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Francis J Underwood

The Official 2016-2017 NFL Season Thread

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fractal    2488

Raven cut Will Hill. 

 

GDI

 

Apparently he's facing potential suspension.

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Medb    773

Thats a shame, I liked Will Hill. But, great adds with Wallace and Weddle. I've loved Weddle, so it'll be awesome to see how he does.  Glad we got some speed at WR. With Wallace, Perriman (hopefully), and Steve Smith Sr. the WR corps actually looks like it might be a threat.

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Joe.    4932

That Jones deal was basically

 

1 year of Chandler Jones (7.9 mil)

for

Chris Long (2 mil)
2nd Round pick
Jon Cooper (2.3 mil)
Bennett (5 mil)

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That Jones deal was basically
 
1 year of Chandler Jones (7.9 mil)
for
Chris Long (2 mil)
2nd Round pick
Jon Cooper (2.3 mil)
Bennett (5 mil)

Kinda think the pats lost out there. Lets be honest 1-2 years of jones is more valuable than everything there. I give belichick all the credit in the world, but it will be hard to scheme this

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fractal    2488

That Jones deal was basically
 
1 year of Chandler Jones (7.9 mil)
for
Chris Long (2 mil)
2nd Round pick
Jon Cooper (2.3 mil)
Bennett (5 mil)

Kinda think the pats lost out there. Lets be honest 1-2 years of jones is more valuable than everything there. I give belichick all the credit in the world, but it will be hard to scheme this

Opinions seem to vary wildly. Some see Jones as an underachiever who should have produced more than he did given his snap count, some see him as All Pro caliber, most see Cooper as a garbage throw-in that is likely to give you absolutely nothing. Long has struggled the past 2 years, but Bennett is a great pick-up.

Seattle gonna roll in comp picks next year; expected to get a 3 & 4 in the inaugural season where you can trade em. Not sure the plan for the o-line. Either they're moving Gilliam to LT (where he was being groomed before inserted as starting RT), or they know of a decent veteran or two are gonna be getting cut soon that they plan to pick up. Could also just be thinking of taking a T at 26 regardless of who is there.

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fractal    2488
So depending on how the League looks at the contract, Okung could be a 3 or a 5-6. Seattle didn't even have an offer on the table for him, so they must know what they're doing. Clady could be cut, could trade for Joe Thomas, D'brickashaw Ferguson has also been mentioned as potentially being cut.

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That Jones deal was basically
 
1 year of Chandler Jones (7.9 mil)
for
Chris Long (2 mil)
2nd Round pick
Jon Cooper (2.3 mil)
Bennett (5 mil)

Kinda think the pats lost out there. Lets be honest 1-2 years of jones is more valuable than everything there. I give belichick all the credit in the world, but it will be hard to scheme this

Opinions seem to vary wildly. Some see Jones as an underachiever who should have produced more than he did given his snap count, some see him as All Pro caliber, most see Cooper as a garbage throw-in that is likely to give you absolutely nothing. Long has struggled the past 2 years, but Bennett is a great pick-up.

Seattle gonna roll in comp picks next year; expected to get a 3 & 4 in the inaugural season where you can trade em. Not sure the plan for the o-line. Either they're moving Gilliam to LT (where he was being groomed before inserted as starting RT), or they know of a decent veteran or two are gonna be getting cut soon that they plan to pick up. Could also just be thinking of taking a T at 26 regardless of who is there.

 

I mean there are a couple of good vets out there in Will Beatty for example. 

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So depending on how the League looks at the contract, Okung could be a 3 or a 5-6. Seattle didn't even have an offer on the table for him, so they must know what they're doing. Clady could be cut, could trade for Joe Thomas, D'brickashaw Ferguson has also been mentioned as potentially being cut.

Eh I feel like they will look for one through the draft. 

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Jazz    5328

I'm still butt-hurt about the Patriots's loss to the Broncos.

 

Hope the Black Unicorn has something left in the tank. Dude's hilarious.

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So depending on how the League looks at the contract, Okung could be a 3 or a 5-6. Seattle didn't even have an offer on the table for him, so they must know what they're doing. Clady could be cut, could trade for Joe Thomas, D'brickashaw Ferguson has also been mentioned as potentially being cut.

I dont think okung is anymore than a 4th likely a 5th or 6th. You have to account for cap inflation and comparative deals. 3rd is going to be jackson and vernon this yr in terms of money

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Angeles    213
Fucking Jeff Fisher insisting on Keenum to be the starter for 16-17 is atrocious. Could be a smokescreen to grab Wentz or whatever but ugh.

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Angeles    213
I wish they atleast went after RG3. That would've been hilarious and beneficial.

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Medb    773

Well, RG3's carreer is officially over.

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Well, RG3's carreer is officially over.

I mean typically yeah, but this new Browns regime is making quite a few good decisions imo. I always felt like the supporting cast around RG3 was just as much an issue as RG3, and feel like Cleveland is an upgrade. I think Ray Horton (he should be able to install a competent defense maximizing pieces they have) and Pep Hamilton are good supporting coaches and Jackson is a QB whisperer. The staff has a ton of good people on it imo and RG3 is still one of the better prospects coming out of college so I don't think that talent just disappeared. 

 

The real question is the draft. If they do this correctly, they can put some talent around RG3 and maybe revive his career. If they draft a QB, I wouldn't be shocked if both RG3 and the new QB get ruined. 

 

To elaborate:

 

RG3 was by far and away the best overall QB on the market including re-signings made. 

 

Raheem Moore is a cheap, but potentially high upside replacement to losing out on the more expensive Gipson. 

 

Letting Mack walk was fine given they drafted Cam Irving and Mack is 30+.

 

The only move I disagree with was letting Mitchell Schwartz walk, but the organization has never liked him despite his good play. 

 

 

Their needs are pass rusher (which may be a scheme issue that Horton will aid), ILBs, and S (whitner is aging), RG, RT. All of these are really strong positions in this draft (minus the o line, but they arent high value positions anyway). If they go Myles Jack at 2 and follow up with a guy like Darian Thompson or Keanu Neal at 32, most if not all of these issues should be solved and quickly at that. Having that 2nd first rounder and early picks in subsequent rounds can help turn the team around quickly if Hue Jacksons and Co. can get something out of RG3

 

Overall, the Browns didn't make any poor, desperation signings and opted for respectable ones instead while they rebuild. I think that if they can put a strong team around RG3, the Browns can compete at the very least. 

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fractal    2488

RG3 was not the best QB available. He has the highest upside, but was not the best NFL-level QB on the market. That was, and is, Fitzpatrick. The Browns can in no way compete with RG3 as the starter this year. He is at least 2 years away from being a competent QB. Many teams view him as shot, or a reclamation project at best. Here's a single article that explains exactly what is wrong with him: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-film-review--robert-griffin-iii-s-issues-214738329.html

 

5 wide open guys, and he turns it into an incompletion and QB hit. Also, he has a history of injury (2009 torn ACL, 2012 concussion, 2012 knee sprain, 2013 (playoffs) torn ACL, 2014 dislocated ankle, 2015 concussion). He doesn't protect himself when he runs, his joints aren't particularly strong, and he can't read a defense. At 100% health, he may be the most talented QB the league has ever seen, but he is rarely 100%, and he can't do simple QB things. You say a scheme that gets guys wide open and tells him where to go with the ball will help him? Well, I hate to break it to you, but that's what every passing game tries to do, and when he has 5 guys open and fucks it up for literally no reason at all, he has a serious issue. He doesn't need to command a Rodgers/Manning style offense. He can't even command a Kirk Cousins offense. Outside of Barnidge and maybe Gabriel, their offense doesn't exactly have what you'd call "weapons". There's no way the old read-option offense is going to work for them. He isn't sturdy enough.

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RG3 was not the best QB available. He has the highest upside, but was not the best NFL-level QB on the market. That was, and is, Fitzpatrick. The Browns can in no way compete with RG3 as the starter this year. He is at least 2 years away from being a competent QB. Many teams view him as shot, or a reclamation project at best. Here's a single article that explains exactly what is wrong with him: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/greg-cosell-s-film-review--robert-griffin-iii-s-issues-214738329.html

 

5 wide open guys, and he turns it into an incompletion and QB hit. Also, he has a history of injury (2009 torn ACL, 2012 concussion, 2012 knee sprain, 2013 (playoffs) torn ACL, 2014 dislocated ankle, 2015 concussion). He doesn't protect himself when he runs, his joints aren't particularly strong, and he can't read a defense. At 100% health, he may be the most talented QB the league has ever seen, but he is rarely 100%, and he can't do simple QB things. You say a scheme that gets guys wide open and tells him where to go with the ball will help him? Well, I hate to break it to you, but that's what every passing game tries to do, and when he has 5 guys open and fucks it up for literally no reason at all, he has a serious issue. He doesn't need to command a Rodgers/Manning style offense. He can't even command a Kirk Cousins offense. Outside of Barnidge and maybe Gabriel, their offense doesn't exactly have what you'd call "weapons". There's no way the old read-option offense is going to work for them. He isn't sturdy enough.

Upside, arm stength, and long term viability have to be factored in.  You can't just ignore them. By that stupidity, Manning is still a top QB when physically he can't be. 

 

Disagree with the Browns not being able to compete with RG3. Yes he has an injury history (so did stafford his first 2-3 years in the league). Yes he takes unnecessary risks (I buy that these can be coached and that he is willing to be coached as we saw on his, albeit, shitty attempts at sliding.). Again, I don't buy that he cannot read a defense. 

 

While I think Cossell is right in some of his evaluation, I don't agree with all of it. I don't think Griffin has poor mechanics otherwise he would struggle with accuracy (which from what I have seen isn't really an issue especially given that he can throw well on the run which requires good throwing mechanics). I do think that he gets into his drop to quickly and agree that this can cause him to come off his read too early. I also think part of that has to do with seeing a running lane/watching the rush rather than downfield because he didnt trust the protection in Washington (this also applies to the previous point.) In the last play Cossell highlights, RG3 went through Read 1 - Niles Paul, saw it wasn't open and noticed a wide open running lane and took the bait. He got caught. He obv wasn't going to go back to Niles Paul (no QB will ever go back to read 1 w.o going through 2, 3, 4 etc...). Given the type of play, I don't exactly fault him for after seeing it in real time (it is a one, maybe two read and backyard football type of play.) 

 

Cossell does nail that Griffin's internal clock is probably a little too quick, again probably due to the fact that he didnt trust his protection, Bradford has the same issue, which is why he checks it down so often. I think this can be fixed and timing the drop is a nuance issue that can be fixed based on system. 

 

Figuring out the defense pre-snap is something that the majority of QBs in the NFL don't do. Like you said, many coaches just implement a system to deal with that. 

 

I mean Josh Gordon is a thing (everyone seems to forget about him for obv reasons, but still), but yea Cleveland doesn't have a ton of weapons (with Gordon they prob have more offensive talent than the Giants did and they seemed to be fine offensively)

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fractal    2488
Gordon is still suspended and as far as anyone can tell, hasn't filed for reinstatement, so that's why he's never mentioned. I mentioned RG3 as having the highest ceiling in the league if healthy. Physical talent doesn't matter if you can't process things though. Right now, he's an athlete playing the QB position, and that's it.

Also, Cleveland competing means being at least the 3rd best team in the division, and they're quite a distant fourth. Do you know how tough it is to be competitive in the NFL? Seattle hasn't lost by more than 10 for a record 83 straight (ongoing) games. The second longest record is a tie at 25 games for NE (10-13) and GB (09-12). The Browns had 8 such losses last year. They have to stop getting their asses whipped before they can win games. Also, this isn't Madden, so even if Gordon was reinstated, it's not like he, Barnidge, etc are all gonna be 100% on the same page.

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Gordon is still suspended and as far as anyone can tell, hasn't filed for reinstatement, so that's why he's never mentioned. I mentioned RG3 as having the highest ceiling in the league if healthy. Physical talent doesn't matter if you can't process things though. Right now, he's an athlete playing the QB position, and that's it.

Also, Cleveland competing means being at least the 3rd best team in the division, and they're quite a distant fourth. Do you know how tough it is to be competitive in the NFL? Seattle hasn't lost by more than 10 for a record 83 straight (ongoing) games. The second longest record is a tie at 25 games for NE (10-13) and GB (09-12). The Browns had 8 such losses last year. They have to stop getting their asses whipped before they can win games. Also, this isn't Madden, so even if Gordon was reinstated, it's not like he, Barnidge, etc are all gonna be 100% on the same page.

He filed. http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/18364/nfl-decision-on-josh-gordon-reinstatement-will-be-made-when-appropriate Ithink there is a decision in the next week iirc. I don't agree that he is an athlete playing the position. He understands the position to a much higher degree than Kap who is literally a RB that can throw. He gets pocket movement. He gets progressions and working through them. He has a feel for the pocket and doesnt get rattled (which Kap clearly does and the stats back that). 

 

Wait Wait Wait. You can't define it by that. The other 3 teams in that division might be in the top 8 teams (Sea, Arizona, Car, NE, Cincy, Bal, Pitt, GB) in the league overall so putting Cleveland in that class is a bit of a stretch. If they can pull off what the Falcons, Jets, or Bills did this year ie a competitive team then it should be considered a massive step forward. 

 

Yes this isn't Madden, but Gordon will have a full offseason program and is obviously talented. I don't think he will have any harder of a time than any one else. If anything it is too his advantage because he will be learning the system at the same time and rate as everyone else except for maybe RG3 who is getting an early start by working out with House. 

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