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Matt Bishop    2377

 

 

 

I would personally go with Eclipse now instead because of the utility there vs Dark Hole. Reset your Jus, dodge Veiler and out the flood gates. Normally I agree with going the other route but the utility is a bit more real with Eclipse. I am personally doing 3 Eclipse 3 Scolding.
If you're tired of getting wiped out by Dark Hole I would suggest to make them regret playing the card and go back to Gungnir or/and bank off Scolding.

I've tried the builds like that and I cannot stand opening a world of bricks like that. Frustrating to no end.

 

 

This is something I've always been curious about. When people mention bricking, what exactly do they mean? Let's say that there is 25 "core" cards to a Deck. When switching from one set of tech to another, without altering the "core" cards, how is it possible to brick? Also, are you switching out some of your "core" cards for different techs? It just seems to me, that a lot of people play a Deck one way, change their tech package, and then mention how often they're "bricking". Is this actually just the realization that the Deck bricks more often than one realizes because your parallax has changed, or is this just people taking too small a sample size and extrapolating it?

 

Or are you referring to the tweak in a build playing with Gungnir vs without Gungnir?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would personally go with Eclipse now instead because of the utility there vs Dark Hole. Reset your Jus, dodge Veiler and out the flood gates. Normally I agree with going the other route but the utility is a bit more real with Eclipse. I am personally doing 3 Eclipse 3 Scolding.
If you're tired of getting wiped out by Dark Hole I would suggest to make them regret playing the card and go back to Gungnir or/and bank off Scolding.

I've tried the builds like that and I cannot stand opening a world of bricks like that. Frustrating to no end.

 

 

This is something I've always been curious about. When people mention bricking, what exactly do they mean? Let's say that there is 25 "core" cards to a Deck. When switching from one set of tech to another, without altering the "core" cards, how is it possible to brick? Also, are you switching out some of your "core" cards for different techs? It just seems to me, that a lot of people play a Deck one way, change their tech package, and then mention how often they're "bricking". Is this actually just the realization that the Deck bricks more often than one realizes because your parallax has changed, or is this just people taking too small a sample size and extrapolating it?

 

Or are you referring to the tweak in a build playing with Gungnir vs without Gungnir?

 

I think a lot of people still don't really grasp the concept of 'Engine cards' and 'non-engine cards'

 

I'm pretty sure there's an ARG article on the subject somewhere but people constantly side out cards from their main engine without replacing them with engine cards and thus make their deck more inconsistent. I think most people are cutting cards other then their old techs to fit in the new ones.

 

 

 

It's based on the idea that there are some hands with core cards you can play but are less than optimal. For example, I think Mike mentioned how something like being able to play Ju + Unicore and nothing else counts as a brick hand in the mirror even though putting those two cards on board against any other deck is solid.

 

For example if you play lance, you would ideally want to be able to get a djinn lock and protect it with the lance. If you can't get there then that lance could feel worse than some other tech like veiler which has more general applications. Stuff like scolding and lance feel pretty awful when you're going second facing a djinn lock. I'm not advocating for or against those cards, but I wanted to try to illustrate what people mean by "bricking."

 

This is what I meant by that 110%.  Like those cards generally do not help advance your gamestate except when you have Djinn lock.  Usually when you do not have Djinn lock, those cards would be better served as something else; ie. an out to lock, Veiler, Maxx C, whatever.  I think that was the point of my comment, sorry perhaps I should have expanded on the thought.

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»TS Fearless    7068

Also frankly me and a lot of you just plain suck compared to some Nekroz players.  If you're actually just a worse Yugioh player than your opponent, you shouldn't be avoiding coin flips you should be embracing them.  If I'm playing someone I know has a better deck and is a better player than me, I WANT to have that match decided on a coin-flip thanks.
 
It might seem sporting to just roll over, play interactive Yugioh and let them walk over you, but when you're playing for keeps for worlds invites that's not the attitude you want to have.  If you have the mindset of "oh I'll just let the better player win," that's so deeply flawed.  It shows you really just don't care about the win that much and are treating a worlds invite like locals.  
 
There's three different ways to play Yugioh in my mind.  Playing to have as much fun as possible.  Playing to improve as much as possible.  And playing to maximise your win rate.  And whilst playing solely to improve as much as possible is a perfectly valid thing to do at locals, regionals, YCS ARGs you name it, there's one time and place you should be shelving that and doing whatever it takes to boost your win rate, and that's at the WCQ.   


That sounds like the attitude of someone who just came back to the game 2 weeks before the WCQ, barely knows how to play Nekroz and doesn't have time to learn it and has decided that's his best way to victory. If you truly believe you're better than the majority of Nekroz players there (and aren't fooling yourself) then why would you want the games to be decided on a coin flip? You're speaking from the perspective of someone who knows he isn't very good at the mirror and is expecting to go to Worlds that way, knowing they just have no chance unless they Djinn whenever they can and hope to get lucky. I would hope that's not most of us. If you think you're that bad at the mirror you should probably just pick up a different deck unless you randomly smash rogue with Nekroz every single time. But if you know Nekroz well enough to do that then mirror shouldn't be very hard for you either. There might be 1 or 2 people at the WCQ I would actually feel like I would want to coin flip because they're better than me. Is that really worth drawing Djinn? Remember it's still a coin flip, not a guaranteed win.

Djinn might be needed anyways despite all this but I don't understand this logic.

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I wouldn't play Djinn if I didn't play Scolding.


Feeding the community the generous advice to avoid coin flip mirrors for "fairer, more skilled" mirrors at the WCQ...

Hmm Nice try but think some guy already tried this at one of them ARG locals thingys..
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»Noelle    5848

 

I wouldn't play Djinn if I didn't play Scolding.


Feeding the community the generous advice to avoid coin flip mirrors for "fairer, more skilled" mirrors at the WCQ...

Hmm Nice try but think some guy already tried this at one of them ARG locals thingys..

 

 

Did he say to it was to make the mirror "fairer, more skilled?" No he did not you're putting words in people's mouths, obviously the goal here is to make our chances of winning the highest possible. This might have been avoided if he made a more expansive post than just posting a conclusion without the base to the conclusion (aka made a better post,) but by now I think we're all aware of the points leading up to said conclusion:

 

  • Scolding outs everything while the rest of the counter-Djinn outs to not 
  • Because of this, even when you do open Djinn + Protection it's still something like a coin flip that your protection matches up with their outs
  • Even though this is a coin flip of a coin flip (the chances of them A. seeing the out times the chances of B. it being an out that your isn't covered in your auto-insurance,) DD Warrior Lady/Bull Blader are still gaining ground which means:
  • It's hard to search Valk and Djinn lock. Those guys also make Lance shitty and the whole point of Djinn lock protection is an auto-win so if you're not doing that you're not winning. 
  • So then if Lance isn't good against the majority of the outs (assuming people shift towards monster outs,) and if you're also not playing Scolding, then you literally don't have protection outside of Valk and it defeats the purpose of that auto-win in the first place and circles you all the way back around to the original coin flip. IDK about you, but having more than a 50% chance of winning is better than having a 50% chance of winning

Might have missed a point, haven't been playing much lately but I think I got the bases covered. Please don't post garbage like that again, especially if you're just trying to randomly derogatory in a thread centered around theoretical discussion. 

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Patrick Hoban    6364
Oh don't get me wrong. You should absolutely try to coinflip with me. It's by far your best chance.

I just have no interest in doing it as I'm actually trying to have a strategy that will take me to Japan.
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McGinty    290
Mistake is bad
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Warthog    165
Lose 1 Turn would be interesting alongside Emptiness as a clencher. Mistake sounds a bit more risky because you need to be able to potentially get back after a Raigeki or Dark Hole and they still may have the nuts anyways. I will test this if I get to go to LA regional next week in preparation for Nashville as it sounds it could have potential.

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Suuwo    647

Lose 1 Turn would be interesting alongside Emptiness as a clencher. Mistake sounds a bit more risky because you need to be able to potentially get back after a Raigeki or Dark Hole and they still may have the nuts anyways. I will test this if I get to go to LA regional next week in preparation for Nashville as it sounds it could have potential.

"Activate this card only if you currently control no Special Summoned monsters. During the turn a monster is Special Summoned, negate its effects. If an Effect Monster(s) is Special Summoned in Attack Position: Change it to Defense Position."

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Warthog    165
Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah I am retarded and didn't read the card. I will try something like Mistake then. Maybe I can add Gungnir to stop from the play I was speaking of earlier with Dark Hole or Raigeki wrecking you with your own Mistake up. Let you guys know how it goes if I get to go next weekend.

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Oh don't get me wrong. You should absolutely try to coinflip with me. It's by far your best chance.
I just have no interest in doing it as I'm actually trying to have a strategy that will take me to Japan.


Exactly which is why the intention behind your one liner post just confuses me, as I don't believe for a second you are still playing the scolding build as that cat is well out of the bag which is basically why it was good in the first place.
Now everybody is main decking multiple hand traps along with a ROTA out automatically making lance unplayable whilst hand traps (Maxx) make scolding + djinn even more coin flippy as if your maxed you nearly have to still djinn as otherwise the scolding is a big minus you must try get value out of without dying(LP cost).

Also with how much of an advantage going 2nd in the mirror is, scolding basically takes that advantage away as if you don't go djinn again the scolding isn't doing much if anything for you.

This is why I feel your intentions behind your post were to either
A) Have us sheep take out djinn altogether
B) Have us sheep play djinn + scolding -"auto-wins" "insert buzzword".Dek

So just for your benefit basically like your lightsworns ploy last year.
But if your so good I can't see why putting in such effort for tiny edges over gullible players is necessary?

Unless I'm conspiring for nothing and you legit think scolding is still good somehow from playing too many scolding cancer mirrors with leveretts I don't know
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i think u are overanalyzing it bro

 

the amount of ppl who actually frequent the dgz nekroz deck discussion is actually abyssmally low. if he wanted to throw ppl off he'd just write an arg article instead

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I wouldn't play Djinn if I didn't play Scolding.


Feeding the community the generous advice to avoid coin flip mirrors for "fairer, more skilled" mirrors at the WCQ...
Hmm Nice try but think some guy already tried this at one of them ARG locals thingys..
 
Did he say to it was to make the mirror "fairer, more skilled?" No he did not you're putting words in people's mouths, obviously the goal here is to make our chances of winning the highest possible. This might have been avoided if he made a more expansive post than just posting a conclusion without the base to the conclusion (aka made a better post,) but by now I think we're all aware of the points leading up to said conclusion:
 
  • Scolding outs everything while the rest of the counter-Djinn outs to not 
  • Because of this, even when you do open Djinn + Protection it's still something like a coin flip that your protection matches up with their outs
  • Even though this is a coin flip of a coin flip (the chances of them A. seeing the out times the chances of B. it being an out that your isn't covered in your auto-insurance,) DD Warrior Lady/Bull Blader are still gaining ground which means:
  • It's hard to search Valk and Djinn lock. Those guys also make Lance shitty and the whole point of Djinn lock protection is an auto-win so if you're not doing that you're not winning. 
  • So then if Lance isn't good against the majority of the outs (assuming people shift towards monster outs,) and if you're also not playing Scolding, then you literally don't have protection outside of Valk and it defeats the purpose of that auto-win in the first place and circles you all the way back around to the original coin flip. IDK about you, but having more than a 50% chance of winning is better than having a 50% chance of winning
Might have missed a point, haven't been playing much lately but I think I got the bases covered. Please don't post garbage like that again, especially if you're just trying to randomly derogatory in a thread centered around theoretical discussion.

Didn't want to reply to this nonsense but am bored so..
My "fairer skilled mirror" was an ironic reference to hobans well known djinn gentlemans agreement so sorry if your misinformed.

2) No scolding does not out Everything as you put it, it outs ONE card only. This is important now because since everyone knows now djinn +1 set = scolding they just wait to draw the second piece which can be a second out mst even Denko(less likely g1).
This is amplified more by the fact g2/3 scolding gets even worse as you are giving use for their side deck denkos or even dark holes/msts.

3) Making up fake % of them outing djinn isn't an argument especially when lance was used in it which just showed how behind you must be as at least djinn for sure outs one card but like come on why on earth would even the worst of players play lance now when literally every list since Bochum has played 3 ROTA + an out.

Lance shouldn't even be a discussion really yet I'm garbage posting a page that still has lance along with Lose 1 Turn? In a nekroz deck discussion diseased all over it?

Um ok..

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i think u are overanalyzing it bro
 
the amount of ppl who actually frequent the dgz nekroz deck discussion is actually abyssmally low. if he wanted to throw ppl off he'd just write an arg article instead


Yes I agree and hope you're right.

But I can't see how scolding would even be a decent meta call right now from someone as ahead of the curve as Pat always is. So if my conspiracy is just daft then Someone enlighten me so as to how scolding can be a legitimate suggestion in an hand trap infested meta!?

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+Urthor    10230

Because he hasn't found anything better?

 

Also it's hard to take a litmus test of the majority of Nekroz players who aren't necessarily with the times.

 

Or, he just plays scolding beside his answer because scolding's still pretty gewd on its own.   

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oliver?    690

 

This is important now because since everyone knows now djinn +1 set = scolding they just wait to draw the second piece which can be a second out mst even Denko(less likely g1).

 

ya ok so you pass hoping to draw the extra piece, then they otk you with scolding through valk

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Elements    569

Well this thread has been extremely helpful to me... so much salt and ego. Come one guys...

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oliver?    690

Well this thread has been extremely helpful to me... so much salt and ego. Come one guys...

have you even made a post im pretty sure we aren't here to serve you

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Elements    569

 

Well this thread has been extremely helpful to me... so much salt and ego. Come one guys...

have you even made a post im pretty sure we aren't here to serve you

 

 

pretty sure these threads are here more for helping people understand and learn rather than chatting shit to each other and throwing hand bags around. 

 

this place has really gone down hill over the past 2ish years. its cool if you would rather be a nob head and be rude to some one who just wants to learn.

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oliver?    690

 

 

Well this thread has been extremely helpful to me... so much salt and ego. Come one guys...

have you even made a post im pretty sure we aren't here to serve you

 

 

pretty sure these threads are here more for helping people understand and learn rather than chatting shit to each other and throwing hand bags around. 

 

this place has really gone down hill over the past 2ish years. its cool if you would rather be a nob head and be rude to some one who just wants to learn.

 

what i mean is, you're complaining about the thread without actually offering anything to improve it, as if it's everybody else's responsibility except your own

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Elements    569

 

 

 

Well this thread has been extremely helpful to me... so much salt and ego. Come one guys...

have you even made a post im pretty sure we aren't here to serve you

 

 

pretty sure these threads are here more for helping people understand and learn rather than chatting shit to each other and throwing hand bags around. 

 

this place has really gone down hill over the past 2ish years. its cool if you would rather be a nob head and be rude to some one who just wants to learn.

 

what i mean is, you're complaining about the thread without actually offering anything to improve it, as if it's everybody else's responsibility except your own

 

 

i dont have anything to offer the thread lol. i literally started playing the game again saturday night after going uk nats to spend time with people and got pulled back in. so yea, in that side of things, guess you could say im a leech but everyones gotta start somewhere and im pretty sure me adding fuck all to the thread is better than just salting the fucker up. its irrelevant anyway. our dialogue is irrelevant aswell. not like it will spark a peace revolution haha. im sure there will be what i need on duelrocks channel or something. peace.

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+Urthor    10230

I mean the question is, what is the edge you suddenly need to get ahead in the mirror.  Mistake in the last page is honestly the first genuinely new thing I've heard in awhile, frankly atm my feel is that people are doing really similar things like apeing the scolding lock plan, running mind crush/emptiness/maxx/veiler, not so much lancea because DDWL is not a thing, and doing really similar things to what they've been doing the last two months.  

 

 

Is using cards liek mistake as pure floods, floods that hurt both players but you choose when to flip them, a good idea?  idk

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Mr Dragon    312
What about Thunder King? If you need to get rid of it you can Xyz or tribute it away. Mistake has more of a tendency to stick there even if they out your board

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am i reading wrong or did pat not actually say was good? he simply said that he wouldn't play djinn without scolding, but that's not saying scolding is still king with djinn, but that djinn is shit without scolding, which is fair given that rota builds that everyone is playing has made djinn really terrible.

 

if u've played with scolding at all i think you'll also realize that scolding is shit without djinn. so now ur playing 2 cards in your deck that aren't good unless u draw them together, basically hoping to never draw scolding when u don't open djinn.

 

so its fair that he'd say that he wouldn't rely on it to bring him to worlds

 

in fact the only thing he advocated is that u should rely on the coin flip vs him cuz if he's playing a skill game with u, u will lose, nothing about advocating scolding in a format of hand traps etc

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