Francis J Underwood

The Official 2016-2017 NFL Season Thread

494 posts in this topic

The Denver Broncos complete a historic post-season run and Peyton Manning gets to ride into the sunset on top. However, not everyone goes out on top as Megatron and Marshawn Lynch retire. Excitement and Hope culminate in a Free Agency Frenzy with the league year beginning tomorrow. 

The Eagles purge of Chip Kelly continues with 

 

Both Kiko Alonso and Byron Maxwell going to Miami for draft pick compensation.

 

Demarco Murray goes from Philly to Tennessee improving the supporting cast around Mariota. 

 

New faces in New Places

 

Kelechi Osemele formerly of the Ravens gets paid (11/yr) to join the Raiders Revival. 

 

Malik Jackson leaves for Jacksonville (15/yr)

 

Whether you like them or not, these guys are back

 

Jason Pierre-Paul returns the Giants

 

Richie Incognito returns to the Bills

 

Tamba Hali back to KC and will retire a chief

 

Dwayne Allen is the chosen TE for the Indianapolis Colts. 

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Detroit claimed yet another career. :(

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Don't think Lynch or Johnson are HoF bound, but Woodson and Manning are.

 

Dolphins gonna Dolphin.

 

Raiders spending big $$ for big upgrades.

 

It's kinda scary looking at Seattle do nothing, and even seem to be completely dragging their feet (Lynch has yet to be placed on retired/reserve list, a few guys haven't even been given RFA tenders yet...). I mean, we're likely to lose Sweezy and Okung, and I'm fine with losing Sweezy (don't think that Glowinski will be much of a drop off, if there is any), but I'm quite terrified of what having no left tackle is going to be like (and while Okung isn't a T1 LT, he's a solid T2 LT). Rumors are that they're interested in going after Donald Penn, and also that they're targeting Germain Ifedi with their first pick, so who knows.

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Don't think Lynch or Johnson are HoF bound, but Woodson and Manning are.

 

Dolphins gonna Dolphin.

 

Raiders spending big $$ for big upgrades.

 

It's kinda scary looking at Seattle do nothing, and even seem to be completely dragging their feet (Lynch has yet to be placed on retired/reserve list, a few guys haven't even been given RFA tenders yet...). I mean, we're likely to lose Sweezy and Okung, and I'm fine with losing Sweezy (don't think that Glowinski will be much of a drop off, if there is any), but I'm quite terrified of what having no left tackle is going to be like (and while Okung isn't a T1 LT, he's a solid T2 LT). Rumors are that they're interested in going after Donald Penn, and also that they're targeting Germain Ifedi with their first pick, so who knows.

I can see the argument for Lynch, but not for Johnson. The guy is a first ballot HoF imo, but i'll hear the argument. 

 

Penn would probably be an upgrade on Okung in that Wilson would at least get the same degree of protection over 16 games. 

 

Seattle doesn't really have anyone worth retaining tbh. Okung is a durability concern and will probably get overpaid. The rest of the line is expendable. 

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You may think that Sweezy and Okung aren't worth retaining, but when you look around the NFL and see a lot of crappy line play, and you look at the draft and there are rarely good lineman (especially left tackles), it's really scary to see that the options for protecting Wilson are Okung, some other team's cast off, or maybe a rookie. There's some thought that Seattle may look to move Gilliam to LT (reportedly were grooming him there before putting him in as the starting RT), but that's still very iffy to me.

 

Also, Frank Clark is down to 250-260 lbs, so he may be moving to SAM to replace Bruce.

 

Here's the case for Calvin not getting in: 43rd all-time career receptions, 22nd all-time in receiving TDs, 27th all-time receiving yards. He may have been hamstrung by poor QB play (and I should mind you that he played his first 2 years without Stafford, but thereafter they had a capable QB), but statistically he may just be the 22nd best. If TO didn't get in first-ballot, I don't see how CJ does. His career is similar to Brandon Marshall's and Vincent Jackson's. Are those guys first ballot HoF'rs? Tim Brown and Andre Reed took years. A quick Google search reveals the same thoughts across sports writers and former players. Some think he gets in, but not first-ballot, and others think he doesn't get in at all. 

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These numbers are just nuts. Marvin Jones around 8M? I need to see these details. 

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You may think that Sweezy and Okung aren't worth retaining, but when you look around the NFL and see a lot of crappy line play, and you look at the draft and there are rarely good lineman (especially left tackles), it's really scary to see that the options for protecting Wilson are Okung, some other team's cast off, or maybe a rookie. There's some thought that Seattle may look to move Gilliam to LT (reportedly were grooming him there before putting him in as the starting RT), but that's still very iffy to me.
 
Also, Frank Clark is down to 250-260 lbs, so he may be moving to SAM to replace Bruce.
 
Here's the case for Calvin not getting in: 43rd all-time career receptions, 22nd all-time in receiving TDs, 27th all-time receiving yards. He may have been hamstrung by poor QB play (and I should mind you that he played his first 2 years without Stafford, but thereafter they had a capable QB), but statistically he may just be the 22nd best. If TO didn't get in first-ballot, I don't see how CJ does. His career is similar to Brandon Marshall's and Vincent Jackson's. Are those guys first ballot HoF'rs? Tim Brown and Andre Reed took years. A quick Google search reveals the same thoughts across sports writers and former players. Some think he gets in, but not first-ballot, and others think he doesn't get in at all. 

Put those numbers into context. It was done in 9 years. Furthermore you ignore johnson being the first guy to break jerry rices record in single season receiving yards.

Seattle is just trying to find ways to get all its talent on the field tbh

Yea but ultimately what are they worth? In a league with shitty line play, sweezy is a shitty guard.

Okung is a good left tackle, but do you want to pay him all that money for him actually performing half the contract?

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Signings are insane

 

Damon Harrison goes from the Jets to Giants for 9 mil a yr and 24 guaranteed

 

Big Time Brock Osweiler goes from Denver to the Texans. Fuck You Horse Face (John Elway)

 

The Jets sign RB Matt Forte. 

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forte to jets, osweiler to texans 

 

edit: ninjad

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Forte.

 

"Want to win."

 

Signs with Jets.

 

Logic.

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not sure if mentioned but the falcons picked up alex mack

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Mitchell Schwartz to the Chiefs

 

Damon Harrison, Janoris Jenkins, and Oliver Fucking Vernon to the G-Men. I guess you can buy a defense lol. 

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You may think that Sweezy and Okung aren't worth retaining, but when you look around the NFL and see a lot of crappy line play, and you look at the draft and there are rarely good lineman (especially left tackles), it's really scary to see that the options for protecting Wilson are Okung, some other team's cast off, or maybe a rookie. There's some thought that Seattle may look to move Gilliam to LT (reportedly were grooming him there before putting him in as the starting RT), but that's still very iffy to me.
 
Also, Frank Clark is down to 250-260 lbs, so he may be moving to SAM to replace Bruce.
 
Here's the case for Calvin not getting in: 43rd all-time career receptions, 22nd all-time in receiving TDs, 27th all-time receiving yards. He may have been hamstrung by poor QB play (and I should mind you that he played his first 2 years without Stafford, but thereafter they had a capable QB), but statistically he may just be the 22nd best. If TO didn't get in first-ballot, I don't see how CJ does. His career is similar to Brandon Marshall's and Vincent Jackson's. Are those guys first ballot HoF'rs? Tim Brown and Andre Reed took years. A quick Google search reveals the same thoughts across sports writers and former players. Some think he gets in, but not first-ballot, and others think he doesn't get in at all. 

Put those numbers into context. It was done in 9 years. Furthermore you ignore johnson being the first guy to break jerry rices record in single season receiving yards.

Seattle is just trying to find ways to get all its talent on the field tbh

Yea but ultimately what are they worth? In a league with shitty line play, sweezy is a shitty guard.

Okung is a good left tackle, but do you want to pay him all that money for him actually performing half the contract?

 

 

You also see people saying that playing 9 years "disqualifies" HoF, as you lack the longevity that some see as necessary. Also, with that context, he played in an era of football that favors big passing numbers, and is behind guys who played in an earlier era of football.

 

As for Sweezy, I'm not too disappointed in losing him, but can you afford to a) lose 2 starters on what was widely regarded as a poor line, and 2) even with Okung's injury history, is it really smart to not slightly over-pay a guy you know and take a complete unknown? I would much rather keep Okung over Sweezy. Every day and thrice on Sunday. I can live with Glo at guard. What I can't live with is hoping that some other team that has no idea what it's doing overpays for the 2-3 passable options leaving the team to pray a decent left tackle finds its way down to 27. If they overpay for Okung, I can certainly live with that.

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You may think that Sweezy and Okung aren't worth retaining, but when you look around the NFL and see a lot of crappy line play, and you look at the draft and there are rarely good lineman (especially left tackles), it's really scary to see that the options for protecting Wilson are Okung, some other team's cast off, or maybe a rookie. There's some thought that Seattle may look to move Gilliam to LT (reportedly were grooming him there before putting him in as the starting RT), but that's still very iffy to me.
 
Also, Frank Clark is down to 250-260 lbs, so he may be moving to SAM to replace Bruce.
 
Here's the case for Calvin not getting in: 43rd all-time career receptions, 22nd all-time in receiving TDs, 27th all-time receiving yards. He may have been hamstrung by poor QB play (and I should mind you that he played his first 2 years without Stafford, but thereafter they had a capable QB), but statistically he may just be the 22nd best. If TO didn't get in first-ballot, I don't see how CJ does. His career is similar to Brandon Marshall's and Vincent Jackson's. Are those guys first ballot HoF'rs? Tim Brown and Andre Reed took years. A quick Google search reveals the same thoughts across sports writers and former players. Some think he gets in, but not first-ballot, and others think he doesn't get in at all. 

Put those numbers into context. It was done in 9 years. Furthermore you ignore johnson being the first guy to break jerry rices record in single season receiving yards.

Seattle is just trying to find ways to get all its talent on the field tbh

Yea but ultimately what are they worth? In a league with shitty line play, sweezy is a shitty guard.

Okung is a good left tackle, but do you want to pay him all that money for him actually performing half the contract?

 

 

You also see people saying that playing 9 years "disqualifies" HoF, as you lack the longevity that some see as necessary. Also, with that context, he played in an era of football that favors big passing numbers, and is behind guys who played in an earlier era of football.

 

As for Sweezy, I'm not too disappointed in losing him, but can you afford to a) lose 2 starters on what was widely regarded as a poor line, and 2) even with Okung's injury history, is it really smart to not slightly over-pay a guy you know and take a complete unknown? I would much rather keep Okung over Sweezy. Every day and thrice on Sunday. I can live with Glo at guard. What I can't live with is hoping that some other team that has no idea what it's doing overpays for the 2-3 passable options leaving the team to pray a decent left tackle finds its way down to 27. If they overpay for Okung, I can certainly live with that.

 

I don't think the longevity argument will be too much of a factor against him. 9 years is still triple the avg career. 

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teams need qb, been to a superbowl and nfc championship, dual threat and strong arm. He's best qb available
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teams need qb, been to a superbowl and nfc championship, dual threat and strong arm. He's best qb available

i mean the dual threat aspect of his game really stresses d coordinators and i think thats why teams value him

Still tho he is one of the worst qbs i have seen. Maybe ppl blame the talent around him but he was awful
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Yeah but it's a quarterback league at the end of the day

 

 

The majority of teams are mediocre or sub par with the quarterback they already have, if their choice is continue to be mediocre failures or gamble on Kap, they might as well gamble on cap as opposed to going off to another 7-9 season with the same QB. 

 

 

Sure, every team would draft a 1st/2nd/3rd pick QB instead of Colin and sit on him for a few years, if they had that option.  But a) they don't and b) the draft pool may not have those quarterbacks who'll succeed in the NFL.  

 

Also: has actually been to Superbowl is still has actually been to Superbowl.  He doesn't have zero credentials by any stretch of the imagination.  

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Yeah but it's a quarterback league at the end of the day

 

 

The majority of teams are mediocre or sub par with the quarterback they already have, if their choice is continue to be mediocre failures or gamble on Kap, they might as well gamble on cap as opposed to going off to another 7-9 season with the same QB. 

 

 

Sure, every team would draft a 1st/2nd/3rd pick QB instead of Colin and sit on him for a few years, if they had that option.  But a) they don't and b) the draft pool may not have those quarterbacks who'll succeed in the NFL.  

 

Also: has actually been to Superbowl is still has actually been to Superbowl.  He doesn't have zero credentials by any stretch of the imagination.  

I realize, but don't forget how loaded SF was on both sides of the ball 2-3 years ago. Almost every player on their defense was an all-pro as was most of the offense (goldson, whitner, brooks, smith, smith, boone, iupati, gore etc....). I could argue it was more the talent around him that made him look good then the other way around. 

 

I do think we are significantly underrating how much mobility stresses defenses and d-coordinators tho. Coaches do tend to think they can fix QBs with physical skill sets as well

 

Idt we are talking about a 7-9 team without a QB. Assuming no viable replacement, because if they have one they may be a 9-10 win team, they could be a 6 win or less team which could be a top 10 pick + multiple high comp picks coming their way next year when those picks are first tradeable. TLDR version: they'd have the spot an ammo to get a QB if they wanted. 

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IK they'll have the picks, but in the League today, how many of the quarterbacks are truly up to scratch?  Maybe half? 2/3rds?  There's no way that one draft year is going to fill the demand for quarterbacks, the talent is ruthlessly scoured every year.  In 2015 there were only two first round QB picks, then none until the 3rd round, that's 7 outta 250 people.  '14 had 1 first round, 2 second, 13 had 1 first 1 second.  

 

 

I was going to say if you go through them and look at the stats I'd bet maybe only half could even take Peyton's place behind the Bronco's defence.  But I looked at the stats and that's patently untrue.  Peyton was just so bad practically anyone could have.  The more you know. 

 

His signature still got players to do deals for unders though.  

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IK they'll have the picks, but in the League today, how many of the quarterbacks are truly up to scratch?  Maybe half? 2/3rds?  There's no way that one draft year is going to fill the demand for quarterbacks, the talent is ruthlessly scoured every year.  In 2015 there were only two first round QB picks, then none until the 3rd round, that's 7 outta 250 people.  '14 had 1 first round, 2 second, 13 had 1 first 1 second.  

 

 

I was going to say if you go through them and look at the stats I'd bet maybe only half could even take Peyton's place behind the Bronco's defence.  But I looked at the stats and that's patently untrue.  Peyton was just so bad practically anyone could have.  The more you know. 

 

His signature still got players to do deals for unders though.  

I feel like you are looking at this the wrong way. Kap is a known commodity. The truth is you probably arent a better team with him (better than whoever they have, but still). There is a small chance you can redeem him and maybe turn him into something, but ultimately it isn't something I'm willing to risk being a team stuck in the middle over. 

 

I'd rather suck for a year or two and potentially put myself in a position where I can get a QB early then be stuck in the middle and like Houston, either have to pray for a Brock Osweiler to fall into my lap and/or be a below average to average team until the talent base I worked so hard to assemble either erodes by the time i get a QB or the team fades into obscurity. 

 

14 had 3 quarterbacks go in the 1st (Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater) so idk  where you got that from. 13 may have been the worst class for talent in a long time overall and 15 had 2 very good QBs that are starting quality. You're right in that the talent is never gonna fill the demand, but why waste the resources on getting one that you know will likely do nothing for your chances of winning rather than set yourself up to either increase the talent on your team and/or get one should there be one. 

 

I agree Peyton was terrible, and you may have a point there, but the defense played at a level that will be hard to replicate. 

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Yea and the teams with the pick have that option.  Basically Dallas, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, have the option to do that, and are either going to or are gonna go to the quarterback pond.  From what I've read there's 3 potential mid-upper level QBs in this draft.   That leaves the Broncos, well, dead last.  

 

Will the Broncos do that?  Esp if those five pick 3 first round QBs?  Probs not, and considering that their defence is probably going to evaporate soonish after they go off contract, they'll sign Kaepernick to get results while they can, which is why all the media reports have been saying exactly that.  Added to the fact he's probably not literally awful if you put him in front of a not-49ers offence, then there's something there.  

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