Jump to content
afr

Magician Pendulum - Discussion

Recommended Posts

afr    983
long ass post incoming.
 
This deck won't go into a heavy kozmo environment anymore as pendulum decks took off before the structure, so relying on absolute t1 blind is probably not a good idea anymore. Absolute is a freaking beast vs kozmo (and is gross vs other decks at certain points of the game aswell)  but pendulum decks have an easy time breaking it and in lieu of that, this deck needs to find a solid t1 board or play, so it doesn't autolose in the unfortunate case that it is forced to go first (just as performage pendulum variants). I can see clearly now what made OCG move towards clownblade magicians (that is the thing that evolved into EMEm). Fortunately, we don't have shockmaster and lavalval that were OCG solutions to those issues, so we need to find others.
 
Starting from there, we have to understand that deck needs as as many pendulum monsters as possible to operate before trying to point out relevant solutions. Majespecter unicorn - kirin is a great card to go first as kozmo can't clear it with dark destroyer/ raigeki to try to finish you off in a single move while being incredibly potent in mirror match and vs performages, so that is already a good start. Card has many merits as it can easily create win-win scenarios like pendulum summoning it by the side of skullcrobat joker or allowing you to go for utopia beyond BS wins (i was the one that posted about that in pojo and in fact, my first post here talks about that very possibility, as i wasn't sure it was going to work, but the card is very potent and changes the dynamic of how my playtesting group chose to play against the deck because no one felt like dying to fucking regular odd-eyes; the interaction itself punishes you for leaving attack position monsters and not finishing the game).
 
The utopia play is a multiple card combo that can be performed with many equivalent pieces. Due to not wanting to fill this post with combos, i will just post a few: Dracoslayer + Bunbuku/oafdragon/kirin + odd-eyes/sky iris/skullcrobat when bunbuku is not involved/wavering + dragonpit. There are ways to do it with meteorburst along the way, but that requires pendulum call/wavering, using skullcrobat for the tuner or opening wisdom-eye. The play sounds hard to pull off, but when you realize that there are many ways to do it and that many pieces overlap or are switchable (like dracoslayer, pendulum call, etc.) and that meteorburst blocks the would be answers like damage juggler or absolute, is when you begin to fear it as it can be pulled at any time (there are times where meteorburst pulls the second 6 from pendulum zone for example) and hit you like a truck out of nowhere.
 
By suppporting how important kirin is, i decided to add a couple of majespecter racoon bunbuku. I chose against fox and tempest because this deck should be running little to no backrow (non pendukums) and dragonpit usually snipes those few traps, so we found it worthless. That is why i run 0 traps.
 
I see many people ignoring luster pendulum because it only enables half of the deck, but i think that is a mistake. I often see people saying: "You can't summon the small guys" and i am perfectly fine with that, my gameplan revolves around level 6 and 7 monsters, which dracoslayer in fact enables. Dracoslayer + dragon pit + odd.eyes/joker/sky iris/xiangke is a multiple level 7 monster drop. Moreover, they often ignore the fact that absolute dragon cleans the scales if you need to (let's forget about sky iris and wavering entirely) meteorburst or odd-eyes rebellion do it for you. And if you draw dracoslayer after you are playing the game, it can create his usual combos as you often have 2 level fours in extra deck. Maybe someone can educate me here, but from where i am standing, card is a must.
 
On the performages, i tried a build without odd-eyes and with the vanilla level 4 and wisdom as main selling point but other than pendulum call is a fantastic card, i don't think that decks have too much in common. I often found myself saying stuff like "man, if i had access to meteorburst", "if i could pop my absolute with eccentrick", etc. In fact, if you look at OCG, they dropped the magicians as soon as they realized that they did not need them for rank 4 spam deck. Damage juggler is amazing and all, but by that point, i am playing vanilla scales with 2 extra searchers, which is a great improvement from stuff like abductor and reptier, but it feels like a waste to me because i am not using half of my engine to full potential. It is a matter of keep trying until i get accustomed to losing the extra options odd-eyes offer and if the odd-eyes package provides better openers and plays than that deck (it has better monsters though).
 
On the apex avian topic, the problem with the card is that like i've said, you need many pendulum cards to start your combos and apex just sits there doing nothing until your set-up is ready. I read a comment here about bomb cards and apex is definitely one of those cards. You have to play it fully aware that sometimes it is garbo others it is awesome and can win games on it's own. If proper deckbuilding has taught us something, is that cards with an incredibly high variance curve should be avoided as consistency should be favoured, but people still plays cards like raigeki and soul charge, so it is indeed a delicate topic. I personally don't play it as i decided that kirin was the better card for the deck.
 
And i think that eccentrick is being undervalued here. It is a multipurpose card here, unlike in Performage Pendulum that it only serves as a blind MST; yeah, it can't advance your own gamestate, but those wavering eyes and apex do hurt (the fact that apex sucks won't stop people from running it). I can't count how many times i have used it for popping my vortex or sniping waverings for a shot at playing.
 
Oh and this should go without saying, but this is the kind of deck that actually benefits a lot from upstart goblin. Don't skip them.
  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»Sharpman    4867

Yea I'm sure the fact that avian is a reusable walking solemn invalidates the fact that it's not a scale in hand hell pendulum summoning multiple avian ur a win condition on its own


Is the risk worth the reward? Every other card in the deck does something on its own (except some of the magicians, but they're scales at worst) and every card you draw that isn't a pendulum makes it less likely you can actually pendulum in the first place, top decking scales is bad but topping avian? Way worse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Takeko    2

it all depend of what you have in hand and if your scales are still on board.  I think that having a good build can make the risk of not being able to pendulum summon Avian on first turn nearly non-existent.  What determine if avian is a bad top deck is in the playstyle imo, this deck have a lot of solutions to protect your scales (sky iris, pendulum call), trade your scales to get pieces in hand (sky iris, odd-eyes, luster pendulum) and also cards that can setup your hand for next turn plays(oafdragon).

 

I personally think that Avian is too good to pass, but it's a 2 or nothing.  we want to open with it but we definitely not want multiples copies that can brick our hands.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»Sharpman    4867

I would rather just play Kirin. Kirin provides disruption and can be used as a combo piece. Avian is literally only useful if you can actually Pendulum Summon

 

in other words, its good when you're winning, and absolutely awful when you're losing. Avian can't help you catch up if your opponent has a board (despite the 2700 attack part), whereas Kirin can actually help you recover resources by being able to pendulum summon (not to mention bouncing Joker with it is basically cheating)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SpiceyYanni1    344

I honestly don't see the problem with playing Magicians + Performages. I've been testing it out and it's actually quite strong. you have multiple combo cards that interact with each other and I believe raises the power level tremendously. 

 

Luster+ Plush

Joker + Wisdom

 

Hell, Luster + Anything is strong. and it doesn't really clog and I think a lot of you will realize this after testing it out. Scale wise  you have

 

Low Scales: (ratios are examples)

 

3 Mirror Conductor (3 Scale)

3 Dragon Magician (1 Scale)

1 Partnaga (3 Scale)

 

 

High Scales:

 

3 Luster (5 Scale)

3 Plushfire (5 Scale)

1 Dragon Magician (8 Scale)

3 Wisdom (5 scale that turns into a low scale)

3 Joker (Although I have yet to use it as a scale, would rather Normal Summon it)

 

This obviously means you have to cut cards like Pendulum Call, but honestly I have not been a big fan of that cart in the first place. It prevents you from using Wisdom which I believe is a big issue. Without it, you are free to make luster and wisdom plays. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitch    83

I would rather just play Kirin. Kirin provides disruption and can be used as a combo piece. Avian is literally only useful if you can actually Pendulum Summon
 
in other words, its good when you're winning, and absolutely awful when you're losing. Avian can't help you catch up if your opponent has a board (despite the 2700 attack part), whereas Kirin can actually help you recover resources by being able to pendulum summon (not to mention bouncing Joker with it is basically cheating)


The whole decks purpose is to pendulum summon, I dont understand this logic. If you aren't pendulum summoning you aren't winning that game regardless.
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Squiddy    9278

ya, but ur chances of pendulum summoning get significantly lower with the more non-scales in ur deck. apex avian isnt a scale so its basically a blank in ur hand, meaning u only have 4 carts and u need 2 of them to be scales in ur opening, whereas kirin doubles as a scale 2 and an indestructable, untargettable pleaides that disrupts ur opps plays.

 

theoretically if u are pendulum summoning u should be able to win the game without apex avian

 

apex avian seems good but is just pretty much the definition of win moar. ocg dropped it two weeks in after they realized the same, its basically like playing world in books or BLS in something like dino rabbit; obviously still better than those examples, but u get my point (|:|)

  • Upvote 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dexer008    861

Thoughts on risebell the summoner? 

 

He is a vanilla monster with low status and lv3, those are his cons, but he is a scale 2 to summon most monsters and has the ability to increase a monster's lv by 1 on the field. You could use this on kirin or Oafdragon to transform them into lv7 and combine with odd-eyes/dragonpit/xian for rank 7 plays into absolute or what have you. If combined with a lv5 pendulum monsters, such as the very early stargazer magician, can turn them into lv6 for utopia beyond/norito etc. Stargazer is also another low rank (scale 1) when with magicians on the opposite scale. Other then that, other lv5 pend's include foucalt's cannon (face up s/t destruction at end of turn, scale 2) or Mandragon (scale 2, 2500 atk beater(. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Takeko    2

you are basically suggesting a  mediocre card(risebell) to fix another bad card(stargazer) and outclassed ones (foucault==> eccentrick    mandragon==>Xiangke).

 

I'm not even sure the level6 to 7 plays is worth, non themed scales are there because they have a big impact or utility : Kirin for board control/tempo, Eccentrick archfiend for value and luster pendulum for combos/synchro 

 

 

I don't think we need low scales that bad. We already have a shitload of themed (searchable) low scales and Kirin who already proved himself as worth playing.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found the issue with this deck when trying to pendulum summon was not that i didn't have enough scales, but that i didn't have enough high scales. So i'm not sure adding more pendulum monsters (as opposed to avian) really does anything in helping you pendulum summon unless these are high scales, since you play so many of the low scales you almost always have access to one. The problem is, there's just not many high scales worth running. Of course, this might be irrelevant in a rank 4 centric build, but it was my experience with the odd-eyes build. So taking the odd-eyes build as an example, let say you already play:

 

 

3 pit

3 joker

3 luster

3 oaf

3 wisdom

3 kirin

3 odd-eyes

2 nobledragon

2 xiangke

2-3 excentric

2-3 avian

 

And then you wanted to replace avian with more pendulum monsters. As you can see, you are already running an abundance of low scales, and only six high scales (odd-eyes build considers anything that's not 8 scale to be low, since you want to pendulum summon level 7s, so eccentric doesn't even help you here), and on top of this you never want to use joker as a scale if you can help it, so you're only running three practical high scales. If you want to replace the avians with more pendulums, what would you be adding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vishnubhai    6

I just don't understand how setting up/drawing scales is an issue, considering that we have one of the best tutors we could ever ask for in Pendulum Call. I agree with Tony though, I too have noticed that the ratio of low scales exceeds the amount of high scales. Asides from using Joker as a high scale, I'm not aware of any other 'good' high scales that would work in this deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»Sharpman    4867

well there's also Timegazer Magician, and since you're playing a million magicians anyway, maybe he is what is needed

 

or, if you're having a problem drawing into high scales (and the problem isn't actually running out of them), maybe we should be playing Summoner's Art to increase the chance of drawing into Dragonpit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vishnubhai    6

I think the main issue is actually running out of them. Popping Dragonpit's with Wavering/Sky Iris seems like a common occurrence, so maybe we need to add an additional Magician. 1 Timegazer Magician may do the trick, and in addition to that I sort of like the idea of playing Summoner's Art. Fetching a sole Dragonpit may prove more useful than Pendulum Call in some cases, in the event that you want to pop your own scales.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Takeko    2

even "running out of high scales" is not an excuse because oafdragon exist.  also, why not considering joker as a scale is a problem since he can search what you need?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Warthog    165

I honestly don't see the problem with playing Magicians + Performages. I've been testing it out and it's actually quite strong. you have multiple combo cards that interact with each other and I believe raises the power level tremendously. 
 
Luster+ Plush
Joker + Wisdom
 
Hell, Luster + Anything is strong. and it doesn't really clog and I think a lot of you will realize this after testing it out. Scale wise  you have
 
Low Scales: (ratios are examples)
 
3 Mirror Conductor (3 Scale)
3 Dragon Magician (1 Scale)
1 Partnaga (3 Scale)
 
 
High Scales:
 
3 Luster (5 Scale)
3 Plushfire (5 Scale)
1 Dragon Magician (8 Scale)
3 Wisdom (5 scale that turns into a low scale)
3 Joker (Although I have yet to use it as a scale, would rather Normal Summon it)
 
This obviously means you have to cut cards like Pendulum Call, but honestly I have not been a big fan of that cart in the first place. It prevents you from using Wisdom which I believe is a big issue. Without it, you are free to make luster and wisdom plays. 


I agree. I find playing a pendulum deck without Slayer and Performages silly but disagree on not using Pendulum call due to fixing hands when your opponent has answers to your scales, especially post side board.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitch    83
This may sound stupid but is there anyway to actually not auto die to wavering eyes playing this deck?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Swartzstrom    4
The only thing that I could think of outside of playing Wavering Eyes itself is playing Pendulum Impenetrable. Allows you to destroy scales, but not your opponent. Can be used to protect scales or keep Performages from comboing off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+mmf    23269

This may sound stupid but is there anyway to actually not auto die to wavering eyes playing this deck?

discard damage juggler

although apparently not because people exclude performages from these lists for whatever reason lol

hey maybe youll just be able to negate it with apex avian every tiem....
  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sanjura    6725

This may sound stupid but is there anyway to actually not auto die to wavering eyes playing this deck?


juggler

pendulum call

ask to side it out :^)


if none of those work, depending on the strength of your hand you can play through it, ie. having two insights and two other magicians-if you have the read on wavering, don't be greedy and throw down two insights, play 1 insight and 1 Magician so when you get waveringed you still have 1 more insight to use.


that card is fucking dumb and shouldn't be legal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitch    83
I feel like I'd just be playing a shittier version of Pepe if I cut the odd-eyes stuff and play performages.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Takeko    2

to those who defend performages in magicians, how's the deck running? I just can't find any synergy.

-as far as I know, magicians scales and performage scales are not mixable. what do you do with insight in your hand without other magician? same question for any magician card actually

-does it even access odd-eyes extra deck bosses?

 

-maybe it works by only splashing the non-pendulum engine? (hat tricker, damage juggler, trick clown)

 

-can you realy setup a strong field with only r4s TCG are allowing?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vishnubhai    6

This may sound stupid but is there anyway to actually not auto die to wavering eyes playing this deck?

Doesn't this go for any pendulum deck though? I mean, doesn't PePe auto-lose in the same situation...idk. You have to obviously play around an opposing Wavering Eyes if you don't have one yourself, and we also benefit from Pendulum Calls secondary protection effect. This is all assuming you main deck 3 Wavering Eyes in Magicians.

 

I too would like to see peoples lists for Performage Magicians. The deck just seems like a total mess lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mitch    83
They have plushfire which in a sense plays around wavering. They also have juggler as well as 3 mained wavering which also opens up plays in their deck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Fullerene60    404

The deck looks like a mess on paper, but when you practice with it you start learning what scales you need to set up.
Resolving ignister is your #1 way to fix your scales.

It nets way more advantage than odd-eyes and it usually summons a free pleiades or kirin turn 1.
The odd-eyes cards dont seem threatening and produce all in field situations.

The floating of the clowns is obnoxious.
Wonder wand produces too much advantage, anyone mixing magicians and mages should be running 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×