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The new Monarch support is finally released and there are certaínly things to discuss about this deck.

 

An overview, what the new support has to offer:

[spoiler]

- Eidos & Idea

These two needs to be mentioned as one, since they serve as the new (& better) Tribute fodder engine for your Monarchs.

Your main play involves summoning Idea, who tutors Eidos from your deck. Eidos' effect will then allow you to Tribute Summon once more during this turn, regardless if you used your NS on Idea.

As you may notice, this setup allows you to summon any Monarch, including the Megas and the 2 new Monarchs. Even better, Eidos is Dark for Mega-Caius and Idea is Light for Mega-Zaborg, so they get their full effects, which are devastating.

 

Did I mention, that Eidos can SS Idea from your graveyard, allowing you to pull another Eidos from your deck to repeat the process every turn? Seems awfully similar, no? Idea in other hand gets you banished Monarch S/T, which is going to be important with the next card.

All of this without excluding all of that awesome S/T support, Monarchs have.

 

The downside to this amazing engine is, that it is very vulnerable to effect negation. Getting Veiler'd really sucks and cripples the play entirely. Nonetheless, it is still incredible, especially since it supports the entire S/T line-up.

It also surpasses pretty much all of the Vassals.

 

- Erebus

This is the sinister Monarch of the 2 new ones.

Its effect is pretty powerful, for what it is. It shuffles 1 card back to the deck without targeting ... and hits everywhere.

More importantly though, it sends 2 Monarch S/T to the graveyard. This is going to important with the effect of The True First Monarch since that equals into an instant draw from it. It is also able to send Pantheism for its search effect or (again) the True First One, to get a free Tribute fodder, if necessary.

But true to its title, Erebus even rules in death. It can recycle any Monarch (+ Majesty's Fiend) from your graveyard, if it remains there. Note, that this includes itself as well.

 

- Aither

It retains the same Monarch S/T effect as its counterpart, but the other effect is different. It summons any Monarch from your deck. Of course, they don't get their effects but they return to your hand. This makes Aither a pseudo searcher for your Tributes with the notable exception of the Fiends.  

Interestingly, you can use this effect during your opponent's turn. This can be quite the troll move, if coupled with Stormforth.

 

- Pantheism of the Monarchs

This is so stupid. The first effect is a simple Trade-In for your Monarch S/T. Considering, you could have some unnecessary ones like multiple Stormforths or the True First One, not such a big cost.

... Especially since its 2nd effect is going to get you another Monarch Spell to replace the discarded one. The Power Tool-esque effect is not giving your opponent any chances at all. For what do you have Tenacity? Reveal the Monarch S/T you want + 1-2 Tenacitys. That's it.

It's a +1 draw engine and searcher rolled in one. Idea even loops that card. Like wtf?

 

- The True First Monarch

Another card, that gives Monarch further draw power. You recycle your sent S/T through Erebus/Aither and get a free draw. A bit slow, since it is a Trap, but the effect can be stacked with multiples and it has another use. It can become a free fodder for a single Tribute, that can be useful. Add Mithra and you could potentially summon 2 Double Tributes.

[/spoiler]

 

I tried myself on an experimental list with the new cards.

[spoiler]

Tributes:

- 1 Caius the Mega Monarch

- 2 Aither the Heaven Monarch

- 3 Erebus the Netherworld Monarch

- 3 Caius the Shadow Monarch

- 3 Majesty's Fiend

 

Vassals:

- 2 Mithra the Thunder Vassal

- 3 Eidos the Netherworld Knight

- 3 Idea the Heaven Knight

 

Spells:

- 1 Foolish Burial

- 2 March of the Monarchs

- 2 The Dominion of the Legendary Monarch

- 3 Pantheism of the Monarchs

- 3 Reinforcement of the Army

- 3 Tenacity of the Monarchs

- 3 The Monarchs Stormforth

 

Traps:

- 3 The True First Monarch

[/spoiler]

Keep in mind, that it isn't streamlined yet. I'm still messing around with ratios or certain choices. But here are some of my reasonings for now.

 

- 3 Erebus & 2 Aither

Due to their S/T clause, I concluded, that these 2 are the most important Monarchs for the deck. Setting up Pandeity is very important to dig for more cards and only those 2 can start that engine without opening it.

In testing, you only need Aither 1-2 times to tutor either Erebus or Mega Caius. Outside of that, it only has Stormforth interactions and serves as more additional copies of its sinister counterpart. Erebus in the other hand is very useful in any time, even T1, where you can force your opponent to play with only 5 cards in their hand. Not to mention, recycling your used Monarchs is highly useful for the grind game.  

 

- 1 Mega Caius & no Mega Zaborg

It goes without saying, that banishing twice with a Chain Destruction effect + 1000 burn damage is awesome. Yet, since Caius doesn't contribute to the draw engine and can be tutored by Aither, I went with only 1.

While Zaborg is a win condition against Extra Deck heavy decks, it is very costly and could leave you vulnerable to OTKs. It eats up a your Tribute Summon this turn, which is a significant cost. I would most definetly side it though. 

 

- Playing Mithra

Now, one may say, that Mithra is just a worse Eidos, but let's not forget, what it does.

In general, Mithra allows you to have a Tribute on the field with only few ways to disrupt it successfully. This can be quite important to play around backrow. Like Idea + Eidos, you are able to get out a Double Tribute, since Mithra allows for another Tribute Summon, while all of the Level 8 Monarchs can be summoned by tributing a Tribute summoned monster. So it can serve as another way to get your Monarchs out and can even be played besides the Knights.

 

- Majesty over Vanity

Really, it's because of the stats. Why isn't Vanity a 'Monarch'? That really blows, since that means, you cannot use it with Tenacity or recycle it with Erebus. Still Majesty + Dominion + March handles a majority of decks, even capable of outright winning the game. Activating your own effects becomes redundant, when your opponent needs to face 2400 to 2800 bodies without Extra Deck and effects.

 

- S/T ratios

You only need 2 of each Monarch S/T at most, due to Pantheism and Tenacity (which are needed at 3). All of them are highly searchable and they are pretty bad T1. The 3rd Stormforth is currently under testing, since it still retains its use for removing pesky threats.

Foolish is very versatile with Erebus. If you don't have Erebus, you can search it with this. If you have Erebus in your grave, Foolish can tutor any Monarch.

Since you want to open up with Idea, you really need RotA. Not sure, if I want to switch the 3rd one with 141.

 

 

I really like, how much stronger Monarch have become. They are still about keeping advantage over your opponent, but are much faster-paced now and the inclusion of Mega Monarchs gave them a big power boost. Their S/T give them huge anti-meta potential and their draw power is insane.

However, consistency is still an issue. While the crazy Pantheism draws helps it, it still sucks a lot to open up without any Monarch. Vassals only had are the worst, since you cannot do anything and Tenacity becomes dead.

 

That's also the reason, why I decided against the other Vassals. All of them require setup, which you simply don't have T1. They are pretty bad blanks and despite their powerful effects, I prefer to consistently get out my Tributes and force my opponent to deal with them. So I made my fodder engine as small as possible.

 

I guess, let's discuss this?

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NB96    859

Is Duality playable in here? Seems like it would go some way towards helping the consistency issue. I know you want to use Idea each turn to setup your tributes but you would only use this if you couldn't already set your move up. Not to mention you don't necessarily need to special summon every single turn when you have TMSF and Tenacity to let you play without them for a turn.

Also I think ROTA would be amazing in this deck if there were another good target to search than Idea, the card adds a good deal of utility but if you could do something like Nekroz and Shaddoll did with their ROTA engine by adding something else (Djinn out, Blazeman/Arma/Thrasher engine) the card be a toolbox for the deck.

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»Tygo    14137
Aither summoning a Majesty from the deck on your opps turn is ridiculous.

Edit: disregard. I should read.

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@Tygo

Good thing, that play isn't possible.

Majesty cannot be Special Summoned and Aither doesn't bypass that.

 

@NB96

Problem with Duality is, that it prevents the use of the better Level 8 Monarchs, as these need either Idea or Mithra + TMSF. Digging for TMSF is pretty bad going first, as there are no targets on the field (except the Mithra + Token combo). Best play with PoD would be Eidos -> Majesty, backing up with the Monarch S/T.

 

Yes, more RotA targets would be a very nice toolbox. I was thinking of Spell Striker, since that one allows you to banish Spells for Idea (that aren't Pantheism) and gets you a free tribute fodder.

But other than that ... are there good Warriors? Without any Extra Deck access, the options become quite limited.
 

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DukeLukewarm    121

There's no reason to play 3 of regular Caius anymore. You simply have far better things to summon.

Have you experimented with Escalation of the Monarchs? The ability to summon Idea during your opponent's turn using a card like Reinforce Truth, as material to tribute summon Erebus/Mega Caius during their turn using Escalation; being able to Tribute Summon Majesty's Fiend on their turn and spending your summons on more aggressive things on your turn; interactions with Stormforth; being able to summon whatever you added with Aither right away instead of having to wait for your turn to come around...

The card helps with of the issues Monarchs inherently have, which is that they deal with problems too damn slowly, by the time you can summon one, chances are the card you are removing has already done its job. It might be that the deck simply doesn't have the consistency to afford playing another card that does jack shit by itself, but I would find it at least worth considering. Most builds in the OCG are using the card very heavily, both regular builds and the Mega Zaborg combo lists.

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NB96    859

Has anybody else cut The True First Monarch? It sucks early game and doesn't get the deck started, if you have two monarch s/t cards in the graveyard you've probably already got going anyway. I think it sucks, it's graveyard effect isn't that good either when you can just banish Eidos to get Idea as your tribute fodder anyway.

This makes me think I should cut Pantheism from 3 copies, I don't want to discard most of my monarch s/t because Tenacity is everything, TMSF is really good to get going, the only ones I want to discard are the ones that you draw multiples of, but I'm running 2 copies of stuff like Dominion and March to avoid drawing doubles and only one copy of Return of the Monarchs.

I think this deck has a good deal of potential.

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kaokien    30

Has anybody else cut The True First Monarch? It sucks early game and doesn't get the deck started, if you have two monarch s/t cards in the graveyard you've probably already got going anyway. I think it sucks, it's graveyard effect isn't that good either when you can just banish Eidos to get Idea as your tribute fodder anyway.

This makes me think I should cut Pantheism from 3 copies, I don't want to discard most of my monarch s/t because Tenacity is everything, TMSF is really good to get going, the only ones I want to discard are the ones that you draw multiples of, but I'm running 2 copies of stuff like Dominion and March to avoid drawing doubles and only one copy of Return of the Monarchs.

I think this deck has a good deal of potential.

Cutting True Monarch is playing the deck wrong. It and pandeity are the best fodder for either/erebus. True's potential shines at giving the deck consistent tribute fodder, otk protection and recyclability. If you find 3 cloggy you can't go wrong with 2, but not running it is simply wrong. Especially considering it's the only card you want to discard with Pandeity. 

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@NB96

Well, considering that discard Tenacity -> banish Pantheism is getting you the same search plus an extra card, I don't mind discarding stuff for it. When opening up bad, having Pantheism really fixes bad hands. 

 

Yes, the true First Monarch is rather bricky early on, but the banish the free Tribute are useful to your plays. Probably not worth the full set though. 1-2 should be really enough and you can always decide to recycle it with Idea.

 

How well does Return work for you? I had in my very first draft, but it got kicked out due to it being rather bricky and Aither does pretty much the same, with added favour of getting your plays ready in the graveyard.   

 

@DukeLukewarm

I disagree on Vanilla Caius. If you don't have single Tributes, you are going to have more brick hands. It's not entirely unlikely, that you open up with only Eidos or the True First Monarch, in which case, Majesty is not enough, especially when your opponent has something, that needs to removed. Caius commiting suicide is actually pretty useful as finisher, even more so if stacked with its Mega form.

Having Majesty + Vanilla Caius is plenty enough though for Level 6s. Maybe Vanity's Fiend for a stronger Stun.

 

Escalation is useful for more pre-emptive plays, but couldn't you just stun them in the first place? What kind of responste would this deck fear, to warrant quick answers by summoning the Monarchs?

 

 

Some further notes:

- emem under Dominion is like a Circus without direction. Sacking Feather Duster is a thing, but unitl then, they are doing nothing.

- Mithra's token preventing BA from playing is pure Divine Comedy (until they hit Fiendish Rhino)

- If Noden stays legal in the TCG until the release of the Structure Deck , it's going to be hilarious. Looping Eidos with it is glorious.

- This deck is rather vulnerable against OTKs. Really don't like playing against Atlanteans, who can easily out the Spells. 

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petqwe    286

For your information, EMEm plays Breaker and may also side Eccentric.

 

And if you are concered about OTK, you always have the option to play Battle Fader right?

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Berdversary    181
Most lists I've seen main at least 1 Eccentrick, but no more than 2.

Some narrower outs include Sorcerer Pendulum effect, Partnaga/Silver Claw and Mirror Conductor.

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NB96    859
Yes ok I'll go back up to 2 of The True First Monarch but nobody is convincing me that 3 is correct ever.

I'm playing return because one of my problems is having tribute monsters in the first place. I'm playing 3 Aither, 3 Erebus, 3 Majesty's Fiend and a Caius (I think) but I'm losing games because I summon one and then just lose steam. Drawing Idea is great t1 but if you don't have a monarch you aren't doing anything. I'm playing 2 right now but it might be better at 1, I just think having it as an option for Pantheism to search is handy. I might go to 3 Caius because it gives me more disruption with Escalation but idk.

That's another problem with ROTA too, having Idea without a tribute is useless. I'll go on the DN database later and scour for any other warriors you could search instead of Idea for w/e reason.

I really think this deck should run triple Upstart and 2-3 Duality. Duality might not be great early game but that's if you already have a good hand, and if you have a bad hand with TMSF then Duality helps you get the monarch you need to make it live next turn. If Satellarknights can get away with running 2 Duality in their main, then a deck that doesn't use Altair every single turn can too I think.

I don't want to make my build too similar to Frog Monarchs since these new guys help the deck a bucket load, but Battle Fader might also be worthwhile just to not get OTK'd. The deck has hardly any defence but I think that's playing with fire.

The problem with all of this is space of course. Needing to run all of these monarch s/t is a pain. TMSF and Tenacity are always going to be in the deck of course, but then you need 3 Pantheism, 2 March, possibly 2 Dominion, 2-3 The True First Monarch, 2-3 Escalation etc. It's hard to fit anything else in when you need to put all that shit in to. Idk if there's 8 spaces for my Upstarts, Duality's and Battle Faders. But at least it gives us something to think about.

How has the Mega-Zaborg build been treating people?

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Careyious    21

A few cards I've been thinking/testing at the moment are BLS, The Monarchs Erupt

 

The Monarchs Erupt is a card I've actually been liking it a lot, mostly because of how it kind of just turns off Nekroz's ability to generate advantage since they lose the ability to Trish you, they can only out your monsters with Valk or using DA, and they can't use anything in the extra effectively. It's one of those card that kind of let you just seal the deal after building a strong board. There main downside is that after they remove your tribute summoned monster it last's until the end of your turn, so no Eos into Idea, BUT Eos can still special summon Idea and you can use The True First Monarch for 1 Tribute Monarchs and with the use of Dominion, you just play as normal. 

 

I'm not sure if BLS hasn't been mentioned because it's obvious, but it's a stupid card that lets you win games almost instantly. Everything is either LIGHT or DARK, I'm not sure there's any reason not to run it.

 

This card kind of seems bad since it doesn't hit Spells (which are 50% of most decks at the moment) but in practicality, it kind of does a pretty decent job anyway since when you think about the main problem cards that are: Hand Traps, Effect Negation, cards that respond to the Summon of a monster, and Trishula (both versions). 

 

Also, how are you guys finding space to run 3 Upstarts and 2-3 Duality? Since I've been finding deck space super tight, mostly because there's a lot of required monarch S/Ts you need to run. This is what I've been running, haven't really been able to test the side-deck yet

 

[spoiler]9d4ed31fd9.jpg[/spoiler]

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NB96    859

Some thoughts:

I think 3 Aither and 3 Erebus are mandatory. They are some of the most powerful monsters in the deck and are so easy to summon.

I think Mega Caius should be at 2-3, the card is a blowout whenever it resolves, just ridiculous.

Majesty is a win condition.

BLS seems like it should be good but I don't know whether the space is better suited to a card that helps get the engine going initially, for example One for One. You'd have to assess what is more important, the blowout factor from BLS or the extra consistency of One for One getting Idea.

I'm only running one Monarchs Erupt and one Escalation also, considering cutting them. They just never do anything for me, but being able to search them could be handy. Most matches I lose are because I don't have enough tribute summons to keep going after they kill the first one, Return of the Monarchs has been excellent for me in terms of fixing this, it's searchable whereas Aither isn't so you can't always rely on using that to give yourself more tribute summons for the following turn.

I'd only run 2 Dominion. You don't really want multiples of any of those Monarch s/t with the exception of Pantheism since it can discard itself, but at least with stuff like March for example, you can still play both if you draw 2. 2 Dominion is a complete dead draw because it's a field spell so you can't even use both.

The only reason I've been losing with this deck so far is that I can't seem to draw the tribute summons. Getting to Idea is easy but if you draw just one of those tributes and it dies then you're in trouble since you can't play until you get another. Has anyone else been experiencing this or is it just me?

Also if anyone wants to test with these cards msg me on DN

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Just saying, but if there is no space for these cards, there is always the Side Deck. For example, Erupt being a one-sided Skill Drain is pretty strong and can win games against certain decks.

 

Maybe settling on a rudimentary skeleton could be helpful for the discussion? What I could gather from the posts here:

 

Monarchs:

- 3 Erebus

- 2-3 Aither

- 2-3 Majesty's Fiend

- 1-2 Mega Caius

- 0-1 Mega Zaborg

- (Caius?)

 

I think, the Monarch line-up is pretty obvious.

As NB96 said, Erebus and Aither are vital. You could just play 2 Aither though, since it is recyclable by Erebus and space is a big issue for this deck.

 

Mega Caius is crack. No question. However, it is pretty bad, if going first. Since you can search it with Return and Aither, I don't see the full set being necessary.

 

Mega Zaborg is a bit overrated. Nuking half of the Extra Deck is crippling, but against some decks, it's actually pretty useless and quite risky. Try nuking the Extra Deck of Nekroz, it's not getting you that far. I could see it Side Deck staple though.

 

Now about Vanilla Caius; is anyone playing it (besides me)? I still find it useful, in case, I cannot drop a Level 8 (e.g. having only Eidos or Mithra in hand) and banishing on summon is still powerful as ever. Being less costly than its Mega ver. can be a selling point for it, despite its watered-down effect.

 

Vassals:

- 3 Idea

- 3 Eidos

- (Mithra?)

- (Garum?)

- (Landrobe?)

 

Again, pretty obvious for the most part. Only the actual Vassals themselves are questionable.

I can attest for Mithra's usefulness. Having another way to bring out Tributes aside Idea, that can also work besides them, is very useful and it's pretty good against BA because of that Token. But since the bricking factor with the Vassals is a factor to consider, I wouldn't be suprised, if only the Knights are run.

 

Spells:

- 3 Pantheism

- 3 Tenacity

- 3 TMSF

- 2 March

- 1-2 Dominion

- 0-1 Return

- max. RotA

- 0-1 Foolish

- 0-1 One for One

 

Traps:

- 0-1 Escalation

- 0-1 Erupt

- 1-2 The True First Monarch

 

The trinity, that is Tenacity, Pantheism and TMSF are too good, to play less copies. The others aren't necessary at 3 though and 1-2 are plenty. Tenacity and Pantheism give you enough ways, to get those Spells ASAP and playing less opens up space for further cards.

 

March & Dominion are the protection against the Extra Deck. These are pretty important against the meta.

I tested Return again, since NB96's argument convinced me. It helps, to fetch Erebus and Aither, which is really important to continuously have Monarchs in your hand. But more than 1 seems unnecessary, since Return -> Aither supplies you plenty with Monarchs from there on. Of course, getting 2 Monarchs each turn is appealing, but necessary though? imo, not really.

RotA searches Idea. No other reason is needed. Though being able to include a toolbox through this would be nice. Armageddon Knight could be quite interesting with its ability to tutor Eidos and more importantly Erebus. 

Speaking of which, Foolish pretty much searching Erebus or potentially other Monarchs should give it enough importance, to be included. 

 

The True First is really important and the best one to send with Erebus/Aither alongside Pantheism. More accessible fodder is nice, since Dominion requires having a Tribute on the field and the recycle effect not only supplies you with enough fodder for both Monarchs and Pantheism, but netting an extra draw is always nice.  

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NB96    859
You wouldn't just randomly tech Zaborg by itself though, you focus a whole build around it. You play triple Elder Entity N'Tss and triple Psyframe Lord Omega, so Zaborg can pop itself and send all 6 to the grave, then you can kill their extra deck and also pop three cards on their field with N'Tss at once, and shuffle everything back in with Psyframe Lord Omega to do again with the next Zaborg. I don't think you can play Dominion in that version because it requires you to have an extra deck but killing 6 cards in their extra and then 3 on their field should cripple most decks. I'd hate to send Herald of the Arc Light against Nekroz and most times it sucks, but consider that if you send all their synchros to the graveyard then suddenly it's much harder to OTK you because they can't get Unicore for free, they must tribute Shurit for one of their rituals then banish it for the other, even then two rituals typically isn't quite enough to OTK, the deck usually needs the third ritual summon to end the game that turn.

I don't know if the Zaborg build is the best but it's quite a cool approach to the deck.

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DukeLukewarm    121

Don't underestimate the impact of Escalation. I'd definitely always play at least 1, and many builds in the OCG so far run the full 3.

 

And Dominion is still a fine 1-of in the Zaborg build because of the level reduction effect. Reducing an Aither to level 6 means that you can just tribute Eidos for her, fetch Zaborg, summon True First, then on their turn summon Mega Zaborg using Idea+True First with Escalation, make Mega Zaborg blow himself up, and since you tributed a LIGHT you get to choose what gets sent to the Graveyard. I also honestly wouldn't ever play less than 3 Aither.

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The Ween    237
Deck devastation virus seems pretty ideal considering that two thirds of the ocg is EMem right now. Maybe it'd be too difficult to setup? Idk. A dark centric build with ddv and EEV would probably be pretty sick, since it's a way to fully capitalize on Erebus. Also, level eater/reasoning/monster gate seem like they'd be cool here. Setting up grave with spells, setting up plays by bringing out tribute fodder, and having a pseudo freeborn frog that lets mega Caius banish two seems like a good deal to me.

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NB96    859
Found some images related to the deck on Facebook for what it's worth:

12039590_948928531840413_112542379242562
Tournament Recipe : The Legendary Monarch (Win 3 - Lose 1)
Unofficial Tournament

12002748_948743805192219_371236532113498

Tournament Recipe : The Legendary Monarch (Winner)
Unofficial Tournament
12036785_948742991858967_828367879129585

Tournament Recipe : The Legendary Monarch (TOP 8, Win 3 - Lose 1)
Individual Tournament : Blue Horse CS -Yu-Gi-Oh!-
Date : 20th September 2015

12003171_949066751826591_563658115166013


Tournament Recipe : Monarch (Win 6 - Lose 1)
Team Tournament : Gotcha CS 3
Date : 20th September 2015

12002263_949095235157076_887873937265281

EMem seems to be the most popular deck still but this deck only came out a couple of days ago so I don't think that's an entirely fair representation of how popular the deck will/wont be yet.

Dominion isn't as popular as I had thought it might be, and Mega Zaborg is being used as a one-of tech rather than having entire decks built around it like I had earlier suggested.

People are also teching a small handful of those exclusive Vassals, I can see a couple of Mithra and one Landrobe in the decklists.

One for One is seeing play since it can get Idea the Heaven Knight straight from the deck but we might not need to use it because we have triple ROTA.

Escalation is being played in 2-3 copies, I haven't liked the card that much but it does let this deck interrupt the opponent during their own turn, imagine Escalation being chained to a Nekroz ritual spell or Shaddoll Fusion for Majesty's or Vanity's Fiend.
  • Upvote 1

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petqwe    286

This deck is crazy as FUCK. FUCK THIS GAME.

Just when you think EMEm will dominate the meta, we suddenly have such shits.

 

These things make Burning Abyss look like a joke.

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NB96    859
I think Erebus should be maxed since it gives you more good plays going first. But perhaps that's unneccessary when you have Aither and Mega Zaborg who do something even when the opponent has nothing on the field on the first turn.

Allure of Darkness seems playable in here, you don't REALLY want to to draw Eidos tbh, you want him in the deck for Idea. It would also help fix cloggy hands by getting rid of excess Caius/Erebus. Then again Eidos fixes thos himself by giving you tribute fodder for those tribute monsters in your hand so maybe there are better choices.

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