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Someguy

Into the Void Yosenju- An unorthodox build

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Someguy    10

xNd4D3a.png
 
Hi, first time noob here. I've built a lot of antimetas, mainly all original ones, (a very few good, most terrible) so I'm foraying into archetypes; it isn't a good idea to limit oneself to 'my own greatest creation is teh best' and such.
 
Basically, the idea behind yosenju is to summon a ton of yosenjus and add a ton of pressure, attacking directly. After trying out a standard yosenju build, one of the problems I had was that I had too many redundant cards. For example, getting too many floodgates. It isn't just a problem of not getting a win condition, but also that the floodgates overlap in certain areas, lowering their utility. This also goes for removal cards. A lot of builds run 1 for 1 traps as well as mass removal. That can be dead quite often, as removal often overlaps; a set Dprison won't help much after Dark Holing. I wanted to maximize each card's utility, in as many stages of the game as possible, hence maxing mass removal and minimizing one for ones. There are monsters that don't care about destruction, but I try to kama 1 them and rely on floodgates to prevent opponent's making a comeback later.
 
Which brings me to floodgates. I only main 5, 3 L1T, Emptiness, and Necrovalley. The ss hate is good almost during any stage of the game, as yosenju doesn't need to ss much. Necrovalley is better a bit later in the game compared to the other ss hate, as it just locks in whatever was dumped in there and the grave it is often a means to an end-Special Summoning. This is why I didn't run any banishment. It is unlikely that I would get banishment early. Early is the main time when banishment has value. After stuff's already been dumped in the grave, it can be used. It wasn't good if the other guy already had stuff set up. It wasn't the most consistent, and added to the floodgates overlapping, so I just didn't run any, wanting to minimize the overlap. I wanted to maximize my offense, which would be good against any deck, rather than taking away from the other guy, which might or might not work. Instead of siding banishment, I just used SIM as many darks use the grave,and other floodgates.
 
Which leads me to thinning. Running less floodgates meant I might not get them as needed, but then adding thinner instead alleviated the issue, still increasing my chances of getting one while running a relatively low amount in comparison to a standard build. Assuming 3 Upstart, 3 Void, 1 Day of Peace, and 1 PoD, one gets at least one floodgate about 60% of the time (using a hyper-geometric calculator, with population size=32, number of success=5, sample size=5, and number of successes in sample size=1. However, this is assuming pod is an upstart.) In contrast, if one is running a standard build with upstart and PoD, and banishment with 2 necrovalley, then they get a 74% chance of getting at least 1 flood; 79% if GK's commandment is in. However, about 1 in 3 games they will be opening 2+ floods if they go first, compared to half that in this build. That can be a dead card. Even if that weren't the case, it still doesn't help to your win condition. Yosen wants to condense the monsters as much as possible. The thinning helps; a little under half the time (44%), going first, will get 3+monsters vs 34% with just the pod and upstarts. Around 10%+ more in most cases, which increases as the duel goes on due to other cards like reckless. But anyways, I don't like numbers...
 
But by using thinner to avoid running 1 for 1's, I essentially draw into more monsters in proportion, allowing more aggressiveness. Same for reckless. Although after a certain article was published online, the standard phrase bandied about was something like this: "X isn't a combo deck, so Reckless Greed shouldn't be run in it." Some people think this also applies to yosenju. However, it isn't quite so easy to categorize as such, I think. Yosenjus rely on one another to get their effects, and they have to be different ones. Also, there can be a tradeoff at times when there aren't enough monsters; should I attack and kill the monster with a kama, or should I attack direct with kama 2 to get kama 3's effect? And other such things. In addition, more monsters are sometimes needed, in case the extra is needed to toolbox, but wanting to keep a certain kama for later use. In addition, as the kamas can get their effects after each summon rather than just once, the -1 that is reckless can be mitigated by a kama 3 +1 or a kama 1 -1 from the opponent, or perhaps a tsujik boost kill. Another thing to be mentioned, PoD and reckless aren't run together by many decks, as decks that use reckless tend to SS. But with PoD, recklesses cost can be mitigated. In fact, recklessing into a tenki, reckless, PoD, or monster generally mitigates the cost outright.
 
Also, I don't main any disruption negators. I'd rather be aggressive and side for disruption than have something that is live only during some matchups and would only make the deck suboptimal overall because of it.
 
Some things-
-3 Tsujik isn't usually dead, as it can be used like an Honest if the opponent stops a kama while still giving me a chance to use one later, assuming a multiple is drawn into, or just using it offensively.
-Also I get multiples that I can't use that turn, like PoD or Tenki. I don't like that.
-Also, PoD reveals thinner, diluting its power.
-Also, Into the Void can let the kamas dodge its cost. I side them out against trap heavy decks, as it can be risky. But against other decks like Nekroz, its great.
-Into the Void makes a terrible topdeck.
-I experimented with a mixture of lv4 deck like kagetokage, but it wasn't worth making l1t dead. Although, I haven't tried tested too much into that.
 
Feedback and suggestions greatly appreciated.

Monster 12

9 Yosenju Kama bros.
3 Yosenju Tsujik

Magic 17

3 Tenki
3 Upstart
3 Into the Void

3 Pot of Duality
1 Raigeki
2 Dark Hole
1 Necrovalley
1 One Day of Peace

Trap 11

3 Mirror Force
3 Reckless
3 Lose 1 arm and a leg and a wallet also
1 Emptiness
1 Torrential

Side 15
3 SIM
3 Trap Stun
3 Fairy Wind
3 Imperial Iron Wall
2 MST
1 Necrovalley

Extra 15 (might need a bit of work)
2 Cowboy
2 Chidori
1 Cairngorgon
1 Abyss Dweller
1 Diamond Crab King
1 Heartland Draco
1 Castel
1 Exciton
1 Tiger King
1 Ragnazero
1 Constellar Ptolemy m7
1 Satellarnight Diamond
1 Tellarknight Ptolemaeus

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Me.    57

Cardcar D is a better thinner than into the void, because drawing 2 is better than drawing 1. Giving up your turn for it isn't really that big because if you summoned the cardcar you probably wouldn't accomplish much else summoning a yosenju anyways. And if you draw cardcar when you already have everything you need, well I agree that it's a dead card but it's also affordable because you already got everything.

 

You should probably also find space for a second necrovalley mained. Not just as a floodgate, but as a card that lets you OTK nekroz.

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┬╗Satchmo    3222

type out the decklist in the OP, otherwise good start to the community

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Someguy    10

type out the decklist in the OP, otherwise good start to the community

Gotcha. And thanks.

 

Cardcar D is a better thinner than into the void, because drawing 2 is better than drawing 1. Giving up your turn for it isn't really that big because if you summoned the cardcar you probably wouldn't accomplish much else summoning a yosenju anyways. And if you draw cardcar when you already have everything you need, well I agree that it's a dead card but it's also affordable because you already got everything.

 

You should probably also find space for a second necrovalley mained. Not just as a floodgate, but as a card that lets you OTK nekroz.

It depends on how many yosenju I would get. Generally, I think 3+ would make summoning yosenjus better than cardcar, depending on the types of kamas. I have a 61% chance of getting 3+ kamas going second. (Actually, I think it is more due to PoD, but somewhat cancelled out by unplayable multiples. But yeah) Multiple Voids are better than multiple cardcars. It might be good at 1 though. I'll have to test it. Actually, I only started playing yosenju seriously a few days ago when I picked up a core for cheap, as I think the value may increase sometime this year. Either way, it makes for a good budget deck.

 

I just rely on the other floodgates for most part, as they really shut those on summon effects, and then wipe the board with mass removal. I actually did main a second copy, then took it out, then got stuck thinking about it in the middle. Although, it is hard to think of what to take out, as space it tight. On that subject, I think one of the reasons why nekroz is one of the best decks isn't just that they can make big plays and locks (that is the main reason of course) but another advantage is that their deck space is tight, lessening the chance of subpar cards and tech and other such variances. There is Scolding (I actually ran it in yosenju once, and resolved it vs opp's Gorz when going for game haha) and other out based strategies in nekroz (as soon as I saw it, I thought it could be a thing in nekroz-but someone beat me to the punch) but for most part, their engine is very efficient. Most of yosenju isn't, unfortunately.

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Me.    57

Yosenju is, contrary to how most people play it, a high ceiling deck. You need 4 yosenju to OTK an empty field, which isn't terribly difficult to accomplish with kama 1 and if a 3+ yosenju push doesn't win you the game you are sure to keep the resources for next turn because your monsters are safe in your hand. This is amazing pressure on your opponent what I think is the real strength of yosenju. Because of this, my approach has been similar to your in that I've attempted a deep draw variant with cardcar, duality, upstart, reckless, hope for escape (not sure if this is ideal as it conflicts with being an aggro deck, but it generally works out holding yosenjus in hand without attacking until you've drawn enough to go for an OTK or 2TK and hope for escape is just a good draw card in this playstyle usually giving you 2-3 draws per copy) and battle stoppers like swift scarecrow/t-roar. The deck itself turns out consistent, but not without flaws. The combination of trishula and valkyrus means that the nekroz matchup just isn't consistently winnable, and the few turns delay before you put on the big pressure means that if qliphort gets going with multiple tribute summoned monsters, you can't push through. Because of this, I haven't attempted to use the deck competitively this format but I see a huge potential after a meta shift where the top tier strategies doesn't counter the yosenju push as effectively.

 

A deck that's purely a floodgate deck isn't good enough right now, which is why yosenju is generally regarded as a bad deck. And I agree that the typical approach isn't good. So I really like your idea here and support you in further evolving it because you're like the only other person I've seen immediately recognize the strength of the yosenju monsters.

 

Cardcar is just a card that has worked out great in the aggressive approach even if you don't go full out deep draw because it makes it so much more likely that you'll see your monsters in high numbers.

 

Not having any spell/trap hate in the main deck may be good against nekroz, but it's suicide against any other matchup. Trap stun/mst/main decree/full house/etc., it's a meta call that feels pointless to do this late in the format unless your going to Europe ECQ, but something you probably have to do eventually. Even secret move has its merits as an offensive card in stopping traps/hand traps during your turn, it being a trap sucks but most alternatives are going to have this flaw.

 

Dark hole and raigeki are also cards I'm not sure on. While they open up the field for an OTK, your monsters are already great and clearing fields and a 2TK is still both good and something you often have to settle for regardless. While other cards like more draw power or valk/trish stoppers or battle stoppers could see more value.

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Someguy    10

Yosenju is, contrary to how most people play it, a high ceiling deck. You need 4 yosenju to OTK an empty field, which isn't terribly difficult to accomplish with kama 1 and if a 3+ yosenju push doesn't win you the game you are sure to keep the resources for next turn because your monsters are safe in your hand. This is amazing pressure on your opponent what I think is the real strength of yosenju. Because of this, my approach has been similar to your in that I've attempted a deep draw variant with cardcar, duality, upstart, reckless, hope for escape (not sure if this is ideal as it conflicts with being an aggro deck, but it generally works out holding yosenjus in hand without attacking until you've drawn enough to go for an OTK or 2TK and hope for escape is just a good draw card in this playstyle usually giving you 2-3 draws per copy) and battle stoppers like swift scarecrow/t-roar. The deck itself turns out consistent, but not without flaws. The combination of trishula and valkyrus means that the nekroz matchup just isn't consistently winnable, and the few turns delay before you put on the big pressure means that if qliphort gets going with multiple tribute summoned monsters, you can't push through. Because of this, I haven't attempted to use the deck competitively this format but I see a huge potential after a meta shift where the top tier strategies doesn't counter the yosenju push as effectively.
 
A deck that's purely a floodgate deck isn't good enough right now, which is why yosenju is generally regarded as a bad deck. And I agree that the typical approach isn't good. So I really like your idea here and support you in further evolving it because you're like the only other person I've seen immediately recognize the strength of the yosenju monsters.
 
Cardcar is just a card that has worked out great in the aggressive approach even if you don't go full out deep draw because it makes it so much more likely that you'll see your monsters in high numbers.
 
Not having any spell/trap hate in the main deck may be good against nekroz, but it's suicide against any other matchup. Trap stun/mst/main decree/full house/etc., it's a meta call that feels pointless to do this late in the format unless your going to Europe ECQ, but something you probably have to do eventually. Even secret move has its merits as an offensive card in stopping traps/hand traps during your turn, it being a trap sucks but most alternatives are going to have this flaw.
 
Dark hole and raigeki are also cards I'm not sure on. While they open up the field for an OTK, your monsters are already great and clearing fields and a 2TK is still both good and something you often have to settle for regardless. While other cards like more draw power or valk/trish stoppers or battle stoppers could see more value.


I agree that yosenju has very high potential in comparison to other decks; a great yosenju play will often trump an opponent's great play. Deep draw seems to be the way to go; the question, I think, is what kind of variant of draw? You said that nekroz isn't consistently winnable. I think it might be because of attack stoppers. I don't think that stall should be used in yosenju, for most part. It depends on the opponent. The reason is because it contradicts some aspects of the deck. A troar or scarecrow is essentially a minus. It may give you a kama next turn to mitigate that minus, but there are some things to be mentioned in that respect. One, the likelihood of making up for that minus with a yosenju must be high in order to consistently use it. However,this minus isn't just a minus one, but more. Qli and nekroz are decks that can generate strong fields. When you stop the battle for the turn, next turn you will likely be facing a bigger field, with 1 card extra to show for it. (Ofc the strong draw can make up for that) You could use yosen the turn after to put a dent in the field, making that field not as strong. But the question is, would it be enough? The reason some use stall in yosenju is because of the LP cost. But that isn't the reason it should be run. It should be used so that, overall, it generates you more advantage than it would the opp. This is why I use one day of peace, as it does the same thing except during the same turn so the opponent can't use that +1 the same turn and I'm safe from the effects of the opp advantage and get another card afterwards. Even then, I'm not sure it is a good idea. However, I use it because of the other factor, which is sided cards. It helps thin the deck. Some matches, I personally think, it is ok for the minus. This is because sided cards often generate more than a simple 1 or 2 card advantage. Fairy wind vs qli, mistake vs nekroz, etc. are essentially a mass minus. Whoever wins the race to outs gets a huge advantage. But, that isn't always the case. This is because yosenju is not often sided against, and it is easy for them to side against other matchups. So that mass minus isn't often minusing yosen. And the other advantage of a deep draw yosenju is that they can get those game changing cards faster than current builds. This is why I don't think stall is too good; it doesn't thin as much. I think mass removal would be better because is rids one of an already set up field. Of course, the decks you mentioned can reestablish quickly, but one should have drawn into a sided card in the case of qli, and nekroz can be floodgated; it depends on how many floods are used. Too many people running yosenju make the mistake of running cards that are just 1 for 1s that will not generate enough of a minus against aforementioned matchups, and don't get sided cards fast enough due to lack of draw. With those factors, I haven't had too many problems with those matchups. Qli is rather slow to set up; they just stun with floodgates long enough to bring out the other stuff. For me, triple trap stun and 3 fairy wind with double mst works wonders. But using hope for escape and such to gather resources prevents making plays each turn. Otk based variants won't be as consistent, I think, by saving yosens for a big push; just adding as much pressure each turn is ideal, as it would defeat the opponent faster overall and be more consistent,as well as allowing the player to have a decent grind game with xyz's.

Thanks. Actually, that was the reason why I joined, people just didn't understand what I was talking about and kept saying to add mind crush and stuff lol.

It is true that negation is better against matchups other than nekroz. However, dolls don't run too much backrow and their monsters can be cleared via mass removal and then hopefully the kamas can clear the remnants. Negation is good vs decks that run a lot of distruption. Nullification would be a better term I guess. As it is, lots of nullification would be needed to get the monsters through; this would require the deck to make sacrifices in its ceiling/potential. I just try to side in mass nullification because of that. And different kinds for different matchups; fairy wind for qli, trap stun for satellars, etc. Running a 1 for 1 nullification isn't efficient, which was why I didn't main any and it is also reliant on a combination (nullification as well as monsters) which reduces consistency. I generally try to push through disruptors with power and yosenju Honest, although it isn't efficient either, but is more consistent. I do try to bait stuff out with Tsujik (poor guy, he's the test case) or just kama 2 and tsujik from hand, and make bigger plays the following turn.

My thinking on mass removal vs stall was that it mitigated damage while also removing a setup. It probably wouldn't be as effective as stopping damage,but the additional benefits of removal made me think it was enough, as well as being versatile to help overcome board presence type decks as well as strategies that could summon more monsters than usual.

A question: when I summon a kama and the guy is asking me if I use the effect or not (set torrential, ofc) then am I obligated to answer, or is it his own judgement when to activate, or what? Kinda confusing... I said to one guy "maybe, maybe not, do you resp?" And he was like, "what is that even supposed to mean?"

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Me.    57

One day of peace is definitely a card you should be running, don't doubt it. Your reasoning for it is correct, but it's just one card so you can't really see it as a replacement for generic stall. Scarecrow/t-roar/whatever does have its place in deep draw yosenju, because you're simply going to run out of life points without them and that's a loss regardless if you generate more advantage or not (an extra turn to summon 4 yosenju definitely is worth more than 1 card though, because of what those monsters accomplish). Lose 1 turn and mirror force are alternatives and I'm not speaking badly of your build for running them, they are more suited for your approach. With deep draw, I'm really just running stall, draw, trap stun and yosenju in the deck which I admit is not the best approach in the current meta because you need floodgates to beat nekroz; and adding cards like mirror force over chainables just makes me lose out to helix, trish, decisive armor, etc. because I don't have said floodgates. If this had not been a problem, I'd agree that normal battle traps just does it better.

 

As for otk based variants not being consistent, that's not true. In playing with a deep draw engine, I have never bricked even once. Because every card is either an engine card, or a card that gets you new cards and those new cards are either engine cards or gets you new cards, etc. Eventually, I am going to open 3 trap stun though. The deck is very consistent, although some hands are slow. Under the assumption that your yosenju monsters can clear any field and that the opponent isn't somehow killing your resources (decree/denko/triveer/trish), the deck is virtually unbeatable. That assumption unfortunately doesn't hold though, which is where the deck fails this format. It may be slower, but not less consistent. And being slow isn't even necessarily bad because you have the stall for it, it's only really a liability when qliphort outpaces you and creates fields your monsters can't handle. As for approaches relying less on saving up the resources being able to apply more pressure, you really need 3+ yosenju to apply that pressure and the deep draw build is going to go for it most of the time if it got 3 yosenjus. And getting there is just more consistent when that's your deck focus. It's also possible hope for escape wasn't the ideal choice of a draw card, and you'd be better off just doing something like an accumulated fortune draw engine (no idea how to find space for it) where there isn't really a reason to not summon 2 yosenju and accomplish something that turn. But that's still the deep draw variant, which is still going to be inferior to your approach for this format. My approach fails because it doesn't take in account the meta it's playing in, but once there's a shift into a meta where a yosenju swarm can kill any field, the top deck isn't searching out swift scarecrow every turn and you don't get your hand killed, it's going to be the best yosenju approach.

 

The effect to summon another yosenju is a trigger effect on summon that has to be declared before either player has a chance to respond to the summon with non-trigger effects like torrential.

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Someguy    10

One day of peace is definitely a card you should be running, don't doubt it. Your reasoning for it is correct, but it's just one card so you can't really see it as a replacement for generic stall. Scarecrow/t-roar/whatever does have its place in deep draw yosenju, because you're simply going to run out of life points without them and that's a loss regardless if you generate more advantage or not (an extra turn to summon 4 yosenju definitely is worth more than 1 card though, because of what those monsters accomplish). Lose 1 turn and mirror force are alternatives and I'm not speaking badly of your build for running them, they are more suited for your approach. With deep draw, I'm really just running stall, draw, trap stun and yosenju in the deck which I admit is not the best approach in the current meta because you need floodgates to beat nekroz; and adding cards like mirror force over chainables just makes me lose out to helix, trish, decisive armor, etc. because I don't have said floodgates. If this had not been a problem, I'd agree that normal battle traps just does it better.

 

As for otk based variants not being consistent, that's not true. In playing with a deep draw engine, I have never bricked even once. Because every card is either an engine card, or a card that gets you new cards and those new cards are either engine cards or gets you new cards, etc. Eventually, I am going to open 3 trap stun though. The deck is very consistent, although some hands are slow. Under the assumption that your yosenju monsters can clear any field and that the opponent isn't somehow killing your resources (decree/denko/triveer/trish), the deck is virtually unbeatable. That assumption unfortunately doesn't hold though, which is where the deck fails this format. It may be slower, but not less consistent. And being slow isn't even necessarily bad because you have the stall for it, it's only really a liability when qliphort outpaces you and creates fields your monsters can't handle. As for approaches relying less on saving up the resources being able to apply more pressure, you really need 3+ yosenju to apply that pressure and the deep draw build is going to go for it most of the time if it got 3 yosenjus. And getting there is just more consistent when that's your deck focus. It's also possible hope for escape wasn't the ideal choice of a draw card, and you'd be better off just doing something like an accumulated fortune draw engine (no idea how to find space for it) where there isn't really a reason to not summon 2 yosenju and accomplish something that turn. But that's still the deep draw variant, which is still going to be inferior to your approach for this format. My approach fails because it doesn't take in account the meta it's playing in, but once there's a shift into a meta where a yosenju swarm can kill any field, the top deck isn't searching out swift scarecrow every turn and you don't get your hand killed, it's going to be the best yosenju approach.

 

The effect to summon another yosenju is a trigger effect on summon that has to be declared before either player has a chance to respond to the summon with non-trigger effects like torrential.

 

Yeah, it seems this format is about spamming floodgates on nekroz mainly, hence running them. For me, Qli isn't too much of a problem, as a lot of my side happens to coincide with Qli hate. I agree, it all depends on the specific build. An extra turn to spam with yosenju is certainly a big thing. Not sure how much stall I would run though. How does your build fare against maintained advantage (BA and Dolls)?

 

I hadn't tried Cardcar in my Accumulated Fortune variant (you read my mind haha) because I hadn't thought much about building it, but you're right, a stall build otk/stk can also work well. I think the problem is that people try to do both, stall and floodgate, and it just ends up being mediocre on both fronts. Although, I don't know if decree will be hit, as it never does. Oh well.

 

Thanks.

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Me.    57

 

One day of peace is definitely a card you should be running, don't doubt it. Your reasoning for it is correct, but it's just one card so you can't really see it as a replacement for generic stall. Scarecrow/t-roar/whatever does have its place in deep draw yosenju, because you're simply going to run out of life points without them and that's a loss regardless if you generate more advantage or not (an extra turn to summon 4 yosenju definitely is worth more than 1 card though, because of what those monsters accomplish). Lose 1 turn and mirror force are alternatives and I'm not speaking badly of your build for running them, they are more suited for your approach. With deep draw, I'm really just running stall, draw, trap stun and yosenju in the deck which I admit is not the best approach in the current meta because you need floodgates to beat nekroz; and adding cards like mirror force over chainables just makes me lose out to helix, trish, decisive armor, etc. because I don't have said floodgates. If this had not been a problem, I'd agree that normal battle traps just does it better.

 

As for otk based variants not being consistent, that's not true. In playing with a deep draw engine, I have never bricked even once. Because every card is either an engine card, or a card that gets you new cards and those new cards are either engine cards or gets you new cards, etc. Eventually, I am going to open 3 trap stun though. The deck is very consistent, although some hands are slow. Under the assumption that your yosenju monsters can clear any field and that the opponent isn't somehow killing your resources (decree/denko/triveer/trish), the deck is virtually unbeatable. That assumption unfortunately doesn't hold though, which is where the deck fails this format. It may be slower, but not less consistent. And being slow isn't even necessarily bad because you have the stall for it, it's only really a liability when qliphort outpaces you and creates fields your monsters can't handle. As for approaches relying less on saving up the resources being able to apply more pressure, you really need 3+ yosenju to apply that pressure and the deep draw build is going to go for it most of the time if it got 3 yosenjus. And getting there is just more consistent when that's your deck focus. It's also possible hope for escape wasn't the ideal choice of a draw card, and you'd be better off just doing something like an accumulated fortune draw engine (no idea how to find space for it) where there isn't really a reason to not summon 2 yosenju and accomplish something that turn. But that's still the deep draw variant, which is still going to be inferior to your approach for this format. My approach fails because it doesn't take in account the meta it's playing in, but once there's a shift into a meta where a yosenju swarm can kill any field, the top deck isn't searching out swift scarecrow every turn and you don't get your hand killed, it's going to be the best yosenju approach.

 

The effect to summon another yosenju is a trigger effect on summon that has to be declared before either player has a chance to respond to the summon with non-trigger effects like torrential.

 

Yeah, it seems this format is about spamming floodgates on nekroz mainly, hence running them. For me, Qli isn't too much of a problem, as a lot of my side happens to coincide with Qli hate. I agree, it all depends on the specific build. An extra turn to spam with yosenju is certainly a big thing. Not sure how much stall I would run though. How does your build fare against maintained advantage (BA and Dolls)?

 

I hadn't tried Cardcar in my Accumulated Fortune variant (you read my mind haha) because I hadn't thought much about building it, but you're right, a stall build otk/stk can also work well. I think the problem is that people try to do both, stall and floodgate, and it just ends up being mediocre on both fronts. Although, I don't know if decree will be hit, as it never does. Oh well.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Dolls doesn't maintain advantage at all, as our main form of removal is kama 1 bounces, followed by attacking. Shaddoll doesn't float through this at all.

 

As for BA, you can't OTK them but you're going to wear down their resources every turn. If they don't xyz, their field will be bounced clear. If they do xyz, the xyz will be bounced and they can block a few attacks with cir and graff effects as materials, but still probably taking damage and quickly running out of main deck resources.

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Someguy    10

 

 

One day of peace is definitely a card you should be running, don't doubt it. Your reasoning for it is correct, but it's just one card so you can't really see it as a replacement for generic stall. Scarecrow/t-roar/whatever does have its place in deep draw yosenju, because you're simply going to run out of life points without them and that's a loss regardless if you generate more advantage or not (an extra turn to summon 4 yosenju definitely is worth more than 1 card though, because of what those monsters accomplish). Lose 1 turn and mirror force are alternatives and I'm not speaking badly of your build for running them, they are more suited for your approach. With deep draw, I'm really just running stall, draw, trap stun and yosenju in the deck which I admit is not the best approach in the current meta because you need floodgates to beat nekroz; and adding cards like mirror force over chainables just makes me lose out to helix, trish, decisive armor, etc. because I don't have said floodgates. If this had not been a problem, I'd agree that normal battle traps just does it better.

 

As for otk based variants not being consistent, that's not true. In playing with a deep draw engine, I have never bricked even once. Because every card is either an engine card, or a card that gets you new cards and those new cards are either engine cards or gets you new cards, etc. Eventually, I am going to open 3 trap stun though. The deck is very consistent, although some hands are slow. Under the assumption that your yosenju monsters can clear any field and that the opponent isn't somehow killing your resources (decree/denko/triveer/trish), the deck is virtually unbeatable. That assumption unfortunately doesn't hold though, which is where the deck fails this format. It may be slower, but not less consistent. And being slow isn't even necessarily bad because you have the stall for it, it's only really a liability when qliphort outpaces you and creates fields your monsters can't handle. As for approaches relying less on saving up the resources being able to apply more pressure, you really need 3+ yosenju to apply that pressure and the deep draw build is going to go for it most of the time if it got 3 yosenjus. And getting there is just more consistent when that's your deck focus. It's also possible hope for escape wasn't the ideal choice of a draw card, and you'd be better off just doing something like an accumulated fortune draw engine (no idea how to find space for it) where there isn't really a reason to not summon 2 yosenju and accomplish something that turn. But that's still the deep draw variant, which is still going to be inferior to your approach for this format. My approach fails because it doesn't take in account the meta it's playing in, but once there's a shift into a meta where a yosenju swarm can kill any field, the top deck isn't searching out swift scarecrow every turn and you don't get your hand killed, it's going to be the best yosenju approach.

 

The effect to summon another yosenju is a trigger effect on summon that has to be declared before either player has a chance to respond to the summon with non-trigger effects like torrential.

 

Yeah, it seems this format is about spamming floodgates on nekroz mainly, hence running them. For me, Qli isn't too much of a problem, as a lot of my side happens to coincide with Qli hate. I agree, it all depends on the specific build. An extra turn to spam with yosenju is certainly a big thing. Not sure how much stall I would run though. How does your build fare against maintained advantage (BA and Dolls)?

 

I hadn't tried Cardcar in my Accumulated Fortune variant (you read my mind haha) because I hadn't thought much about building it, but you're right, a stall build otk/stk can also work well. I think the problem is that people try to do both, stall and floodgate, and it just ends up being mediocre on both fronts. Although, I don't know if decree will be hit, as it never does. Oh well.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Dolls doesn't maintain advantage at all, as our main form of removal is kama 1 bounces, followed by attacking. Shaddoll doesn't float through this at all.

 

As for BA, you can't OTK them but you're going to wear down their resources every turn. If they don't xyz, their field will be bounced clear. If they do xyz, the xyz will be bounced and they can block a few attacks with cir and graff effects as materials, but still probably taking damage and quickly running out of main deck resources.

 

Well, they seemed to recycle a lot and chain to kama 1's effect with their fusion, and a set falco is annoying too.

 

Yeah, BA is a grind game. I used Diamond, but then they just removed it with a trap. I guess normaling kamas is best.

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dopespot    34

The thought put into the op is well reasoned and innovative. I don't know how I feel about Into the Void and Reckless in actual testing yet. Most other things feel solid and logical. I completely agree that the restricted gy hate (Dfissure, Macro) isn't as strong as it seems on paper. This deck relies on a strong early game and if you don't see the banishers early they are blank. Honestly the biggest benefit is they stop veiler from ruining your day.

 

Is there a reason Maxx C isn't included in the main or side? Against everything that isn't qli it does a good upstart impression while also playing defense by asking your opponent to stop their progress for the turn. Considering this deck is going second ~50% of the games it plays, Maxx is relevant disruption + cantrip. Maxx is super relevant against BA and tellars which both play real trap cards that can stop our aggression.

 

Have you played around with Solemn Scolding at all? I see that it conflicts with Into the Void but it is a real role player here by either protecting floodgates, stopping defensive cards like effect negation/Torri/ Mirror Force while also being a slightly more expensive/conditional Warning. In a deck with so much draw power playing 2 would allow you to see it more often without having to deal with multiples. This card has put in some serious work for me and I'm wondering if you have tried it out or had different results.

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Someguy    10

The thought put into the op is well reasoned and innovative. I don't know how I feel about Into the Void and Reckless in actual testing yet. Most other things feel solid and logical. I completely agree that the restricted gy hate (Dfissure, Macro) isn't as strong as it seems on paper. This deck relies on a strong early game and if you don't see the banishers early they are blank. Honestly the biggest benefit is they stop veiler from ruining your day.

 

Is there a reason Maxx C isn't included in the main or side? Against everything that isn't qli it does a good upstart impression while also playing defense by asking your opponent to stop their progress for the turn. Considering this deck is going second ~50% of the games it plays, Maxx is relevant disruption + cantrip. Maxx is super relevant against BA and tellars which both play real trap cards that can stop our aggression.

 

Have you played around with Solemn Scolding at all? I see that it conflicts with Into the Void but it is a real role player here by either protecting floodgates, stopping defensive cards like effect negation/Torri/ Mirror Force while also being a slightly more expensive/conditional Warning. In a deck with so much draw power playing 2 would allow you to see it more often without having to deal with multiples. This card has put in some serious work for me and I'm wondering if you have tried it out or had different results.

Thanks. Another thing I want to add is that Void can also work in yosenju better than other decks for the reason that yosenjus return to the hand, allowing the mimimum of three cards in hand to be fulfilled.

 

Maxx is a very good idea. I had returned from an anti ss antimeta actually, so I had forgotten all about it. It does bother me that it is reactive rather than something that can be used otherwise, but it can certainly add to the thinning and double as a defensive measure as well, and seems suited for yosenju, as those extra cards may very well kill the opponent. And if they don't make a big play, then they may very well be overwhelmed. I'll be trying to add it in. I'm not sure what I might take out. Although the general idea is that the core of yosenju goes like "3 of each kama and 3 tenki", I am at the stage where PoD and tenki are dead at times. This is a problem of thinning, where one draws multiples of once per turn clause cards when they don't want to. I think I might take some out (uncertain of which ones and the amounts as of yet), as well as defensive cards like the mass removal, for Maxx. 7 mass removals are being run, so adding thinner to that and reducing removal (Mirror Force most likely) can still equal it out. And, like I said, it is a defensive measure in itself. It might be premature to say as of yet, but I think it will work better than cardcar, depending on the build ofc.

 

I have run Scolding, and it was surprisingly live. I hadn't ran it in the Void build as I had not conceived the Void idea at the time, and then when I did use the Void build, space was quite tight. I Scolded an opponent's Gorz when attacking for game though :) and I think I ran 1-2 at the time. I do think it can work, but so far, I think there won't be space for it, as what was though at must have's in yosen are not ideal to this build. I do like how this deck is more aggro and wins in less turns; therefore, by avoiding longer games like other yosenju decks do, the LP cost is mitigated, and so it would be safer to play. I also like how it is one of those cards that can do what other cards need combos of to do the same thing; a standalone card. That is to say, some yosenju builds run secret move, but it is only live during the opponent's turn, so people use L as well, which only prevents destruction disruption. Who knows, maybe running a couple of those and less reactive traps (Mirror Force) would work.

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dopespot    34

After some brief testing with this list I have to state one glaring observation:

 

Considering you want to be playing Into the Void M1 before you summon (so that if you draw a weasel you can summon it in the weasel chain and avoid discarding it due to Voids EOT ef), if your opponent has any effect negation for your first weasel after you play Void, you immediately lose the game because you discard the rest of your dudes. This is a serious issue, as Veiler, BTS, Fiendish and other effect negation is not uncommon. While these cards are already strong against weasels (because they all pretty much end your turn right there), Void exacerbates this problem significantly. Void is also not a power card where you want to save it for the correct situation; its just a cantrip that you want to play ASAP to dig a card deeper so you can't play around your opponents disruption as effectively as without it.

 

I also didn't like that I couldn't run hand traps with it like Maxx or Veiler nor could I effectively run Scolding due to constantly setting spells. There were times is was strong running a 34 card deck but this card has more restrictions to it than Upstart Goblin and requires more deckbuilding consideration than I think is worth it for a simple cantrip.

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Someguy    10

After some brief testing with this list I have to state one glaring observation:
 
Considering you want to be playing Into the Void M1 before you summon (so that if you draw a weasel you can summon it in the weasel chain and avoid discarding it due to Voids EOT ef), if your opponent has any effect negation for your first weasel after you play Void, you immediately lose the game because you discard the rest of your dudes. This is a serious issue, as Veiler, BTS, Fiendish and other effect negation is not uncommon. While these cards are already strong against weasels (because they all pretty much end your turn right there), Void exacerbates this problem significantly. Void is also not a power card where you want to save it for the correct situation; its just a cantrip that you want to play ASAP to dig a card deeper so you can't play around your opponents disruption as effectively as without it.
 
I also didn't like that I couldn't run hand traps with it like Maxx or Veiler nor could I effectively run Scolding due to constantly setting spells. There were times is was strong running a 34 card deck but this card has more restrictions to it than Upstart Goblin and requires more deckbuilding consideration than I think is worth it for a simple cantrip.


You've nailed most of the problems with the deck so far. I'm trying to figure a way around that. Going first helps avoid that issue, although it doesn't really count.

I personally don't think veiler should be run in general, as it doesn't provide economy of card. But I agree with the Maxx thing. I was thinking or running 2 void instead. Although, that doesn't solve the problem either. Seeing as most games are played sided, I just side the voids out against heavy disruption decks, like tellars, and keep them in against aggressive big play decks (nekroz).

Void is a real bottleneck at times and does make other cards harder to play. Knowing what cards will probably be drawn into is a consideration too-the cost benefit ratio may not make it the best.

I think that another problem this deck has is that it runs too many defensive cards. It does run much less defense than other builds, but with that mass removal and floodgates, it is too much. I think a fundemental restructure is best, rather than finding ways to filler through. I have made changes, although I want to resolve the issues better than currently before putting up a modified version, gotta hit the numbers again. Feel free to post your own variants of the idea and see what works, I'm not so interested in making this particular deck better than resolving the problems. This is somewhat new as far as I know, so its hard to find the solution yet. Also, 1 Pod and 1 One Day = 32 card deck (unless pod reveals a filler that is not used ofc). But so far,the best thing I can think of is 2 Maxx and 3 void (perhaps other ratios are better) and siding appropriatly.

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Me.    57

Cardcar is still the best draw card in yosenju after upstart imo. The consistency boost is just so much more noticeable when you draw 2 cards instead of 1, and it is worth giving up the turn for it in most cases. In the cases drawing 2 cards is not worth giving up the turn, you topped cardcar with enough yosenjus in hand that you're probably going to win regardless. Remember how hieratic used to run duality and cardcar?

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dexer008    805

You could play chicken race over void as a extra upstart, and it will protect your lifepoints while they are lower then your opponent. Then when it comes to your turn to push if it is still around on the field you can destroy it.

 

Edit; However it isn't out yet I just realized, but will be in a month, so if you aren't hoping to play in anything soon then the wait could be worth it. 

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Someguy    10

Cardcar is still the best draw card in yosenju after upstart imo. The consistency boost is just so much more noticeable when you draw 2 cards instead of 1, and it is worth giving up the turn for it in most cases. In the cases drawing 2 cards is not worth giving up the turn, you topped cardcar with enough yosenjus in hand that you're probably going to win regardless. Remember how hieratic used to run duality and cardcar?

I think it depends on the build. If void is run, then cardcar can't be run. And if one is running Void, then one usually gets enough to use the monsters at the get go, so that cardcar wouldn't be idea card to play. Cardcar is noticeable because it is an actual plus rather than a 0. I think the reason hieratic used cardcar and Duality was because it wasn't consistent. Yosenju is, it is just that it can be faster or slower in a somewhat linear fashion rather than brick/explode like hieratics.

 

You could play chicken race over void as a extra upstart, and it will protect your lifepoints while they are lower then your opponent. Then when it comes to your turn to push if it is still around on the field you can destroy it.

 

Edit; However it isn't out yet I just realized, but will be in a month, so if you aren't hoping to play in anything soon then the wait could be worth it. 

With Terraforming, the thinning would be so much better, possibly a 20something card deck and the LP protection would be a ridiculously huge boost. It is a card where one has to play relatively skillfully. It is quite powerful.

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dopespot    34

The primary reason Cardcar isn't viable here is that aside from the first turn of the game, you want to be summoning a weasel instead of any other normal summon and you already play 12 weasels + 3 Tenki + cantrips. Cardcar at any other stage in the game is trading your turn for cards which isn't viable in a tempo deck like weasels. By tempo deck I mean that this deck has no late-game potential or CA advantage engine whatsoever. All yosenju wants to do is stun the opponent for a few turns and beat down with 2-4 weasels for game. This deck is all about aggression and capitalizing on your floodgates/stun cards to buy enough time to kill them. Almost every single theme-deck in ygo will beat us if the game goes long enough, so you have to put things away quickly.

 

So unless it is the first turn of the game, you always want to be summoning weasels and attacking vs pretty much anything else currently allowed. Maybe if Tking went to 3 things could change but this deck doesn't play for CA, it plays for time and dmg.

 

Chicken Race is obv nuts but as stated is currently not legal and by the time it is released not only will we have another set released with new archtypes but also a new banlist. I think that it is best to work on figuring out a strong core for decks currently until the new metagame shows it's face.

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Me.    57

The primary reason Cardcar isn't viable here is that aside from the first turn of the game, you want to be summoning a weasel instead of any other normal summon and you already play 12 weasels + 3 Tenki + cantrips. Cardcar at any other stage in the game is trading your turn for cards which isn't viable in a tempo deck like weasels. By tempo deck I mean that this deck has no late-game potential or CA advantage engine whatsoever. All yosenju wants to do is stun the opponent for a few turns and beat down with 2-4 weasels for game. This deck is all about aggression and capitalizing on your floodgates/stun cards to buy enough time to kill them. Almost every single theme-deck in ygo will beat us if the game goes long enough, so you have to put things away quickly.

 

So unless it is the first turn of the game, you always want to be summoning weasels and attacking vs pretty much anything else currently allowed. Maybe if Tking went to 3 things could change but this deck doesn't play for CA, it plays for time and dmg.

 

Chicken Race is obv nuts but as stated is currently not legal and by the time it is released not only will we have another set released with new archtypes but also a new banlist. I think that it is best to work on figuring out a strong core for decks currently until the new metagame shows it's face.

 

Cardcar over summoning 2 weasels, definitely. Because that's not enough pressure to end the game in a timely manner. As for cardcar vs. 3-5 weasels, you will obviously summon the weasels, however this is already enough pressure where the game should be ending that turn (as we're assuming you topped the cardcar and already dealt some damage, else you probably would have played that cardcar on an earlier turn). That is, unless your opponent has backrow or other type of push stoppers that you have no out to and in that case cardcar still serves the purpose of digging for outs to these. As much as yosenju is a tempo deck, you don't throw a 4 monster push into a backrow against a deck you know runs tt and mirror force without first getting your trap stun. But then you could argue that the deck in question here doesn't run any backrow outs to dig for, but if that's the case the whole cardcar thing doesn't matter because you weren't winning that game regardless; even with trying to play around the mass destruction by not going all out in your push.

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iDunnoBro    822

It's late for me so I could be wrong but your spell count says 17 and I'm only counting 14. 37 card deck yo

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ensane    163

Duality isn't on the text list but it is in the pic

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Someguy    10

It's late for me so I could be wrong but your spell count says 17 and I'm only counting 14. 37 card deck yo

Whoops. Edited.

 

Duality isn't on the text list but it is in the pic

Added and changed, thanks.

 

I think Malevolent Catastrophe could work well here. There is already a lot of backrow hate though. I think if it is ran, 3 fairy wind won't be needed. The thing is, Yosenju usually wins if its just monsters vs monsters, but with backrow in the equation, it is much more difficult. MaCat (don't have one irl lol. Get it?) is better in the regard that is more efficient than trap stun (which is mainly good if gotten in multiples or going for game) because it gets rid of backrow for good. And it should be easy to resolve. A potential issue is that it would kill floodgates. The setting of cards after using into the void should not be a problem, as void is sided out against most of those backrow heavy decks anyways.

 

And decks that maintain field presence are tough to get over, like yang zing, and hands are annoying too.

 

Edit: I just got another idea, although I'm still figuring out the specifics. Looking at the side, most of it is to stop disruption. Disruption most often comes in the for of traps. Therefore, I think it might be possible, and indeed beneficial, if Decree is sided. I think Trap Stun can also be sided where Decree would be run, as it isn't likely to get a sided card t1, so adding more than 3 is best. And even if the opponent MST's Decree, Stun can still be live. And most of the rest of the side deck can be floodgates and perhaps other spells or Maxx C, as so to side out other traps when siding for trap heavy decks. This is because Decree does what most of the side does. This frees up space for other things, most likely floodgates against decks that don't run many traps, if at all (nekroz, dolls) where the traps being run can stay, as well as more floodgates.

 

Decks that don't run too much backrow are often 'the bigger deck'-decks that have high maximum potential but they use similar ways of generating advantage throughout that particular deck. For example, Nekroz relies on special summons and search and spells, floodgated by L1T, Mistake, and Anti Spell Fragrance, respectively. Trees were countered by grave floods like Cosmos, Dfissure, Soul Drain. And so on. Of course, each deck countering said strategies could be hurt by other floodgates, but if two different decks that didn't run much backrow h2h went against each other, most likely a clear winner would emerge time and time again, as those decks tend to compete purely on power- see how underpowered LS is against nekroz, for example. Of course, floodgates are the solution, but if the main deck is better than another's, relying on floodgates will still make the floodgater lose most of the time, as the noncountering strategy will already get cards they need t1 to get going, as opposed to the floodgater, who relies on 2 main things, and needs to get the defense (floodgates) as fast as possible, otherwise they will lose. If they don't, they will almost certainly lose. If they do, they may still lose, as the opponent will likely be siding in a counter, most often in the form of mst (unless you're going up a smart guy, who will counter your counter's counter, if you countered with a counter-counter) Statistically, this favors the deck that has higher potential. However, this is mitigated by economy of card when siding, which is why I'm trying to run decree. Most traps aren't economical. Floodgates are, as they are a mass minus. Floodgates are most often sided, rather than mained. The problem is that there are so many different decks to compete against, and they each need a different counter, except that the correct counter can also hurt oneself. This is why, as someone said, the best players make strong fields, then flip a flood, locking the other guy. They essentially ignore the other player's strategy for most part, as their field of monsters will be able to overcome the opponent's, and then floodgate appropriately, rather than using cards that are not floodgates for the fact that they can hurt themselves. It is simpler and more powerful. People use Fairy Wind because it hits a lot while not hitting them. But it isn't a floodgate. Decree is. By being able to grossly simplify their counters, they can side in more powerful cards (floods) and win more often against a variety of opponents. People can flood nekroz, but they can't flood deck X. Or perhaps they can flood Y, but not Z. They can side a nonflood strategy, which will increase the amount of variance between their wins against that particular strategy.

 

So basically: The best decks, (ones that don't need to run heavy backrow) essentially simplify what they are hurt by, and are open to being able to counter a variety of strategies. They have single weaknesses, which are most often in the form of floodgates, which generally allows them to be able to counter them easily (MST most often). And they don't have to worry about being overpowered, as their deck focuses around power. That is basically what I want to try to do in Yosenju: make it so the deck is weak only 1 or 2 areas and countering the weakness(es) rather than being worried about the other things, as the deck will be strong enough to overcome. This idea, however, can only work if it is really the deck with a higher power level (preferably 9001).

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dexer008    805

If we're going to identify weaknesses then yosenju would be effect negation, summon negation, mass responsive removal (mirror force, Torrential) and defending life points (since bouncing back to the hand leaves you essentially defenseless - trying to mitigate this by summoning xyz's then takes away your resources to keep pushing each turn). 

 

effect negation - what comes to mind mostly is fiendish chain, breakthrough skill, effect veiler and the odd deck that can run the 1 of skill drain. Seeing as 3/4 are traps your best move would be to use something to counter them no? Veiler is hard to counter but yosenju can run d-fissure and macro so it has that over other decks going for it. I think personally that not running secret move might be the wrong way to go about it because the card essentially covers all the areas as well, being it can stop all areas of effects when trying to go off, bar scolding or warning (since they're not on the field you wouldn't be able to activate move). Move is slow though and requires set up, so whether or not 3 is the right number remains to be tested. With all your cards that dig , I think you could essentially take out 3 of something (not a fan of reckless) for these cards. Although I think void shouldn't be used now that I think more about it. The ability to offset its discard comes with too much risk, and you wanna focus your energy on other cards when playing rather then can you draw 1 for the turn and not go minus. 

 

In terms of defending yourself, have you tested fiendish chain before? In conjuncture with the mirror forces and torrential you have, it offers better odds of opening multiple defensive traps to protect yourself while you set up, as well as having the option to disrupt your opponent further, eg. going first and stopping their manju play.Not to mention is one more mst target that your opponent has to think about responding to. Besides this I can't think of too much more better cards to use besides book of moon. 

 

So essentially after all that;

 

-3 reckless

-3 void

+3 fiendish chain

+3 secret move or 2 secret move/ 1 macro/dfissure or book of moon

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Someguy    10

If we're going to identify weaknesses then yosenju would be effect negation, summon negation, mass responsive removal (mirror force, Torrential) and defending life points (since bouncing back to the hand leaves you essentially defenseless - trying to mitigate this by summoning xyz's then takes away your resources to keep pushing each turn). 

 

effect negation - what comes to mind mostly is fiendish chain, breakthrough skill, effect veiler and the odd deck that can run the 1 of skill drain. Seeing as 3/4 are traps your best move would be to use something to counter them no? Veiler is hard to counter but yosenju can run d-fissure and macro so it has that over other decks going for it. I think personally that not running secret move might be the wrong way to go about it because the card essentially covers all the areas as well, being it can stop all areas of effects when trying to go off, bar scolding or warning (since they're not on the field you wouldn't be able to activate move). Move is slow though and requires set up, so whether or not 3 is the right number remains to be tested. With all your cards that dig , I think you could essentially take out 3 of something (not a fan of reckless) for these cards. Although I think void shouldn't be used now that I think more about it. The ability to offset its discard comes with too much risk, and you wanna focus your energy on other cards when playing rather then can you draw 1 for the turn and not go minus. 

 

In terms of defending yourself, have you tested fiendish chain before? In conjuncture with the mirror forces and torrential you have, it offers better odds of opening multiple defensive traps to protect yourself while you set up, as well as having the option to disrupt your opponent further, eg. going first and stopping their manju play.Not to mention is one more mst target that your opponent has to think about responding to. Besides this I can't think of too much more better cards to use besides book of moon. 

 

So essentially after all that;

 

-3 reckless

-3 void

+3 fiendish chain

+3 secret move or 2 secret move/ 1 macro/dfissure or book of moon

cUXCjIu.png

 

Well, here's the build so far:

 

Monster 13

9 kama bros.

3 Tsujik

1 Maxx C

 

Magic 16

3 upstart

3 pod

3 Tenki

3 void

2 Dark Hole

1 One Day of Peace

1 Raigeki

 

Trap 11

3 Lose 1 Turn

3 Reckless

3 Mirror Force

1 Torrential

1 Emptiness

 

Extra 15

Mostly the same thing

 

Side 15

3 Decree

1 MalCat

1 Trap stun

1 Mistake

1 Soul Drain

1 Cosmos

1 D fissure

1 Book of Moon

3 poisonous Winds

2 Maxx C

 

(The 1 maxx doesn't really interfere with the Void)

Here is my reasoning: The vast majority of disruption comes in the form of traps. Too many resources are spent dealing with them. Secret move is good for stopping disruption, but it is a 1 for 1 essentially. Decks that run those disruptive traps often are the kind that have a lot of them, so trying to negate each one would likely not be in my favor, statistically. I side Voids out for those matchups, as well as some of my traps, and add decree and other backrow hate. To mitigate the loss of draw, I add in 2 Maxx C. Against fast and powerful decks that don't run disruption (mainly ones that have little to no backrow) void can not only be run, but is invaluable in getting floodgates as well as racing to see who can otk the other first.

 

I did consider fiendish, but I don't like the 1 for 1, as well as it only being mainly good early if I don't have offense, and it takes away from the aggro aspect. Also, a lot of damage can be mitigated not just with Force/Torrential, but Hole/Raigeki (as long as I don't get otk'd). Stopping the opponent's monsters using traps vs stopping their disruption to battle out monster vs monster, the latter is much more preferable, as yosenju usually wins out in that regard. And so attempting to have good draw speed for the aggro aspect while running traps would make neither one ideal. Taking damage isn't a problem if it isn't an otk, as the game can often be won in 2-3 turns with this type of speed. But, L1T and emptiness also mitigates damage.

 

I am trying to figure out a way of running a mained Decree build. Some things I can think of are:

-Decree would negate my floods.

-Decree+Void isn't a great idea, as it would mean running 3 cards where they are not needed for a matchup. Because if I am up against a disruptor, then Void is bad where Decree is good, and Decree is bad against decks that run little backrow.

-Decree would also hit the Force and Reckless

-3 Maxx C could help in the draw department, if those things were taken out

-In that case, taking out void and traps would require a lot of stuff being added in, which would most likely be subpar.

 

I think the siding strategy is pretty effective and efficient so far, as it can run traps and floods, or else be low on traps and run decree. But the individual card choices in the side are, I'm pretty sure, far from ideal. The RB matchup's side is decent, as is nekroz (I try to max out floods and draw power). But I think the idea of switching into trap heavy floodgate vs low trap Decree is working well.

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Me.    57

Mained decree is a meta call, and not something I would recommend when you're expecting lots of nekroz. Partly because it's completely dead against them, but even more because you're ending up with a build that can't really stop a nekroz of trishula from resolving. You could take a decree build to locals and it might be the most successful build you ever used, or you could take it to a YCS and scrub out.

 

As for making a concrete decree build, you're removing defense by removing traps. The defense is still needed, and I'm saying run swift scarecrows. Taking damage is a problem because you lose when your life points hit zero and too often you're not going to be fast enough in your pushes to win the race even with an offensive build. OTK's are still a thing and you won't always have decree for when the opponent trades their effect negation for your turn, buying themselves more time in the race. And if you're looking at it in terms of "swift screcrow is a -1, so it's bad", that's just wrong. Buying yourself an extra turn with a 4 yosenju hand is worth more than just one card, not only in how much it can remove from your opponent but also the fact that the extra turn is often the difference between winning or losing when you got this type of pressure.

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