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Camel    11

DAD just steals so many games its such a powerful card. Probably the main reason Jordan and Parker manage to be ahead of the other LS shaddoll builds and securing top 16 slots last weekend.

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»Tygo    14120

Didn't you pretty much just say the definition of a winmoar card though?

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herbie ✌    1340

I think the part where you magically have a fist full of chaos monsters or soul charge to perfectly control your grave (at which point would have won you the game anyways) to make DAD live is the most questionable.

Also Emeral sucks, dont do that, you dont have the room for fluff like that.

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Camel    11

I think the part where you magically have a fist full of chaos monsters or soul charge to perfectly control your grave (at which point would have won you the game anyways) to make DAD live is the most questionable.
 

I mean I will gladly mention then that straight up drawing dad or dumping eclipse in early game can just straight up win you the game a lot of the time.

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I think the part where you magically have a fist full of chaos monsters or soul charge to perfectly control your grave (at which point would have won you the game anyways) to make DAD live is the most questionable.
 



Ah yes, if I was good at explaining shit this is what I would have said
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+Paraliel+    8032

I cut Dark Armed a long time ago I actually hate it. More often than not the card is dead or is a brick in your opening hand which is not something you want in this deck. Eclipse Wyvern is the same way. You don't even need those cards to win the match.

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I cut Dark Armed a long time ago I actually hate it. More often than not the card is dead or is a brick in your opening hand which is not something you want in this deck. Eclipse Wyvern is the same way. You don't even need those cards to win the match.


God damn so many people that can explain shit so much better then me.
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Squiddy    9172
no way! i agree wit zombieman dark arm is a win condition u practically win with him every time u see a way to dump wyvern. i think him and bls are truly staples in this deck . it can be dead but so can other carts like moraltach. if i were playin the baby dragons i would definitely play exlipse wyvern too i feel like crazy to not play him (|:|)
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+Paraliel+    8032

no way! i agree wit zombieman dark arm is a win condition u practically win with him every time u see a way to dump wyvern. i think him and bls are truly staples in this deck . it can be dead but so can other carts like moraltach. if i were playin the baby dragons i would definitely play exlipse wyvern too i feel like crazy to not play him (|:|)

I don't think it's even necessary. Sure, you resolve Dark Armed you win. But did you actually need the Dark Armed to win? In most cases, probably not. You already have a huge issue with bricks in the LS variant why even contribute to more?

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no way! i agree wit zombieman dark arm is a win condition u practically win with him every time u see a way to dump wyvern. i think him and bls are truly staples in this deck . it can be dead but so can other carts like moraltach. if i were playin the baby dragons i would definitely play exlipse wyvern too i feel like crazy to not play him (|:|)

I disagree with you so much, but god damn I love your profile pic so damn much


This deck already has enough win condition, so taking out 2 possible bricks and one win condition isn't bad.
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herbie ✌    1340

I think the "X deck has enough win conditions/draw/search power" argument is pretty poor.
Who actually makes a deck and immediately thinks that they dont want the deck to be any faster/more explosive?

My argument against DAD is the fact that there is a window of oppurtunity where he is live so its like ✗ while a card like Chaos Sorcerer is just switched on, more like ✗✓✓, in a variant that relies on Raiden/Lyla randomly milling and is also known for being slower to get onto Fusion you just have to be realistic about your odds of actually getting it on the field, also Chaos Sorcerer is still pretty fucking good.

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FaipDeOaid    169

On that note, someone paid me $180 for my list for Dallas and Columbus lmao. 


Pretty sure you didn't play Shaddoll for Columbus x:

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Nah I can resist the womanly charms my girlfriend of 2 years is a smoking 10/10. ;)

Also I don't see how you can not play DaD. Yes he's dead late game but you need to actually read Urthors post, you never make it to late game. If you've looked at Pats article you'll have realised that maybe sometimes you're just playing too conservative; chaos shaddolls is an aggressive deck and you should be playing it that way.

Anyway if you're playing DaD and mini dragons you should be playing at least 1 Wyvern. Wyvern (or foolish or math) + fusion/poly + a way to banish wyvern is a really easy OTK. If your opponent is stupid enough to leave an extra deck monster out turn one and you have Shaddoll Fusion + Black Dragon that's an otk too.

It's why I max out on copies of Black Dragon (made easier with lightsworn), heck I even tried a ridiculous otk build (toms) that played 3 poly, 3 fusion sage, 3 wyvern, 3 math (for wyvern), 3 of each chaos dragon and 3 ghost ship in order to banish the wyvern as quickly as possible.

It was really good and consistently OTKd out of nowhere, but vanity shits on it hard, so I can't really play it in a format where vanity is mained at 3 in most decks.

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+Urthor    10227

I disagree on running Wyvern if no Mathematician, but I'd play DAD in almost any Burst Rebirth build.  Burst Rebirth targeting falcon takes two dark monsters out of the graveyard to fix up Dark Armed Dragon, and generally gives you a bunch of plays that alter the graveyard count.  

 

That's pretty neat.  

 

DAD is a powercard you can make live using only Dark monsters, it's honestly an excellent card to draw in any opening hand because you can play into making it live correctly.  It's a risk if you're topdecking in the lategame, but topdecking in the lategame is, um, less than common, shall we say.  I'd rather make my deck much much more powerful in the early game where most Yugioh is played and games are decided tbh.  

 

The issue with wyvern is, if you're playing Raiden/Lyla and not Mathman, you're not foolishing and specifically hitting wyvern when you want to, you're hoping to randomly mill it using heart of the cards.  And if when you draw into it, it's a 1600 attack normal monster unless you get lucky and a) draw/resolve Shaddoll fusion, b) do this before getting a ton of darks in the grave, and c) draw a mini dragon/chaos monster to banish it (not as easy as it sounds if you cut chaos sorc, because lets face it, a 2300 attack normal monster in the mirror match is less than incredible)

 

This an equation I'm not 100% sure on, certainly with 3 Soul Charge DAD was less than perfect because Soul Charge and DAD had very noticeable negative synergies.  Soul Charge only fixed the grave in your main phase 1, and dropping Dark Armed Dragon in the turn you activate a soul charge is, to put it mildly, doublewin.   Atm though, it's my current approach to the deck.  

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DarthRevan    2

How many chaos monsters do you think it takes to justify running eclipse? I was thinking of cutting all the baby chaos dragons because in my testing they have almost always done more harm than good (usually due to awful mills that made them dead until it was too late to matter and when they were food I was probably going to win anyway). That would leave me with just 2 chaos sorcerers and 1 BLS which doesn't seem like too many. The other options are to play a 1-1 baby dragon ratio (like the guy at the ARG) or 2-1 white-black ratio but that may still be too many.

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I haven't really seen it talked about much but I wanted to address Shaddoll Core being main decked again. While I agree that drawing core isn't very good, I think that it should still be played. It makes your fusion plays safer, instantly grabbing your Fusion back when you mill it with construct or Squamata. Vs BA this is very important as it makes a pwwb or Karma Cut less effective. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

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I've been messing around with shaddoll core again. It's the same concept as downerd over Dante. If you put a downerd over dante then they can do whatever they want to the downerd, regardless, the Dante is going to the grave and it will float. PWWB and Karma Cut become less of a problem. Core is the same concept, if I send core with Construct then the Shaddoll Fusion is back in my hand and posing a threat again; they can PWWB or Karma Cut the Construct all they want, I will have the Shaddoll Fusion ready for a follow up play. The other options to send with construct are pretty mediocre compared to "add a shaddoll fusion to your hand"; like, when I send beast most of the time the only cards I really want to draw into are Poly/BLS/Shaddoll Fusion. 

 

It's also REALLY handy if you're playing poly. If you have a Fusion in your grave and use poly to make a Construct, send core to add the fusion back and then play fusion (because a good opponent who knows that you have a fusion in the grave and a small enough hand will take their chances and make an XYZ against you instead of being too scared of you topdecking another fusion)

 

Similarly: Squa + Light + Poly becomes "summon construct and add Shaddoll Fusion to your hand"; which if your opponent has an extra deck monster out against you, evens out the minus.  

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+Silver    1008

I've actually like core due to the fact that it can be milled by LS and get Fusion back when I haven't drawn it.

 

In very extreme cases, I had to summon Math, mill squa and then mill fusion. Then Arma or a 2nd methman to dump another squa and then mill core and then get fusion. But its very rare but very handy.

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Camel    11


In very extreme cases, I had to summon Math, mill squa and then mill fusion. Then Arma or a 2nd methman to dump another squa and then mill core and then get fusion. But its very rare but very handy.


I've done something similar with 2 sinister shadow games.

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Dubkdad1    681


I'm sure he would sell his list for a blow or 2

 
 
Thanks, now I have an Orangeyes flashback and overwhelming nostalgia for old Duelistgroundz

Glasses go flying...sigh the old DGz.

My biggest problem here is that people are talking about lists and are indeed sharing them, just not with the forum. Whatever happened to showing skeletons of builds? I remember during ruler format, ppl were hype to discuss techs and cores they were using. Now it just seems everyone is "afraid" someone might take credit for their work. What am I missing here?
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+Urthor    10227

 

 

I'm sure he would sell his list for a blow or 2

 
 
Thanks, now I have an Orangeyes flashback and overwhelming nostalgia for old Duelistgroundz

Glasses go flying...sigh the old DGz.

My biggest problem here is that people are talking about lists and are indeed sharing them, just not with the forum. Whatever happened to showing skeletons of builds? I remember during ruler format, ppl were hype to discuss techs and cores they were using. Now it just seems everyone is "afraid" someone might take credit for their work. What am I missing here?

 

 

I mean yea I don't mind sharing skeletons, the issue is what skeletons are there to share, that you specifically want?
 

 

For Lightsworn/Math Shaddoll you have the skeleton laid out for you already pretty much.  Look at the deck that won the ARG, tweak.   

 

If you are talking about 40-60 card builds, well nobody has an ultra tier skeleton to post tbh, but Jeff's on ARG and Calvin's from the regional as well as Billy's are all skeletons to work off.

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The problem is any player that does well at an event immediately develops a self-hyped ego and they think everything they build is too godly to share with the masses. 

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902    1773

honestly, i think a big reason why nobody really wants to share their ideas and builds here is because of how the game has changed, not because they want "credit" for making something up (full house, +1, lightsworns, etc).

 

since the formats now are 3 months, there are only a limited events (not including ARGs) where you can show off your work before a deck becomes irrelevant or something comes along that will just change the meta. to consistently do well at events, you must be literally a step ahead of everyone else, and revealing your ideas here on DGZ doesn't help. i imagine patrick keeping his lightsworn list a secret for so long helped him do well at toronto since he was playing builds that weren't as good. jeff obviously breezed through his mirrors considering he was the only one playing dragon/mind crush, but you guys already obviously all know this.

 

the point is, expecting actual good people or anyone for that matter to post a good idea/tech/build isn't being realistic. why would they let everyone know about a card that could just steal a YCS/ARG? 

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Dubkdad1    681
Not trying to derail the thread. I'm just curious as to how people are fitting more shaddolls in their deck as well as multiple polymerization. What exactly are you sacrificing to make this adjustment? Is that sacrifice indeed worth it for the mirror? Is it really awesome to put several extra deck monsters on the field vs the mirror? Or to have ways to put multiples on the field? Holding all of those fusion cards in the mirror has got to suck when you have no way to tribute them off. Or does everyone just always have the clutch emptiness?

Edit**
@902
Lol? Then wtf are we doing then? I think the answer is that we are slowly peeling away the good players from posting ideas and are simply being fine with an "echo chamber". Like, every other idea is not breaking any ground. There a few gems like realizing that Core doesn't suck (most ppl knew this but were silent because no one else would be open about it), but no one is actually getting anywhere reading and contributing things we already know.

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eNtitY~    53

If you guys are running a deck with Upstarts do you typically side them out if you need to throw cards in Game 2/3? Sometimes I'm so non-committal to siding because I'm unsure. Usually 1 Sinister, maybe the foolish and some other spells like Charge etc... I'm usually afraid to side out shadolls at all - does anyone do that?

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