn't matter so much as your winning vs nekroz regardless once its up. Really feel floods are best vs nekroz despite mst it's just till now we only had emptiness add more and they can't cant mst them all!

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fractal    2488

The only real problem with Mistake: Continuous Trap Card. As long as they're up, you're reliant on TGU to do the heavy lifting, which when combined with the inability to tutor it with Scarm, just gives the Nekroz player the edge, as they are more likely to draw into plays than you.

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TFJ    618

The only real problem with Mistake: Continuous Trap Card. As long as they're up, you're reliant on TGU to do the heavy lifting, which when combined with the inability to tutor it with Scarm, just gives the Nekroz player the edge, as they are more likely to draw into plays than you.

I dont know if I would say they are likely to draw into plays.

If they kill any BA that special summons, that gives you plays next turn. Detaching a special summoner gives you plays.
Nekroz needs to rely on getting a Shurit or the right combination of ritual cards to summon. Then they have to hope for a decent one like worst case Brio to temp spin and get ran over. While not getting any searching done.

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I honestly do not think breakthrough skill is the answer to nekroz or will help you. It takes a turn of set up at the very least and it doesnt out the problem like karma cur or even dark core do. You still need cards along breakthrough to make it viable or you could use cards like karma cut that will actually help against cards on the field.

the monster aren't the problem beside the djin lock their aren't hard get over at all

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ibGehring+    1410

Continuous trap cards are fine if you build your deck to suit. Not being able to special summon is not always bad. But you need to have the right game plan. (Cir/Graff become very, very, important.)

 

 

 

People should look into Mathematician a bit more. It is Tour Guide 4-6 and allows you to have a stronger overall engine. 

 

It is very hard to race Nekroz. They can put mass damage on the board very quickly and prevent OTKs just as easy. You need to focus more on small damage, and keeping the board clear.

 

Mathematician allows you to play around the Djinn lock extremely easy, which is a huge problem at certain points of the game. It allows you to drop Cagna, which can drop G&E for quite a big following turn. G&E being in your grave is pretty important at all points of the game. I have found that card to one of the most important in the deck for breaking boards and setting up big turns. Math into Libic, obviously not as good as just a 1 card Tour Guide, but you can easily sacrifice some card advantage for a multipurpose tool. 

It also does open you up to siding in Mistake. I'm not sure how great the card is, but I feel like it can be just a complete blowout. Especially with other floodgates.

 

Effect Veiler is probably the best hand trap you can have vs Nekroz. You need to shut their threats off when they hit the board, not draw cards with Maxx C. You will fall too far behind. You need to have Veiler for Dweller, and let them Brio your Dantes. It's fine as long as you get something out of it. You can Veiler the Brio, but that leaves you open to another Nekroz just ripping your board apart.

 

You want to banish threats if possible (relevant for Qli too). Bottomless is actually very playable, if not staple. So is Karma Cut. You do not want your opponent to cycle cards. 

 

 

Abyss Dweller is your biggest threat of all. You need answers at all times to this card. Effect Veiler is just your best option.

 

You also have to be very careful of all their Books. They can cause problems. Mathematician does somewhat mitigate getting completely blown out at times.

 

 

 

Playing BA - you are facing an uphill battle vs any Nekroz deck. It is not unwinnable, but not exactly favorable. It's hard to always have an answer to all their threats.

 

 

Oh, and another problem is that most of their monsters a huge in ATK. Like, it's quite easy for them to just stick a Valk and bash you with it each turn.

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»Sharpman    4801

Just so you know Gehring, Veiler is horrible versus Dweller. They either wait to Dweller until battle phase, or they Dweller when you try to Veiler it. Veiler is only good if your opponent does not know how dweller works.

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RobertM    86

Obviously, but the specific scenario BA really loses to is Dweller + Brio, wherein Veiler does work against Dweller (since Brio can only be used in mp1).  Dweller otherwise is a non-threat unless they can summon two other monster to run over Dante - which is possible but not likely.

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herbie ✌    1340
It's extremely likely actually, like the only situation they wont is if they brick (which does not happen often at all), in which case if they dont have Valk or someway to stall for combo pieces they lose.

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