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Myth

Let's talk about the Alt-Right

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TonySK    618

To try and move the discussion away from jingoism and back to politics, I am curious about how the alt right sees a few things:

1) Our underfunded public education system

2) Our lack of unions and workers rights, especially compared to other countries in the western world (paid vacations, maternity leave, living wages)

 

 

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Myth    95
10 hours ago, TonySK said:

To try and move the discussion away from jingoism and back to politics, I am curious about how the alt right sees a few things:

1) Our underfunded public education system

2) Our lack of unions and workers rights, especially compared to other countries in the western world (paid vacations, maternity leave, living wages)

 

 

Whatever Trump says tbh. I don't mean that to sound dismissive. I mean that as he is the only person in the last 20 years who has stood for what we believe. The Alt-Right is a rejection of establishment conservatism & liberalism.  To understand what it means to reject the establishment, you don't have to look any farther than Bernie fucking Sanders. Look what he accomplished, did, and created? I can post memes and laugh about his failures, but he has rallied an entire group of people against the DNC and the RNC, the same way Trump has. They aren't 100% different. Obv' Alt-right hates Bernie bc' its made up of conservatives, libertarians, moderates, white nationalists, nationalists, etc. It's a very, very diverse group of people, which makes pinning down its political ideology difficult.

People like Milo have gotten popular for destroying SJW's. I'm gonna' insult my boy and say that it's not hard. At all. Ben Shapiro built his career on doing it, many popular youtubers do it every day, and picking on SJW's is like making fun of a one handed baseball player when you all have two arms.

Normally you just nod and go ' go him ' and treat that guy as best and fairly as possible if he's not asking for special treatment. The problem comes when people in the stands start yelling "THIS ISNT FAIR, ITS RIGGED, HE DIDNT AGREE TO THIS" when that same man chose to play on the same field as those with two arms. Where I would defend the man for having self pride and determination to do well despite his limitation, the opposite side would tell me that it's my/our fault for not catering to his needs, creating new rules, tolerance, and wanting more people like him into our game. It works well on a private sector to say "hey, no, they're not as good as this guy. he does well with one arm. why are you screaming at us? Go away" but once it's made known by everyone and people get offended bc' they see a bunch of two armed people playing baseball against a one armed man the issue becomes a frenzy, even though my side just wanted to play fucking baseball with someone trying their best. We'll hold his bags for him and help him when he asks, but if he can do it himself, we leave him alone. He's got it, he doesn't need us coddling him.

 

The trans bathroom issue especially bothers me. My best friend growing up identifies as trans, to this day, at 28 years old. She never wanted her issues thrown into media because she never wanted the attention. She thinks SJW's are horrible, they draw attention to her constantly when all she wanted to do was go to the fucking bathroom where she felt she could. No one noticed, no one fucking cared. It only suddenly became a thing, when, guess who got a hold of it and decided now that gay marriage is legal they need to rally behind another 'oppressed group'. I would say the VAST majority of the alt-right don't give a fuck about what you identify as. It's a non issue. . Anyway, I'm tired and starting to feel like this is a waste of time, I'll end with this;

I've heard the alt-right described as "pissed off moderates who hate liberals and conservatives equally with a similar stance on foreign policy." that about sums it up. Thus Trump's last 5 polls beating Hillary.  People who grew up liberal and had their eyes opened. You get some awful people, folks, I won't lie. Redpill types, white racists, etc. But, on the far left, you get communists and anarachists. It's not so great on either side if you take it too serious. This was meant to be a friendly conversation, not for everyone to get so fucking pissed off.

Also, one of my favorite quotes. From Ben Shapiro of all people

"White privilege is a way to silence anybody who is not of color. That is what white privilege is. It's just a leftist bullshit term meant to silence anyone who is not of color. It means 'shut up' because you are not of a minority group, a privileged minority group in the leftist space. It is reversed racism of the highest order. You're basically saying to white people, who aren't racist, can't find any proof of their racism, that they must be racist, because they're white. That is called racism. If you are accusing somebody of something, simply because of the color of their skin, without any evidence, that's called racism."
 

And ofc bae 8:20 especially. Tear it the fuck down.

 

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How do you write that much so confidently while saying absolutely nothing at the same time I'm honestly impressed. Also amazing that you'll post that quote  about white privilege and in the same breath admit white supremacists are part of the alt right group 

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Fullerene60    381
9 hours ago, Myth said:

Whatever Trump says tbh. I don't mean that to sound dismissive. I mean that as he is the only person in the last 20 years who has stood for what we believe. The Alt-Right is a rejection of establishment conservatism & liberalism.

I'm sorry, but do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement?

 

 

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+rei+    34627

In what world is your "alt-right" view moderate in any way?

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»Noelle    5845

well it depends where you put your overton window at. for example, internationally, bernie sanders would be considered a centrist. however, because the U.S overton window is shifted to the right, he's considered a leftist here.

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+rei+    34627

Bernie wouldn't be a centrist anywhere else, he's firmly in the left wing camp pretty much anywhere 

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»Noelle    5845

disagreed. you'd be surprised how far to the right being in favor of macro-economic capitalism pushes you (as opposed to micro-stuff like the Special Economic Zones in North Korea only slightly pushing them to the right while still overall being a far-left country.) It's being a social democrat reformist that would wind him up as a centrist though.

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+rei+    34627

I.. .uh, what

 

macro-economic capitalism can be a centre or left wing stance, and every other one of bernie's stances is pretty unambiguously left wing (very much influenced by the nordic left) 

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»Noelle    5845

left-right is economic views and up-down is social views (and views of how the state ought to function,) though. So stuff like gay marriage etc doesn't really affect left-right. again, within the overton window of the U.S (and maybe Canada where you're at) you'd be perfectly correct*, but overall, aggregating internationally, it isn't really viewed like that

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+rei+    34627

that's... uh, not the case. Left and Right were initially metrics based on France, with right focusing more on "order" and conservatism and left focusing on "movement" and generally liberal/freedoms. If anything it'd be the opposite to what you described with social issues being left/right 

 

Of course on a few of those charts that have become trendy these days that might literally define the access, but that's not what right and left wing mean. Of course they're broad generalizations anyway, but you're off base with their definition anyway 

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+rei+    34627

Fair enough - when discussing "left and right" almost no one is using the compass (a product of a 2007 web site) vs the spectrum which has been referred to since the 1700s.

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Myth    95
On 5/23/2016 at 8:00 AM, Social Justice Black Mage said:

How do you write that much so confidently while saying absolutely nothing at the same time I'm honestly impressed. Also amazing that you'll post that quote  about white privilege and in the same breath admit white supremacists are part of the alt right group 

White supremacy =/= white nationalism. I don't care for either, personally, but they're not the same. I care for American Nationalism or European Nationalism, not white nationalism or supremacy. I'll admit there are a ton of racists and bigots who identify as both of those, but as I've said before in this thread that they are denounced and shunned by the majority of people who identify as such. Just like the logic the left is using about Muslim's and radical islam. Would you say Nationalism is worse than radical islam? There's a lot of questions I have for people that I've neglected to ask, and the following are a few. 

 

My personal life and my closest friends and family would make support white supremacy, frankly, literally hypocritical and misguided. How do you feel about Japan? India? Jordan? I've had this conversation a lot bc' people always seem to want to throw Nationalists and white supremacists into the same group, but never seem to think about a lot of the rest of the world, especially Asia. Do you find Japanese people racist for not wanting to bring in refugees, for putting an emphasis on their culture, for looking down on interracial breeding, etc? I know I personally would about the interracial breeding thing, but I've had circular logic about this issue used against me so I'd like to hear your opinion on the matter, and further more find their love for their culture and wanting to keep it the way it is very conservative, not racist or intolerant. 


Furtheremore, how many people does the population of Japan and India make? India -  1,326,801,576  Japan -  126,348,813  so roughly 1.5 billion people exist in a culture that promotes what would be considered 'white nationalism' by today's standards, and this is without talking about other countries, as I'm sure the number will be much larger.

 

Also, for anyone who fucking cares, this just happened ;

Milo was forced to pay thousands more for security to have his discussion at Depaul University. The security guards sat back and did nothing as BML stormed the stage with whistles, threatened, and even assaulted Milo.Personally love the black power hand wave in the beginning of the video by the protester in the suit. Fuck these people. Say what you want about the man, but this was wrong. And the support from the right to the alt-right just grew that much more today. You can not bully people into silence, and you can not force another person to adhere to your beliefs by simply shouting over them, and even hitting him. After this incident Milo and hundreds of his watchers stormed the principals office for an explanation as to why the security he was FORCED to hire did ABSOLUTELY nothing about this shit, and no one would talk to him, nothing happened. Why didn't the people who came to see Milo and got on stage to try and diffuse take his mic away? Why didn't they fight back later in the hallway when people slapped their hats off their heads? (Which is actually assault, but I digress) because any action taken by a Trump supporter vs a BLM protester is automatically spinned by the media as an attack against black people. There is nothing Milo or any of his supporters could do but let it happen, as personnel hired for this refused to do their jobs (Paid off? Idk, possible. I'm not Alex Jones. I don't care for conspiracy theories) and so free speech was once again, silenced, by hate.

 

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Myth    95

This shit makes me fucking sick.

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Dank Memeston    1716
On 5/23/2016 at 0:55 PM, Fullerene60 said:

I'm sorry, but do you not see the hypocrisy in this statement?

 

 

Since Myth doesn't want to answer and I am unintelligent or cannot comprehend what the meaning of the first paragraph was in the first place I cannot find hypocrisy in this. What is it?

 

Also, Myth what point are you trying to bring up about these other nations? We/you all are mainly talking about the US, a little bit about Europe and I assume Canada if it ever brought up. What do these nations have to do with arguments on our soil? I see no reason to bring them up other than that they are a thing that everyone should already know about if they see FB/the news, in regards to India, or read manga/watch anime, in regards to Japan.

 

Edit: I didn't say how I feel about them. I guess that there are equal amounts of disdain and sadness but like I said above this is not my fight. Surely, if I wanted it to it would be my fight (I would not consider this fight mine either and I am an ignorant and inept fuck) but personally our own is more important for the moment.

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Myth    95

I didn't understand what he meant so I didn't respond. As for bringing up Japan and India, he brought up nationalism, and I used two of the most conservative and isolationist countries on earth to try and draw a parallel. I like to watch SJW's squirm under this question. It's amazing, just you wait.

 

As for what they have to do with America, if we're talking about Canada, the majority of leftists want us to be just like Canada. It's a fair comparison and cirtique is needed. We're talking about EVERYTHING here, I wanted to raise a decent discussion and aside from the name calling I think I did just that on a site where maybe 10 people comment outside of card games. 

@rei, It's moderate bc' we don't care who you fuck, what gender you identify as, what God you worship, or how you express yourself.It doesn't matter. Our leader is an outspoken faggot who talks about taking more 'black dick than the kardashians'. We're socially liberal as you can be. Just not very nice about it. Then again, I doubt you have ever heard him speak, or watched him. He'd rip you apart, like he does any liberal in front of him. We have the best debaters, folks. The best. Everyone tells me they are the best, so it must be true. I tell you, we are gonna do great things for debate. How's that .77 dollar going over in Cuckanadia? If Trump wins we won't bail you out. 

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Myth    95

Trump can't win a debate. Trump can't win a single state. Trump can't win a primary. Trump could never be the republican candidate. Trump could never win the election. Says increasingly nervous man for the 32nd time. Heads up @rei. Canada should think about building a wall or making its vias's that much harder to attain. You're gonna get a huge influx of liberal cucks coming once Trump claims the throne.Difference between your country and mine is that we dont have the great wall of America to seprate us from the 'evil brown people.' love watching you assholes try and compare us to you. We protect you. You would be nothing without us. your hipster faggot prime minister is hilarious. "ITS CURRENT DAY" fucking kek.

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+Sophocles    3067

But Japan regularily gets flak from the UN for having an immense problem with racism. They've even specifically stated that the xenophobic speeches by some politicians and activist groups are part of what's causing problem.

I don't know where you get the idea that Asia doesn't get called out on its racism and nationalism. The only reason you'd see less of it is because western news orgs are going to pay less attention to those stories than anything in their own region + the fact that there is barely debate about discrimination in these countries, activists are either repressed or ignored or somewhere in between.

I don't think the West can necessarily claim superiority over Asia in this regard. I don't know if the treatment of native communities in Canada is better than that of Japanese minorities like the Okinawans. But I guarantee that their position has a far better chance of improving because of it being decried in public space and getting attention rather than ignoring it.

In summary, your perceived inconsistency by the left regarding nationalism in the Far East is bogus. News orgs and intellectuals that you would place under any of "leftist" "mainstream" or "SJW" consider the rising nationalism in the region a worrisome problem and a threat to peace in the region. The rise in military tensions in the South-east China sea is also partially attributed to increasing nationalism. (Don't get me started on the 2012 chinese riots that caused hundreds of millions in damages that are also attributed to nationalist and xenophobic speeches by analysts)

Just two examples browsing the front page of the Guardian every day or so: (both published last week)

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/14/china-japan-east-asia-europe-old-antagonisms

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/23/no-muslims-allowed-how-nationalism-is-rising-in-aung-san-suu-kyis-myanmar

 

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+Sophocles    3067
1 hour ago, Myth said:

I wanted to raise a decent discussion and aside from the name calling I think I did just that on a site where maybe 10 people comment outside of card games.

<snip>

How's that .77 dollar going over in Cuckanadia? If Trump wins we won't bail you out. 

rofl

your lack of self-awareness is the redeeming part of this thread

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ZXtheD    272

The Alt-Right was going to grow regardless of what BLM does, simply because whites view their power, safety, and influence as threatened. You see the rise of the far right and white nationalism due to changing demographics all over the world, even if the changes are miniscule. You say most of the alt-right and Donald Trump supporters aren't bigots, but the only real thing that unify them are issues regarding race and different ethnic groups of people-from immigration and Islamic extremism to police brutality, racial issues are all you really care about, and economic issues are an afterthought. Yes you have socialists and capitalists, gay marriage supporters and traditional marriage supporters under the same tent, but that doesn't make you inclusive when ALL OF YOU refer to Muslims as a scourge, or ALL black people as violent animals, or whatever else. I've learned this watching right-wing libertarian race realists commending nordic europe for keeping it's racial purity, or right-wingers having hard-ons for Putin sticking it to Obama, that issues regarding race on your side transcend any other political differences you have.

Lastly, because of this rise of the far right-wing, this will get violent. As I said before, these people don't understand anything but bloodshed and WILL use it if given the chance, and they will enact their genocidal ideations on different groups of people. If these people actually do what they set out to do across the world, they'll have to be killed, not out of having different viewpoints, but out of self-defense and preventing them from setting the entire world on fire. Are you sure you want to be on their side if or when this happens?

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Myth    95
1 hour ago, ZXtheD said:

The Alt-Right was going to grow regardless of what BLM does, simply because whites view their power, safety, and influence as threatened. You see the rise of the far right and white nationalism due to changing demographics all over the world, even if the changes are miniscule. You say most of the alt-right and Donald Trump supporters aren't bigots, but the only real thing that unify them are issues regarding race and different ethnic groups of people-from immigration and Islamic extremism to police brutality, racial issues are all you really care about, and economic issues are an afterthought. Yes you have socialists and capitalists, gay marriage supporters and traditional marriage supporters under the same tent, but that doesn't make you inclusive when ALL OF YOU refer to Muslims as a scourge, or ALL black people as violent animals, or whatever else. I've learned this watching right-wing libertarian race realists commending nordic europe for keeping it's racial purity, or right-wingers having hard-ons for Putin sticking it to Obama, that issues regarding race on your side transcend any other political differences you have.

Lastly, because of this rise of the far right-wing, this will get violent. As I said before, these people don't understand anything but bloodshed and WILL use it if given the chance, and they will enact their genocidal ideations on different groups of people. If these people actually do what they set out to do across the world, they'll have to be killed, not out of having different viewpoints, but out of self-defense and preventing them from setting the entire world on fire. Are you sure you want to be on their side if or when this happens?

This isn't the time of the crusades. We're a loud but small group of people. No one is going to come kill us, are you fucking mental? And as 'far as the right wing getting violent' it's already fucking violent. There are people in Comrade Sanders and BLM's camp assaulting cops, supporters, blocking ambulances, and destroying freedom of speech.

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ZXtheD    272

When more of you get into governments across the globe, you'll start seeing it. Trump is only the first but he won't be the last. I've seen what all of you talk about, and if more people who think like you get into government this could get really bad, and seeing how the far right seems to be gaining ground, especially here, it's very possible. For some reason you seem to think the beliefs on the alt-right are harmless. Also you didn't respond the the first part of my post.

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Myth    95

The part where you said us whites view our safety? How do you even know I'm white? When have I ever said that? Maybe I'm cuban or vietnamese.  Secondly, man, if our skin color was the thing that united Trump supporters then all white people would be voting for him in such numbers he'd be elected grand master of the universe. Trump supporters are a wide demographic of people, not just middle aged white men working blue collar jobs, not just racists, and not just vets. Believe it or not a lot of Americans love this country, and the man saying "us first" appeals to them more than anything. Furhermore, there a lot of people who hate the establishment, and want it destroyed. Do you really think Bernie would have gotten so far only offering free shit? Trump when he wins will be regarded as a president under a terrible time due to our impending student loan bubble bursting and our economy being crippled, again, due to democrats, and he may very well 'file bankruptcy' on our country and negotiate with other countries to settle our debts to pennies on the dollar, and that will hurt our economy, more so than canada is going through. But, afterwards, we can be debt free, jobs can come back.We can go through a stage where we can prosper again. Because, at the rate its going under the Obama admin, assuming Clinton Wins, our debt will continue to climb, we'll keep getting raped by china and the rest of the world. And unlike Trump Hillary will go to war because she is lobbied so. Trump is so anti war its hilarious hes a republican.

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