Jump to content
rap tap

regarding discovery of card choices

Recommended Posts

»Pengwan    7724

thing is, victor doesn't shitpost about it.

your warning to him is thus rescinded.


Yea he kinda does. post 8000 terrible cards that have 0 practical use, finds 1 card that ends up being good and says "not to toot my own horn...". Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

And you are not the be all end all that can rescind what other people say just because you disagree with it.
  • Upvote 4
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23495

posting terrible cards is not always shitposting

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Urthor    10227

making 3 posts per page of "hey guys look at this really terrible card" IS shitposting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I think the difference lies in if victor tests the cards he suggests. If he does, then you can't call it shit posting because he wouldn't share it if he didn't have results with the card
  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23495
also has nothing to do with testing
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23495
well testing can make a post good but it doesnt have to and it doesnt always
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23495
i do think victor has gotten a little more "in your face" about what he does but you guys should just rail on him for that. making a good post and making a post that convinces you to put a new card in your deck (or even change anything about what you are doing right now at all) are not one and the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

making 3 posts per page of "hey guys look at this really terrible card" IS shitposting.

 

he puts effort into breaking from the social norm that you obviously love enforcing.  shut up

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»victor    6400
I think a lot of grievances in this thread are in some sense, misplaced.
 

Good find Jeff?

I thought victor was the first one to mention it on here if I'm not mistaken.


As far as I know, Bazaar mentioned it as well.

In any case, people knew about it.


To be fair a lot of the stuff that you guys "attribute" to me, I don't think of,
and I too scour and vet OCG sites, TCGPlayer, ARG, CoreTCG, other message boards, going so
far as to read Facebook comments, etc. that inform my opinion and thought process.

I rarely if ever claim to be the first or only person to think of something, I'm unfortunately the
most vocal about it. And I admittedly have my agendas like pushing Fire Kings, etc. but yeah.

I think UltimateBuffalo is right that he may have thought of something before, but he doesn't post about it as often.
In fact, I feel like a lot of posters on here are really good, but lurk for some reason, or self-segregate themselves
to their self identified niches, like Telvin (Bujin), Vincent (Madolche), Calvin (Burning Abyss), StormWolf (Blackwings), Warthog (Sylvan), etc.

And beyond that, there's people like afr, harig07, Dr Cook, Sharpman, Baazar, etc. who I think post really well, but post so infrequently.

And people like Candela from whom I can learn something new.

--------

When these posters start to post more frequently, they get rewarded for it. See Chumlee's indepth posts on various areas, or Vincent's more recent posts, which are showered with green rep.

------------


I think the problem with DGZ is it's now far less of a discussion board where people actually discuss (see our shitty public Deck Garage, where only people with less 50 posts create new threads, when we want to see more threads like Garon's decks of old, see Windups and Prophecy) and much more of a place where competing "secret inner circles" lurk to gain insight for the next ARG or YCS.

Case in point, Patrick mostly just links us to his ARG content after the fact.

Joe Giorlando's Gigaplant combo video is the shining exception.

-----------------------

I think this proves my point more than anything else.

Name dropping a convo I had with Sam Pedigo (because that's gets me so much cred on here :().

Talking about DGZ,
 

People on here are generally (a) great players who don't actually post with any truth and are just on the website to keep tabs on group (b), the mid-tier sheep-minded players that are looking to learn and will be too convinced by what amounts to nothing more than a decent argument, even if it's in favor of a lesser position. There's really not much to be gained by posting as there's no real discussion as people won't adequately challenge my opinions, meanwhile, you'll have people lurking, learning without adding any value. I actually have an appreciation for the scrubs on Pojo that aren't afraid to challenge people such as myself, even if they don't know exactly why they like something or how to frame their argument, there's generally a reason they like the cards they do. Really the challenge is trying to help them communicate their position. Sometimes it's through polite discussion and others it's a more heated debate. Playing Inzektors without Sword at the 2012 WCQ? That's an idea that came from a stubborn poster on Pojo. It took me forever to come around as he was the only one, really, even on that site, taking that position. But boy was he right and man I should've gone to Worlds for the second straight year with that deck. I would've actually played the best deck at the event, too, and had extra experience with it.


I mean, it's like you guys want it both ways.

You guys lurk and don't discuss anything for strategic reasons, and later get all huffed up ITT
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

MY teammate invented/played Perfect Circle monarchs ( the whole fear monger/disc commander thing) like months before it became common knowledge

 

did you just miss the entire point of the thread? nobody cares

 

I think what he was trying to say was that some nerd in japan has probably thought of everything a decade before any of us, which is why it doesn't matter/is stupid to argue or talk about trivial shit like who thought of it first (or because no one cares.) He just could have worded it better.

 

 

more or less, and the point the other guy made, fact mate Ozzy is unknown to most people, they wouldn't care but if was a regular or whoever ZOMG so informative dude is psychic with great insight into the meta! It isn't rocket science. I mean online I played a deck that was pretty much cardforcard the same as Jeff Jones ARG YCS  winning one except mind crush sided and foolish. Most people figure stuff out at one point or another early on if they are familiar with the game so trying to claim Innovation when the decklists practically writes themselves and the game evolves at the pace it does is trivial.

 

Other people post on here that are not regulars with decks that shit all over many dgzers, but they don't get the recognition the usual DGZ darlings do. And yea that guy was on point about victor. People percieve sometimes he plays Yugioh Bingo, has all the cards listed out in front of him that he mentioned on every thread and when someone uses it in a tournament BINGO I did it it was me my idea mine Aren't I clever with my tech choices! so gets a bad rep for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»Pharaoh Atem    15769
One who less often contributes to threads with the explicit intent of being earnest and forthright has less right to have his opinion of "what makes a good poster" be taken seriously.

If you can't find a way to post worthwhile posts without keeping your precious secrets out of those posts, it may well be better for you to not post, than to post something pointless. No, telling a thread "you're all stupid" is not a worthwhile post. There's no fucking discussion to be had about an unsupported sentiment.


DG as a site cares less about your desire to keep secrets, and cares more about fostering worthwhile discussion.

If people don't WANT to discuss, they shouldn't fucking act like they want to discuss. If you don't want to offer some sort of substantive conversation, a discussion thread is NOT the place for you.

Forums are for talk, not for silence.



Forums are a venue for the sharing of opinion and discussion.

Someone who shares opinion earnestly, honestly, and without intent to worsen another's day - is always going to be a better "poster" than someone who can only say "you're doing it wrong" and then must shut up for the sake of secrets.

This is why victor is a good poster - you don't need to be right in a vacuum to be a good poster, especially since any coward can be silent most of the time and make two perfect posts a year. Being on-target is always a good thing, but being off-target is forgivable if you still manage to make the site a better fucking place.

And I won't lie, folks who behave like victor - nameless posters that just kindly, sensibly share their opinions and thoughts - are more valuable to DG than a beliggerent, asinine, hateful person would be, even if that person were the best player the game had ever had.



DG being willing to tell someone good at YGO to "shut up or fuck off" is not a bug, it is a feature.
  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Vincent210    510

I think the bigger problem here is the fact that it doesn't matter what a tech choice is, or how it is presented in a thread.

Most of the time, what influences people's opinions, reactions, and ultimately repping, is their opinion on the poster. 

If some fucking nooblord like me, with no credentials, out of the radar, and really a total nobody, shows up, and mentions X obscure tech choice, chances are I will be at best ignored, and at worst negged to oblivion. 

(PS, I use myself as an example since I don't want to point out any other players for being a noob, not as victimizing myself.)

 

However, if Hoban suddenly wins Toronto with Lightsworns in his shaddolls, everyone is suddenly shouting about how they always knew LS was the best Doll build. Yet, months before, a few lesser known members mentioned how they felt their LS builds were the strongest build, and were met with ridicule, and scorn; rather than the help to maybe expand on this idea, and explore the possibilities. It would even be possibele to have come up with a list very similar to Hoban's, as an example. 

 

Again, I hate to point fingers, and I mean absolutely no offense personally to anyone, but its seems people repping and even simply even acknowledging one another's ideas, and expanding upon them is starting to simply stem on popularity here on DG. I mean, incredibly influential people get away with making horse-shit one-liners in regards to posts with stuff like "x is shit.", and are showered in rep. Regardless of whether or not the hivemind really believes that that thing is actually shit or not, such posts are not something anyone should be making. If the card is something that truly is simply just retarded, then the poster should simply be ignored. Yet, if the card does have a tiny bit of merit, a 5 minute brainstorm explaining downsides about said tech is simply just much more useful to both the poster, and the person typing up the response. This should not be a flexible thing based on how much the community likes you as a person. 

 

This leads to the minority feeling abused, and worthless, and thus they want to feel vocal about this. Yet, 90% of the time, it simply sounds like a retard moaning about how "SEE! I TOLD YOU!".

The problem is that nobody cares, that it seems to be a sort of stigma to do so. This leads is what leads to most of the deck discussion threads to be as stagnant as they are. Ideas are quickly shot down, because they're not buy the "Gods of Yugioh", and the said "Gods" do not really want to post anything since it'd just result in massive leaching of their thoughts. 

 

In short, fanboying is simply disgusting, and is all the worse when done here, on DG. 

 

Uh... I don't mean to undermine your point through shallow anecdotal evidence, but my existence is literally the exception to your applied rule.

I'm like a mega-nobody who just hit DGz very recently with few posts, and already with just any applied argumentative effort I can both debate effectively with name players and drum up rep taking pretty much whatever position I chose.

I MADE A CARD DISCUSSION THREAD ABOUT D PRISON IN 2014 UNIRONICALLY AND GOT SHOWERED. I JUST MADE A ROCK STUN DECK IN THE GARAGE AND THE RESPONSE HAS BEEN ECSTATIC. (Disclaimer: I am not bragging in any sense of the word I'm am literally stunned by the fact that those are things that happened and mean to convey that poorly through caps lock)

 

Sometimes I worry that if you dress any opinion up with the right article references, academic writing, and force of personality that people here will give you a shot even when you don't deserve it. Which is sort of the opposite of your worry.  Having said that... As a normal human being like anyone else, I constantly grow and change my opinions. I've noticed that despite my sometimes hitting revelations and taking 180º spins on my positions I'll often see a cadre of the same people throwing rep my way. Like I've made fans or whatever. Maybe you're right, but the reality is less "this player won X number of events lets shower him" and more "this dude is kinda cool/funny/interesting" and people are sort of picked at random by the hive mind to be snowballed into visible personalities.

 

 

I think UltimateBuffalo is right that he may have thought of something before, but he doesn't post about it as often.
In fact, I feel like a lot of posters on here are really good, but lurk for some reason, or self-segregate themselves
to their self identified niches, like Telvin (Bujin), Vincent (Madolche), Calvin (Burning Abyss), StormWolf (Blackwings), Warthog (Sylvan), etc.

And beyond that, there's people like afr, harig07, Dr Cook, Sharpman, Baazar, etc. who I think post really well, but post so infrequently.

And people like Candela from whom I can learn something new.

--------

When these posters start to post more frequently, they get rewarded for it. See Chumlee's indepth posts on various areas, or Vincent's more recent posts, which are showered with green rep.

------------


I think the problem with DGZ is it's now far less of a discussion board where people actually discuss (see our shitty public Deck Garage, where only people with less 50 posts create new threads, when we want to see more threads like Garon's decks of old, see Windups and Prophecy) and much more of a place where competing "secret inner circles" lurk to gain insight for the next ARG or YCS.

Case in point, Patrick mostly just links us to his ARG content after the fact.

Joe Giorlando's Gigaplant combo video is the shining exception.

-----------------------

I think this proves my point more than anything else.

Name dropping a convo I had with Sam Pedigo (because that's gets me so much cred on here :().

Talking about DGZ,
 

People on here are generally (a) great players who don't actually post with any truth and are just on the website to keep tabs on group (b), the mid-tier sheep-minded players that are looking to learn and will be too convinced by what amounts to nothing more than a decent argument, even if it's in favor of a lesser position. There's really not much to be gained by posting as there's no real discussion as people won't adequately challenge my opinions, meanwhile, you'll have people lurking, learning without adding any value. I actually have an appreciation for the scrubs on Pojo that aren't afraid to challenge people such as myself, even if they don't know exactly why they like something or how to frame their argument, there's generally a reason they like the cards they do. Really the challenge is trying to help them communicate their position. Sometimes it's through polite discussion and others it's a more heated debate. Playing Inzektors without Sword at the 2012 WCQ? That's an idea that came from a stubborn poster on Pojo. It took me forever to come around as he was the only one, really, even on that site, taking that position. But boy was he right and man I should've gone to Worlds for the second straight year with that deck. I would've actually played the best deck at the event, too, and had extra experience with it.


I mean, it's like you guys want it both ways.

You guys lurk and don't discuss anything for strategic reasons, and later get all huffed up ITT

 

 

Like first let me say GUILTY AS SHIIIIIIT. Decks I want to event with like Burning Abyss or Shaddolls I practice and maintain theory on only by borrowing because I'm a poor college student who gains cards at such a slow pace it's difficult to put the bells and whistles in. And when I do, since I use selling cards to make ends meet, I have to turn decks around IMMEDIATELY to maximize profit. Madolche are the only thing I held onto for whatever reason and they became my pet project since they never became unplayable and I could still test in competitive environments and score wins. So one of the few things I will do on this site when I'm feeling it is inject the Madolche thread. I actually go to events and practice in real life competitively so I typically bring a lot more to the table than players (I'll leave em unnamed unless they manage to say someone stupid enough that I feel compelled to smite thee) that clearly only play online. This has become a little niche for me.

This is NOT, however, why I self-segregate or post rarely. The reason is simple, and is at the root of the majority of DGz issues with stagnation in threads.

People don't add anything even when you put in the work.

So yeah. The D-Prison thread. I decided to take the article detailing some applications of Magic's idea of tempo for yugioh an expand on it with a real world example familiar to everyone. It was half a dumbing down, half thinking out loud that I was hoping I could build on if I did a good enough job because I figured if my post was worthwhile, the discussion would come.

 

Nothing came. The thread was a ghost town with some "good job" posts and other posts so arbitrary I can't remember them. I took something I gained from a player being a "good poster" and helping me along in my understanding of the game and tried to pay the favor along to the community. But I didn't get shit out of it but green internet points. No worthwhile devil's advocates, no expansions on my ideas, no probing questions...

Why post with effort if no one else will return the favor?

DG being willing to tell someone good at YGO to "shut up or fuck off" is not a bug, it is a feature.

I laughed a great deal more than I probably should have. But believe me I appreciate this feature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SageRhapsody    272

Naw, dude. You're simply just a fucking amazing poster, and sometimes I wish I could make babbies with you.

As you said, you're literally the exception, because you're just great. And despite this "rule" as you so called it, people recognize greatness. 

 

To build up on that, the D. Prison thread you made, was in fact simply so well done, that there was really nothing else to say other than a pat on the back, and a compliment on the work well done.

You can't build on something that's already fundamentally solid. You managed to say everything that needed to be said, and summed it all up perfectly in that post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dango    824

 

thing is, victor doesn't shitpost about it.

your warning to him is thus rescinded.
 


Yea he kinda does. post 8000 terrible cards that have 0 practical use, finds 1 card that ends up being good and says "not to toot my own horn...". Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.

And you are not the be all end all that can rescind what other people say just because you disagree with it.

 

ILU <3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
~Deadborder~    5156

just to add on the whole idea of a lot of post response being based around the poster

me

I have absolutely zero credentials or shit like that, i started going to a locals within the past month, hell, most of the stuff I post about isn't really anything groundbreaking, it's like "hey guys look at Traptrix Dionaea, OCG people were using Myrmeleo so this looks good too" 

and yet a good chunk of the time people will praise me for it. i don't know how much is because of the content itself, how i present the content, or if it's because it's me that's presenting the content, but still



I guess what I'm trying to get at here is:
People reading posts, be open minded about what the person is posting, regardless of who it is. like, at least be willing to argue why you disagree with someone's post rather than just telling them to fuck off. i know it's hard but i think you can do it. ok i think some of you can do it.

People posting posts: MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT - I don't necessarily mean be the all-star yugiwhiz, but be able to actually back up your points so you don't just look like you're whining at people when they disagree. It also REALLY REALLY HELPS to be clear and concise with what you're trying to get across. Too many posts are *this close* to being good but get shat on because it's just a slog to get through to the actual point.


 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chaotrope    245

I think a lot of your appeal lies in your presentation, Deadborder. Personally, I find your posts hilarious. Nothing wrong with the content, but when you start talking about "spooks and treats" and making puns I just lose it. Just my opinion, but given your popularity on here I'd say I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brandon Wigley    3438

 

or when jono, brandon and i ran 2 ark and dprison in fire then everyone did it smh 2014

Full house <3

 

We ran full house in Atlanta (before Charlotte) but even then people were playing it online before that

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+Urthor    10227

 people were playing it online before that

 

/thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dirk    1956

It was a joke guys... I literally criticized someone for owning card choices then made the post to be ironic lol

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patrick Hoban    6364

I think discussion of all cards should be encouraged. Let people get shut down, but don't discourage people posting bad ideas. 9/10 ideas you have suck. Might as well start talking about them all so you can find the good one. 

 

You should hear the stuff I suggest to Desmond and Ben. Some of it is just awful. 

  • Upvote 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dirk    1956

One of the big reasons people care about who popularized a card choice is because you don't really get anything out of winning in this game outside of a relatively small amount of prizes for the time you put in, and attention. People want to feel important no matter what they are doing and this is one of the few ways you can do it in yugioh.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dirk    1956

I think discussion of all cards should be encouraged. Let people get shut down, but don't discourage people posting bad ideas. 9/10 ideas you have suck. Might as well start talking about them all so you can find the good one. 

 

You should hear the stuff I suggest to Desmond and Ben. Some of it is just awful. 

Daton comes up with some of the craziest ideas. If I hadnt been the conservative person that I am, he coulda ended up running Heros in fire/water format, or dragon rulers at ARG indy lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Patrick Hoban    6364

 

I think discussion of all cards should be encouraged. Let people get shut down, but don't discourage people posting bad ideas. 9/10 ideas you have suck. Might as well start talking about them all so you can find the good one. 

 

You should hear the stuff I suggest to Desmond and Ben. Some of it is just awful. 

Daton comes up with some of the craziest ideas. If I hadnt been the conservative person that I am, he coulda ended up running Heros in fire/water format, or dragon rulers at ARG indy lol

 

I still try and play Dragon Rulers and Desmond still tries to play Karakuris at every event we go to. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brandon Wigley    3438

 

 

I think discussion of all cards should be encouraged. Let people get shut down, but don't discourage people posting bad ideas. 9/10 ideas you have suck. Might as well start talking about them all so you can find the good one. 

 

You should hear the stuff I suggest to Desmond and Ben. Some of it is just awful. 

Daton comes up with some of the craziest ideas. If I hadnt been the conservative person that I am, he coulda ended up running Heros in fire/water format, or dragon rulers at ARG indy lol

 

I still try and play Dragon Rulers and Desmond still tries to play Karakuris at every event we go to. 

 

wind-ups mannnnn

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×