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Burning Abyss - Discussion

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O-H!    52

 

On topic: I haven't really found an optimal side for knights other than generic s/t removal, stygian(which I don't think is that optimal but I could be wrong) and light mirror. Is there anything else that's worth siding for that matchup?

My side against Tellarknights right now are two Flying Cs, three MSTs, and a Twister. Light-Imprisoning is a counterproductive card for this deck because it will ruin your Dante and Pleiades plays. Stygian Dirge is not a bad side either, but it is a Continuous Trap that could meddle with any Special Summoning plays with the Abyss. I have not tried D.D. Crow much against them, is it really worth using against them?

 

 

 

Mal Cat, Flying C and Needle Ceiling are what i am currently siding vs Tellers. Maining the MSTs of course. It still is an uphill battle for me though :/

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Storm Wolf    1205

 

 

On topic: I haven't really found an optimal side for knights other than generic s/t removal, stygian(which I don't think is that optimal but I could be wrong) and light mirror. Is there anything else that's worth siding for that matchup?

My side against Tellarknights right now are two Flying Cs, three MSTs, and a Twister. Light-Imprisoning is a counterproductive card for this deck because it will ruin your Dante and Pleiades plays. Stygian Dirge is not a bad side either, but it is a Continuous Trap that could meddle with any Special Summoning plays with the Abyss. I have not tried D.D. Crow much against them, is it really worth using against them?

 

 

 

Mal Cat, Flying C and Needle Ceiling are what i am currently siding vs Tellers. Maining the MSTs of course. It still is an uphill battle for me though :/

 

I honestly do not feel that Tellarknight is that difficult of a match-up. The monsters themselves are not hard to disrupt, but what makes them probably the most challenging deck to play against is that they are the best heavy backrow deck. Most of the time that I lose against Tellarknight is because of floodgate shit.

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KidFlash    19


 


 

On topic: I haven't really found an optimal side for knights other than generic s/t removal, stygian(which I don't think is that optimal but I could be wrong) and light mirror. Is there anything else that's worth siding for that matchup?

My side against Tellarknights right now are two Flying Cs, three MSTs, and a Twister. Light-Imprisoning is a counterproductive card for this deck because it will ruin your Dante and Pleiades plays. Stygian Dirge is not a bad side either, but it is a Continuous Trap that could meddle with any Special Summoning plays with the Abyss. I have not tried D.D. Crow much against them, is it really worth using against them?
 
 
 
Mal Cat, Flying C and Needle Ceiling are what i am currently siding vs Tellers. Maining the MSTs of course. It still is an uphill battle for me though :/
 
I honestly do not feel that Tellarknight is that difficult of a match-up. The monsters themselves are not hard to disrupt, but what makes them probably the most challenging deck to play against is that they are the best heavy backrow deck. Most of the time that I lose against Tellarknight is because of floodgate shit.

How has malcat been treating you vs tellar?

Honestly im not a fan of flying c im trying different routes. Even with lim doesnt it just hurt them alot more than you because you still have the rest of the options in your extra while they cant piece a board together?

Alternative ideas ive been thinking about is chaos trap hole even because of it being a counter so unless they already have a tellar on board it locks them out also banishing the monster is huge.

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+Urthor    10200

Malcat?

 

Needle?
 

why use bad cards?

 

 

Get on that chain whirlwind hype.  Literally just resolve chain whirlwind after chain whirlwind and that deck falls over.  3 Whirlwind, 2 DT, 2 Flying C, 3 mained MST.  That's how you get that deck.  

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KidFlash    19

Has anyone tested rank up magic the 7th one? with tonns of discard outlets it seems ok


Just because you have discards doesnt justify another possible brick card. Plus extra is sorta tight. Well if youre running astral.
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+Urthor    10200

Discarding a non-free card for PWWB absolutely isn't my idea of fun.  Rather not have to play a variance boosting card like 7th one without Sylvan Charity.  

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Storm Wolf    1205
Mal Cat was an idea that I tried from the beginning, but I found it unreliable. When you really want to clear a floodgate, it is too slow and suspectible to Wiretap. It is also a nuisance how Tellarknight is the most prepared deck to dodge Mal Cat, and the good players will never run into it after the first time.

I feel that MST in the Main is also not the way to go because it is only great against Vanity in g1. Everyone knows that blind hitting backrow is not a good play, and there are a lot of chainable S/Ts played. So far in my testing, Trap Stun has been reliable with playing around Vanity and annoying Normal Traps.

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Mr Cook    473
Playing Wiretap seems straight up the best option against Tellaknights.
 
It's already really good this format for forcing through your power plays, against Tellaknight the real match-up is against their backrow, especially their Judgment. Post-board you should probably have 3 Wiretap in your deck against Tellas, it covers all the bases, it covers Nova, it covers their Shadow-Imp/Soul Drain (if Wiretap is already down), and Emptiness as well.
 
Trap Stun was always better in combo-based decks where you would flip Trap Stun, make a huge board and pick there's apart, this deck doesn't really do anything like that, it grinds and floats through backrow and slowly builds pressure on the opponent. Wiretap has always been better than Stun when used for this purpose, Burning Abyss already floats through a lot of the popular limited Traps in the game, and Wiretap just gives you more range by hitting Novas, and being Wiretap other Wiretaps etc.
 
I'm not suggesting total reliance on Wiretap to out floodgates because that's silly, probably like most of you, I don't play MST Game 1 although I'm seriously considering it if just for the abundance of Emptiness this format. I've been maining Wiretap, bringing in a 3rd for Nutellas, and then on top of that boarding in the full 3 MST, alongside 1-2 Full House/Mal Cat. This allows you to do cool things like Mal Cat their backrow and Wiretap their Nova they had down to stop it, in a lot of cases the game is already won there.
 
I took the standard RUM-Build to locals this week and went undefeated 7-0 (1 Supply Squad, 1 Chaos Sorc, 2 Veiler, 5 Discards) and I learned a lot with the testing of the deck, it still felt clunky. Outside of the mirror, Veiler put in absolutely zero work, and going 1st and opening Veiler felt like a 4-card hand more often than not. I played 2 of the Mathman and I actually liked him, he gets you out the early game, gets you to TGU really quickly, and is a L3 body to throw down alongside a Veilered TGU. 
 
I played 1 Supply Squad because I really don't like the card, but I figured 1 would be fine as a 40th Card, but after this weekend I'm cutting it to 0. I drew it T1 in the mirror and it stayed up the whole game (30-minute Game 1, a lot of turns) and it drew me a grand total of 0 cards, I know this sounds like anecdotal evidence but the fact is that Supply Squad isn't a real card, it doesn't help against floodgates G2/G3 and contributes to brick hands, if I were to play it I would always side out all copies G2/G3 where the card is just a liability.
 
I am still searching for better Lights to play over the Veilers, I tried to have a look at other boss monsters, but I couldn't find anything better than the RUM + Chaos build at the moment, RUM can be a brick at times but it is one of the only cards in the deck which actually gives you a win condition, and I fully agree with comments above, the re-use from milling it is pivotal in actually winning games, and this makes it better than anything else I've tested so far. I realised that BLS + Chaos Sorc were really clunky as banishing Dante is something you never really want to do, but the raw power of the Chaos monsters in giving you more win conditions is something I can't really ignore.
 
I tested out Thunder Dragon, I tested Veiler, Felis, but none of them were really any good. I have yet to test the Chronomaly L3s (Bones/Skull) but Gorgonic Guardian seems pretty nuts, so maybe it's worth a shot. So far the best Light based engine is the Artifact engine, I've been maining 3 Sanctum/3 Moral, and I'm potentially considering siding into Ignition + Beagal G2/G3.
 
Again this is all just theory but having another power trap in Sanctum, and instead of playing 2 Veilers for lights, you effectively play 6 ways to get a Light in the grave (Sanctum + Moral) which makes dropping the Sorc/BLS more consistant as well. The engine really shines G2/G3 as Moral can pop floodgates like SIM and Soul Drain and allows you to still play YGO even if they have a SIM up. When games drag into floodgate wars, against things like Tella/Shaddoll, Moralltach is actually a beater that's bigger than any of their Normal summons, and that's also a huge bonus. I'm not sure how relevant siding 2 Ignition/1 Beagal will be, the thought process was to pop more and more floodgates, but playing such a heavy engine would probably contribute to more bricks, and MST in the side will probably work just as well.
 
Again, this is alsoo just theory at the minute, I'm lacking serious time to test out these ideas, but from what I've gathered so far, the Artifact/RUM/Chaos Engine seems the best way to play this deck, the components give you real win conditions, and allow you to still play YGO under floodgates G2/G3 which is what you want the deck to do.
 
I'd probably play this main-deck atm:
 
Scarm
Scarm
Scarm
Graff
Graff
Graff
Cir
Cir
Tour Guide
Tour Guide
Tour Guide
Mathman
Mathman
Artifact Moral
Artifact Moral
Artifact Moral
BLS - Envoy
Chaos Sorcerer
Foolish Burial
Soul Charge
RUM - Astral Force
RUM - Astral Force
RUM - Astral Force
Monster Reincarnation
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
Phoenix Wing Wind Blast
Emptiness
Emptiness
Emptiness
Breakthrough Skill
Breakthrough Skill
Wiretap
Wiretap
Compulse
Warning
Torrential
Artifact Sanctum
Artifact Sanctum
Artifact Sanctum
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Storm Wolf    1205

Wiretap has its advantage of negating Counter Traps unlike Trap Stun, which needs to activate pre-emptively, but Wiretap still has the issue of not answering an established Vanity's Emptiness on the field. When you want to go for a play under your opponent's Vanity, even if they negate Stun with a Wiretap or Nova, their Vanity will still hit the graveyard. Another compelling reason why I like Trap Stun is that I am one of the players who are still trying Felis. I am aware of the potential risk of drawing Felis, which is a valid reason to not play it, but I cannot say no to a 1-card Black Rose or Arcanite. This especially comes in handy in g2 and g3 when you need to get rid of Shadow Mirrors, and a pre-emptive Trap Stun will allow your Black Rose to nuke the field without fear of disruption (besides Book of Moon, but I do not think that card is too popular now). Felis is also another Light for BLS.

 

I actually like playing Veiler in the deck. Negating a Deneb or an Altair is one of the best ways to beat the deck, and I am sure that you all are aware of the annoying Castel. It is arguable that Veiler is not so effective against Shaddolls, but negating Falco and Mathematician is nothing to overlook. I do agree that the only Chaos monster that this deck should play is the one BLS. I cannot imagine how you are all not bricking with those two Sorcerers but only two Veilers in the Main Deck. Dante is a Light monster that we summon every single game, but either you want to keep in the graveyard for Cir plays or Castel bounces it. Most of the time that I summon BLS; the monster that I can banish is Veiler or Felis.

 

I would post my list, but I am still testing some gimmicky choices before it is ready for review.

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Chrononaut is awful and even though it lets you do shit like Astral into C69, or Guide into Chrononaut to make in-hand Skull live, it's not a real card.

Treat Gorgon as the Chronomaly Rank 3.


Also, if we're looking at anti-Stellar banishers, Cycle Reader hits Deneb and Sham at the same time, hits Dante, hits Artifacts, and has uses against Lightsworn, but unlike Crow it can't hit Fusion or whatever else.

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gaddster03    17

Chrononaut is awful and even though it lets you do shit like Astral into C69, or Guide into Chrononaut to make in-hand Skull live, it's not a real card.

Treat Gorgon as the Chronomaly Rank 3.


Also, if we're looking at anti-Stellar banishers, Cycle Reader hits Deneb and Sham at the same time, hits Dante, hits Artifacts, and has uses against Lightsworn, but unlike Crow it can't hit Fusion or whatever else.

Yh I wasn't sure because you still have to make the rank 3 which is sub par. I was only suggesting it to make skull live but not worth it I've tested a couple of games with it and the discard traps/dante set up bones fine by themselves.

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Mitch    86
I got 12th this past weekend at regionals with this deck. I ran 0 supply unit and i did play felice, which was mvp all day. I lost last round to evilswarm maining every floodgate on top of 3 prison :(
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Candela    546

I actually think Felis is worth playing simply for its utility post-side board. It's a potential out for multiple floodgate cards and it even trumps Flying "C". There are times when people will preemptively flip SIM or something on a Mathematician summon and I really regret not running Felis.

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Indignation    2854
Really wish I was going to TO. People are really not going to be prepared for what's coming. :)
Anyway I don't like supply squad. Cards not good enough. Don't run slow stuff. You want cards that are live ASAP. I don't want to sit on my ass when using a deck like this. I like to keep the pressure on immediately.
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Gredinus    268

Uh? How is felice an out to floodgate cards?

Candela explained that felis is an out to SIM and flying C

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d3monized    106

 

Uh? How is felice an out to floodgate cards?

Candela explained that felis is an out to SIM and flying C

 

 

Jeff was being a smart-ass. Felice isn't the out, the out is Black Rose Dragon or Arcanite Magician.

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»Jeff Jones    13262
How so? By making arcanite? I don't want to add arcanite into my extra deck that sounds icky

This also means felice is only an out if you have mathematician. There are so many other cards that are just straight up better

I wasn't being a smart ass sorry. I just didn't realize people were going as far to add synchros into their deck along with a single felice
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ibGehring+    1410

I really just do not understand the fetish people have with Monster Reincarnation. 

 

It being a discard outlet does not make it good in my opinion.

Getting back a boss monster should not be the main reason to use the card as the chance for that to happen is actually quite low. If your main reason is to  want it to reuse Tour Guide then why would you not just use Dark Eruption for a completely 100% free 100% of the time card? 

 

There really are just no good monsters/not enough boss monsters to justify this complete brick card.

 

 

 

---

 

The impact a BRD or Arcanite has on the game does not justify adding Felis to your deck. The card is just not good. You remove consistent utility in your deck to add weak Synchro monsters. You add a complete brick to your main deck. It is only viable paired with Mathman, and I'm sure 9 out of 10 times you would rather dump a BA monster. It just is not good or worth it.

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TINA FEY    700

Felice is awesome but it's really hard to justify playing the most unforgiving draw in the game and it basically necessitates that you play three Math.

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Faith+1    41

It might be a shit idea but like it was proposed in the Dragon Ruler Discussion a minute back we could always try 300px-TheFabledCatsith-HA04-EN-SR-1E.jpg

as an out to floodgates.

 

Good discard fodder for PWWB/Break which will remove 2 cards for you.

Also note that it's a light and can support Chaos Sorcerer and BLS.

 

On it's own however, it seems pretty shitty. Idk it's just an idea although MST, Mal Cat, Twister, Dust, Wiretap are all just infinitely better.

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TINA FEY    700

That's a really bad suggestion.  There's literally three or four card in your deck that that card interacts with and the idea of drawing the Cat thing with an outlet and then basically being forced to discard it instead of an Abyss monster to get any value of it is just horrible. Not to mention the fact that you can't even chain and remove the floodgate so your opponent already gets value out of their card. There's a thousand more reasons why that card can't be run.

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