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Pendulums (Performapal/Odd-Eyes/Dracos/good cards)

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But then you'd have no defensive play, outside of making Nightmare occassionally. I guess that's preferred if you're trying to go second every game

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knives1990    262
I think TTH should still be mained exa use its probably the best hole against monarchs, and it's not an on summon trap so you have more leeway in which to activate it. I think TTH and BTH is a solid trap lineup. Not using any holes or rafflesia doesn't make much sense, you aren't going to go 2nd every game

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brighteyes    2150

Best trap hole against Monarch I thought was Chaos Trap Hole unless I'm missing something.

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Chaotrope    245

Best trap hole against Monarch I thought was Chaos Trap Hole unless I'm missing something.

Chaos Trap Hole isn't compatible with Rafflesia.

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oliver?    690

I've found that if you run the strike/ariadne engine you lose a lot more games going second

 

it's great when it works but idk if it's worth it (6-7 slots as well)

 

tbh i would rather play instant fusions and eccentricks and more combo cards (max painful, more dai etc.) and be able to grind through backrow

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Elements    569

I've found that if you run the strike/ariadne engine you lose a lot more games going second
 
it's great when it works but idk if it's worth it (6-7 slots as well)
 
tbh i would rather play instant fusions and eccentricks and more combo cards (max painful, more dai etc.) and be able to grind through backrow

Typically I'd assume that when we would go second we would side out the counter traps and ariandne. Obv that doesnt help game 1 though. Gives a lot more choice for siding. I really like how billys deck looks but o have had games where I just don't have enough to stick on the board.

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oliver?    690

 

 

I've found that if you run the strike/ariadne engine you lose a lot more games going second
 
it's great when it works but idk if it's worth it (6-7 slots as well)
 
tbh i would rather play instant fusions and eccentricks and more combo cards (max painful, more dai etc.) and be able to grind through backrow

Typically I'd assume that when we would go second we would side out the counter traps and ariandne. Obv that doesnt help game 1 though. Gives a lot more choice for siding. I really like how billys deck looks but o have had games where I just don't have enough to stick on the board.

 

like at that point i would rather just side trap/trap-like cards for when i know im going first

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Elements    569

 

 

 

I've found that if you run the strike/ariadne engine you lose a lot more games going second
 
it's great when it works but idk if it's worth it (6-7 slots as well)
 
tbh i would rather play instant fusions and eccentricks and more combo cards (max painful, more dai etc.) and be able to grind through backrow

Typically I'd assume that when we would go second we would side out the counter traps and ariandne. Obv that doesnt help game 1 though. Gives a lot more choice for siding. I really like how billys deck looks but o have had games where I just don't have enough to stick on the board.

 

like at that point i would rather just side trap/trap-like cards for when i know im going first

 

 

So you ain't keen on the trap hole side of things and you don't think that Ariadne and co are worth it. Is there something you are using that no one else is?

Because without all these things, that opens up a huge amount of deck space to work with.

 

I guess a bunch of card choices are coming down to wether or not you wish to go first game 1 or not. I have been trying to find a build that works just as well going first as it does going second but i feel like the more the Ariadne & Draco builds become the standard, going first is going to be hotly contested, esp in the mirror.

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Rainy    13

wait I thought Dark Engine was the most commonly played?

 

Are we going to take the guy who got 1st at YCS Prague's list into account here? I know he's been accused of cheating (I don't know if truthful or not obviously), but the ideas at least seemed interesting.

I suppose that you kind of get wrecked by Strike if you try to summon AK into it because I assume you'd negate, because you'd lose it to the Shaddoll Dragon after anyway(?)

 

Forgive me if I'm totally wrong; I just got back in the format but I at least want to contribute

 

You could always play some assortment of hand-traps for the "trap-like card" portion?

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Elements    569

wait I thought Dark Engine was the most commonly played?

 

Are we going to take the guy who got 1st at YCS Prague's list into account here? I know he's been accused of cheating (I don't know if truthful or not obviously), but the ideas at least seemed interesting.

I suppose that you kind of get wrecked by Strike if you try to summon AK into it because I assume you'd negate, because you'd lose it to the Shaddoll Dragon after anyway(?)

 

Forgive me if I'm totally wrong; I just got back in the format but I at least want to contribute

 

You could always play some assortment of hand-traps for the "trap-like card" portion?

 

It was, but then the draco-centric builds took center stage and seem like the way to be going forward. Problem people were having with the dark variant is that it was prone to bricking and that zepythros really wasn't worth putting so many non pendulum monsters into the deck to facilitate it.

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Rainy    13

That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross

I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?

 

I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

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Elements    569

That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross

I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?

 

I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

 

Pendulum Rising seems like a cool card but atm i think its bad. You are just compounding the deck further imo. Don't get me wrong, i like the AK build but i opened double AJ and Shaddoll Dragon/ Zephyros far too much for my liking and it sucked that i was limited to like 5 cards in my extra deck because they aren't pendulum monsters.

 

When the Ariadne engine works, it's amazing. When it doesn't and you open multiple traps, it can be a less than ideal start to the game. It's also not great when you are going second.

 

Also a matter of, if and when the Ariadne build becomes the most popular, it also becomes weaker in the mirror.

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pevean    6


That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross
I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?
 
I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

 
Pendulum Rising seems like a cool card but atm i think its bad. You are just compounding the deck further imo. Don't get me wrong, i like the AK build but i opened double AJ and Shaddoll Dragon/ Zephyros far too much for my liking and it sucked that i was limited to like 5 cards in my extra deck because they aren't pendulum monsters.
 
When the Ariadne engine works, it's amazing. When it doesn't and you open multiple traps, it can be a less than ideal start to the game. It's also not great when you are going second.
 
Also a matter of, if and when the Ariadne build becomes the most popular, it also becomes weaker in the mirror.

The engine is bad because you drew low probability hands?
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Elements    569

 

 

That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross
I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?
 
I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

 
Pendulum Rising seems like a cool card but atm i think its bad. You are just compounding the deck further imo. Don't get me wrong, i like the AK build but i opened double AJ and Shaddoll Dragon/ Zephyros far too much for my liking and it sucked that i was limited to like 5 cards in my extra deck because they aren't pendulum monsters.
 
When the Ariadne engine works, it's amazing. When it doesn't and you open multiple traps, it can be a less than ideal start to the game. It's also not great when you are going second.
 
Also a matter of, if and when the Ariadne build becomes the most popular, it also becomes weaker in the mirror.

The engine is bad because you drew low probability hands?

 

 

Not just that, but that attributes to it. The Complexity players commented on stream that drawing these low probability hands happened far too often and cost them games because of it.

 

The AK engine was 'go to' when the adjusted list hit because it has seen success before and immediately, in many players eyes, filled the void in the deck. Since then, new theory and new ways to go about the deck have come about and imo are a lot stronger for what the deck does now.

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Me.    57

 

 

 

That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross
I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?
 
I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

 
Pendulum Rising seems like a cool card but atm i think its bad. You are just compounding the deck further imo. Don't get me wrong, i like the AK build but i opened double AJ and Shaddoll Dragon/ Zephyros far too much for my liking and it sucked that i was limited to like 5 cards in my extra deck because they aren't pendulum monsters.
 
When the Ariadne engine works, it's amazing. When it doesn't and you open multiple traps, it can be a less than ideal start to the game. It's also not great when you are going second.
 
Also a matter of, if and when the Ariadne build becomes the most popular, it also becomes weaker in the mirror.

The engine is bad because you drew low probability hands?

 

 

Not just that, but that attributes to it. The Complexity players commented on stream that drawing these low probability hands happened far too often and cost them games because of it.

 

The AK engine was 'go to' when the adjusted list hit because it has seen success before and immediately, in many players eyes, filled the void in the deck. Since then, new theory and new ways to go about the deck have come about and imo are a lot stronger for what the deck does now.

 

 

I'm not sure you (the Complexity players) understand what low probability means.

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Elements    569

 

 

 

 

That's true, I suppose that every time you see AK w/o something to use it with is kinda gross
I liked the Pendulum Rising on it into Sorcerer, but I guess that's not really worth it?
 
I find that the problem with what I've seen so far of the ariadne builds is that it's similar to how Nekroz was played; in which your engine was just blatantly stronger than other decks, and you would do better trying to set up a board and breaking their lock, rather than trying to lock them out of playing the game. Thus, it might be better to just run cards that would allow you to either bounce back(?)

 
Pendulum Rising seems like a cool card but atm i think its bad. You are just compounding the deck further imo. Don't get me wrong, i like the AK build but i opened double AJ and Shaddoll Dragon/ Zephyros far too much for my liking and it sucked that i was limited to like 5 cards in my extra deck because they aren't pendulum monsters.
 
When the Ariadne engine works, it's amazing. When it doesn't and you open multiple traps, it can be a less than ideal start to the game. It's also not great when you are going second.
 
Also a matter of, if and when the Ariadne build becomes the most popular, it also becomes weaker in the mirror.

The engine is bad because you drew low probability hands?

 

 

Not just that, but that attributes to it. The Complexity players commented on stream that drawing these low probability hands happened far too often and cost them games because of it.

 

The AK engine was 'go to' when the adjusted list hit because it has seen success before and immediately, in many players eyes, filled the void in the deck. Since then, new theory and new ways to go about the deck have come about and imo are a lot stronger for what the deck does now.

 

 

I'm not sure you (the Complexity players) understand what low probability means.

 

 

Ok. Not sure what else to reply with haha.

 

Just trying to keep the thread ticking with my shit as this thread dies for days at a time. 

 

I'm just really trying to understand every aspect and corner of the deck.

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So if the AK engine is becoming less popular and ariadne build is inconsistent (well I don't have strikes) what are suitable replacementa for the dark engine? Filler like unexpected dai/instant fusions/upstarts?
Also im liking chicken game since it can be re-used with zephyros and also popped with sorcerer for a search

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So if the AK engine is becoming less popular and ariadne build is inconsistent (well I don't have strikes) what are suitable replacementa for the dark engine? Filler like unexpected dai/instant fusions/upstarts?
Also im liking chicken game since it can be re-used with zephyros and also popped with sorcerer for a search

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Elements    569

So if the AK engine is becoming less popular and ariadne build is inconsistent (well I don't have strikes) what are suitable replacementa for the dark engine? Filler like unexpected dai/instant fusions/upstarts?
Also im liking chicken game since it can be re-used with zephyros and also popped with sorcerer for a search

 

I think you should just use the build you like using more. There is still a whole bunch of work to be done on the deck until the 'optimal' build is found anyway and who knows, come the banlist, all this talk could well be quite irrelevant haha.

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Rainy    13

I mean I'm pretty sure if the Ariadne build goes off, then it will beat the AK/darks build hand-down(?) (Feel free to correct me, I just want to get down the particular pros-cons)

But if not, the dark build will generally be able to make some kind of play and win out (Assuming equal player skill/neither player drew complete brick)

 

In either deck if you brick...well they're still bricks.

 

What's the probability for opening a strong hand w/ the Ariadne engine vs the Dark engine? What do you even need to go off with Ariadne to make it "worth" more using than the Dark engine?

I think these are all questions you're going to have to ask yourself before picking an engine to use

Even then, this isn't taking into account other decks in the meta / other builds that are out there (ala instant fusion / eccentrick) 

Though to be honest I feel like the AK build is a little bit better than just running upstart/ins fusion since those are still dead without having the right scales/etc, while having access to dragon dump can out floodgates; and at least it's a monster you can summon to "do" something. 

 

I think it's also possible to splash magicians ala OCG-style before the Wisdom-Eye hit

Whether this is the correct route or not I would not be able to tell you, but you do get to worry less about getting dumped on by singular Solemn Strikes/Wavering Eyes due to Dragonpit/Wavering; but Dragonpit is kinda shitty in this deck because lvl 7 doesn't do anything

 

Alternatively you could just run Pulse/Oaf, which gives you access to monster destruction but you probably value the MST effect

Whichever route you pick there will always be a possibility of bricking, but in finding the "best deck"/"best build" it might be more important to see the rest of what is played in the format so that we don't forfeit (in particular) the monarch matchup (I get absolutely bodied by Majesty/Fieldspell lock, but I brick a lot apparently)

 

Hopefully this helps you in establishing a little bit of insight into what you want to play.

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Fullerene60    382

I only watched the final match played with the build at prague.
It looks like he used a lot of different cards that could raise the ceiling of the deck.
I mean, he won easily through a strike+mojo+tincan even though he misplayed!
That's clear evidence that including high ceiling cards like instant, AK+friends and soul charge are the best way to play this deck.

Ive had the most personal success avoiding things like ariadne and streamlining with terraforming and chicken game, then siding a lone copy of zombie world for the monarch match up (which is the nuts because you don't need to worry about stormforth+ether getting in your way on turn 1). Also zephy+chicken game has a fantastic interaction.

 
 

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Mitch    86
Erebus is a zombie type just so you know.
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Was also going to say, Erebus is a zombie.
How was zombie world in testing? They can still dominion lock with erebus but zombie world is live a turn faster than restrict. I may side it in my chicken game build

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Fullerene60    382

The biggest issue ive found (outside of dominion) has really just been ether getting in your way after you break the lock, if you cant kill them that turn or mess with their resources then they are usually able to reset everything. I still side the restricts but absolutely prefer using zombie world when going second.

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