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Shaddoll - Discussion

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Junglebellz    10

They do not have to worry about the constant threat of Super Poly as much, gained a 3rd ROTA, and still can fuck Shaddolls through their floodgates.

They also lost 2 Soul Charge, which means the power plays that the deck can make are greatly diminished. Not to mention, while the deck is consistent as heck, it is also extremely linear and they run a low monster count and everything is really puny attack wise. A well timed Vanity's can mean trouble for the Satellar player.

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Exitium    127

 

They do not have to worry about the constant threat of Super Poly as much, gained a 3rd ROTA, and still can fuck Shaddolls through their floodgates.

They also lost 2 Soul Charge, which means the power plays that the deck can make are greatly diminished. Not to mention, while the deck is consistent as heck, it is also extremely linear and they run a low monster count and everything is really puny attack wise. A well timed Vanity's can mean trouble for the Satellar player.

 

the optimal satella decks mained 2 Soul charge. 

Losing 2 soul charge and retaining one doesn't hurt that deck, it didn't rely on soul charge as much as Hoban-dolls did. It has a good monster basis, this list basically gave them even more consistency with 3 ROTA.

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Brandon Wigley    3438

 

 

They do not have to worry about the constant threat of Super Poly as much, gained a 3rd ROTA, and still can fuck Shaddolls through their floodgates.

They also lost 2 Soul Charge, which means the power plays that the deck can make are greatly diminished. Not to mention, while the deck is consistent as heck, it is also extremely linear and they run a low monster count and everything is really puny attack wise. A well timed Vanity's can mean trouble for the Satellar player.

 

the optimal satella decks mained 2 Soul charge. 

Losing 2 soul charge and retaining one doesn't hurt that deck, it didn't rely on soul charge as much as Hoban-dolls did. It has a good monster basis, this list basically gave them even more consistency with 3 ROTA.

The optimal build played 3 of the best card in the game, sorry you were uninformed.

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+Urthor    10227

I guarantee he's thought that 2 soul charge is optimal for the past month simply because that's how many Alyx played at the ARG

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+scuzzlebutt    23495
God damn slammed so hard

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DarthRevan    2

Artifact variant post NECH looks good for its ability to use sanctums to clear scales in conjunction with dragon and any other main decked spell/trap hate. Will probably have an issue with BA which could very well turn out to be the best deck.

 

A possible fire target for Grysta is inari fire which doesn't do much when sent to grave, but at least if you draw it you can make a rank 4 or a synchro play with falco. The other route is to play more core which gives easier access to star eater (falco + core) and leo (GUB + core) and can also be used to make Grysta and Shek as well as recycle the fusion spells. Huge downside is that you have to draw it and it is a trap card so it is slow.

 

As for right now, now that soul charge and super poly are at one how should we go about playing the BA match-up? Both those cards were very important to how we played against them. 

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gm jack    5

In my testing I try to force out their back row as fast as possible, while trying to force them into their extra deck. Once a fusion can get down uncontested, we we punish their inferior options, and force them to find a suitable trap on top of the deck to deal with it. It's probably not optimal, but I found sitting back and trying to grind was a losing battle, given they generate more advantage, run more, better traps and thin the deck to find them faster.

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DarthRevan    2

Sounds good if you get it early and your deck does not need its traps but then again, BA does play a copious amount of monarchs...

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atem16    283
Yeah true and if people run shaddoll dragon they can just pop it via math trap stun probably would be better so hard trying to figure out What to do with this deck before regionals ba is the only deck I am worried about

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dota-pro    81

BA matchup is pretty hard due to how many tribs they run on top of dante and the Malbranche. Outs to karma cut/wind blast/things that go around winda and Monarchs/Vanity Fiend are what you really need to look out for.

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Onion    12

Yeah true and if people run shaddoll dragon they can just pop it via math trap stun probably would be better so hard trying to figure out What to do with this deck before regionals ba is the only deck I am worried about

 

Well trap stun is really good right now.  If BA is running 3 stuns which in testing has been amazing, then Artifact builds suffer greatly. Have you tried main decking 3 stuns in shaddolls?  Also someone mentioned earlier how Core can allow construct to add Fusion back to our hand, this way, if they do bounce construct at least we can fusion again latter.  Maybe we can do something with two gorz and glow up. 

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atem16    283

so with ba on the rise could veiler be used in here? I mean i understand how good ba is because vanitys fiend and majestys fiend will rape us but veiler hitting first turn tgu/math/deneb can really good and disrupt their tempo if they dont have a good follow up

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eNtitY~    53

Thoughts on decree vs ba?

After getting wrecked by BA this weekend I've been trying to figure solutions out.

 

Decree would be great but you would want 2-3 and could get cloggy to effectively get it in time, but I might try it out.

 

I was doing Patrick's build but now I think I'll probably do the Artifact variant. Currently I'm unsure about Book of Moon, Double Cyclone (I usually love having this card) and Felis. I main deck them all, I also went to Veilers instead of BTS for more light targets. Might try and fit in a Chaos Sorc since I would have 5 lights. 

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Gabe3Vino    77

Mask of Restrict is actually just super strong. You should only be losing to infinite backrow with no outs at all, and Stormforth + Raiza/Caius.

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atem16    283
I'm really having a hard time with ba and like they're still getting 3 more unknowns and I'm not sure el shaddoll fusion is our saving grace with them makes me doubt this decks future while ba will be strictly better

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Camel    11

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there. 

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eNtitY~    53

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there. 

Do you mostly skip over battle and only get aggressive once you've cleared all backrow?

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Camel    11

 

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there. 

Do you mostly skip over battle and only get aggressive once you've cleared all backrow?

 

Yes, for the most part. You will know when to be aggressive with attacking with Leo and when not to.

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Kritin    1

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there.

how don't see how u win the game with Leo, they can just answer it main phase 2 with compiles, karma, or wind blast.

#edit. Although it's still really good though just to get in some damage, it's helped me win quite a few games vs ba an Nutella. I think it should be played for the Nutella match specifically.

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eNtitY~    53

 

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there.

how don't see how u win the game with Leo, they can just answer it main phase 2 with compiles, karma, or wind blast.

#edit. Although it's still really good though just to get in some damage, it's helped me win quite a few games vs ba an Nutella. I think it should be played for the Nutella match specifically.

 

Well if you don't enter battle there is no main phase 2. 

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Kritin    1

Basically against BA, I just try to rush the safest possible Leo drop and win the game from there.

how don't see how u win the game with Leo, they can just answer it main phase 2 with compiles, karma, or wind blast.
#edit. Although it's still really good though just to get in some damage, it's helped me win quite a few games vs ba an Nutella. I think it should be played for the Nutella match specifically.
Well if you don't enter battle there is no main phase 2.
Make Leo but don't attack...seems really shitty to just stall with it. Eventually ur opponent will just go giga acid and out the Leo.

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Stormforth doesn't target which makes it one of the only outs BA has outside of mp2. That being said, Leo still has plenty of merit especially if you have a trap stun/royal decree to back it up.

 

This particular set up limits burning abyss to only two outs and they are both fairly awkward ones.

 

Set-Up: Leo + Trap Stun/Royal Decree

 

First Out: Stormforth + Monarch

Issues: BA do not normally main deck stormforth because there isn't really a time where they can't produce their own tribute fodder and main decking stormforth doesn't really help them against their bad match-up (StellarKnights). 

 

Second Out: Acid Golem + Giga Brilliant

Issues: BA had to make an acid golem which prevents them from special summoning their free monsters; not to mention the fact that they also left an extra deck monster on the field which makes Shaddoll fusion free. 

 

Obviously game one and the rest of the match-up for that matter is not in our favor, but Leo + trap stun/decree is a very solid and easy to create problem for BA

 

All things considered, some form of out-right trap negation should be incorporated into the Shaddoll main deck. This leaves us to debate the pros and cons of Trap Stun and Royal Decree and what kind of main deck answers BA has against either one. 

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