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website is bad    2172

They weren't for a awhile, if they have been more recently that's cool.

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Some Thoughts

 

Vote Modification than can affect MYLO/LYLO should never be allowed. It is unfair and highly advantageous for either side. Whenever a role like this is included it has to have not during mylo/lylo clause (JC idc if you thought it would be a good play. The role essentially punished scum for attempting to punish town's mistakes and basically rewarded town for leaving votes out at mylo and I am really glad town lost that game because scum getting punished for playing correctly would have been crap) or the mod has step in and balance it (ie juan's vote count for antag and vice versa) 

 

Not sure what to make about no healer/cop. I feel like it just promotes bad play in general. Punishes scum for role hunting while being almost unfair to town if scum claims it (since there wont be a cc there is no trade off). Previous games have instilled massive paranoia about the inclusion of said roles. I feel like in some form these roles should be staple (even if nerfed hardcore). Ppl's thoughts? 

 

Still hate masons as a role and don't see a scenario where town masons is fair to scum (neutral is fine so long as it isn't town sided). 

 

Kinda want to add a rule that says you cannot post phrasing from you role pm ie saying you are Vt is fine, but not "you have no special powers." 

 

Auto-confirmable roles such as vote modification and/or vig shot should be limited and in the former case mod should not post a vote count so town can confirm it. I mean we got rid of ability tables for the same reason. I kind of want to prevent vig shots from being claimed. It already benefits town to have a killing role, no need to give them a self-confirming town on top of it. 

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+Gemstone Mine    2596

Who the fuck cares if people fuck up because they start role hunting and there isn't a healer/scanner. You shouldn't be relying on there being one in the first place, or role hunting as a means of finding scum anyways. m

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+Gemstone Mine    2596

Also worth noting scum can only safely claim scanner/healer if they know for sure there isn't one, which is a problem with what information scum is being given if they know there isn't a scanner but town doesn't know, not with there not being one in the first place.

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Also worth noting scum can only safely claim scanner/healer if they know for sure there isn't one, which is a problem with what information scum is being given if they know there isn't a scanner but town doesn't know, not with there not being one in the first place.


If scum is going to die claiming that on the block either buys them a day or outs the role for teammates. If they luck into it because it isn't in the game, town is at a disadvantage as it's really hard to go against and unccd claim

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confuse rei    5608

I am trying really hard not to be mean about this post

 

Basically your whole post can be summed up to

 

'I play like this and that way is perfect, so everything straying away from it is bad and unhealthy'

 

1. Vote modification isnt unfair. Some can be, but most have the 'this ability isnt valid in mylo/lylo'. If it was unfair for anyone it was for Juan/Anta, who were neutrals and had one more obstacle on their way, but even so they made the best out of essentially a handicap and if they had more confidence in themselves they would have won. It wasnt unfair for you, they set up a trap with what they had.

 

2. No healer/cop isnt unhealthy, it punishes scum if they play badly in the first place. It is like your 3rd or 4th game that you just punt consecutive NKs and kill random people over actual threats to the scum team because guys, its a power role! Its not the healer not existing thats bad, its you.

As for the uncc'd claim, that scenario is too specific. Some town may look away but good players shouldnt just forget about x scummy player just because he claimed something. And its not exactly mandatory for me as town power role to out myself when i see scum claiming my role if i can kill him in other means. No claim should ever make you confirmed town, that is mostly limited fantasy/bad plays on the community's part both as players and game hosts. Lots of times town has paid the price of 'Hey, he claimed this, lets leave him alone!' and he turns out to be scum. If that happens, its town's fault, not design's fault. Plus scum still has to fight the 'oh i claimed healer and i survived the nk!' assuming game doesnt end that same day.

 

That said, I would agree that healer should generally be included just because it may give popular Nk targets a single day more to play, it gets frustrating to die N1/2 game after game and then just watch when others go the distance all the time and get to play more.

 

3. Town masons are fair in every other world but yours. O, confirmed masons! Scary! No. Especially in bigger games. Obviously noone is going to include masons in 8 player games.

 

4. I dont see how that would be a problem, and it hasnt until now. The only problem i can see with this is twatlogic, and if you die from twatlogic its your fault mostly for not exposing it.

 

5. Other than vig(and even that I'd argue as we've seen poison), no other role is auto confirmable as town. Vote modification doesnt mean you are town, scum/neutrals have gotten plenty of vote modification roles, if someone sees someone with a vote modification and go oh, he must be town!, thats not the ability's fault, its the player's.

 

As for vig i tried to make vig but you cant claim it in country mafia and we just got 25 ridic questions about it(e.g. I cant claim vig, but can i claim that i can pick a player and he dies a day later, that isnt vig its poison!) and 50 tries to abuse rules to 'claim but not claim' which got frustrating(love u zappy). If people were grown ups about it it should definately be an option but most people would rather abuse rules to win rather than respect it. I do agree with that and it should be that way in theory but in practice i cant see it happening.

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I am trying really hard not to be mean about this post

 

Basically your whole post can be summed up to

 

'I play like this and that way is perfect, so everything straying away from it is bad and unhealthy'

 

1. Vote modification isnt unfair. Some can be, but most have the 'this ability isnt valid in mylo/lylo'. If it was unfair for anyone it was for Juan/Anta, who were neutrals and had one more obstacle on their way, but even so they made the best out of essentially a handicap and if they had more confidence in themselves they would have won. It wasnt unfair for you, they set up a trap with what they had.

 

2. No healer/cop isnt unhealthy, it punishes scum if they play badly in the first place. It is like your 3rd or 4th game that you just punt consecutive NKs and kill random people over actual threats to the scum team because guys, its a power role! Its not the healer not existing thats bad, its you.

As for the uncc'd claim, that scenario is too specific. Some town may look away but good players shouldnt just forget about x scummy player just because he claimed something. And its not exactly mandatory for me as town power role to out myself when i see scum claiming my role if i can kill him in other means. No claim should ever make you confirmed town, that is mostly limited fantasy/bad plays on the community's part both as players and game hosts. Lots of times town has paid the price of 'Hey, he claimed this, lets leave him alone!' and he turns out to be scum. If that happens, its town's fault, not design's fault. Plus scum still has to fight the 'oh i claimed healer and i survived the nk!' assuming game doesnt end that same day.

 

That said, I would agree that healer should generally be included just because it may give popular Nk targets a single day more to play, it gets frustrating to die N1/2 game after game and then just watch when others go the distance all the time and get to play more.

 

3. Town masons are fair in every other world but yours. O, confirmed masons! Scary! No. Especially in bigger games. Obviously noone is going to include masons in 8 player games.

 

4. I dont see how that would be a problem, and it hasnt until now. The only problem i can see with this is twatlogic, and if you die from twatlogic its your fault mostly for not exposing it.

 

5. Other than vig(and even that I'd argue as we've seen poison), no other role is auto confirmable as town. Vote modification doesnt mean you are town, scum/neutrals have gotten plenty of vote modification roles, if someone sees someone with a vote modification and go oh, he must be town!, thats not the ability's fault, its the player's.

 

As for vig i tried to make vig but you cant claim it in country mafia and we just got 25 ridic questions about it(e.g. I cant claim vig, but can i claim that i can pick a player and he dies a day later, that isnt vig its poison!) and 50 tries to abuse rules to 'claim but not claim' which got frustrating(love u zappy). If people were grown ups about it it should definately be an option but most people would rather abuse rules to win rather than respect it. I do agree with that and it should be that way in theory but in practice i cant see it happening.

Not really. I just feel like there are some things that either by design or unintentionally town gets rewarded for. for doing nothin. 

 

1. I disagree with you here. Essentially scum got punished for attempting to win the game by playing correctly. What is scum suppose to do there? Not hammer? It basically punished scum for playing correctly. I am fine with the overall concept of it, just not at mylo/lylo. Point on the mylo lylo clause we agree on. The only way that was disadvantageous for town was that it robbed them of a vote and created mylo. 

 

2. I don't know why scum doesn't do this more often especially if they are going to die. Maybe its just dgz meta, but I mean come on, the math isn't hard. There is no disadvantage in a last ditch claim. I disagree with the its always town's fault. Circumstance matters. An uncc'd cop claim is very hard to go against and on top of that the only real justification you have to kill him is at a point where he should not be alive. 

 

3. My prob with Masons and other roles where the role can be confirmed easily is its basically a freebie that doesn't reward or punish play. Town's job isn't to worry about masons or neutrals so they leave it to scum and only deal with it if both shouldn't be alive at some point. Its not exactly good for scum to just not deal with them hoping for that. On top of that, scum can't even claim it due to how disadvantageous it is to scum. 

 

4. Its just something I don't like in general since it kinda falls under the posting your role pm thing. 

 

5. Again this is more about not giving town basically a freebie for nothing. Yes it doesn't confirm alignment, but it does confirm role. 

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»Logic    2033
Cop is so skilless and the only skill about it is fake claiming it and you can argue it's even more skill based by having the illusion of one. Make getting scans have some semblance of skill imO

I think doc is a good rOle.

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website is bad    2172

i personally like tying cop to something rather than just pointing at a person and learning what they are. votes especially are an interesting way to change up the role.

 

regular doctor is fine but imo sometimes it could be swapped with jailer (add the roleblock, messaging ability at host's discretion) to just change that up a bit, shift the focus away from follow the power role a bit, just make people think further.

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wrw.chrono    155
I really liked the parity cop role. I've only actually seen it in play once when I was watching DM but it seems more skillful than just standard scanner.

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I really liked the parity cop role. I've only actually seen it in play once when I was watching DM but it seems more skillful than just standard scanner.

its not particularly. It essentially nets you no scan n0 and you use that on an obv player or one that is going to die soon. 

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Cop is so skilless and the only skill about it is fake claiming it and you can argue it's even more skill based by having the illusion of one. Make getting scans have some semblance of skill imO

I think doc is a good rOle.

I don't think playing cop is skillless. However, I think it is a bigger swing here than it is on DM due to role flips on death. Town typically gets a lot more info in the dgz meta than in the DM meta. However, roles are more basic and DM is more intensive on reads given the lack of info (but ultimately less creative) 

 

Unlike Masons or hypno, the cop actually has to survive and find ways to push his reads without alerting scum. The real question is whether cop is too powerful in our meta and whether its even necessary. I don't think it is (idk if someone did a stat or not, but how many games was a standard cop even relevant to winning outside of confirming himself as town) 

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+rei+    34627

it's called a policy lynch my dear scumlord


AHAHAHAHAAHAH dg doesn't believe in policy lynches dude

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+Malcolm    4600

it is actually really strange considering the extreme reliance on x number of players to win the game for town

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it is actually really strange considering the extreme reliance on x number of players to win the game for town

Part of the issue is ppl not wanting to shoulder blame and/or look scummy for pushing their thoughts so they just sheep whoever is confident or willing to do that

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majority modkills ban k? if you want someone modkilled wait for the day to fucking end

Probably a good idea in general. Only issue I can see is scum abusing it to end the day without contributing. 

 

ie 5 town vote player x for the lynch and 2 scum bw with 1 post vote for majority. 

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TFJ    618
No reveal games are just stupid.

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