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Mass shooting in California

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Donnie    2189

it sucks that we use tragedys like these in such short notice to emphasize political ideas and agendas.

 

for fucks sake people fucken died. pray for people.

Praying for dead or injured people is pointless. It's shitty to say but it's true, #PrayforX is pointless, whoever you're praying to obviously isn't answering, because this keeps happening.

 

The only thing we can do is try to change things through our political system, if you want to help people that's what you do.

 

Whether you think the solution is mental care, gun control, background checks, or even more guns, having an opinion and trying to change something is far more effective than praying.

 

I'm so sick and tired of the cop out activism of changing your fb profile pic, posting a hashtag, and the narcissistic hey I was near there notice me posts, you're effectively doing and saying nothing.

 

Also when people say stop politicizing tragedy, they need to realize politics are the only way anything changes in civilized societies, saying don't politicize something is effectively saying do nothing. Mourning is important, but if we stay in a cycle of doing nothing we'll always be mourning as opposed to trying to solve the issue.

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+Malcolm    4780

this is really upsetting, not just as a Californian but as an American. The rate at which these shootings keep happening is insane and fucking scary. 

 

Nothing gets done by the local, state or federal government. It is a scary time to be a non-white American, more so when the fucking police are behind some of this civil terrorism. 

 

And when the anti-gun control / anti-planned parenthood rhetoric resonates with a fucking terrorist, and they act on it, the politicians find a way to deflect the same people they are trying to get to vote for them. This coupled with obvious racism (white folk get to make it all the way to trial, not gunned down where they stand) really paints the picture of what a shithole the U.S. is becoming. 

 

shut the fuck up

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The_Be(a)sT    967

 

A quick google search of "most athiest countries" happens to pull up a list of countries with virtually no crazy people going on killing sprees. What a coincidence!

 

Funny to find out that you live in one of the most athiest counries in the World. 

I never realized the rest of the World is so religious. ....in 2015

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iDunnoBro    822

 

Atheism also isn't fixing this.

But, I get it is saying those guys are politicians and can try to do something to prevent it.

Religion: A cult that teaches others that their belief in a higher power is more important than anything, including their own life and the lives of others.

 

>Athiesm isn't fixing this.

 

Oh ok

 

A quick google search of "most athiest countries" happens to pull up a list of countries with virtually no crazy people going on killing sprees. What a coincidence!

 

 

My quick google search of the #1 atheist country (Czech republic) shows there was a mass shooting earlier this year, though.

 

I will say it's hilarious how triggered people get by the word "prayer" in this thread. Honestly, getting after people for how they try to express emmpathy? You're only trying to inject your disapproval of their religion into the conversation, rather than an actual disapproval of their personal actions.

 

This is why Atheists are considered no different than religious fanatics.

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+rei+    34993
Yes, blindly believing in something with no evidence and being opposed to something with no evidence are clearly things that should be viewed in the same light.

Wouldn't that carte blanche reasoning be the same as equating religious people in general with atheist in general? there are asshole extremists everywhere.

More on point, what's the innate flaw in criticising religion? Why is it above scrutiny, especially considering it's effectively an indoctrinated thought pattern? Prayer -is- a personal action, and one frequently used to disavow actual responsibility ("well I prayed i did my part") or actual empathy. The only criticism of the term prayer in this thread is pointing out the flaws of politicians using prayer instead of policy to attempt to stop this from continuing to happen... and that was from a headline not a post - so who's getting triggered here?
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iDunnoBro    822

Yes, blindly believing in something with no evidence and being opposed to something with no evidence are clearly things that should be viewed in the same light.

 

Bringing up disagreement to an unrelated matter is often viewed synonymously or otherwise related to said unrelated matter. No matter how much the two sides actually differ.

The mindsets are not similar, but that isn't what is being compared. It's the fact both Atheists and Religious fanatics inject themselves and push their agenda into topics they weren't invited nor belong. No one's doing an in-depth analysis of why each side is doing which, they're both just "Those assholes who talk about shit we don't care about."
 

 

More on point, what's the innate flaw in criticising religion?

 

 

None at all, except when the discussion has nothing to do with said religion and just becomes about lambasting the other individuals involved in said discussion. At very best lambasting people for expressing that they would be praying for victims is petty, since if they are in fact just injecting their religion for the sake of itself, that's wrong too. But you'll never really know that and at worst you're just getting pissy because they are, in fact, praying for the victims and letting likeminded family and friends of those victims feel more unity than they would from the word "condolences."

 

Regardless, it's clear this thread stopped being about the victims long ago so I don't really care to explain why you all are being petty, disrespectful jackasses.

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+Gemstone Mine    2731

did you even read reis post, or are you picking and choosing parts of his post to nitpick because you have no idea what you are talking about? Because you completely missed his point

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SSJ Grumpig    5621

 

Regardless, it's clear this thread stopped being about the victims long ago so I don't really care to explain why you all are being petty, disrespectful jackasses.

 

hahahahahahahaha

 

it's like you're posting in stream of consciousness

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+Silver    1012

Tbh I did just want to send my condolences. Nothing else really.

 

I am not really ready to start a discussion on politics nor religion because I dont think I am adequately equipped with information to even have a view.

 

But alright. I guess.

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iDunnoBro    822

did you even read reis post, or are you picking and choosing parts of his post to nitpick because you have no idea what you are talking about? Because you completely missed his point

 

I didn't respond to his entire final point because it was irrelevent to my own, criticizing religion or prayer is fine. I didn't disagree with it at all. Choosing to criticize it at times like these are my issue and I clarified that.

 

I did want to respond to his assertation that they were substituting policy with prayer despite zero evidence, but it'd just me being snarky about that since I assume it's impossible for him to prove what goes on behind congress brains, and it is actually a valid concern, plus I want to keep things respectful and neutral to avoid derailing too much from the main topic.

 

All I'll say is that yea, policy > prayer, and if that's indeed what they're doing then fuck 'em. But for all intents and purposes "prayer" is just a synonym for "condolences" and similar sentiments given by other government officials. The only main difference I see is that they are "christian condolences" and thus feel people are trying to justify criticism of them any way they can. (In this case, assuming all they're doing is praying. Considering the attacks on religion from left field, completely unrelated to their comments I believe this to be accurate.)

 

In the end, if you feel they aren't doing enough then whining about what they are doing isn't going to help and is just hurtful.

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+rei+    34993

I did want to respond to his assertation that they were substituting policy with prayer despite zero evidence,

I mean that's literally the subject of that cover photo - whether it's the case or not it's the angle the paper is taking. (...and they're republicans pretty safe bet there's not going to be any meaningful policy change from them)

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SSJ Grumpig    5621

 

you all are being petty

 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to his entire final point because it was irrelevent to my own, criticizing religion or prayer is fine. I didn't disagree with it at all. Choosing to criticize it at times like these are my issue and I clarified that.

 

I did want to respond to his assertation that they were substituting policy with prayer despite zero evidence, but it'd just me being snarky about that since I assume it's impossible for him to prove what goes on behind congress brains, and it is actually a valid concern, plus I want to keep things respectful and neutral to avoid derailing too much from the main topic.

 

All I'll say is that yea, policy > prayer, and if that's indeed what they're doing then fuck 'em. But for all intents and purposes "prayer" is just a synonym for "condolences" and similar sentiments given by other government officials. The only main difference I see is that they are "christian condolences" and thus feel people are trying to justify criticism of them any way they can. (In this case, assuming all they're doing is praying. Considering the attacks on religion from left field, completely unrelated to their comments I believe this to be accurate.)

 

In the end, if you feel they aren't doing enough then whining about what they are doing isn't going to help and is just hurtful.

 

this is the internet and most things are slanted in an atheist viewpoint. you have yet to say anything relevant, and given that the politicians spouting useless rhetoric about prayer are the only ones in a position to effectively do anything about the shit they are praying for, i'd say they deserve to be hung out to dry until that change happens. you are nitpicking at the difference in terminology, but the issue isn't the difference between "prayer" and "sympathy", it's that neither prayer nor sympathy does a damn thing to fix this mess. no one gives a fuck about a politician's condolences, because none of us kid ourselves into thinking they actually care. if people have the power to stop an atrocity from happening, but stand by and do nothing while saying "oh im so sorry i will pray for you," public opinion can and should rip them a new asshole. you are acting like this is an isolated incident - most of these shitheads were policy makers when sandy hook happened. it's pretty obvious at this point that yes, condolences are being substituted for policy

 

also, talking about and criticizing our elected officials for what they do/don't do is kind of a big part of being a citizen so i have no idea what you were getting at with that last part

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»Tygo    14141
^The longest Grumpig post in recent history. You sit the fuck down now.

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iDunnoBro    822

 

 

you all are being petty

 

 

 

 

I didn't respond to his entire final point because it was irrelevent to my own, criticizing religion or prayer is fine. I didn't disagree with it at all. Choosing to criticize it at times like these are my issue and I clarified that.

 

I did want to respond to his assertation that they were substituting policy with prayer despite zero evidence, but it'd just me being snarky about that since I assume it's impossible for him to prove what goes on behind congress brains, and it is actually a valid concern, plus I want to keep things respectful and neutral to avoid derailing too much from the main topic.

 

All I'll say is that yea, policy > prayer, and if that's indeed what they're doing then fuck 'em. But for all intents and purposes "prayer" is just a synonym for "condolences" and similar sentiments given by other government officials. The only main difference I see is that they are "christian condolences" and thus feel people are trying to justify criticism of them any way they can. (In this case, assuming all they're doing is praying. Considering the attacks on religion from left field, completely unrelated to their comments I believe this to be accurate.)

 

In the end, if you feel they aren't doing enough then whining about what they are doing isn't going to help and is just hurtful.

 

this is the internet and most things are slanted in an atheist viewpoint. you have yet to say anything relevant, and given that the politicians spouting useless rhetoric about prayer are the only ones in a position to effectively do anything about the shit they are praying for, i'd say they deserve to be hung out to dry until that change happens. you are nitpicking at the difference in terminology, but the issue isn't the difference between "prayer" and "sympathy", it's that neither prayer nor sympathy does a damn thing to fix this mess. no one gives a fuck about a politician's condolences, because none of us kid ourselves into thinking they actually care. if people have the power to stop an atrocity from happening, but stand by and do nothing while saying "oh im so sorry i will pray for you," public opinion can and should rip them a new asshole. you are acting like this is an isolated incident - most of these shitheads were policy makers when sandy hook happened. it's pretty obvious at this point that yes, condolences are being substituted for policy

 

If it's truly outrage about condolences over policy then I apologize, it still seems like typical atheist circlejerking(especially with comments like Tygo's) a bit to me but I suppose as much as I tried to avoid it my bias could still have been a factor.
 

 

also, talking about and criticizing our elected officials for what they do/don't do is kind of a big part of being a citizen so i have no idea what you were getting at with that last part

 

Well, I was pointing out how the issue appeared to be made into them giving condolences/prayers rather than them not doing anything. (Considering similar sentiments that just didn't use the word "prayer" weren't attacked) Unless them giving their condolences wasn't a good thing somehow, then I don't see why the focus wasn't on what should've been done instead of how dirty a word "prayer" is.

 

But it seems like I failed to avoid sidetracking this thread completely, so unless I think I can contribute meaningful discussion I doubt I'll keep posting.

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fractal    2488

Let's see here... Republican answers to the increasingly common issue of mass shootings is "pray to God, and everyone go get a gun so that MAYBE someone will kill the murderer before they kill too many people". Really, their answer to mass shootings is just putting guns in as many hands as possible and hoping that the body count drops from 10-20 to 5-10. Have they actually thought about what the reaction/response time would be? People who attempt to stop a rampage get wounded or killed, not to mention law enforcement having to deal with those situations where there are bodies and multiple armed civilians running around looking for a "bad guy".

 

Prayer is fine. Prayer alone is not. This is where the religious divide is. People who do not share the same belief that prayer is enough, religious or not, and especially from potential presidential candidates who are trying to score points from certain demographics and jockey each other for position, are getting sick of turning on the TV and seeing "20 people murdered, pray to God, go buy a gun".

 

I'm atheist. I think it's silly that, to quote something I saw on Twitter yesterday: "Global warming is a conspiracy, but if 2 dudes put rings on each others fingers, the sky monster will kill us". Really, I don't care if you believe in God, but people lean too heavily on God to fix the world rather than do what God put them in charge of doing: take care of it. That means not only the environment, but the people on it at as well. Take away their tools to do evil, rather than give everyone the tools to do evil.

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+Sophocles    3325

But isn't there a Republican policy in regards to terrorism ie more military intervention and a reduction or stop to Muslim immigration and asylum?

It's a horrendous plan and some of the phrases I've read have made me cringe, like 'carpet bombing' and forced registration of muslims, etc

but it is a policy.

 

Saying someone's in your prayer's a Christian way of showing you care and it's supposed to show you're contemplating their hardships or that you wish them the best. Even if it's just a hollow phrase it's pretty shitty from that paper to take someone's message of condolence and piss all over it. Attack the policy.

 

I can see how religious people'd be offended by that headline, but it seems to me like just another outwash of the political polarization in the States leading to really vicious commentary in the media from both sides.

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»Tygo    14141

 

atheist circlejerking(especially with comments like Tygo's) 

 

 

who said I was atheist lol

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