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Magician Pendulum - Discussion

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»Satchmo    3224

Timebreaker isnt a high scale and isn't a searchable out to anything my engine, dragonpulse (when I'm playing it) or Kirin doesn't out, except Naturia Beast. In the case of Naturia Beast, you aren't playing of this nigga and you can only search it via Joker. In the case of Joker, I'm pretty sure they're just gonna kill you on the following turn anyway, so searching this card to out Naturia Beast seems pretty ineffective for something that only happens a small percentage of the time, when you could just side better outs (or main ghost ogre).

 

 

 

I piloted this deck and got 21st at a regional on Sunday, I had built to go second maining Maxx C, Dragonpulse and board wipes. The plan was just to kill pepe since most of them would blind first, and they either play through maxx C to give me enough cards to break their set up or they don't play through and die. Board wipes either baited Infinity or outed combination fields like Raffle/106/Nightmare. A lot fo the times you use the board wipe to bait infinity, you can just open up you access to dragonpulse to kill the raffle/106/nightmare they make alongside it. My side and extra was thrown together, I mainly prepared for rogue and Naturia Beast (The outs being 2 Kumonga Kaiju and 3 Psi-Blocker.) A couple fluke choices I made ended up coming in handy and winning me some games against rogue. Mermail can't out Vortex/Strike Bounzer without opening maxx C or expending insane amounts of resources giving you time to just out resource them or OTK. And Dragon's Bind was way more insane than I expected it to be going first, which is supported by a few of the pure performapal decks from Sydney. I did misplay quite a bit throughout the tournament because I rarely practice my technical play, which cost me 2/3 matches vs Pepe. I contunually forgot Vectors effect causing me to play into awkward positions easily avoidable. I walked into a Solemn Strike game 2 that I could've played around, wavering eyes'd myself for pretty much no reason, and all sorts of other cuddly shit, because I don't pay often enough. Only 1 game I bricked I opened Double Maxx C Terraforming Sky Iris Dragonpit Raigeki, and he naturally didn't play into maxx C. But even in that case, I still misplayed that game by forgetting vectors effect and trying to use Odd-eyes to unbrick that hand. I fully believe anyone not retarded could've won at least the second match I lost, especially since I played 5 Rogue decks all day. It was 3 pepe 3 mermail/atlantean 1 deskbot 1 Mirror, the mirror tried to play the mangrave/shien deck which I didn't think was correct for this event.

 

The list isn't perfect, I'd have played 2 Majespecter Raccoon if they came in the mail, replacing 1 Oafdragon and Splashmammoth, but the splashmammoth ended up working in my favor so that may just be incorrect to cut (or potentially just side for rogue). The side had a minimum of 3 cards that should have been outs for Kozmo, Shien fucking sucks and Silver Claw ended up just being outright worse to side in than Dragon's Bind, provided any pepe actually wanted me to go first. And speaking of Kozmo, the board Wipes should have been Forbidden Chalice in the main, since that'd have helped the Kozmo issue but I just assumed mistakenly that Denko would be enough to get me there. Like most of the extra never came up, and I don't expect most of it to ever come up. Big Eye is better than Draco, but I don't own one, Roach and Nightmare should be switched, idk what the fuck I was thinking on that one.

 

[spoiler]

3 Odd-Eyes

3 Dragonpit

1 Dragonpulse

3 Oafdragon

3 Wisdom-eye

1 Nobledragon

3 Skull Joker

3 Monkeyboard

1 Splashmammoth

3 Kirirn

3 Maxx C

(27)

 

2 Sky Iris

2 Terraforming

3 Pendulum Call

3 Wavering Eyes

1 Raigeki

2 Dark Hole

(13)

 

1 Silver Claw

2 Great Shogun Shien

3 Psi-Blocker

2 Kumonga Kaiju

2 Denko Sekka

1 Steelswarm Roach

3 Dragon's Bind

1 Vanity's Emptiness

(15)

 

2 Vortex

2 Meteorburst

1 Clearwing

2 Absolute

1 dracosack

1 Rebellion

1 Utopia Beyond

1 Strike Bounzer

1 Trapeze Mage

1 Dweller

1 Castel

1 Evilswarm nightmare[/spoiler]

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PrideRock    43

Something I'm not understanding is why people are completely cutting Odd-Eyes Fusion. I can get behind not playing multiples as games rarely go on to a point where you would need (or are able) to resolve multiples. However, I feel like a single copy of the card would be really good in the deck since it's searchable through Sky Iris. In a format where decks can readily flood the field with multiple monsters it's important to have cards that are good when you're losing. I think I've read that people feel it is a brick in your opening hand, especially going first. But considering the available card pool and standard lists, if you brick with five cards with one of which being the fusion spell, exactly what card could that fusion spell be that is not already being mained at 3?

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»Satchmo    3224
Odd-Eyes Fusion would be my 41/2 card in that list (depending on if I wanted a 3rd raccoon or not, not 100% on that). Going second OEF is like a 4th copy of a board wipe. It baits infinity, it outs the other shit, it gives you an Infinity of your own. The main reason I didn't play it was because I wasn't able to get it before the event.

Going first you never want to see it over Splashmammoth because Mammoth doesn't go full -2 and if you can pendulum you'd still rather see splash since it fuses for 2 cards as opposed to 3 and is a body that can be used for potential Utopia otk or to make Strike Bounzer alongside the Vortex. The game doesn't last long enough to have a swing card that is a 2 card combo to search for.

I'd definitely want it going second and then side it out going first (or vice versa)

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Mitch    86
Odd eyes fusion is the main reason why I'd ever want to play sky iris. That card alone has won me so many games 2 weeks ago at my regional

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PrideRock    43

Odd-Eyes Fusion would be my 41/2 card in that list (depending on if I wanted a 3rd raccoon or not, not 100% on that). Going second OEF is like a 4th copy of a board wipe. It baits infinity, it outs the other shit, it gives you an Infinity of your own. The main reason I didn't play it was because I wasn't able to get it before the event.

Going first you never want to see it over Splashmammoth because Mammoth doesn't go full -2 and if you can pendulum you'd still rather see splash since it fuses for 2 cards as opposed to 3 and is a body that can be used for potential Utopia otk or to make Strike Bounzer alongside the Vortex. The game doesn't last long enough to have a swing card that is a 2 card combo to search for.

I'd definitely want it going second and then side it out going first (or vice versa)

 

I think your logic is sound but something I would highlight is that if you built your deck under the premise of going second and pushing through the first turn PEPE boards then you should then play cards that are able to contribute to that gameplan as standalone entities. Comparing mammoth and OEF from that perspective, OEF would be superior because it doesn't require any other cards in order to have value, assuming PEPE has established a board (if they haven't then the comparison is irrelevant anyway). Mammoth will always require another card in order to summon Vortex (and that other card has to be OED, unless I'm missing something) in addition to the ability to pendulum summon. The fact that Mammoth is level 6, scale 4, and only 1900 ATK with an effect that comes with fairly specific constraints seems like it would make for a rather awkward card when trying to push through a first turn board. The deck has better level six monsters in Kirin and Oafdragon, better scales in just about all the monsters, making its only merit for comparison its fusion effect and I believe it loses that comparison to OEF. I suppose a point of contention is accessibility since splashmammoth is a performapal, however its twofold requirements for value (access to OED and the ability to pendulum summon) actually uses four cards in an opening hand of six (two scales + mammoth + OED) leaving only two remaining cards to push through a PEPE board which could consist of any number of proactive defensive threats.

 

There were two other factors about your build that I wanted to ask you. One was did you find three OED necessary for any reason? I admit I haven't played this deck a terrible amount, but looking at your list I instinctively want to cut an OED for another card. The other was why did you mention wanting to play chalice for the kozmo matchup? This might be a more obvious reason that I'm missing but again I don't play that often.

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dexer008    805

From my list I wanted to cut it because the whole  7 rounds I played I only used it 1-2 times. It was good for me at one point also because I used sky iris but had no more OEPD in deck, so added that instead so opponent couldn't look at my deck or waste time calling a judge to verify. It also forces you to cut cards from the extra in order to run it. I've seen people use 2 of each odd-eyes extra deck card to accomodate it sometimes and I think that's something you shouldn't need to do. The most I conceded like I said was a extra absolute dragon because it is made the most I believe, and would often send rebellion and 2nd absolute for fusion. 

 

I'm not too sure how well it helps against the pepe match-up either. Fusion will force them to use infinity or rafflesia against the vortex, but after that play you need a follow through. The biggest hitters we have for the deck are Odd-eyes pend and Xiange magician at 2500 atk, 2700 if you are still using avian. Which forces use to go into the extra deck just to run over these monsters which I think by this point they will have something (hopefully for them) to stop or interrupt your plays. 

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»Satchmo    3224
@Priderock: I wasn't originally going to run Splashmammoth. I was gonna play 2 Majespecter Raccoon. Unfortunately I order them expecting a regional on the 23rd but then found out about a regional sooner. So I was unable to play Raccoons and just left Splashmammoth in since I it'd come up more. The other issue was I didn't have the funds to get an oddeyes fusion, or else I'd have sided the mammoth and mained the fusion.

I played 3 oepd because I wanted more rank 7 fodder but rank 7 just never came up and when it did, meteorburst was a material. I don't think 3 is needed going second. However, going first and siding in 3 Dragon's Bind I'd want to resolve that as much as possible. I might potentially just side an oddeyes if I continue to build for second but if I end up building for first I'm gonna keep 3 in.

Chalice is for artifacts I literally do not care about DD and Forerunner sucks vs this deck. Unless you can't access the extra deck via Scythe. Otherwise Chalice accomplishes the same general goal as Boardwipes. You can just negate the nightmare/etc bait the ifinity the dragon pulse. If Infinity is their only defensive monster, then you bait it, negate it then kill then.

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Dirk    1956
Were you at the chicago regional?

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»Satchmo    3224

Were you at the chicago regional?

I was yea, I'd have made a thread for it but I didn't know it was happening until Friday

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knives1990    262
I sold all my shit 2 weeks ago and I'm already itching to play. Fuck this game.

Anyways I picked back up some stuff and I want to stay extremely cheap. Looking at this deck. Some of the new cards seem pretty decent, like Tuning Magician, the Odd-Eyes ritual spell/monster, and the level 8 synchro (blanking on the name, requires a non tuner Magician and it retrieves a spell card from the grave on summon.) having never played the deck, I'm wondering what my next steps should be as far as cards to pick up. I got all the aforementioned cards as well as a Vortex, so now I feel like I need just 1 fusion spell.

I'm really lost here. This deck seems like there's just a shitload of different cards and strategies that could be used. What would be super helpful is if the OP was updated with newer stuff and interactions. Or someone with a spoon

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Me.    57

The dragon's bind+master key beetle talk in the pepe thread made me realize that this deck can summon stardust spark dragon and then target that spark dragon with dragon's bind for an almost guaranteed win. Given that you're going first and opening it, of course. Which actually probably is a pretty big catch, but the possibility is here and maybe someone can make something out of it.

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dexer008    805

I don't think floodgates are the way to go with this deck. I take that notion with me when I built my side. This is a combo-centered otk deck, and running traps only serves to slow you down and make your hands/ the deck less consistent. If you open a floodgate g1/2 going first, the ideal scenario, that's a 4 card hand. To make stardust, you will need a way to make scales, a lv7, as well as armageddon knight or hard draw the tunining magician. Which if you run should probably be making omega first to cycle back the tunning for more synchros the following turn.

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»Satchmo    3224

Well not neccesarily, you can just side in the Dragon's Bind and target the odd-eyes like I was doing, a floodgate's purpose is to just stop them from playing going first, and if Pepe starts going blind second, we kinda have to adapt to a strategy that can get us through game 1.

 

The issue with spark is the amount of cards involved, you need the Arma Knight stuff (or 3 Tuning mage) + 4 vanity's which is already 7 cards minimum to pull off a 3 card combo (+scales). However, what you can do is just main 6 cards for Stardust/Nightmare combo then side out rota/zeph/2arma if you need to go first post side and bring in 4 Vanity's so that the combo is there but doesn't take up a ton of space from the main engine. The deck is floating at 24 staples and a minimum of 4 odd-eyes cards (which are needed in this case) so constructing a deck to do everything going first is very hard, and very bad when you prefer going second post-side, since you'd have to side out a ton of cards and focus on just just breaking their board and ream their asshole.

 

EDIT: Playing 3 Tuning Magician might just be correct in that case,

 

If you can find a way to make spark for less main deck investment, it'd be really cool. Looking back to Stargazer Magician + Nobledragon Magician is an option but it's very hard to get to 2 together in one hand and then it's still a 3 card combo.

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dexer008    805

Totally forgot about odd-eyes, so dragon bind then might have some merit with vanity as 4 floodgates this deck could use. What are the outs that pepe have g1 against that lock? 

 

Also what is the Stardust/Nightmare combo

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»Satchmo    3224

Pepe outs it with Wavering Eyes or Twin Twister provided they're playing Twin Twister (it's something to be aware of, you will see it game 1 vs some opponents in a 10 round event). Wavering Eyes can be played around by your own or pendulum call and I'm certain there are other possibilities to main to prevent it vs pepe but it's a lot harder for use than it is for them.

 

 

 

In hand: Armageddon Knight, lv7, scale access

 

Normal ArmaKnight dump zephyros

Zephyros bounce Armaknight

set scales, pend lv7 and Armaknight

Arma send tuning

overlay Zeph and Arma into Nightmare

ss Tuning, synch with 7 for Stardust Dragon

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Careyious    21
Something I thought mentioning is that Dragon's Bind can be made an even harder lock with the inclusion of Avian who's 2700 ATK can be resummoned every turn while Bind is active. So while it introduces more non combo pieces, having access to stardust spark + Avian + Bind is almost always game. Obviously getting all on the field isn't easy or even likely tbh, just a point of consideration.

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dexer008    805

Pepe outs it with Wavering Eyes or Twin Twister provided they're playing Twin Twister (it's something to be aware of, you will see it game 1 vs some opponents in a 10 round event). Wavering Eyes can be played around by your own or pendulum call and I'm certain there are other possibilities to main to prevent it vs pepe but it's a lot harder for use than it is for them.

 

 

 

In hand: Armageddon Knight, lv7, scale access

 

Normal ArmaKnight dump zephyros

Zephyros bounce Armaknight

set scales, pend lv7 and Armaknight

Arma send tuning

overlay Zeph and Arma into Nightmare

ss Tuning, synch with 7 for Stardust Dragon

 

You know you could replace nightmare with master keybeetle in this situation and go for the total lockout. 

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»Satchmo    3224
Re: Key Beetle- Key Beetle is good with Dragon's Bind but that play doesn't include Dragon's Bind, it's used to protect nightmare and force them to play through it.

Re: Avian- I think Mechanical Hound or Shogun Shien would be stronger since you can just field it alongside Odd-Eyes that way if they out Dragons Bind they still have no way to set scales then you just end them completely. EDIT- ignoring field wipes in the case of shien.

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»victor    6399

Just throwing this out there, for what it's worth,

 

33208.jpg

 

Description: When this card is Normal Summoned or Special Summoned, place 1 Guard Counter on it. This card gains 300 ATK for every Guard Counter on it. Once per turn, you can remove 1 Guard Counter from this card and place it on 1 other face-up card you control. If that card would be destroyed, remove the Guard Counter instead.

 

 

This is DARK for Nightmare and Master Key Beetle, and it can protect stuff, gets its effect even when Pendulum Summoned.

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knives1990    262
Is tuning magician a 3 or 0 card? I feel like I've been seeing people say this. Would running just one be pointless? I was trying to put together a budget list, and thought about running just 1 and siding the dragons bind. Enlightenment paladin seems like it could offer the deck another win condition or at worst it gives you a OG DMOC effect. The ability to make 8 synchros easily is intriguing, but at the same time I don't want to dedicate a lot of space to the idea

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»Satchmo    3224
It's a 1-of alongside Armaknight Engine or a 3 of but it's worse than quite a few other cards that I'd play before it.

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Reku    7

So, just throwing this out there, but a Buster Blader pendulum build might be worth looking into now. Works with pretty much every concept you guys have been poking at and has some pretty cool locks and loops of it's own. 

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BiShOp    9
Once the odd-eye performapal monsters come out in shining victories this deck can function much better

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»Satchmo    3224
Once that comes out you probably aren't playing the Magician engine, but I'll talk about that in a few months when it matters

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AlMacuby    96
The Magicians, if untouched by the F&L List, will be a good pick once PePe gets hit because all the other stuff we get in the next months isn't really that good. Monarchs and Blue-Eyes look promising, Raidraptors, Super Quantums, Phantom Knights and all other SHVI decks are all "okay" but probably not meta contenders.

Magicians are simply overshadowed by PePe: They lose harder to Nat Beast/Fragrance, have to play their soft lock monsters partially in the main deck (Apex/Kirin) and don't have the ability to sustain hand advantage after reaching their ceiling.

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