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YGO Idea Pad/Things to Consider

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Kadara    39

I'm really liking this thread out of all of dgz right now, a lot of well-thought ideas are being presented.

 

That said, and this was something I was wondering. I'm referencing the original OP mainly, and also anyone else who contributed to such ideas on the issue of abusing the pendulum mechanic by combining it with non-pendulum cards that like to be special summoned from the hand (Heroes, Madolche, etc). Did you end up testing these ideas, and if yes and you're reading this, what were your conclusions?

 

I will elaborate a bit about my concerns. In theory, such interactions are really neat and look very powerful, but in practice, how often do you get them to work? You mentioned the Igknight/Hero interactions, or later the Majespecter/Hero interactions, for example, and I will use the Majespecter/Hero one as an example for my point. Yes, I can see the very clear merit in combining the two. However, I feel there is an inherent risk in combining two (or more) such diverse archetypes. If you have your engine going, and you have scales up, summoning Majespecters and plussing, summoning Mist and having Dark Law at the ready next to Majespecter backrow proection, we're good, the ball's rolling. What happens when you're stuck with the completely wrong combinations of these cards?

 

Using Majespecters and Heroes as the example still. These two archetypes are very different. More importantly, regarding my point, they do not share a common "core" of library manipulation that allows you to smooth out the interaction between them. Which basically means you're relegated to relying on your starting 5 (or 6) to give you the proper combination to go off. This means you could play games where your hybrid deck draws the hero cards and plays like a hero deck, or games where it draws the majespecter cards and plays like a majespecter deck, or games where it draws the proper combination of both to play like the hybrid you intended it to be, or (and here is my concern) draws the absolutely wrong halves of both decks and you just sit there staring at majespecter trap, majespecter spell, luster, mask change.

 

I'm not knocking the idea down by any means, I'm just really interested in the concept and I was wondering if any of you who've given this more thought than me feel this to be an issue, or a non-issue, or if I'm missing something entirely.

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dexer008    805

Lately I've seen several decks pop up trying to abuse Psyframe Omega's second effect in retrieving banished cards back to the graveyard, and it's got me thinking about the card. While I've seen breakthrough skill and galaxy cyclone mentioned, I've also seen mezuki talked about in zombies for more revival strategy. From there, banish and zombie had me remember one of my favorite cards to play; necroface. Omega can be used to bring back banished necrofaces to be used with dragon's mirror or creeping darkness or whatever else such as chaos monsters.

 

We also now, unlike the past have uni-zombie to foolish necro to the grave turn 1, meaning the limiting of rota for armageddon knight or mathematician underhinders the ability to set up in the grave. We also have Norden now in the tcg, which combined with uni creates a t1 omega with necroface banished;

 

1)summon uni, use effect targeting itself, dump necro.

2) Activate instant fusion summoning norden, who will summon necro, Synchro with norden and and uni and create omega.

3)Since norden has left the field, he will now banish the on field necroface and activate it's effect, banishing 5. 

 

I'm not sure how good this deck would be considering you need to draw ways to banish the necroface each turn, as well as come bosh there will be multiple solemn cards to stop plays, but I think this idea might have potential. 

 

EDIT: Didn't see Silverdudes post on the first page, but I would like to add this idea to his to the synchro zombie idea.

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Mr Dragon    312

I think Igknights have the potential to be very strong this format, even with Magicians coming up around the corner. Nearly everything blinds second. Against Pendulum decks you don't even need to draw floodgates necessarily, as Wavering Eyes can be autowin if you resolve it. The deck even has multiple ways to search level 4 tuners to make Ignister (or Stardust Spark Dragon).

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Ostaph    73

The best decks always have the ability to beat the other deck by doing what they are supposed to do with their plays while not heavily relying on traps/floodgates (Nekroz post Djinn as the last example and dawning pendulum decks as current/future examples). Other decks' engines/plays aren't as strong or consistent so they have to mix in cards that keep them alive while waiting to get their chance to otk or win the grind game (most rank 4 decks of the past as an example, or Volcanics).

 

Common knowledge, I know.

 

What often happens, though is that when former best or at least very good decks get overpowered by newer strategies, they try to compensate that by going the "additional cards" route. As an example, Kozmo players are now realizing that their deck might not be as good as they thought and that the chances of winning when just playing the Kozmo game aren't as hight as they would like. So they start to think about floodgates to support their gameplan.

 

This is often a breaking point of a deck. When you see the number of unsearchable cards (mainly floodgates) in a deck rise, it's almost always a bad sign for the theme - at least temporarily, as more support is sometimes on the horizon. When decks cannot win on a regular basis with their themed cards plus heavy synergy support (which most of the time is searchable and/or triggers themed effs and thus makes an engine), they simply are not the best deck.

 

Thus, identifying the best deck nowadays often equals a) counting the number of trap cards in current lists, b) counting the number of unsearchables in current lists and c) counting the number of non-themed cards in general in current lists. In these current days the best archetype almost always wins (specific bad matchups or hardcounter floodgates aside). When choosing a deck to play successfully at events one should keep that in mind as a basis. Next steps are of course further evaluating single card choices and tech.

 

Maybe all this is a bit trivial but I had the idea on my mind and just wanted to type it out to make it clearer for myself.

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foofatron    38

I mentioned this in my zombie thread but I think this can apply to the newer pendulum decks due to king of the feral imps.

 

You can search mimicry with force strix, pendulum it and xyz, banish it to search readiness, and make omega. You then put mimicry back into the graveyard and you will never take damage again until your opponent outs omega and when they do you still won't be taking any damage so you can just remake omega next turn to lock them out of the duel.

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Indignation    2858
That chaos dragon deck that was on args page that topped a regionals going 8-1 was pretty interesting. I like that it can explode or play passive and make your opponent commit so you can crush them. There probably can be a more efficient build than what he was running too.

I mean 3 gorz 3 maxxc and 3 damage jugglers means your not dying lol.

I would link to it but I'm on mobile FB app and too lazy to go through browser but you can find it on the arg Facebook posts I think and I believe there's a YouTube video of it and him explaining his choices.

Qutoed from the post:
His matchups:
Round 1: Fluffal
Round 2: Kozmo
Round 3: Kozmo
Round 4: Geargia (Only loss)
Round 5: Kozmo
Round 6: Infernoid
Round 7: PePe Majespecter (against Patrick Hoban)
Round 8: Tellars
round 9: Kozmo

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Kanapesh    99

If anyone thinks this looks cool and wants to give that a shot, this is what this post is made for

 

Dragonpit Magician is a LV7 WATER monster, it's searchable with Pendulum Call and can be used for Moray and Sacred Sword of Seven Stars or Mermail Abyssgaios

Ice Barrier monster are all searchable, and two of them are LV7, also WATER Attribute.

Both of them can be Pendulum Summoned, and one of them restricts the opponent to using only one Spell/Trap per turn

 

I have no honest idea what to do with this, butI like this little interaction

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Muntz    52

500px-XSaberPalomuro-TSHD-EN-C-UE.jpg

This is searchable off of King of the Feral Imps and makes Naturia Beast with Magical Abductor, Gem-Knight Garnet or Performage Hat Tricker (searchable). It's practically a searchable autowin in the Performage mirror atm and could have similar potential vs Magicians.

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ibGehring+    1409
Don't they just summon any level 4 + hat tricker (searchable) to out this "auto win" ?

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Ostaph    73

Spellcaster + Jigabyte is also an out.

 

Don't forget though that Juggler searches the missing Hat Tricker if needed. That makes 3 Juggler, 2 Jiga, 1 Eater, 1 Hat Tricker as cards that are played as outs. One of those + any other lvl4 gets rid of Nat Beast. and if worst comes to worst, ramming Plushfire gets you a Juggler, which in turn you can ram and get Hat Tricker for next turn (if you survive).

 

But still, a Naturia Beast t1 can put your opp on a very short clock. Magicians might have a harder time dealing with it as they will usually play less of the above mentioned cards.

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Muntz    52

The Jigabyte engine is suboptimal and I don't think is ran by the majority, which leaves the real outs people have as 3 Juggler + 1 Hat Tricker, if they even run the Hat Tricker. This means that if they have the out, they're skipping their battle phase to do it as well as taking a -1. On top of this, any commonly played out, including suboptimal things like Archfiend Eccentrick, Samurai Dino etc, are all outed by pairing it with a Pleiades which is relatively easy to do. 

 

The biggest selling point of this is that it's searchable and only takes 2 slots in your side.

 

EDIT:

The card's comparable to the Djinn lock but you don't lose the game when it's outed. 

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wduartes    75
maybe im missing something, but how do you do nat beast, feral imps and ptolemaius with a 5 card hand?

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Ostaph    73

You obviously have to normal the tuner.

You obviously have to special summon the rest to get to such a field.

This only be done by summoning 5 level4s to overlay 2 for King, 2 for Ptolemaeus and having one left for Beast.

So you need scales and 5 level 4s.

Dracoslayer, Plushfire and Wavering Eyes and another lvl4 earth can do it.

Draco eff on Plush to get another Plush and a level 4 (best Juggler)

Wavering on both to get another 4 and another Draco.

That makes 2 on field and 2 in extra plus a scale (plus the Draco in extra, which in this case is useless)

Make King to get the tuner and dump Juggler in grave.

Get Mirror with Juggler and activate scales. Summon 2 Plush from extra and the level4 earth.

Normal the tuner and make Ptolemaeus and Beast.

 

There should be other ways, but that's what I figured out pretty fast. I would not call that "relatively easy to do". If your opponent would get salty and say some stuff about god hands in such a scenario, you could not even blame him imho. But like I said, there could be other ways.

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Muntz    52

I'm basing this all of following list adjusted to siding ofc (-1 Breaker -1 Diamond Dire Wolf +1 Palomuro +1 Naturia Beast)

LVb5tbq.png

 

These are the more generic combos to get you there. Note: Magicial Abductor counts as both a low scale as well as EARTH monster in any combo with Luster Pendulum;

 

Luster Pendulum + 4 Level 4 monsters (1 low scale, 1 EARTH, 1 Trick Clown/Damage Juggler/Plushfire)

Luster Pendulum + Brilliant Fusion/Foolish + 3 Level 4 monsters (1 low scale, 1 EARTH) 

Luster Pendulum + Soul Charge/Instant Fusion + 3 Level 4 monsters (1 low scale, 1 EARTH)

Brilliant Fusion/Foolish + Soul Charge/Instant Fusion + 3 Level 4 monsters (Ability to set scales)

 

There's also other combos which include getting 3 counters on Abductor, Wavering Eyes, hard drawing the Tuner as well as Performage things, but they're too specific to really give a blanket formula.

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muzzy    92

I like the idea but not the look of the deck, do you really need 3 Hat Tricker, Soul Charge, 3 Breaker and 3 Instant Fusion?, couldn't they be replaced by some cards in the side deck plus warning. Having Nat Beast plus Warning means you basically auto win unless they opened up Trick Clown+ 2 of Hat Tricker/Jigabyte/Nefarious 

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Muntz    52

I'll assume you're asking about those cards post-side. Firstly, what are you you getting at with me "really needing" the cards? Need them for what? For me to properly answer that you'd have to ask what those cards aren't doing?

 

When going first you need every card in your hand to be live to consistently do something in a combo deck, cards like Solemn Warning/Maxx "C" etc are only good when paired with a  decent field which they don't help to create. On top of that, the cards are only good before your opponent has a board, so drawing them after turn 1 is really suboptimal and guess what, that's when you're most likely to draw them. Does it make sense to run cards that are only good when you open them, yet, the odds are heavily against you to open them? If you were to run enough to see them consistently T1 (5 minimum for a measly coin flip), you're upping your chances of bricking as well as filling your deck with terrible draws.

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»neptune    3789

I'm kinda coming back to this game, and I've been playing Kozmo since.

 

Honestly, I'm having major issues beating PePe consistently. I'm trying out side cards such as :

 

  • XYZ Universe - to no avail; literally gets destroyed before I'm ever able to use it
  • Time-Spice Trap Hole - I actually think this card is fucking awful vs Pepe because of the 20+ matches I've played vs that deck, they Diamond Dire/bait with whatever and then completely go off cuz I have no defense
  • Magical Spring - Not enough sample size, but the times I chained this to Wavering Eyes or whatever actually requires itself to get destroyed, I won the game promptly. I'll get more testing done with this card tomorrow.

I personally think I might try shit like Flying "C" or Battle Fader (halting the battle phase seems like a super huge thing vs pepe tbh). The main issue is the amount of options PePe has, along with the ability to play out of everything. Really need a blowout card to win this match up tbh.

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ibGehring+    1409
If you can make Dank Law and protect it you should be all gravy.

Kozmo can play the MC2 engine quite easy. Especially once Soartrooper is available.

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muzzy    92

I'll assume you're asking about those cards post-side. Firstly, what are you you getting at with me "really needing" the cards? Need them for what? For me to properly answer that you'd have to ask what those cards aren't doing?

 

When going first you need every card in your hand to be live to consistently do something in a combo deck, cards like Solemn Warning/Maxx "C" etc are only good when paired with a  decent field which they don't help to create. On top of that, the cards are only good before your opponent has a board, so drawing them after turn 1 is really suboptimal and guess what, that's when you're most likely to draw them. Does it make sense to run cards that are only good when you open them, yet, the odds are heavily against you to open them? If you were to run enough to see them consistently T1 (5 minimum for a measly coin flip), you're upping your chances of bricking as well as filling your deck with terrible draws.

But opening Multiple Breaker or Multiple Instant Fusion is also not good, and you don't want to be playing Breaker T1.

Also can we start pooling ideas for Fully Powered Performapal and Friends deck because we have full knowledge of every Kozmo card now and it looks like if its Kozmo vs PePe with no hate mained against each other PePe should win the majority of matches. 

So to start the discussion off do we main Clash of the Dracorivals because it gives us easy access to Ignister which punishes the Kozmo ships. Opening Clash with Joker or Monkey is better than opening Luster+Plush.

or

Do we go the route of dropping an unbreakable board which OCG do but try and do it with Rafflesia, Giant Hand, Infinity, Pleiades and other Extra Deck monsters that interact with your opponent.

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Muntz    52

Arguing that you shouldn't play a card at 3 because you don't want to open multiples is absurd, the odds of that happening is just over 4%.

 

If an unsearchable card is good enough to make your list it should always be maxed out, otherwise it probably wasn't good enough.

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Berdversary    181
Even the you can still use Breaker to trigger Plushfire T1

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»victor    6400

If anyone thinks this looks cool and wants to give that a shot, this is what this post is made for

 

Dragonpit Magician is a LV7 WATER monster, it's searchable with Pendulum Call and can be used for Moray and Sacred Sword of Seven Stars or Mermail Abyssgaios

Ice Barrier monster are all searchable, and two of them are LV7, also WATER Attribute.

Both of them can be Pendulum Summoned, and one of them restricts the opponent to using only one Spell/Trap per turn

 

I have no honest idea what to do with this, butI like this little interaction

 

I think one difference between the TCG and the OCG is that we have Norden and they do not.

 

This is significant because Pendulum decks do not typically/easily send monsters to the graveyard, but without Norden, there is no loss, nothing you are missing out on.

 

There are a whole lot of other reasons like Joker + Monkeyboard, letting Pend decks recover better in the OCG compared to TCG, etc.

------

 

That background is interesting to consider because of what it means for Atlantean Dragoons.

 

It has 0 DEF, so it also works with Masked Chameleon, as does Marksman for Gungnir. That lets you play Vector Pendulum (3 Scale) and Painful Decision and Masked Chameleon won't just have 1 target.

 

Given that Mathematician is a 1, the only deck with 6 cards that enable Norden T1 is Atleanteans with 3 Prince and 3 Undine.

 

And you get to play Unexpected Dai with Genex Controller (+Vector gives you DARKs for Allure), and you can play Sea Dragoons of Draconia as a 7 Scale, whom Spike can also search.

 

Going into Ragnazero with Dragoons, and Performage Mirror Conductor (3 Scale) is cool.

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The Ween    237
Sounds cool, but also seems to have a lot of normal summons. Also, adding 3 undine 2 controllers, a clown engine, chameleons, and draconia is a huge addition to an already extremely large deck, and you'd have to drop cards like pieces of the mermail engine for it to work. While this still isn't horrible, less waters means less likelihood for a bunch of in hand waters which reduces combo potential with megalo. Idk the whole deck seems like it's just Another rank 4 deck except that it trades consistency for more floating and cool tricks.

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SmallAcacia    0

http://i.imgur.com/VKejX16.png

 

The Atlantean Pendulum discussion you guys are having seemed interesting to me so I put a deck together, and it's been working quite well from testing it. The extra deck and side deck are kinda lame atm because I'm still working stuff around in it. The Evilswarm Nightmare is probably going to go, but I liked the idea of flipping all of your opponents pendulum summons facedown, but it's too easy to run over. I wanted to fit room in for Megalo, but I'm not too sure on what to take out. I haven't lost a game yet but I've only played 5 games with it do to not being home too often but I've played against Magicians, Fluffals and Burning Abyss. I'm not too sure how the Kozmo match up is with what I have atm due to not playing against it, but I figure it would be tough because I don't have too many outs to it.

 

Even without Megalo the ability to OTK from pretty much nowhere was surprising to me. 

 

I'm not sure how I feel about Mirror Conductor, it's nice when you have it and the scale is alright, but it's not searchable with what I have right now. I'll probably be swapping it out. I want to find room for Neptabyss and Megalo, and I was considering running 43ish cards so I don't draw into Genex Controller, but even if he is dead I can always ditch with Pendulum Call so sticking with 41-40 hasn't been that much of an issue with drawing him.

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