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captainameowica

Battle City: Retro Formats Leader Board & Match Report Thread

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29 minutes ago, captainameowica said:

wait he keeps dustshoot in going second? :sandals::sandals::sandals:

That's not a terrible choice. The card just isnt dead a lot this format unless you hit late game and even then there is snipe. But to get hit with t1 3 games in a row without him using extra draw power to access it is just awful lol. 

I somehow think this format is much better if we honor banned dustshoot. Outside of not playing it immediately and waiting for the rota or such, it isn't a skill intensive card, but it significantly impacts the game. That's my 2cents from playing the format a few times. 

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Jazz    5332

Dustshoot is a big deal, but to say it takes no skill to decide what to put back and how to play around their hand isn't 100% true.

To counter it, like I said, you can run 2 RotA, but also edit your deck to make it less monster heavy and less tribute heavy. Make every card in your deck count, specifically the monsters. Filler like Cydra in a non-aggro deck is only going to make Shoot hurt more.

You can also play around it by keeping your hand below 4, especially if you go first.

Getting hit 3/3 games to open is unlikely. In the end though it's arguably no worse than having to deal with the Trinity in goat format.

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Plus the shoots in no way are what won me the games and I went 2nd twice, with a good build going first you should be able to make Dustshoot negligible. On a side note I have played probably like 60 matches maybe more with Jazz in both Troop Dupe and Goat and this gave me the impression that people from this site were stiff enough competition to where they didn't get their panties in a knot when they lose, but so far I've had 3 people bitch and complain.

Ps. Thanks Francis for giving away that I keep Dustshoot in when going second, good sportsmanship. Also if you want to play through shoot more efficiently maybe try asking me or Jazz to help you with your deck and even your plays.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jazz said:

Dustshoot is a big deal, but to say it takes no skill to decide what to put back and how to play around their hand isn't 100% true.

To counter it, like I said, you can run 2 RotA, but also edit your deck to make it less monster heavy and less tribute heavy. Make every card in your deck count, specifically the monsters. Filler like Cydra in a non-aggro deck is only going to make Shoot hurt more.

You can also play around it by keeping your hand below 4, especially if you go first.

Getting hit 3/3 games to open is unlikely. In the end though it's arguably no worse than having to deal with the Trinity in goat format.

Yea but we would ideally ban duo in that format (I'd ban pot too but thats debatable)

Deciding what to put back doesnt take a huge amount of skill. It's more like there is always the possibility you are bad and screw it up, but it's unlikely. 

Good players will just wait it out with the rota which i illustrated. 1/40 * 1/39 *1/38 etc... (no idea why I typed 1/8) chance you open with stratos  itself and holding dustshoot isnt a bad play to make sure you dont dustshoot into a rota. 

Cydra is actually one of the best cards for dealing with a t1 stratos. Being behind against an 1800 floater is a pain in the ass. Additionally with only a few traps that deal with attacks. A special summonable 2100 beat stick isn't easy to deal with. Outside of mirror/torrent. It's Brain + another card (mali, raiza, w/e) 

yea but you have to keep your hand at 2 which means committing 4 cards to board where they can be heavy'd torrential etc... 

PS: Sinsiter, it was unintentional. Sorry, but this is just for fun so really fuck off  I was literally just running something for fun and to test the format out a bit. Also I'm not saying that dustshoot won you the game, but to say that opening it 3x didn't provide immense help is a joke. My comments were more about the card in this format in general than our actual match. 

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@Francis J UnderwoodIf it's just for fun quit your bitching when you lose.

Also as promised here are some more lists for you guys to try out:

ACP 5th Gadget http://i.imgur.com/9tz9pTJ.png

My take on Six Samurai  http://i.imgur.com/towcTdT.png

A more evolved Baboon Beat http://i.imgur.com/nvFxGHz.png

My Dark Scorpion Toolbox http://i.imgur.com/0X67yZp.png (I was inspired by both a deck from Goat format and ReturnDAD era and thought it could work)

 

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2 minutes ago, *Sinister Serpent* said:

@Francis J UnderwoodIf it's just for fun quit your bitching when you lose.

Also as promised here are some more lists for you guys to try out:

ACP 5th Gadget http://i.imgur.com/9tz9pTJ.png

My take on Six Samurai  http://i.imgur.com/towcTdT.png

A more evolved Baboon Beat http://i.imgur.com/nvFxGHz.png

My Dark Scorpion Toolbox http://i.imgur.com/0X67yZp.png (I was inspired by both a deck from Goat format and ReturnDAD era and thought it could work)

 

Idc that I lost I'm out of it anyway. Im just saying I think the format would be better if dustshoot wasn't in it? Am I not allowed to discuss that? Sorry if I used getting hit with t1 3x in a row as an example of why it's degenerate and an inherently advantageous card to start out with. 

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I didn't say you couldn't discuss it....... that being said I hope you stick with the format within the week I think you will come around to seeing that Dustshoot is not really a big deal.

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1 minute ago, *Sinister Serpent* said:

I didn't say you couldn't discuss it....... that being said I hope you stick with the format within the week I think you will come around to seeing that Dustshoot is not really a big deal.

i mean I played it back in 07 and I'm obv sticking with it for whatever, but that doesn't really change my opinion on shoot being kind of a degenerate card. Is it impossible to come back from or play around? Obv not. If you're hand is good enough, you can deal with it. 

Is it huge advantage when played that can dictate a game? Obv otherwise everyone and their mother wouldn't main it in triplicate to get at it t1. 

My pont is I just think this format is much more skill intensive if that card gets honor banned. Dustshoot with raiza is like setting you back 2-3 turns since dustshoot can effectively rob you of t1 depending on the hand.

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Jazz    5332

Won 2-0 vs *Sinister Serpent* in Troop Dup, sorry for the shenanigans but it was fun for me ;)

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12 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Won 2-0 vs *Sinister Serpent* in Troop Dup, sorry for the shenanigans but it was fun for me ;)

It's fine gg's it was just such a wild swing of plays lol I was so happy when you committed only to have Mali make a surprise entrance for lethal.

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Jazz    5332
10 hours ago, *Sinister Serpent* said:

It's fine gg's it was just such a wild swing of plays lol I was so happy when you committed only to have Mali make a surprise entrance for lethal.

The only reason I did that Troop+Dup play was to go for milling a single Mali which was about a 45% chance. I was confident you had a bluff set since you hadn't set it the previous turn and I knew your draw for turn was Sangan. So I decided to take the 45% chance then and there rather than risk getting killed later being only at 600. I couldn't image a scenario where it would be safe for me to press or even attack your Sangan without going for the kill so I felt like I had no other choice.

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Jazz    5332

@Francis J Underwood I think good players should flip Shoot turn 1 almost every time. It's better to get the full hand information and yes while it leaves you vulnerable to a RotA you can still get good use out of it. RotA is only 2 cards in deck after all so opening one is fairly low odds. You're more likely to disrupt a d-draw or a very aggressive play that could hurt you. You also leave yourself vulnerable to someone who commits to the field to play around shoot in which case you will lose the game unless you can take advantage of it. Thats happened to me a lot though less so against HERO decks which keep large hands, but the simple fact is that a good deck will gain game position on you while you wait to be able to reactivate it.

Using Cydra to counter a turn 1 Stratos isn't that great either because it's so easy to respond to Cydra and take advantage of it being on the field. The best counter is your own Stratos or Brain Control or mali+meta/monarch. Even Trooper is slightly better.

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6 hours ago, Jazz said:

@Francis J Underwood I think good players should flip Shoot turn 1 almost every time. It's better to get the full hand information and yes while it leaves you vulnerable to a RotA you can still get good use out of it. RotA is only 2 cards in deck after all so opening one is fairly low odds. You're more likely to disrupt a d-draw or a very aggressive play that could hurt you. You also leave yourself vulnerable to someone who commits to the field to play around shoot in which case you will lose the game unless you can take advantage of it. Thats happened to me a lot though less so against HERO decks which keep large hands, but the simple fact is that a good deck will gain game position on you while you wait to be able to reactivate it.

Using Cydra to counter a turn 1 Stratos isn't that great either because it's so easy to respond to Cydra and take advantage of it being on the field. The best counter is your own Stratos or Brain Control or mali+meta/monarch. Even Trooper is slightly better.

Eh I disagree. I want to maximize what I get out of dustshoot. Leaving myself to get rekt by rota doesn't really further that. The d drraw argument isnt great because theres no reason why I couldnt just dustshoot after. Yes they could have a mali in grave now, but the chances of them opening mali d draw is somewhere in the 5-8% range which is calculated risk I'm fine with (not including rota for obv reasons). I'm fine with them dumping basically anything else off d draw as it wont hurt me in the sense of having an extra card to work with. Holding the dustshoot and letting your oppn start a push just to crush it midway with shoot also helps to stave off aggressive plays.

The worst thing that can really happen with holding a shoot is that your oppn does nothing with their turn, but that can be dealt with. 

Like I said you have to commit 4 cards to the board (assuming no stratos) to avoid t1 dustshoot. No cydra means 3 have to go to s/t (assuming im not missing any summon shenanigans). Assuming you don't have a dustshoot (again this is t1), you risk heavy just destroying you. If you have the t1 shoot or the chainable to do it, go for it. You're probably in a pretty good position regardless then. 

That's why Stratos is a problem this format. There aren't a ton of ideal answers to it and leaving it up is terrible for you. The most effective way to deal with it is the one that requires the least investment which means Trooper or your own Stratos or Cydra. Most of the scenarios you describe leave you open to getting whacked. You brain control and tribute leaves you open to the same thing except much worse since thats no longer an out for you making their push safer. Mali meta is fine (2-3 card combo since mali needs to hit field/gyard somehow and we are assuming early game but w/e), but that assumes they have no way to stop that at all or that you have the cards to stop a counter push from say them dropping a cydra to run over senshi. Assuming you don't get a way to access Stratos to counter t1, your next most likely option is Trooper which is great but a limited answer in terms of accessing it quickly. Outside of Trooper/Stratos/Cydra, you need 2-3 cards just to deal with Stratos. Those 3 let you deal with it using just 1. Yes it can get brain control and tributed, but so can every monster not named senshi or balter (which cydra is probably the most effective out to as a tangent). 

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Jazz    5332

On for troop dup games

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Jazz    5332

2-1 over Logic in Goat format

2-0 over Logic in Troop Dup format

 

Merchant is a god among men.

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Jazz    5332

Lost 2-1 to Skully, Troop Dup format

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Jazz    5332

Won 2-0 over *Sinister Serpent*, Troop Dup format

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