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Joe.    4993

I was also considering asking for the deck minimum to be 50. Anyway, students call me Mr. G. Go with that. Though I don't want to change my "username" from "Joe."

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Justin.    742
Rota was something I feel they completely missed. You reduce the consistency of both Tellars and Heroes if you put rota to one.

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+Urthor    10297

Rota was something I feel they completely missed. You reduce the consistency of both Tellars and Heroes if you put rota to one.


Why would you want to reduce their consistency?

Reducing consistency is absolutely pointless. You don't want their best plays to be less likely to happen, you want their best plays to be fair and skillful when they happen

If you want to reduce the power of tellas, limit Altair so they can't have ongoing recursive pressure, or ban the solemn judgment, or ban one of the xyzs. If you want to reduce the power of heroes finish off bubbleman for example.

 

You want decks to be less powerful, not woefully inconsistent blobs that run over you 1/10th of the time, and brick 9/10ths of the time.  

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LionHeart77    65
F0 Wind ups are really fun with this list. Prbly not an A tier deck. But a lot of cool stuff is possible now with emeral and utopic future.

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Hatsuyuki    34

Good thing this shit is only imaginary list. I rather quit YGO than playing in Satellarknight VS Qli  Vs Ritual Beast meta. For god's sake, nobody enjoy playing against "summon Deneb set 4 pass" ,Tower Turbo  and Cannahawk loop  . At least Nekroz and Shaddoll have skillful mirror and it's more fun to play againts them.

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Justin.    742

Rota was something I feel they completely missed. You reduce the consistency of both Tellars and Heroes if you put rota to one.

Why would you want to reduce their consistency?

Reducing consistency is absolutely pointless. You don't want their best plays to be less likely to happen, you want their best plays to be fair and skillful when they happen

If you want to reduce the power of tellas, limit Altair so they can't have ongoing recursive pressure, or ban the solemn judgment, or ban one of the xyzs. If you want to reduce the power of heroes finish off bubbleman for example.
 
You want decks to be less powerful, not woefully inconsistent blobs that run over you 1/10th of the time, and brick 9/10ths of the time.  
Except if you want a deck to remain playable you hit the consistency before the power plays. I can tell you this now, if you limit Altair or ban Triverr the deck instantly falls off the map. Tellars just become a deck full of just normal summons and no real power plays if you hit Altair. The only Tellar xyz that is even close to being ban worthy is Ptolemaeus. But even then, we don't have the busted rank 4/5s that allow you to abuse it.

Why do you think Wind-Ups fell off? Konami utterly destroyed their power plays. Same can be said for Fire Fist post Wolfbark limit.

Also, limiting rota is actually something that should have happened to address both decks and even Nekroz. If anything, hitting rota to one hurts Tellars more than Heroes considering Heroes can get to Stratos via their 3 ECall or 3 Hero Lives. By hitting rota Tellars are forced to adapt by playing triple Unuk, Foolish, or even Skybridge.

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»Pengwan    7779
I think Triverr is definitely ban worthy

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+Urthor    10297

This is just crazy

 

 

For one thing, if the objective is to keep them on the playing field but worse than they currently are, maybe they just need a gentler hit than Altair to 1???  Rather than burning their consistency, just find a realistic way to make em a little bit worse, not a lot, SIM to zero would probably go a long way for one thing.  I don't know how "they need to be kept playable" means their consistency has to die rather than their power, you just tune down the power to where you want it to be, just not as much as Altair to 1 would be.  

 

For another: what justification is there that those decks to remain playable?  How exactly do Tellas and Darklaw.dek play fair and interactive Yugioh atm?  Or ever?  They're both pretty much in the flood or die category, it's not like they've provided cool or neat interaction like the Shaddoll mirror has, and the BA mirror to some extent.  

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Squiddy    9185

everybuddy just rags on konami and their list being flawed, but in reality theres a lot of thought and consideration thats put into every baned list. yugioh is arguably the hardest cart game ever with the most depth and variety each turn, and the game has progressed in a way that its honistly impossible for anybuddy to create a perfect one.

 

plus the power creep made modern decks so close together that the decent decks just replace the good ones when they get hit, which is exactly what happens in this scenario. i mean for petes sake if ur gonna hit nekroz to shit and make DARKLAW a tier 1 deck, how do u not bring back heavy storm? its literally a set 4 format thats easily a billion times worse than before. was really looking forward to a complete and total revamp of the list and game mechanics (|:|)

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Patrick Hoban    6368
On it being similar to what Konami is expected to release, they will be worlds apart even if Konami had the exact same list with the exception of leaving Trishula legal. That card defines the entire format and dictates everything from what decks are good to what cards are played in them.
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»Logic    2049
As someone that doesn't play ygo and can say objectively without understanding the format, its very clear that there was no game theory tied to this.

It was changes to a few power levels of decks by some arbitrary amount to hope that other lists could compete, and a total lack of play testing.

This project had so much potential for them, and I feel they whipped up a half-ass project in a week and hope it turns up well.

I have the respect for Jim for pushing the game, but I wish he would of built a team on how to market something like this. The project lacks multiple objectives to really validate itself

-a total lack of a mission statement as to illustrate what the goals of the project are. Without one, people can't even ridicule the list because they have no idea where the project is suppose to go.

-a lack of beta testing doesn't even confirm the list is enkoyable, let alone refreshing.

-there doesn't seem to be any actual game theory that developed how the list came to be. My perception is that ARG went "lets ask the pros how'd they change the numner of XY and Z cards and meet them all in the middle". This is illustrated by the number of semi limits in the format.

-The fact that cards that are currently restricted for no good reason are still restricted, and that other FTK enablers remain open is indicative of bullshit decks (reversal quiz and Blaze Fenix has zero need in any format, I'm sure there are plenty of more updated cards that fall in the same catagory,) and it comes off to me as publishing an incomplete project.

I want to see this project do well, but I think their entire premise, execution, PR, and lack of real foundation of how to develop the list will lead to a very poor response at first.
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Catasterism    400

I think ARG was a bit pre-emptive on this releasing a list that could easily have been produced by Konami right before Konami's own list. There is the possibility, however small it might be, that Konami manages to 1-up ARG now with better changes, more unlimits to old decks, or with an almost identical list with bans on degenerate cards. However if ARG had not rushed this out, and instead waited a few weeks, they could have analysed the Konami list to ensure they were not inadvertently creating a too similar format. There is the risk of any hype created by ARG format being diverted by the "real list" coming out right afterwards - particularly since the list is delayed already and people are gagging for it.

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Drewsifer    50

I believe ARG needed a list in time for their 25k and since Konami was failing to provide one (which would result in inadequate amount of time for testing) they had to put matters into their own hands. 

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mwnhydropump19    169
Yea arg needed to have their list our asap because if they waited after konami's list no one would have really cared for the arg list. The the goal was to get people excited and stop the wait for konami to release their list. Also does no one think nekroz can still be a deck? This happens every time when the best deck gets hit to where it just has to adjust and it still ends up being the best anyways.
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+scuzzlebutt    23607
ive thought a project m style community run format would be awesome for yugioh as a whole for a while now. in the very worst case scenario, it teaches the community what smashers are learning now -- that they arent all the best game designers in the world -- and i think having this demonstrates to players could actually help us have more productive conversations about the real banlist in the long run. if it turns out even slightly better than the real format i guess thats cool too, but this doesnt need to be a good format in order for it to be good for the community by any means
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»Logic    2049
^^ I like this. Everyone thinks their entitled to have feedback without thinking about game theory and long-term consequences because they topped a few events.

The issue I see, is that we have Newgioh, ARGioh,any other custom format is just going to lower the validity and playability of custom formats.

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+Mascis    4560
the only way for these custom formats to have any sort of traction is if they are supported by both TOs and the player base. And these people have to have some pull in Yu-gi-oh community. Like, if I started a custom format with my local play group, it won't be credible because nobody knows who we are. It might be a fun, but nobody but us will play it because it's not being offered at big events.

I think it's telling that the people in the position to do so are offering alternatives to Konami's Yu-Gi-Oh

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Soul    7971

As someone that doesn't play ygo and can say objectively without understanding the format, its very clear that there was no game theory tied to this.

It was changes to a few power levels of decks by some arbitrary amount to hope that other lists could compete, and a total lack of play testing.

This project had so much potential for them, and I feel they whipped up a half-ass project in a week and hope it turns up well.

I have the respect for Jim for pushing the game, but I wish he would of built a team on how to market something like this. The project lacks multiple objectives to really validate itself

-a total lack of a mission statement as to illustrate what the goals of the project are. Without one, people can't even ridicule the list because they have no idea where the project is suppose to go.

-a lack of beta testing doesn't even confirm the list is enkoyable, let alone refreshing.

-there doesn't seem to be any actual game theory that developed how the list came to be. My perception is that ARG went "lets ask the pros how'd they change the numner of XY and Z cards and meet them all in the middle". This is illustrated by the number of semi limits in the format.

-The fact that cards that are currently restricted for no good reason are still restricted, and that other FTK enablers remain open is indicative of bullshit decks (reversal quiz and Blaze Fenix has zero need in any format, I'm sure there are plenty of more updated cards that fall in the same catagory,) and it comes off to me as publishing an incomplete project.

I want to see this project do well, but I think their entire premise, execution, PR, and lack of real foundation of how to develop the list will lead to a very poor response at first.

i mean, you could've just chalked it up to lack of transparency. judging by hoban's post, i have to believe that he played a role in creating this list. there's no problem with that. but the head honcho of ARG should really be more open about this. you are completely right that they were lacking a clear objective, and you were probably right in your assumption in who they asked. probably a bunch of recognizable players who travel to ARGs. they really had a chance to do something great here, but i feel they dropped the ball. now the game is saturated with 1 more custom banlist that isn't even designed with any specific goal in mind but to seemingly make things more "fair". 

 

I love how itt we act like ARG might use their banlist to increase their sales even though Konami does the same thing every list and you all still play

this is completely irrelevant.

 

 

You guys thinking Jim is willing to throw away all the stuff he's built for a quick buck make me giggle.

i was already turned off by the arg stream charging 5 fucken dollars to have emotes and being able to watch replays. 

 

^has a point. you usually don't attempt to monetize until you have a steady userbase, or in this case, attendance. poorly timed. 

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jhadd1996    246

Was I the only one wishing and hoping Dragons would go back to 3?

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Punpun    430

This is pretty disappointing to say the least. When Konami releases the list eventually I'm going to have to play two slightly different variations of the same format if I want to compete in the events in my area. I don't think stores are suddenly going to drop the Konami list in favor of the ARG list (although this would help push the idea forward) so its going to be pretty annoying to play two lists without that many differences in them. This also sucks for people who may have already booked travel accommodations, etc for these events who are suddenly locked into playing a full event under this list.

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Dont Forget    610

This could have been done in so many better ways. The lack of transparency is awful and if everything that was said is true with everyone being involved in it not knowing every one else involved in it that means there is no testing of changes and there is one person overseeing it who has final call on all of the changes. That would make the appearance of collusion much higher than there would be from a public committee that also releases an article explaining all of their changes (and lack of changes).

 

Also Joe's idea is a lot better than just a slightly different list from Konami's. It doesn't necessarily have to be that drastic but it should be something significantly different from existing formats. It is a good idea but the execution of it was terrible.

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